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lsbets
01-15-2006, 06:33 PM
The NY Times has a great photo of an old man and a young boy in Pakistan next the "the remains of a missile" fired into a house in an attempt to get some of the Al Queda leadership:

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/01/14/international/worldspecial/14cnd-afghan.ready.html

There's only one problem - that's not a missile, its an artillery shell, probably from the decades of war in Afghanistan, and will probably be used as an IED by Al Queda or the Taliban.

Sometimes you really have to wonder if the folks at the NY Times are just too stupid to fact check, or if they really do want to see us lose. Certainly the picture of this old man and young boy next to the non missile makes it seem like we targeted innocent civilians in Pakistan. When a consistant pattern emerges, as it has at the Times, you really start to wonder about them. Looking at it, you might think that Al Queda staged the photo for publicity and the NY Times was more than willing to play along.

GaryG
01-15-2006, 06:45 PM
The NYT knew good and well what it was. I'm not going so far to say they want us to lose, but they have exactly the same agenda that some of the "anti-war" posters here have. "Anti-war" is a smoke screen for "anti-administration"....they just want the govt to look as bad as possible. No real American can read that garbage without getting mad.

JustRalph
01-15-2006, 07:14 PM
Great catch LS. Makes you wonder how far they will go sometimes...........

lsbets
01-15-2006, 07:39 PM
Seriously, don't you think when we are at war they can hire someone with a military background and say "Hey, tell us what this shit is before we publish it." Wouldn't that be somewhat important for the supposedly most prestigious paper in the world?

Tom
01-15-2006, 07:42 PM
I sent it to Jay Leno for his "Headlines" segment.:D


BTW, are you sure that old man is an old man? Looks like he should be standing in front of a cigar store somewhere.


Freedom of the press.....ahhhhh, seemed like a good idea at the time.
"All the news that's fit to get wrong!"

lsbets
01-15-2006, 07:53 PM
You might be on to something Tom, that old man looks like the cigar store Indian from that Seinfeld episode ........ :lol: :lol: :lol:

46zilzal
01-15-2006, 08:06 PM
Etymology: Latin missilis, from mittere to throw, send
1 : capable of being thrown or projected to strike a distant object
2 : adapted for throwing or hurling missiles
it is a GENERIC term meaning ANYTHING that is projected so they are correct

lsbets
01-15-2006, 08:32 PM
Etymology: Latin missilis, from mittere to throw, send
1 : capable of being thrown or projected to strike a distant object
2 : adapted for throwing or hurling missiles
it is a GENERIC term meaning ANYTHING that is projected so they are correct

Okay, well the implication is that "missile" (and I don't know anyone who calls an artilelry shell a missile) came from our airstrike a couple of days ago. Problem - the Predator drone shoots a Hellfire missile, and that is 155mm artillery shell, more than likely Soviet in design. Also, I don't know anyone - not one person - who calls an artillery shell a missile. Damn, you will justify anything if it supports your position, won't you?

46zilzal
01-15-2006, 08:56 PM
many time in books I have seen shells referred to as missles...I just have a different vocabulary expereince that you do and understood what they were saying .Nothing MORE nothing less

Indulto
01-15-2006, 09:51 PM
Sounds to me like NYT's new policy is "All the news that's print to fit" and a new 46 position belongs in the "Kama Sutra." :D

JustRalph
01-15-2006, 09:57 PM
many time in books I have seen shells referred to as missles...I just have a different vocabulary expereince that you do and understood what they were saying .Nothing MORE nothing less

Hey LS.......... "he has a different vocabulary experience than you"

and he understands better than you what they were saying...........

If he hadn't posted it................I almost wouldn't believe it.........This guy is a hoot! :lol:

46zilzal
01-15-2006, 10:08 PM
That simply means that a nuclear physicist, a teacher and a stock broker have distinctly different vocabularies based upon their differing expereinces of their life, their education, and their work place...nothing more nothing less.

An electrician would have a VERY different vocabulary than would a history professor. DIFFERENT, not better nor worse just DIFFERENT

JustRalph
01-15-2006, 10:17 PM
That simply means that a nuclear physicist, a teacher and a stock broker have distinctly different vocabularies based upon their differing expereinces of their life, their education, and their work place...nothing more nothing less.

