Beyer on the "New" Gulfstream Park

[highnote]

Has anyone been to the new Gulfstream Park, yet?

Beyer does not have good things to say about GP in his article in today's DRF.

[xfile]

Beyer is fastly becoming a dinosaur in that less and less horseplayers really care what he has to say. That Gulfstream track is BEAUTIFUL. He's insane. And it will be one of the best major entertainment venues in south florida. It's not 1975 anymore Andy....wake up and smell the Starbucks :cool:

[cj]

Will be is the key there. It doesn't make it great now. Andy is still the best writer on the sport, bar none, unless you like kiss up to horsemen / track managaement fluff pieces.

[saratoga guy]

I think Beyer is probably in tune with the majority on this one...

The idea that a 21st century racetrack doesn't need a 10,000 seat grandstand might not be wildly out of line. But Gulfstream averaged about 8500 people in 2004 -- the year before construction -- which makes cutting the size of the "grandstand" from 10,000 to 400+ (seats available to the public) seem like crazy overkill.

That the track is "beautiful" isn't surprising. Having spent the better part of $200 million on the facility there should be a pretty big "wow factor". But aesthetics and practicality are two different matters.

[xfile]

Andy is still the best writer on the sport,

Still????? lol Never was....He can't hold Barry Meadow's jock strap. You made the broad comment "writer". There's a dozen who are better "writers". He WAS an intelligent rebel in his time (70's-80's) but now, like alot of things in this sport, he fails to be able to change with the times. But then again he is employed by the biggest dinosaur of all time. Actually 2 dinosaurs. Let's not get started on YET ANOTHER Andy Beyer debate ok? lolololol :D :cool: PA must have a gig tied up in Beyer bashing and Beyer stroking. Enough already....:D

[JulieKrone]

Beyer's not off his rocker in the least when it comes to commentary-- he's proven it time and time again. Here's Finley agreeing with him & pointing out even worse things: http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=finley_bill&id=2282927

Stronach on the other hand-- he could use some sessions with Dr. Phil. His biggest obstacle lies in not having overcome his original Old World upbringing and background, then piling on that by trying to make a go of it in the New World. The privileged, almost arrogant circle whence he comes from tends to think of employees as subservient subjects at the beck and call of their master: always to obey and never to speak to the lord unless spoken to first.
There weren't beaucoup mass migrations & their subsequent revolutions in every continent without good reason.

For a lot of us it's difficult to comprehend the psychology, or that it's even widespread; especially if we haven't lived and worked abroad for prolonged periods. But it's almost like a totally different planet & species: folks of even below average means are used to having at least one or two servants/ handymen as they grow up, and everyone knows their place: work is not the democratic corporate world we enjoy here, but an extension of the home they grew up in-- employees, like servants, do what they're told and don't make a habit of giving the boss unsolicited comments.

[GMB@BP]

Still????? lol Never was....He can't hold Barry Meadow's jock strap. You made the broad comment "writer". There's a dozen who are better "writers". He WAS an intelligent rebel in his time (70's-80's) but now, like alot of things in this sport, he fails to be able to change with the times. But then again he is employed by the biggest dinosaur of all time. Actually 2 dinosaurs. Let's not get started on YET ANOTHER Andy Beyer debate ok? lolololol :D :cool: PA must have a gig tied up in Beyer bashing and Beyer stroking. Enough already....:D

we have had the Andy sucks/is great debate enough,

but your 12 writers, who I would assume publish mainstream press articles as that would be a fair comparison, who are they so I can go read their stuff on the internet?

Dont give me Barry Meadow, I have never picked up a paper or any type of mainstream media and seen his stuff.....but I do agree he is good. Who are the voices out there printing something that might make a differnece?

Bottom line is Beyer has been one of the few voices who has been critical in a MAJOR news paper about the sport, while agreeing with him sometimes, and disagreeing others.

[cj]

Yes, I was referring to writers for mainstream publications. I know of Richard Eng, who is I guess OK, wouldn't go any further than that.

Like I said, at least it isn't all fluff and puff, if I want that, I'll just read the next Jay Hovdey column.

