W Va indefinitely bans Kentucky and Maryland shippers

[GlenninOhio]

http://drf.com/news/article/71452.html

Another nail in the coffin for the quality of winter racing at W Va tracks.

Saturday's Mnr card (pre-shipper ban) had AE's out the ying-yang for their $5,000 claimers, while neither their N1X and nor their $30,000 open claimer for fillies and mares got carded.

[jotb]

http://drf.com/news/article/71452.html

Another nail in the coffin for the quality of winter racing at W Va tracks.

Saturday's Mnr card (pre-shipper ban) had AE's out the ying-yang for their $5,000 claimers, while neither their N1X and nor their $30,000 open claimer for fillies and mares got carded.

Hello:

The ban also includes any horses that are on the farms in Maryland. If anyone has run a horse in Maryland on and after DEC 15 they will not be able to run at any of the West Virginia tracks. If someone ran a horse in Maryland and shipped back to a farm say in Virginia, then every horse in that barn on that farm will not be able to enter at Charles Town. If you think the races at CT were weak, can you imagine what they will be like now until this ban is lifted.

Joe

[GlenninOhio]

Thanks, Joe.

By my reasoning, there is only one constituency that benefits from this over reaction and that's the local horsemen at Mnr and CT who won't have to run against their toughest competition - shippers from KY and Md. Probably doesn't require Sherlock Holmes to conclude that this is who is behind the ban.

Of course, this thought process is short-sighted, because if they antagonize their shippers enough to put a major dent in this activity - and they already do a great job of this with their inferior track management and maintenance that leads to way too many winter cancellations and shortened cards - the already tenuous quality of racing at these tracks will be permanently damaged. The result will be significantly less handle and guess who will suffer the most from that?

[DerbyTrail]

Thanks, Joe.

By my reasoning, there is only one constituency that benefits from this over reaction and that's the local horsemen at Mnr and CT who won't have to run against their toughest competition - shippers from KY and Md. Probably doesn't require Sherlock Holmes to conclude that this is who is behind the ban.

Of course, this thought process is short-sighted, because if they antagonize their shippers enough to put a major dent in this activity - and they already do a great job of this with their inferior track management and maintenance that leads to way too many winter cancellations and shortened cards - the already tenuous quality of racing at these tracks will be permanently damaged. The result will be significantly less handle and guess who will suffer the most from that?

If you want to criticize W. VA for the poor track conditions, that's one thing.. But to call the state's exclusion of potenially EH infected horses an "over-reaction" is as oafish as can be. You can't possibly be a horse owner to make that comment.

And even your reference to the track condition situation shows where your self-interested focus lies. Wouldn't the first concern over the track condition be the health and safety of the animals and riders? No... not according to you. You're just worried about cancelled or shortened cards.

If I'm wrong, I'm sorry and feel free to correct me. But as a horse owner (NY-bred and based), I applaud W. VA for taking a pro-active approach to a situation that is worsening and expanding by the day. Imagine your own horse paralyzed and dying and maybe you'll comprehend the rationale.

[Buddha]

Probably doesn't require Sherlock Holmes to conclude that this is who is behind the ban.

The result will be significantly less handle and guess who will suffer the most from that?

Well the WV Racing Commission was behind the ban, and as DerbyTrail said, it is an effort to protect the spread of a very dangerous and contagious disease among the horses. Sure, the horsemen will be happy that they won't have to deal with the likes of Bernie Flint for a while since almost all, if not all of his stock is in KY, but that doesnt mean that they were behind it.

And to your statement about handle, MNR has 9 races carded on Saturday with 10 horses in 8 of them. KY horses dont increase handle, full races and competitve races increase handle. I doubt there is a significant drop to the handle. People will play just because of the full fields. Don't know what CT entries are like, but if they are filling the fields, the bettors will come.

[GlenninOhio]

You make some good points, Buddha.

But I'll offer counter-points in two areas:

1. Full fields and competitive races will only go so far if 90%+ are at the $5,000 claiming level. In my opinion, Mnr handle has benefited because the slots have created the purse money to card selected races for much better stock. And it's a fact that the best of the better stock ships in. Eliminate this and you're on your way back to being Waterford Park.

2. Somehow Ohio and Pennsylvania have not seen fit to ban Kentucky shippers, dealing with it instead on a horse by horse basis. Do they have less concern for their home racing stock?

[Buddha]

You make some good points, Buddha.

But I'll offer counter-points in two areas:

1. Full fields and competitive races will only go so far if 90%+ are at the $5,000 claiming level. In my opinion, Mnr handle has benefited because the slots have created the purse money to card selected races for much better stock. And it's a fact that the best of the better stock ships in. Eliminate this and you're on your way back to being Waterford Park.

2. Somehow Ohio and Pennsylvania have not seen fit to ban Kentucky shippers, dealing with it instead on a horse by horse basis. Do they have less concern for their home racing stock?

1. We will see Saturday about the handle. I tend to think that it wont drop much. On the days the were running 9 race cards, i think avg handle was around 1-1.5 mil. not sure on specifics, but we will see what they do saturday.