An electrician would have a VERY different vocabulary than would a history professor. DIFFERENT, not better nor worse just DIFFERENT

the first rule of getting yourself out of a hole.........stop digging........!!

46zilzal
01-15-2006, 10:21 PM
I'm not in ANY hole no matter what you think

boxcar
01-15-2006, 10:21 PM
That simply means that a nuclear physicist, a teacher and a stock broker have distinctly different vocabularies based upon their differing expereinces of their life, their education, and their work place...nothing more nothing less.

An electrician would have a VERY different vocabulary than would a history professor. DIFFERENT, not better nor worse just DIFFERENT

Well, now, doesn't this "profound" explanation tell us why Slick Willy, out of his unique experiences, educational background and his prominent job was forced to ask what "is" means? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

Tom
01-15-2006, 10:56 PM
No matter what it is, it didn't explode! It was not tha casue of that house being destroyed. I suspect faulty contracting. And that shell looks like a Pakistani Mix Master.

DJofSD
01-15-2006, 11:22 PM
"Potatoe....tomato.....let's call the whole thing off."

Suff
01-16-2006, 12:38 AM
I thought you folks were free market types.


Sunday NY Times is $4.50 cents.

Those that want it, buy it. Those that don't , don't.

Free market.

46zilzal
01-16-2006, 01:20 AM
Well, now, doesn't this "profound" explanation tell us why Slick Willy, out of his unique experiences, educational background and his prominent job was forced to ask what "is" means?

Boxcar
word have meanings :MULTIPLE ONES usually but his one is fairly obvious when used correctly:Missile
From Wikipedia,
A missile (CE pronunciation: /ˈmɪsaɪl/; AmE: /ˈmɪsl/) is, in general, a projectile—that is, something thrown or otherwise propelled. Missiles can range from a rock thrown from a slingshot, through a crossbow or ballista bolt, to a Minuteman III intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) with multiple nuclear warheads.

NoDayJob
01-16-2006, 01:53 AM
Great catch LS. Makes you wonder how far they will go sometimes...........

:D It ain't called the New York "Crimes" fo' nuttin'. :D

Suff
01-16-2006, 01:59 AM
:D It ain't called the New York "Crimes" fo' nuttin'. :D

Don't read it , don't buy it. whats the problem? It aint your momma.


Free market. Those with 4 fiddy, buy it, those that don't , don't.

It aint raping you is it? Is it goin up your ass without permission? So wtf? its a business....It sells ####. You don't wanna buy it? Then don't!

NoDayJob
01-16-2006, 02:02 AM
Don't read it , don't buy it. whats the problem? It aint your momma.


Free market. Those with 4 fiddy, buy it, those that don't , don't.

It's aint raping you is it? Is it goin up your ass without permission? So wtf? its a business....It sells ####. You don't wanna buy it? Then don't!

:lol: Ya gots stock in it, eh? Kool! :lol:

Suff
01-16-2006, 02:06 AM
:lol: Ya gots stock in it, eh? Kool! :lol:

Are you interested in a Subsrciption Mr NDJ? If not..2324349849


lol.

stock. ??:lol: I'm on the no fly list, the no buy list, the no hi list and basically barred from particpating in mainstream life , minus my twice monthly visits to a Parole Officer.

They call me Mr. Dudley there .........btw.

NoDayJob
01-16-2006, 02:10 AM
Are you interested in a Subsrciption Mr NDJ? If not..2324349849


lol.

stock. ??:lol: I'm on the no fly list, the no buy list, the no hi list and basically barred from particpating in mainstream life , minus my twice monthly visits to a Parole Officer.

They call me Mr. Dudley there .........btw.

Not--- :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Suff
01-16-2006, 02:14 AM
Not--- :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Ohio Congressman Linked to Scandal Gives Up Post (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/16/politics/16ney.html)
By CARL HULSE
Republican Representative Bob Ney said he would relinquish his chairmanship of the House Administration Committee.
brain food



WWW.NYtimes.com (http://www.NYtimes.com).
Free with a Purchase of one hot Dog, one beer.

