New tape

[46zilzal]

Audio tape purported to be Bin Laden says a new attack has been planned: Some of the text.
"The new operations of al-Qaida has not happened not because we could not penetrate the security measures. It is being prepared and you'll see it in your homeland very soon," the voice attributed to bin Laden said, apparently addressing Americans.

But the voice on the tape also offered Americans a truce: "We do not mind establishing a long-term truce between us and you."
"This message is about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and how to end those wars," it began.

"It was not my intention to talk to you about this, because those wars are definitely going our way.

"But what triggered my desire to talk to you is the continuous deliberate misinformation given by your President [George] Bush, when it comes to polls made in your home country which reveal that the majority of your people are willing to withdraw US forces from Iraq.

"We know that the majority of your people want this war to end and polls show the Americans don't want to fight the Muslims on Muslim land, nor do they want Muslims to fight them on their (US) land.

"But Bush does not want this and claims that it's better to fight his enemies on their land rather than on American land.

"Bush tried to ignore the polls that demanded that he end the war in Iraq.

"We are getting increasingly stronger while your situation is getting from bad to worse," he told the US, referring to poor US troop morale and the huge economic losses inflicted by the war.

"The war in Iraq is raging and the operations in Afghanistan are increasing."

[GaryG]

So, what is your point? Do you want to negotiate with this maniac? This sounds like the typical double talk from Al Jazeera.

[Bobby]

France ups the ante. Defends its right to use a nuclear weapon . . .against a terrorist state.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060119/wl_nm/nuclear_arms_france_dc_2

[46zilzal]

no point other than he is rambling again

[boxcar]

This latest message's contents and tone (if it's authentic) are very, very different from the previous ones. It sounds to me UBL is speaking from the position of weakness, rather than strength. Could it be that the U.S. of A is winning this war? Oh no, of course not. I keep forgetting what the lib naysaers like Dean and his ilk keep saying.

Boxcar

[kenwoodallpromos]

Are you sure the tape was not an old one of Hitler when we and the Ruskies were at the Berlin city limits? "Things are going our way: (You just killed our #1 bombmaker!)" LOL! :lol: :jump:

[Steve 'StatMan']

The main reason people seem to think we're not winning the war in Iraq and Afganistan is that they continue to see violence popping up from nowhere, and therefore assume that because there is still violence of any kind, we must be be losing.

I reflected on this last night. Seems to me the biggest reason why the terrorist insurgents in Iraq hang on, and why Taliban and Al Quida remnants occasionally pop up in Afganistan and boardering Pakistan, is they've pretty much gone under ground, hiding in the caves, basements, mountains. They're pretty much like cockroaches hiding in walls, with automatic weapons and explosives.

As long as angry people with motives hide in the shadows, basements, caves, and among the innocent, then nothing is 100% stoppable without destroying all the shadows, basements, caves, and harming the innocent they hide behind/within. But just because they are not 100% stopable certainly doesn't mean we should just give up everywhere, and let them come out of the woodwork and become dominant wherever they are left unchecked, gaining power and giving them the ability to grow rampantly in the open.

Like the war on drugs, gangs, organized crime, and lone-ranger domestic threats a la the Uni-Bombers, 100% victory hasn't been reached and likely never will be, yet our cities and our country is certainly liveable. Not everywhere is safe, enjoyable and pleasant, of course, but overall they are livable.

Perhaps the best anyone can do with vs. a motivated opponent, short of a '1984 styled' monitored environment, or total destruction of the guilty and the innocent around them, is to always force these elements to live forever in the shadows, caves, basements and the innocent. Make them decide whether they want to continue to live like wolf packs and cockroaches the rest of their lives, and perhaps even their children and grandchildren's lives, with no real future, and purpose in life other than to be human version of 'The Plague' to the rest of us for as long as they unfortuntely choose to or until caught, captured and 'handled' (jailed or killed in action). We may have no choice but to live with it and deal with it, wipe out the infestations we can find when they pop up, and make their lives they choose to live behind the walls, in caves and basements as miserable as possible. Cockroaches, they say, have likely been around forever. The rat population, controlled, but doesn't seem stopable. Yet we'll live in our cities and homes just fine. We're in control, despite the sicknesses the vermin bring.