[GMB@BP]

Yes, I was referring to writers for mainstream publications. I know of Richard Eng, who is I guess OK, wouldn't go any further than that.

Like I said, at least it isn't all fluff and puff, if I want that, I'll just read the next Jay Hovdey column.

the one that I read that is pretty good is west from the dallas morning news.

[classhandicapper]

I haven't been there yet, but my feeling is that racing is going to change a lot over the next 20 years and if you are going to spend 171M, you might as well prepare for the future.

I think there's going to be a lot fewer racetracks 20 years from now.

There will be a handful, like Saratoga, Del Mar, and a couple of others that will draw large live crowds for the racing alone because of the vacation-like atmoshpere, quality of racing etc...

The rest are going to be simulcast and multi-gambling like entertainment centers with live racing mostly an afterthought and probably not even really required because of simulcasting and other revenues. Many of the smaller markets will disappear except for the simulcasting/entertainment centers that are pumping races in from NY, CA, KY and the other major markets.

There's simply no longer a reason to have massive amounts of real estate and other economic resources tied up in a racetrack unless unless the live racing can support "itself" economically - which for most is not the case.

Seriously, who needs a racetrack if everyone at the facility is playing slots, poker, or simulcast races from the bigger markets.

This isn't the way I'd like for it to be, but I think the trend is starting and will continue for the next 20 years. It will be slow because governments wil screw up the process and horsemen will fight it, but I think it can't be stopped.

[cj]

This doesn't sound like the fabulous place Karl was touting.

Like all of the planned restaurants, it will be enclosed and air conditioned. In a place where tourists come to enjoy the matchless climate, Gulfstream has not a single comfortable, functional place to watch the races out of doors.

This sounds even worse:

The new paddock is a travesty. Instead of being the center of attention, Thoroughbreds are saddled in a narrow tunnel, outside of public view. They make a three-minute appearance in a walking ring so cramped that there is barely enough room for the owners.

Looks like my winter racing vacation will be in Hot Springs, AK or New Orleans, LA when I return to the United States.

And the best for last:

The explanation for the Horse Wizards' presence is the same as the reason for everything else that doesn't make sense here - and it's not because of a rational master plan. Speaking about the Horse Wizards, Magna executives acknowledged privately that no one can ever tell the chairman, "Frank, this is a bad idea."

I think I'll invest elsewhere.

[karlskorner]

Having read Beyer's article I have to agree with him on one subject, the paddock area was a jewel to sit in during chilly days and catch a little sun. What Beyer really misses is the terrace in front of the Press box we use to sit in to watch the races, best seats in the house. It was a short walk to the back of the press box to overlook the saddeling and paddock area, no need to go down 2 flights to view the horses.

In my opinion GP is twice as good as it was last year and only half as good as it will be next year. Todays Miami Herald brings up a real problem for Magna and that is traffic. The County commisioners and Magna have yet to figure out how to handle the traffic that this huge complex, when completed, will cause.

The big surprise was during a couple of chilly days last week when I went to CRC and saw 2/3 thousand people there, who should have been at GP. The simulcasting that GP is doing in my opinion is very good and the free admission and parking has caused a lot of familiar faces to to remain at CRC. I think Magna will be looking to extend it's racing days once all is completed.

What Frank Stronach is doing for racing is hard for many people to understand, including Beyer. Stronach sees the future, Beyer is living in the past.

[highnote]

With only 400 grandstand seats, will GP be able to host the Breeders' Cup?

[kenwoodallpromos]

"What Beyer really misses is the terrace in front of the Press box we use to sit in to watch the races, best seats in the house... to overlook the saddeling and paddock area, no need to go down 2 flights to view the horses."
Did I paraphrase that correctly?
Say it ain't so TLG!

[Figman]

No

[karlskorner]

The Press box ran front to back, in front was a terrace for viewing the entire track, short 100 feet or so to the rear you stood on a down staircase to view saddeling and paddock area. The Press box of today is 1/2 the size it use to be.

[BIG49010]

Stro sees the future for sure, R A C I N O, and heavy on C I N O....