NoDayJob
01-16-2006, 02:28 AM
A pox on all their houses! Politicians serve only themselves and their contributors. Representive government? Hogwash!

PaceAdvantage
01-16-2006, 03:07 AM
Don't read it , don't buy it. whats the problem? It aint your momma.


Free market. Those with 4 fiddy, buy it, those that don't , don't.

It aint raping you is it? Is it goin up your ass without permission? So wtf? its a business....It sells ####. You don't wanna buy it? Then don't!


What the heck is the point of your post? We're not allowed to comment anymore on supposed "news" items?

I've seen Fox news criticized like crazy on here but jeez....don't touch the NY Times....oh no....they're the Gods of media....

OK, so no more Fox news criticism will be allowed on here. From now on, if you don't like it, DON'T WATCH IT....right Suff?

lsbets
01-16-2006, 08:59 AM
Its kind of funny PA - to them, there's nothing wrong with "Fox News sucks" without examples, but when there is a specific example of the most liberal newpaper in the country screwing up - now that is something you can't talk about. :rolleyes:

Tom
01-16-2006, 09:06 AM
word have meanings :MULTIPLE ONES usually but his one is fairly obvious when used correctly:Missile
From Wikipedia,
A missile (CE pronunciation: /'mɪsaɪl/; AmE: /'mɪsl/) is, in general, a projectile—that is, something thrown or otherwise propelled. Missiles can range from a rock thrown from a slingshot, through a crossbow or ballista bolt, to a Minuteman III intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) with multiple nuclear warheads.

In another thread, you set me straight for pondering whether you were quoting a song or hitting on Ljb. You told me in the speciifc context, it was obvious your were talking about lyrics.

In the context of the war, it was obvious that a missle and a shell were two different things.

PaceAdvantage
01-16-2006, 08:56 PM
In the context of the war, it was obvious that a missle and a shell were two different things.

Yep....

JustRalph
01-16-2006, 11:32 PM
In another thread, you set me straight for pondering whether you were quoting a song or hitting on Ljb. You told me in the speciifc context, it was obvious your were talking about lyrics.

In the context of the war, it was obvious that a missle and a shell were two different things.

Slam Dunk!

Secretariat
01-17-2006, 12:30 AM
Isn't the point of the NY Times article that many villagers were killed in an attack inside a soverign allied nation without the consent of that ally? Who cares if it was a missle or a shell? The issue is what are the results of this.
The next few days should sort it out. All we need now is Musharraf to abandon us as well. If we got Zawahari great, it was worth the risk. If we didn't and have lost Pakistani support, or Musharraf is pressured by a outraged Pakistani parliament and population then its another. In other words if we just killed innocent villagers and dismiss it as collaterla damage, that plays well at the WH, but I doubt it helps Musharraf maintain power.

We'll see, Missle or shell? Who really cares? The Pentagon has confirmed predators were used and people died.

boxcar
01-17-2006, 12:32 AM
Its kind of funny PA - to them, there's nothing wrong with "Fox News sucks" without examples, but when there is a specific example of the most liberal newpaper in the country screwing up - now that is something you can't talk about. :rolleyes:

While on the subject of Fox and N.Y Slimes, I'm sure Foxy enjoyed reporting today that the NY Slimes removed the "missile" photo from their website today.
I guess even the Slimes had a tiny bit of shame left in it.

Gotta love it...

Boxcar

NoDayJob
01-17-2006, 01:12 AM
While on the subject of Fox and N.Y Slimes, I'm sure Foxy enjoyed reporting today that the NY Slimes removed the "missile" photo from their website today.
I guess even the Slimes had a tiny bit of shame left in it.

Gotta love it...

Boxcar

:D "Slimes", Yea, verily yea... :D

PaceAdvantage
01-17-2006, 03:02 AM
Isn't the point of the NY Times article that many villagers were killed in an attack inside a soverign allied nation without the consent of that ally? Who cares if it was a missle or a shell? The issue is what are the results of this.