Bin Laden and his ilk have some isolated evil accomplishements, and if we're not completely careful, may have a few more now and then. But they will never have their complete victory unless we actually give it to them. When they want to give up and work and live together with everyone, then they can come out and join us again. Until that happens, things won't be perfect, and really suck now and then, but that's the new world we live in.

[twindouble]

So, what is your point? Do you want to negotiate with this maniac? This sounds like the typical double talk from Al Jazeera.

The left wing liberials are must jumping for joy knowing Ben Laden supports their efforts to distroy America by surrendering. That's the only important message I get out of the tape. Other than that we won't stop hunting those skum sucking low lifes down.


T.D.

[46zilzal]

The left wing liberials are must jumping for joy knowing Ben Laden supports their efforts to destroy America by surrendering. That's the only important message I get out of the tape.

my HOW original

[twindouble]

my HOW original

If you think any snide remark will have a crushing blow to my ego or thoughts, your sadly mistaken. Grow up!



T.D.

[JustRalph]

Box is right. Sounds like a weak message to me. He is actually discussing a truce.......because we are winning! His group is growing weary of ducking missiles and snipers and assasins in the night.

[lsbets]

Box is right. Sounds like a weak message to me. He is actually discussing a truce.......because we are winning! His group is growing weary of ducking missiles and snipers and assasins in the night.

If indeed it is Bin Laden, the message is not the bold pronouncements he usually makes, but is as Boscar said, one of weakness. But to underestimate their determination because of their weakness would be a mistake.

[Snag]

A couple of thoughts came to mind when hearing and reading about this tape.

1. How stupid for BL to say he is going to hit the US in the near future but he wants a long term truce in Iraq and Afgan. Does this not support Bushs' use of the NSA in the US to be prepared? I don't know enough to say it's legal.... I just care that he is doing something.

2. Also, doesn't this support the administrations position that Iraq was supporting and harboring Al Quida all along? Why else would BL want a truce in Iraq if he isn't getting hurt there and feels that he is losing something?

[so.cal.fan]

"Box is right. Sounds like a weak message to me. He is actually discussing a truce.......because we are winning! His group is growing weary of ducking missiles and snipers and assasins in the night"

Maybe, maybe not, JR and Box....
Could be he is trying to dupe the world, into the same old losing pacifist position that has cost millions of lives in the past century.
Osama is setting a trap. I pray sensible leaders will not fall for it.
These people do not know the meaning of fair play......many in the U.S. are naive, they believe if we are nice to them they will be nice to us.
Bullshit! If we are nice to them, they will think we are stupid and deserve to die, they will be happy to cut our heads off.....slowly.
Remember what you are dealing with here. :(

[NoDayJob]

;) Ya wanna get rid of Bin Laden? Give the contract to Barger, Palamino and Rubio of the Oakland chapter of the Hell's Angels. Two weeks and it'll be a done deal. And there'd be no charge, either. ;)

[toetoe]

I guess it's "newsworthy," but I need to hear not one word from or about this freak.

We're fools to negotiate with pieces of ... work like him. We'd also be fools not to take him seriously. Now, if he somehow crushed us and became our overlord, THEN we might cut our losses and surrender, but that's a huge IF and we'll burn that bridge when we get to it. In other words, only if we were Japan to his Allies, ya know? But this "Why do they hate us so?" crap, spoken while wringing the hands, is poison and a huge waste of time and effort. I'm all for letting some folks wonder why WE hate THEM.

[lsbets]

I'm all for letting some folks wonder why WE hate THEM.

I couldn't agree more. Scott McClellan had a great line today about the truce with Bin Laden:

"We do not negotiate with terrorists, we put them out of business."

I hope that is the goal for all of us, whether we agree or disagree on the methods employed, we should all want the same result in the end.

[JustRalph]

"Bullshit!"

I just love it when you talk dirty! ;)

[Suff]

Sounds like a weak message to me. t.

The news I am getting is that it is 6 months old. True enough, when your enemy uses the word Truce..............he's tired and beat. I have also heard that Al Queda support within Iraq is weakening. It could be propaganda but i also heard insurgents have taken up against the Supporters of Bin Laden in Iraq.