[Valuist]

In the general sense, Frank is right. Most tracks will become racinos. The mistake he made is thinking all tracks will become racinos. Some tracks, like Saratoga and Del Mar and a handful of others, are NOT meant to be racinos. Gulfstream Park is one of those that are not meant to be a racino. How many people fly down to south Florida to attend GP to watch the races? Now how many fly down to Hallandale to play the slots???How could he have built an empire with that thinking?

[Valuist]

CJ-

If you don't go to Hot Springs, better book the airfare for Shreveport, not New Orleans, unless you don't mind a bit of a drive north.

[the little guy]

The Press box ran front to back, in front was a terrace for viewing the entire track, short 100 feet or so to the rear you stood on a down staircase to view saddeling and paddock area. The Press box of today is 1/2 the size it use to be.

I spent a lot of time on the front terrace, and it was one of the best spots on the track, but as for viewing the paddock, from the bottom floor I feel like you had to walk out to the veranda out back ( not in the press box...but an optimal place to get sun ).

The press box was one of the first things I asked Beyer about when he called to rant about the place a few nights ago. Tis a shame to lose the old one.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Beyer's not off his rocker in the least when it comes to commentary-- he's proven it time and time again. Here's Finley agreeing with him & pointing out even worse things: http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=finley_bill&id=2282927

Stronach on the other hand-- he could use some sessions with Dr. Phil. His biggest obstacle lies in not having overcome his original Old World upbringing and background, then piling on that by trying to make a go of it in the New World. The privileged, almost arrogant circle whence he comes from tends to think of employees as subservient subjects at the beck and call of their master: always to obey and never to speak to the lord unless spoken to first.
There weren't beaucoup mass migrations & their subsequent revolutions in every continent without good reason.

For a lot of us it's difficult to comprehend the psychology, or that it's even widespread; especially if we haven't lived and worked abroad for prolonged periods. But it's almost like a totally different planet & species: folks of even below average means are used to having at least one or two servants/ handymen as they grow up, and everyone knows their place: work is not the democratic corporate world we enjoy here, but an extension of the home they grew up in-- employees, like servants, do what they're told and don't make a habit of giving the boss unsolicited comments.

I havent read the articale from Beyer,What I do find very weird is how fast the horses are running, Gives you a false reading on your horse, Geeze I claimed a filly fri and she went 21.3 45.1 58.1 105 for the 5 1/2 furlongs..Horses here are running like the are in ALB New Mexico..I think the track is too fast..
Your comments pertaining To "Frankie" are way off base...

[karlskorner]

Lets go one step further. Why reduce the size of GP's press box ? Mr. Stronach sees the future. Most of the newspapers on the East coast devote little if any space to horseracing, some of the larger ones have dropped coverage completely. There was a time when it was different. Up the spirial staircase in the Press box and you found Joe Hirsch, Art Grace and others who had their own office space, Beyer never made it to the 2nd floor, they just gave him a desk on the 1st floor. Most reporters today have only memories of "free" lunch and drinks after the 9th race and can only fill their articles with sour grapes.

[the little guy]

I wouldn't say Beyer " never " made it to the second floor, hell we all had to go upstairs for the bathroom, but people pretty much went to whatever spot they were given.

I understand full well that the old press box was unnecessarily big for today's press corps, but making it the size of a small living room may have been going overboard.

[toetoe]

Don't kid yourselves re. the BC. They will put up temporary seating, a la World Series, and anybody directly behind will get no satisfaction after yelling, "Down in front."

[karlskorner]

With the coverage that newspapers are giving racing today, they are lucky to be given the small space. If it weren't for DRF, TbrdTimes and others, we wouldn't know that horseracing still existed. I am lucky that I came through the "best" years of horseracing, as to the future, I leave it up to the young Turks.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Despite my jab about Beyer wanting to be "above it all", I totally agree with TLG (and Beyer) on this one.
They need a decent sized press box because GP I understand is a popular track. What about the "Sunshine Millions" press?

[classhandicapper]

In the general sense, Frank is right. Most tracks will become racinos. The mistake he made is thinking all tracks will become racinos. Some tracks, like Saratoga and Del Mar and a handful of others, are NOT meant to be racinos. Gulfstream Park is one of those that are not meant to be a racino. How many people fly down to south Florida to attend GP to watch the races? Now how many fly down to Hallandale to play the slots???How could he have built an empire with that thinking?