Yes, who cares about accurate reporting. I'll remember that the next time you noodniks slam Fox news....someone bookmark this post for me, will ya?

JustRalph
01-17-2006, 06:35 AM
Isn't the point of the NY Times article that many villagers were killed in an attack inside a soverign allied nation without the consent of that ally? Who cares if it was a missle or a shell? The issue is what are the results of this. The next few days should sort it out. All we need now is Musharraf to abandon us as well. If we got Zawahari great, it was worth the risk. If we didn't and have lost Pakistani support, or Musharraf is pressured by a outraged Pakistani parliament and population then its another. In other words if we just killed innocent villagers and dismiss it as collaterla damage, that plays well at the WH, but I doubt it helps Musharraf maintain power.

We'll see, Missle or shell? Who really cares? The Pentagon has confirmed predators were used and people died.

If you are inviting a terrorist to dinner.............you may want to expect the appetizer would be ....................a hellfire missile................!!!! Remember, you are either with us.........or against us.............which side do you think they were on Sec? Rock and Roll!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.redstone.army.mil/history/archives/missiles/hellfire_04.jpg

Tom
01-17-2006, 08:57 AM
Isn't the point of the NY Times article that many villagers were killed in an attack inside a soverign allied nation without the consent of that ally? Who cares if it was a missle or a shell? The issue is what are the results of this.
The next few days should sort it out. All we need now is Musharraf to abandon us as well. If we got Zawahari great, it was worth the risk. If we didn't and have lost Pakistani support, or Musharraf is pressured by a outraged Pakistani parliament and population then its another. In other words if we just killed innocent villagers and dismiss it as collaterla damage, that plays well at the WH, but I doubt it helps Musharraf maintain power.

We'll see, Missle or shell? Who really cares? The Pentagon has confirmed predators were used and people died.

As Ralph pointed out, if you invitye a terrorist to dinner.......hellfire missles!:lol: And you say if we got him great, it was worth the risk! Then, you go on to cry the downside if we didn't! For God's sake man, if it was worth the risk, it was WORTH THE RISK! End of story.

Secretariat
01-17-2006, 01:42 PM
Yes, who cares about accurate reporting. I'll remember that the next time you noodniks slam Fox news....someone bookmark this post for me, will ya?

The story isn't about whether it was a missle or a shell, or whatever. The story is about (1) was Zawahari killed (2) was Pakistan informed before we attacked their soil. Period. End of Story. You're missing what's happening for the trivia.

As to was it worth the risk? How can anyone not ask this question after we invaded Iraq on bad intelligence? You're damn sure before you do something of this magnitude. For God's sake, stupidty and poor intelligence got us into this mess...we don't need more of it.

boxcar
01-17-2006, 01:49 PM
If you are inviting a terrorist to dinner.............you may want to expect the appetizer would be ....................a hellfire missile................!!!! Remember, you are either with us.........or against us.............which side do you think they were on Sec? Rock and Roll!!!!!!!!!!


:lol: :lol: Couldn't have said it better. If you dine with devil better be prepared to roast over the fire and become part of the menu.

Boxcar

lsbets
01-17-2006, 02:05 PM
The story isn't about whether it was a missle or a shell, or whatever. The story is about (1) was Zawahari killed (2) was Pakistan informed before we attacked their soil. Period. End of Story. You're missing what's happening for the trivia.

As to was it worth the risk? How can anyone not ask this question after we invaded Iraq on bad intelligence? You're damn sure before you do something of this magnitude. For God's sake, stupidty and poor intelligence got us into this mess...we don't need more of it.

If you think Musharef didn't know of and approve of the attack before it happenned, you're nuts.

BTW - I seem to recall you advocating us taking military action in Pakistan no matter what they felt about it. Why the seeming flip flop?

Tom
01-17-2006, 02:32 PM
As to was it worth the risk? How can anyone not ask this question after we invaded Iraq on bad intelligence? You're damn sure before you do something of this magnitude. For God's sake, stupidty and poor intelligence got us into this mess...we don't need more of it.

I was refering to YOUR post:

"The next few days should sort it out. All we need now is Musharraf to abandon us as well. If we got Zawahari great, it was worth the risk."