With that said.... We talked about the picture the NY Times printed with the incorrect caption. I took the point that the photo was at best , misleading.

In the same vien, this message from UBL was an audio clip. Yet every news staion I have seen is playing a File clip of UBL speaking and playing the Audio tape simaltanously as if he issued a Video message , and/or the message is current.

They also play file tape of Terrorist training camps while they play the message and discuss its impact. So to coerce the viewer with visuals is not uncommon. I disagree with it no matter where this method of reporting is used.

[Secretariat]

The left wing liberials are must jumping for joy knowing Ben Laden supports their efforts to distroy America by surrendering. That's the only important message I get out of the tape. Other than that we won't stop hunting those skum sucking low lifes down.


T.D.

No left wing liberal jumping for joy here. Bin Laden is the enemy. We should have had him 4 years ago. He's still free. Instead, we now have Iraq.

[twindouble]

No left wing liberal jumping for joy here. Bin Laden is the enemy. We should have had him 4 years ago. He's still free. Instead, we now have Iraq.

Well I think those that have been against the war attempting to paint this president as another Hitler, terrorist and war monger gone wild, have much to think about after what Ben Laden had to say. That or they just don't have the brains to put it together.


T.D.

[GeTydOn]

Why can we find cows infected with mad cow but we can't find this Osama clown?

[twindouble]

Why can we find cows infected with mad cow but we can't find this Osama clown?

Well if you had every branch of our government looking to kill you and you had many others willing to hide and support you, I'd say you would very tough to find as well but you wouldn't be talking to me now. :lol:

[Steve 'StatMan']

Well if you had every branch of our government looking to kill you and you had many others willing to hide and support you, I'd say you would very tough to find as well but you wouldn't be talking to me now. :lol: Very Good!

As for the cows, I believe all have an ID number tag through their ears, and the transactions and sales are likely tracked - I think that's how they found the one from Canada sold to the U.S. I think they also tag and the offspring and they might keep records on which offspring came from which cow. Since the cows usually only leave the farms/ranch if they are sold to another, or to slaughter, they're likely traceable to the farm they should be on.

At least that's how I understand it, I could be wrong.

Now if only we could send a box tracked by an IBM package to OBL. Maybe we'd have a better chance. ("How did you know we were lost?","The boxes said so."... "Maybe the boxes should drive")

[Bobby]

Remember those guys that turned in SAdaams two sons? $25 million richer for it. Where are they? I bet there in the US, living wherever they want. Got income in the hundreds of thousands. Probably interest and dividends. Living the high life. And no one will turn in Osama?

[rastajenk]

Until I see video that can be accurately dated, like holding a current Time magazine or something, I'll believe that he's been dead and gone for some time. Audio tapes repeating Michael Moore's talking points leave me unimpressed. He croaked in a military engagement, or an earthquake, or by disease, or by any other means. However it happened, his toadies couldn't exactly call the local coroner to take care of the situation. They can't say or do anything that would blow their own cover (especially if he's been in Iran, as has been reported). So they keep putting out these cryptic tapes every once in a while to bolster the morale of the true believers, and to keep Washington guessing. That's my theory, I'm sticking to it till proven wrong.

[toetoe]

Not to wish anyone harm, but is it possible Michael Moore choked on a chicken bone and died, coming to us since, only on tape? :jump:

[46zilzal]

Mr. Moore is alive and well and about to release a show in the Fall about HMO's called "sicko."

[boxcar]

No left wing liberal jumping for joy here. Bin Laden is the enemy. We should have had him 4 years ago. He's still free. Instead, we now have Iraq.

Er...'scuse me, we should have had UBL farther back than that! Do you remember a prez by the name of Bill Clinton? Does the name ring any bells?

Boxcar

Be a Liberal! Rewrite the Past. Lie about the Present. And offer no hope for the Future.

[ljb]

Here is another liberal who is not jumping for joy. I feel anger that our government could have had this dude more then once in years past. The current administration said they would go after him and any country that harbors him. Yet he continues to flaunt us from his hideout in Afghanistan/Pakistan. Afghanistan we pounded, but for some reason we mistook Iraq for Pakistan. ???