I think you may have hit the nail on the head!

The real issue is whether Florida (and GP specifically) is destined to become a simulcast/casino/shopping/food complex or one of the major racing centers in the US (over the long haul).

I generally vacation at Saratoga every year, but I did vacation once at Santa Anita, twice at Gulfstream, and once at Churchill Downs for Breeder's Cup events. If he has taken GP out of the BC picture with the new design, it may have beem a major blunder for that specific track while being a decent design for many other places in the country.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Lets go one step further. Why reduce the size of GP's press box ? Mr. Stronach sees the future. Most of the newspapers on the East coast devote little if any space to horseracing, some of the larger ones have dropped coverage completely. There was a time when it was different. Up the spirial staircase in the Press box and you found Joe Hirsch, Art Grace and others who had their own office space, Beyer never made it to the 2nd floor, they just gave him a desk on the 1st floor. Most reporters today have only memories of "free" lunch and drinks after the 9th race and can only fill their articles with sour grapes.

What good is a press box when the "Media" cant even give a story in the Miami Herald,I grew up reading the Toronto Sun and everyday there was a story about some horse or another, Geeze you dont have a clue as who is what unless your a graded stakes winner.There is no backside coverage unless its a important stake..Whats wrong with the media covering the everyday working people..You mention Joe Hirsh..Yes he was a true lover of the game and wrote about everything and everybody. Times have changed Karl,Hell you have reported more then the media about Gulfstream.

[cj]

CJ-

If you don't go to Hot Springs, better book the airfare for Shreveport, not New Orleans, unless you don't mind a bit of a drive north.

LOL, not this year. (And I was thinking Evangaline :) )

[karlskorner]

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it, does it make a noise ? If the newspapers don't want to write about racing, how is the publc to know whats happening. Frank Carlson is a " stringer " for the Miami Herald, if he is lucky he gets about 3 10 line articles a week. Dave Joseph writes about 4/5 different sports for the Ft. Lauderdale Sun Sentinental, had a small blurb about the opening of GP. Here we have one of the premier tracks in the country running with top horses, trainers and jockeys and aside from a small group of us the rest of the public don't know horseracing exists. Mr. Stronach probably has made some mistakes, not to many, to become a Billionaire, but at least he has put his money ( and other peoples ) into what he believes is the future of horseracing, if it's slot machines, shopping centers and condo's, only time will tell.

[cj]

I don't recall seeing too many poker articles in mainstream papers, yet that seems to be doing just fine.

The reason Beyer is the best in my opinion is that he is the only guy that questions anything shady with the racing establishment. The rest are all kiss asses trying to keep the status quo and a cushy job.

Racing needs some real journalists to go undercover, dig up real stories, and they would get space in the local paper. Your average sports page reader doesn't want to hear about who Joe Blow likes in the Florida Derby, people that want that info buy the Form. They don't want to hear about how Smarty Jones' groom likes to feed him peppermints.

What would someone read? Here is a start, how about long undercover story about how Todd Pletcher turns crap horses into win machines at Gulfstream this year. That would be great. Joe Blow would love to read this, as I'm sure the truth isn't pretty.

[karlskorner]

It's the weather, god they love all that sunshine and special feed Mr. P. provides, I watch them look around, they know they are in paradise.

[JustRalph]

I don't recall seeing too many poker articles in mainstream papers, yet that seems to be doing just fine.

The reason Beyer is the best in my opinion is that he is the only guy that questions anything shady with the racing establishment. The rest are all kiss asses trying to keep the status quo and a cushy job.

Racing needs some real journalists to go undercover, dig up real stories, and they would get space in the local paper. Your average sports page reader doesn't want to hear about who Joe Blow likes in the Florida Derby, people that want that info buy the Form. They don't want to hear about how Smarty Jones' groom likes to feed him peppermints.

What would someone read? Here is a start, how about long undercover story about how Todd Pletcher turns crap horses into win machines at Gulfstream this year. That would be great. Joe Blow would love to read this, as I'm sure the truth isn't pretty.

I was just about to write a similar post. CJ has it right on. This paragraph describes my biggest bitch about the writers who are "entrenched" in the sport.