If it was worth the risk if we got him, it must also be worth the risk if we didn't. Risk assumes neither outcome is certain. You are willing to accept failure as well as success. And where did you get the idea that stupidity and poor intelligence came into play here? By acknowledging the risk factor, you acknowledge he might not be there but if he is, the reward offsets the consequences of failure. But at least we got some of his dinner guests!

Suff
01-19-2006, 08:05 PM
Seriously, don't you think when we are at war they can hire someone with a military background and say "Hey, tell us what this #### is before we publish it." Wouldn't that be somewhat important for the supposedly most prestigious paper in the world?

They absolutely should have experienced Military on Board for Quailty control issues.

This Photo was taken and distributed by someone other than the NY times.

Poor leadership in the Newsroom without a doubt. They should be triple checking facts on a story of this magnitude. After all, dropping weaponary into a soviern Country like Pakistan is no small Potatos

Suff
01-19-2006, 08:12 PM
What the heck is the point of your post? ?

Like I said earlier in the week. Look at all news with skeptisism. I don't care if its the NY Times, Al Jazzeera, FOX or anyone else.

I don't read anything and take it as face value. You live in NY. If you were to take every article about the War, or National Poltics out of it, it still is a great paper. The best Buck you can spend. Especially if your getting on a plane or train. They give alot of good science & Health and other information.

I like the Times.

This error was Juvenile. They easily and should have fact checked much better. Its a common tool of the enemy to "stage" photo's following every attack.

As a Global news source, the NYTimes knows this. No excuse for running the Photo with that Caption.

Secretariat
01-19-2006, 08:55 PM
If you think Musharef didn't know of and approve of the attack before it happenned, you're nuts.

BTW - I seem to recall you advocating us taking military action in Pakistan no matter what they felt about it. Why the seeming flip flop?

There's no flip flop. I do advocate the use of military action in Pakistan, but if we're going to be "allies" with the country the sound thing to do is tell their leader we intend to bomb them.

The Prime Minster of Pakistan has said there was no warning. Musharaaf has said nothing which is contrary to your assertion.

If you read my post I am not against launching predators on Pakistan. I never have been. I am against arbitrarily killing innocent people due to lack of good intelligence again. I'm not a fan of killing based on bad intelligence. in the case of Zawahari, it now appears we didn't get him meaning the intelligence was NOT accurate. Hopefully, we did get this guy Marsi I beleive. But if we did get Al Queda that is damn fortunate and a great thing, especially if lieu of the fact that we did not get Zawahari which currently it appears we did not.

At this time there is still a lot of questions out there. The time to be invading Pakistan's border should have occurred 4 years ago. Better late than never, but My God, get it right this time, and let's avoid killing people based on bad intel.

rastajenk
01-20-2006, 12:33 AM
Just another entry in the Fake But Accurate logbook that is the NY Times. After they've been caught so many times, how can anyone take anything they print at face value?

Suff
01-20-2006, 10:35 PM
Just another entry in the Fake But Accurate logbook that is the NY Times. After they've been caught so many times, how can anyone take anything they print at face value?

All big media oulets are guilty of perverting what should be told. That is why I love Blogs and alternative media. It digs deep into storys and gives a differnet perspective and frequently more facts.

I see Dick Cheney all over Fox this week. I did not hear one single question about his Chief of Staff getting indicted in a CIA leak probe? Instead he got softballs like......."what do you think of Hilary Clintons and Al Gore's comments"
He got numerous other setup questions as well.

My point to anyone is that if you have highspeed internet, and 15 minutes, you should be checking international and alternate opinions on subjects that interest you.

People that read FOX, NewsMax and Freerepublic are as guilty as those that read only DailyKos, NYTIMES and AirAmerica.

I've been a registered user of NewsMax for 3 years or more. I get e-mails from them almost on daily Basis. They will send me a NewsMax News Flash at 1:00 0clock and at 2 Oclock send me a solicittation for a Campaign contribution for a Republican Canditate. Its a Conservative publication to the extreme......but I see many people use thier Material in Off Topic as Gospel.

I'm for taking in news slowly and cautiously.