[kenwoodallpromos]

Bush is a war monger, but not really wild yet!LOL!
Neil Cavuto is starting to ask how ALQ gets through to deliver tapes safely to Allied Media and why Allied Media's Aljazzya is not monitored.

[boxcar]

Here is another liberal who is not jumping for joy. I feel anger that our government could have had this dude more then once in years past. The current administration said they would go after him and any country that harbors him. Yet he continues to flaunt us from his hideout in Afghanistan/Pakistan. Afghanistan we pounded, but for some reason we mistook Iraq for Pakistan. ???

Why don't you drop a thank you note to Bill Clinton for refusing to take delivery of UBL when he had the golden opportunity? Perhaps 911 would never have happened. Perhaps our invasion of Afghanistan wouldn't have been necessary. And most certaintly we wouldn't be seeing UBL flaunting himself at us "from his hideout".

Think about it....

Boxcar

Be a Liberal! Rewrite the Past. Lie about the Present. And offer no hope for the Future.

[GaryG]

Mr. Moore is alive and well I am very sorry to hear that....

[kenwoodallpromos]

http://www.allied-media.com/production/clients.htm.
Thank you UBL, for choosing the DOJ to deliver your tape to! :lol:

[twindouble]

Bush is a war monger, but not really wild yet!LOL!
Neil Cavuto is starting to ask how ALQ gets through to deliver tapes safely to Allied Media and why Allied Media's Aljazzya is not monitored.

I would assume in a time of war, there's a lot of top secret things going on, things that won't come out in my life time, regardless of how hard the Democrats and their treasonous cohurts try.


T.D.

[ljb]

Why don't you drop a thank you note to Bill Clinton for refusing to take delivery of UBL when he had the golden opportunity? Perhaps 911 would never have happened. Perhaps our invasion of Afghanistan wouldn't have been necessary. And most certaintly we wouldn't be seeing UBL flaunting himself at us "from his hideout".

Think about it....

Boxcar

Be a Liberal! Rewrite the Past. Lie about the Present. And offer no hope for the Future.
Since you seem determined to pass the buck, how about this one.
August PDB "OSAMA Determined to strike in U.S." Bush's response. "Now watch this drive"
Think about it......

[ljb]

I am very sorry to hear that....
Have some more watermelon, it will make you feel better.

[PaceAdvantage]

Until I see video that can be accurately dated, like holding a current Time magazine or something, I'll believe that he's been dead and gone for some time. Audio tapes repeating Michael Moore's talking points leave me unimpressed. He croaked in a military engagement, or an earthquake, or by disease, or by any other means. However it happened, his toadies couldn't exactly call the local coroner to take care of the situation. They can't say or do anything that would blow their own cover (especially if he's been in Iran, as has been reported). So they keep putting out these cryptic tapes every once in a while to bolster the morale of the true believers, and to keep Washington guessing. That's my theory, I'm sticking to it till proven wrong.

One of the more insightful posts in this thread. I'm inclined to agree...completely...

[JustRalph]

Don't believe the CIA when they say they have "verifired" it is Bin Laden's voice. They gain something from every one of these tapes and they want them to keep coming. No way they are going to say it ain't him...............

[so.cal.fan]

You got that right, JR.

[Tom]

I am very sorry to hear that....

If he has an HMO that could soon change! :D

[Tom]

The first thing I thought when I heard the tape was that OBL has become a registered democrat! It soulded like the same old sound bytes we read here and hear from SFB Dean. Pull out and we can be friends! BS!


Pakistanis harboring OBL and I wnat to know when we attack them? We have not used 10% of what I would consider accetpable action in hunting down this Piece of Shi'ite!

[Lefty]

Why can we find cows infected with mad cow but we can't find this Osama clown
____________________________________
Osama is hiding deep in some cave. The cow is on your plate.

[Secretariat]

Don't believe the CIA when they say they have "verifired" it is Bin Laden's voice. They gain something from every one of these tapes and they want them to keep coming. No way they are going to say it ain't him...............


Are you saying that the CIA is defrauding the American public for propaganda purposes? In other words the American public is being decevied by our own Central Intelligence Agency? If this is the case, it may be worse than if it is Bin Laden's voice verified.