2. I am not going to say that OH or PA have less concern for their horses, but this isnt anything new with WV. When they had the strangles or some other outbreak this summer, WV banned the DEL horses, and the like, and that lasted a couple weeks, and then allowed them when they were able to pass a vet test.

[jotb]

[QUOTE=DerbyTrail]If you want to criticize W. VA for the poor track conditions, that's one thing.. But to call the state's exclusion of potenially EH infected horses an "over-reaction" is as oafish as can be. You can't possibly be a horse owner to make that comment.

And even your reference to the track condition situation shows where your self-interested focus lies. Wouldn't the first concern over the track condition be the health and safety of the animals and riders? No... not according to you. You're just worried about cancelled or shortened cards.

If I'm wrong, I'm sorry and feel free to correct me. But as a horse owner (NY-bred and based), I applaud W. VA for taking a pro-active approach to a situation that is worsening and expanding by the day. Imagine your own horse paralyzed and dying and maybe you'll comprehend the rationale.

Hello:

You are correct about the health and safety issue but I think West Virginia should have shut down completely until the ban is lifted because this will not work. Say a horse raced in Maryland late Dec. (the ban was for horses that ran on or after Dec 15) and is stabled at CT. The horse ships back to CT after the race and put back in the same stall with the rest of the horses in that barn. A couple of days later the horse needs to go to the pool barn with "x" amount of horses. How is the commision looking out for the safety of the other horses on the grounds? Do you have any idea how many horses from CT have run in Maryland since Dec 15th? If horses stabled in Maryland (Laurel, Pim, and other facilities such as Fair Hill) can't run in CT then explain to me why CT will allow a trainer to enter a horse stabled at CT with a horse in the next stall that ran in Maryland after the 15th of Dec? I'm sure CT officials are trying to get these horses off the grounds that ran in Maryland but don't you think by now some of these horses could already be infected? I heard from a good source the incubation period is up to 14 days but then I also heard 1 month and even 5 months. I believe the commision had good intentions but you can't stop some people from running their stock and allow others to enter and run. They are not properly taking care of this situation.

Joe

[GlenninOhio]

If you want to criticize W. VA for the poor track conditions, that's one thing.. But to call the state's exclusion of potenially EH infected horses an "over-reaction" is as oafish as can be. You can't possibly be a horse owner to make that comment.

And even your reference to the track condition situation shows where your self-interested focus lies. Wouldn't the first concern over the track condition be the health and safety of the animals and riders? No... not according to you. You're just worried about cancelled or shortened cards.

If I'm wrong, I'm sorry and feel free to correct me. But as a horse owner (NY-bred and based), I applaud W. VA for taking a pro-active approach to a situation that is worsening and expanding by the day. Imagine your own horse paralyzed and dying and maybe you'll comprehend the rationale.


So I guess the states of Ohio and Pennsylvania are "oafish" as well for allowing Kentucky horses to ship in with the appropriate health certificates and vaccinations?

As for the track condition, poor track maintenance and their insistence on racing in the evenings in the winter is what creates much of the dangerous conditions that cause excessive cancellations. By no means am I advocating racing under unsafe conditions.

(I apologize to the board for the double posting.)

[Buddha]

1. We will see Saturday about the handle. I tend to think that it wont drop much. On the days the were running 9 race cards, i think avg handle was around 1-1.5 mil. not sure on specifics, but we will see what they do saturday.

1.46 mil. not a bad day :)

also, as to not taking KY horses, a trainer friend of mine said they wouldnt even let him bring a horse to a farm from KY with the herpes yet, and he already has the foal papers up here, so I dont know what is going on down there unless the horse that he wanted is in one of the quarantined barns

[GlenninOhio]

1.46 mil. not a bad day :)


Plus no cards have been canceled yet in 2006! :D

A serious question, Buddha:

Mnr handle last night dropped significantly in 7-8-9 races from those earlier in the card.

Is this typical?

If so, what's for them to lose by starting at, say, 5:00 or 5:30 pm instead of 7:00?

IMO, this would reduce cancellations and short cards in the winter.

[Buddha]

Plus no cards have been canceled yet in 2006! :D

A serious question, Buddha:

Mnr handle last night dropped significantly in 7-8-9 races from those earlier in the card.

Is this typical?

If so, what's for them to lose by starting at, say, 5:00 or 5:30 pm instead of 7:00?

IMO, this would reduce cancellations and short cards in the winter.

I think I seem to have seen that in the past before. It seems that later in the night the handle isnt quite as much. I dont know if that has to do with people not staying up and betting it or just a lack of interest in the later races. I would have to check older charts to see if that is the case though.

You make a valid point. I dont know why they don't move the winter time posts up to 4:30 or 5:00 or so to help being able to run more cards and also possibly getting more money from simulcast bettors.

Another other than the post time that I would like to see changed is the betting menu. I am sick of seeing 2 picks 3s, 2 doubles, and 2 superfectas. IMO, I would like to see more pick 3s. If you dont want to combine it in races with the double, start on race 2, and roll till the 3rd from last race, the last of which you could have one. Granted there would be less money in each pool, but you could better choose which ones to play. Also, I wouldnt mind seeing a pick 4 in the mix. I am not a superfecta bettor, but I would think that with a bunch of 10 horse fields, others would like to see more than 2 superfecta offerings during the nights card.