"The reason Beyer is the best in my opinion is that he is the only guy that questions anything shady with the racing establishment. The rest are all kiss asses trying to keep the status quo and a cushy job. "

This is so true. And if you exchange an email or two with some of them, they will tell you it's true, too! They know it, and some of them are pretty damn comfortable. You couldn't blow their asses out of their jobs with a truck full of Bunker busters. And that is sad............because I am sick of hearing the same old shit from them.

[rrbauer]

cj wrote:
"Looks like my winter racing vacation will be in Hot Springs, AK or New Orleans, LA when I return to the United States."

Comment:
Give Tampa a try. I went there last year for the first time. Will be back down there in March for a week this year. Aside from opening day (did it last year) which is a zoo, there's plenty of good seating at reasonable prices, decent food, fair prices on drinks (bloody mary's are about $3.50). You can get up close and personal with the activities in the saddling area and still get back to the clubhouse with time to spare to watch the races.

cj also wrote:
"The reason Beyer is the best in my opinion is that he is the only guy that questions anything shady with the racing establishment. The rest are all kiss asses trying to keep the status quo and a cushy job. "

No question. Beyer has uncovered fourteen of the last five scandals at major race tracks.

[PaceAdvantage]

The reason Beyer is the best in my opinion is that he is the only guy that questions anything shady with the racing establishment. The rest are all kiss asses trying to keep the status quo and a cushy job.

Amen brother CJ....Amen....

[DerbyTrail]

For what it's worth, here's my take from Derby Trail on the new GP after my visit there Saturday...

POTENTIALLY GREAT GULFSTREAM A WORK IN PROGRESS

I was able to see the new Gulfstream Park for myself this past weekend and have mostly positive things to say as opposed to the knee-jerk negativity emanating from much of the racing media. Firstly, everyone should recognize that if one was grading the project scholastically, it would have to receive an "incomplete".

It is far from finished, and even the opening of the interiors of the upper floors of Phase I of the vast overhaul will not make the today's new Gulfstream the final new Gulfstream. The plant is a work-in-progress, and no one should be providing definitive thumbs-up or thumbs-down decisions until Magna has had a chance to incorporate any and all of its' final touches to the $150+ million effort.

In contrast to many of those that traveled annually to Hallandale on a winter pilgrimage, I had no pre-existing adoration for the aging 60's style edifice and open backyard. I can tell you that from a "vendor" standpoint, in concert with my association with Carolina Barbecue, that the old facility was poorly laid out and antiquated past utility. As a venue for the race fan, it was certainly pleasant enough.

The new building is sumptuous and elegant with a Rococo-Baroque design providing an European feel. The two grand halls on the ground floor are equipped as a large, comfortable simulcast parlor on one side and a "casino-ready" gaming room on the other. The track apron is roomy with exterior betting windows and basic concessions easily reachable to railbirds. The "patio" area has a clubby atmosphere to it, with benches and tables available to those that care to sit trackside.

Above and behind that palazzo there is a mezzanine of very limited "overhang" seating which subs for box seats. Clearly, management expects patrons to spend the day in the mammoth second floor dining room that opens in another few weeks. The third floor will give rise to a nightclub and more dining options. Though the decision to limit outdoor seating for former clubhouse OR grandstand patrons to such an extent remains curious, there still appears there will be enough room for socially-diverse Dade, Broward and Palm Beach Counties visitors alike, once the complex is complete.

Critics need to recognize that the there are two more construction elements yet to be built on either side of the main building, and Magna execs promise there is going to be more open areas into which trackgoers can gravitate and settle. As it is now, the largest congregation point is in and around the walking ring, a parade ellipse that circles a large fountain pool.

While many are haranguing MEC about the obscured saddling area adjacent to the ring and its fountain, it doesn't appear to me that the "paddock" is as big a problem as some are making it out to be. The open stalls are no bigger or smaller than those you see anywhere else, though owners may have to stand back a bit from their horses during pre-race meet-and-greets.