I tend to beleive the CIA is telling us the truth this time. If not, then "when" can you ever beleive them, and if it is discovered they are lying as you assert about Bin Laden's voice, then when can we ever be sure they're accurately telling the American public the truth? Your assertion JR is a pretty frightening statement for if true, it places any future claims the CIA make in doubt.

[JustRalph]

Your assertion JR is a pretty frightening statement for if true, it places any future claims the CIA make in doubt.

it's called real world thinking.............reading between the lines and understanding the reality which is our world today...............you should try it sometime..............

[boxcar]

Since you seem determined to pass the buck, how about this one.
August PDB "OSAMA Determined to strike in U.S." Bush's response. "Now watch this drive"
Think about it......

You need to buy a clue, LJB. Clinton had the first shot at bin Laden long before Bush and 911. Slickster could have had UBL's head on a platter. The problem was, though, Clinton had other important priorities -- such as getting head in all the wrong places!

Boxcar

Be a Liberal! Rewrite the Past. Lie about the Present. And offer no hope for the Future.

[boxcar]

it's called real world thinking.............reading between the lines and understanding the reality which is our world today...............you should try it sometime..............

Well stated! Gotta wonder when the last time was that Sec had both feet touching the ground all at once and simultaneously. The depth of his naivete is unfathomable. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

Be a Liberal! Rewrite the Past. Lie about the Present. And offer no hope for the Future.

[Tom]

Sec....defrauding the public? Get real. The police rotuinely withhold info in open cases. They did not reveal certain things in the Zodiak case - because when they get tips or confessions, they use it to filter out the phonies.

Withholding info in an ongoing case is good police work. They may be learning a code used by Al Qeda, or they may be getting other infor that has helped them catch other operative. You could only see the political reason - propoganda.
Sec - seriously, you are paranoid and need to get your head straight - Bush is no angle, and I agree he has screwed some things up, but you cannot blame the world's ills on his administration.

Do you think we should use profiling to catch terrorists?

If not, then you think we should include all short people, all women, all European people, all Black people, all children, all babies, all one-legged men, all huncbacks, all Oriental people in our search for OBL?
If you do not, you are profiling to some degree.

[Secretariat]

Sec....defrauding the public? Get real. The police rotuinely withhold info in open cases. They did not reveal certain things in the Zodiak case - because when they get tips or confessions, they use it to filter out the phonies.

Withholding info in an ongoing case is good police work.

Withholding information is not the same as confirming information which is what the CIA did on the voice tape of Bin Laden. The assertion made by others in this thread is that the CIA "deliberately verified" the voice of Bin Laden knowing it isn't his voice. The CIA is not the local police force on a case. They are a part of the US Government and responsible to tell tell the truth to the public or to reveal nothing. Anything else is manipulative and creates doubt on anything the CIA says.

Our public officials are held accountable and are reliant on the information that is given to the public by the CIA to make decisions and to communicate with that same public.

Do you honestly beleive the CIA is lying when they confirm Bin Laden's voice? Do you think the administration for one moment would hold back revealing it if they knew Bin Laden was dead? Because if they are (which they're not, it would be repugnant and moraly reprehensible).

What woudl be the only motivation for doing something like that? To skew public opinion?

[rastajenk]

"Our public officials are held accountable and are reliant on the information that is given to the public by the CIA to make decisions and to communicate with that same public."

No, they're not. Where did you come up with that notion? They rely on information that is given to them by the CIA, which doesn't always have to be the same as that given to the public. Insider stuff, not for public consumption. It's a good thing policy decisions aren't made out of headline material. We'd have been doomed a long time ago.

[ljb]

You need to buy a clue, LJB. Clinton had the first shot at bin Laden long before Bush and 911. Slickster could have had UBL's head on a platter. The problem was, though, Clinton had other important priorities -- such as getting head in all the wrong places!

Boxcar

Be a Liberal! Rewrite the Past. Lie about the Present. And offer no hope for the Future.
And the buck passing continues. :bang: :bang: :bang:

[Lefty]

box, lbj has some weird notion that the past has no bearing on the future.

[JustRalph]

"Our public officials are held accountable and are reliant on the information that is given to the public by the CIA to make decisions and to communicate with that same public."