The new Gulfstream "experience" is still a ways off, but in the meantime, there are a number of pleasantries to take away from a visit. First and foremost is the overwhelmingly positive and infectious attitude conveyed by the operation's staff. Managers, ticket sellers, foodservice staff and porters alike are deliriously cheerful, proud of their new digs, and eager to help anyone with a question or request. If customer service is high on patrons' lists of concerns, they will come away with a plus view of how Magna has prepared its' crew for this endeavor.

While not everyone who has attended races in Florida over the decades will be thrilled with Frank Stronach's "new paradigm" for racing, my initial read on his attempt to incorporate additional entertainment elements into the racetrack environment is positive. Hialeah and Sunshine Park are gone, just as many of the old Spring Training facilities have disappeared from baseball fans' view.

Though a certain quaintness and gentility gets eliminated through these kinds of changes, racing and its' product offering faces challenges that demand bold attempts to entice and embrace new and affluent "destination" customers. Failure to recognize shifts in demographic and social habits and practices has been responsible for many of the attendance and popularity declines in racing over the past 4-5 decades. Continuing to play ostrich to the further changes that lie ahead could prove fatal to the industry's long term prospects...

Love it or hate it, I give credit to Magna for TRYING to do something different in an arena where the "same old, same old" clearly isn't working anywhere but at seasonal meets like Saratoga, Monmouth, Oaklawn, Del Mar or Colonial. A visit to Gulfstream will be the only way for long time racing fans, and importantly potential new fans, to make up their minds for themselves. It looks to me like those that make the effort will want to return, and that's the whole idea.

[Valuist]

IMO, Beyer has done more PR for horse racing 100-fold than the NTRA has done in its entire existance. Agree w/him or not, he's the best thing that ever happened to the sport.

[rrbauer]

Derby Trail wrote:
"Love it or hate it, I give credit to Magna for TRYING to do something different in an arena where the "same old, same old" clearly isn't working anywhere but at seasonal meets like Saratoga, Monmouth, Oaklawn, Del Mar or Colonial."

Comment:
Isn't Gulfstream a "seasonal" meet? Maybe there isn't enough geographic separation from the Calder-saturated market for GP to enjoy its seasonal status. And, maybe that's why, over on the other coast, Tampa is enjoying the fruits of attendance and handle increases.

Whatever the market nuances may be, "same old", "same old" concepts like having a clean facility, friendly employees and fair prices never seem to get lost on customers.....anytime, any season, anywhere.

[DerbyTrail]

Isn't Gulfstream a "seasonal" meet? Maybe there isn't enough geographic separation from the Calder-saturated market for GP to enjoy its seasonal status. And, maybe that's why, over on the other coast, Tampa is enjoying the fruits of attendance and handle increases.

Whatever the market nuances may be, "same old", "same old" concepts like having a clean facility, friendly employees and fair prices never seem to get lost on customers.....anytime, any season, anywhere.

RB,

Good points... GP is certainly a seasonal meet now.. I think Magna is banking/planning on some expanded dates in the (near) future. Plus, the facility will be used all the time. If you get people used to coming when horses aren't running, they'll certainly be there when meets are being conducted.

And you bet the above "customer service" qualities go a long way wherever we're talking about. Of course "policy" and "practice" don't always match up to the custoner's or management's satisfaction...

(Without thumbing the thread, I forget if you've been to GP yet.. Of course, the diffinitive report on PaceAd will come from "TLG"... The Countdown Clock for his arrival has been set up at Fort Lauderdale Airport, and in South Beach the Pool Bar at the Delano is chilling his Perrier Joet already!)

[the little guy]

The Delano is one of my favorite spots.

[DerbyTrail]

The Delano is one of my favorite spots.

Uh huh... And undoubtedly, you're one of their favorite guests....

[the little guy]

I haven't been down there a lot the last few years.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Derby Trail wrote:
"Love it or hate it, I give credit to Magna for TRYING to do something different in an arena where the "same old, same old" clearly isn't working anywhere but at seasonal meets like Saratoga, Monmouth, Oaklawn, Del Mar or Colonial."

Comment:
Isn't Gulfstream a "seasonal" meet? Maybe there isn't enough geographic separation from the Calder-saturated market for GP to enjoy its seasonal status. And, maybe that's why, over on the other coast, Tampa is enjoying the fruits of attendance and handle increases.