No, they're not. Where did you come up with that notion? They rely on information that is given to them by the CIA, which doesn't always have to be the same as that given to the public. Insider stuff, not for public consumption. It's a good thing policy decisions aren't made out of headline material. We'd have been doomed a long time ago.

Good post! You think the secret briefings that occur have the same info that the local paper prints the day before? No way Sec.

[ljb]

box, lbj has some weird notion that the past has no bearing on the future.
And what type of thought process led you to think that ? Musta had a Rush moment there Lefty. Just spout something out so you can here yourself blather. :D

[Lefty]

No, lbj, proof is in what you say. When it's pointed out that Clinton didn't get Bin Ladin the times he had the chance. If he had, maybe no 9-11. Not buckpassing as you say, but facts that have affected our present.

[Secretariat]

Good post! You think the secret briefings that occur have the same info that the local paper prints the day before? No way Sec.

I'm not talking about secret classified briefings. I'm talking about the CIA deleiberately confirming information that would deceive the American people. And not all public officials are privvy to classified information. Those officials who vote are not ALL given the same information relating to CIA information as we saw in the war vote in Iraq regarding the intelligence that was avalaible before the war vote. The CIA and the Executive can and has withheld information from the legislative branch.

As to being held accountable, the public votes officials into office based upon information they receive which they are told by their government is the truth. When their own intelligence services confirm information knowing it is false you're treading a very slippery slope.

The ramfiications? Say before Clinton left office and the week before the elelction, the CIA revealed that a terrorist attack was about to strike the US, and that the President needed to engage the miltiary immediately to preserve America. And what if the information was false, but was to flush out terrorists? We can't go down that path.

But it's BS anyway, if you think the CIA is lying about confirming the Bin Laden voice tape, continue live in your fantasy world.

[Tom]

What woudl be the only motivation for doing something like that? To skew public opinion?


How about to keep the info flowing?

You and I do not need to know anyhting for certain - we need those that can do something about it to call the shots. Go ahead and lie to me if it helps further that goal. I can do nothing to help, so I do not count.
this public's right to knwo everything is BS. Lying to me on this can do me absolutley no harm. It's not like telling me a nuclear plant is safe when it is melting down.

[ljb]

No, lbj, proof is in what you say. When it's pointed out that Clinton didn't get Bin Ladin the times he had the chance. If he had, maybe no 9-11. Not buckpassing as you say, but facts that have affected our present.
Clinton didn't get bin ladin when he had a chance. Bush just went on vacation when he was warned on top of not getting bin ladin when he had a chance. Oh by the way remind me, who was at the helm on 9/11 ? hmmmm

[Secretariat]

What woudl be the only motivation for doing something like that? To skew public opinion?

How about to keep the info flowing?

You and I do not need to know anyhting for certain - we need those that can do something about it to call the shots. Go ahead and lie to me if it helps further that goal. I can do nothing to help, so I do not count.
this public's right to knwo everything is BS. Lying to me on this can do me absolutley no harm. It's not like telling me a nuclear plant is safe when it is melting down.

So where do you draw the line Tom.

The Nazis didn't feel a need to inform their people about what was happening in the prison camps becasue it wouldn''t help their war effort. So why did their public need to know?

Why should we have known about Abu Ghraib, or My Lai?

Well just have to disagree on what the public should know.

Yuor statement that we don't need to know anything for certain is why there is so much confusion, and fear in this nation.

[Tom]

So where do you draw the line Tom.

The Nazis didn't feel a need to inform their people about what was happening in the prison camps becasue it wouldn''t help their war effort. So why did their public need to know?

Why should we have known about Abu Ghraib, or My Lai?

Well just have to disagree on what the public should know.

Yuor statement that we don't need to know anything for certain is why there is so much confusion, and fear in this nation.

**No comparison to the nazi concentration camps - you are scraping low for that one.

**My Lai - murder of innocent people is always a need to know thing - agin, though, not related to this. Dang, you can go low can't you!

**Abu Grad - glad to know that we were on the ball with that one, but should have kept quiet about it so we could have continued to gain vital info on terorist activity. From now on, we will use the "secret camps" ;)