Whatever the market nuances may be, "same old", "same old" concepts like having a clean facility, friendly employees and fair prices never seem to get lost on customers.....anytime, any season, anywhere.

Gulfstream may be seasonal but Calder is year round, Calder horses are the heart of GP racing claiming races,Would be a lot more but lots get run off or aren't alloted stalls making horsesman and owners sell.The real amazing thing is that you have FULL fields with lots on the AE at Tampa.Geeze that place is almost as tough as GP.The problem lies with horseman NOT getting stalls, They need to make room for more horses..They are forgeting, No Horse No Race

[rrbauer]

Derby Train wrote:
"(Without thumbing the thread, I forget if you've been to GP yet.. Of course, the diffinitive report on PaceAd will come from "TLG"... The Countdown Clock for his arrival has been set up at Fort Lauderdale Airport, and in South Beach the Pool Bar at the Delano is chilling his Perrier Joet already!)"

Comment:
Have not been to GP in years. Will do Tampa in March and when they get the new GP "finished", I'll give it a go.

[classhandicapper]

What would someone read? Here is a start, how about long undercover story about how Todd Pletcher turns crap horses into win machines at Gulfstream this year.

Pletcher gets an amazing amount of talented stock to work with and he generally takes it wherever it classes up well given the conditions they have remaining etc... I haven't been following the action at GP much yet, but if he's been moving up lightly raced well bred horses (which is his usual modus operandi), then the real test of what's going on at GP will be how those horses perform when they leave there and come to NY etc.... If they fall apart I'd be suspicious. If they keep developing, then I'd say he's probably just got a lot of good horses geared up for that meet.

[cj]

Pletcher gets an amazing amount of talented stock to work with and he generally takes it wherever it classes up well given the conditions they have remaining etc... I haven't been following the action at GP much yet, but if he's been moving up lightly raced well bred horses (which is his usual modus operandi), then the real test of what's going on at GP will be how those horses perform when they leave there and come to NY etc.... If they fall apart I'd be suspicious. If they keep developing, then I'd say he's probably just got a lot of good horses geared up for that meet.

You haven't been following. At least one has run elsewhere already, with poor results in a big race. Anyone can generalize why his horses might win at a high rate, but his figure jumps compare with the Gill / Shuman from ones from a few years ago.

[CryingForTheHorses]

You haven't been following. At least one has run elsewhere already, with poor results in a big race. Anyone can generalize why his horses might win at a high rate, but his figure jumps compare with the Gill / Shuman from ones from a few years ago.

..Define your post!!

[delayjf]

The other issue with magna attempting to prolong the GP meet is the fact that there is an annual influx of horses from the NY and midwest circuits along with the Calder horses. How long does he expect these out of state stables to remain in FL???

With all this investment in casinos / malls etc. makes me wonder if he's not using horse racing as a trojan horse some how. Once his casinos are up and running he would then dump racing as unprofitable.

[the little guy]

I'm sure the legislation is written that they can't have slots without having horse races.

[weegee]

Legislation can always be rewritten. Look at the NY budget: Pataki now wants non-racetrack casinos to be built in New York City. They would be in direct competition with Aqueduct - if that ever gets built.

[BIG49010]

My guess is he is going to try for the November to Mid - April snowbird dates.

You see the better NY horses at Calder during the "Tropical Meet". I am all for it, the racing so far at GP is great, unlike some people I love large fields.

[maxwell]

Beyer gave GP a 53 ... the problem is, he's a 33. :D

[linrom1]

"Level the Oklahoma track for a drive in theater and lots of consessions selling pizza and hot dogs..Sell the paddock to a MINI MALL and CONDOS.. Horses they will learn to eat pizza and pull slots too"


"Saratoga---- I can see it now..Level the place and build a state of the art CEMENT PALACE..With a Food Court with no windows and no seats.. JUST CEMENT"

:D :D :D

[lamboruns]

well i DONT THINK Oaklawn (by far my fav track) will ever be a racino...but i already dislike the instant racing machines...i think gambling machine and horsplay doesnt mix....i did enjoy playing poker at the dog track in florida...table as soft as butter