Most ridiculous item of the day....

[PaceAdvantage]

Stronach proposes partnership for New York racing (http://thoroughbredtimes.com/todaysnews/newsview.asp?recno=59809&subsec=1)
While visiting Gulfstream Park on Saturday, Magna Entertainment Chief Executive Officer Frank Stronach reiterated that he would like to play a "constructive" role in New York racing, saying he would welcome working as a partner to invest and operate the New York Racing Association. Thoroughbred Times (http://thoroughbredtimes.com/todaysnews/newsview.asp?recno=59809&subsec=1)

New York....not a small state nor a poor state by any means. Why in the world would we want these two entities (Magna and CD) teaming up and trying to tell us what would be BEST for our racing product?

In my opinion, NEITHER entity has YET to distinguish themselves in the area of racetrack ownership, despite having a MULTITUDE of chances in which to shine brightly. What makes these two so damn special that they think they can just waltz in here and "save the day?"

When you take into account all of the racetracks they've acquired over the years, what stellar success stories can they display on their resume?

Gulfstream Park you say? The jury is certainly still out on whether or not something out of the ordinary will happen there after all is said and done. And isn't it a bit odd that Gulfstream is the only track that pops into mind as a venue with a chance at becoming something special? Exactly how many tracks have these two companies acquired over the last decade?

Come on New York! Wake up and take matters into your own hands. Surely we have enough HOME GROWN interest and HOME GROWN talent (not to mention home grown wealth) to make a run at controlling the future of racing in New York without having to resort to a couple of outsiders who between them haven't accomplished a whole hell of a lot when it comes to drastically improving the racing product.

Screw the politicians and screw the outsiders. We need people who genuinely understand and more importantly truly LOVE racing in NEW YORK. It's not too late.

[DJofSD]

PA, where's Rudy?

[toetoe]

Trump, even.

[mainardi]

WELCOME TO THEIR WORLD... just don't forget to bring your money. :(

Magna and CDSN are just the latest, and they're no different than any other corporation looking to buy and sell assets for their own profit. Before them, it was Ladbroke (a British betting house) that tried to shoehorn their way in. They only got into the game because they saw the future of simulcasting and (more importantly) the slots/cards. When I lived in Detroit (okay, it was the suburbs ;) ), they tried to hang on to Detroit Race Course until they got what they wanted.

When the state said "up yours" to expanded simulcasting and slots, Ladbroke shuttered the track and sold it to developers, and just like that, live racing for thoroughbreds was jettisoned to Muskegon (BF-Egypt). Then Magna bought that track, and has seemingly leveraged a return to the Detroit area... with a potential tie-in to an Indian casino. It's all about the green. :blush:

Just remember, if places like Santa Anita and Hollywood Park can be traded on the open market, the NYRA tracks are just as vulnerable. Not to sound too callous, but maybe selling off one (or all) of the NYRA big-3 is better than watching them all crumble before your very eyes.

Besides, the bigger problems have little to do with who owns a track. It's how they operate them, and methinks the days of full fields of quality horses has become a thing of the past... how sad.

[toetoe]

Muskegon as in Great Lakes Downs? :jump: That sounds like a Perry White ejaculation, or epithet even. Heavens to Mergatroid.

[Dr. Carter]

I dont understand why it is so important to some people that a NY connection runs NYRA or what ever racing structure is left. A lesson to be learned about supposedly hometown connections should be taken from the Roosevelt Raceway situation. Before the Meadowlands, Roosevelt was the number one harness track in the country. Attendance was solid, handle was good and the quality of horses and trainers was the best. However when the track went up for sale, surely to be persued by land developers because of the prime location, a group of NY harness "horsemen" got together to buy the property, using some shady financing, under the premise that NY horsemen would always keep the track open and out of the hands of developers. Well the group only kept the track open a few meets and promptly sold it to the same developers for a nice profit. So much for hometown connections.
The truth is that this about money. Not the sancity of NY racing. Money. I dont think that Magna/CD/??? would be a good situation because of the power struggles that would occur under that structure. But if it came down to the state of NY running the place, let me be the first to welcome Frank and Mr. Meekers replacement.

[garyoz]

Trump, even.

Yeah, he has only had two bankrupt casinos (or is it 3?). He'd be much worse than Frankie. Imagine Trump getting his hands on Saratoga?

I think the major problem with Magna is that their vision for the industry is askew, not really their intentions. But, I'd bet that some consortium of racing interests and casino companies end up with the NYRA franchise. Probably depends on who can bribe the most politicians.

[BIG49010]

I've been saying for years, this industry needs to consolidate, to maybe 3 or 4 tracks. The best racing survives and close the Great Lakes of the world.

I know in Chicago, because I lived through it the tracks wanted inter-track wagering from the state, that would cure the problems. Wrong!

Then they wanted full card simulcasting, that would cure the problems.
Not!

Now they want slots, that will cure the problems! The Governers smarter than that.

Next they will want prositution, that will cure the problems! When they all have slots!

Next they will want crack sales at the race track that will cure the problems!

These idoits don't deserve anything, join the rest of the world and if your product stinks you go broke like Sportsmans, and hopefully Hawthorne and out of business and the consolidation takes place.

Stronach needs to quit throwing his weight around and cater to the fans.
NYRA can cure it own problems, send out your signal to anyone that wants to bet it, they can learn that from Stronach, but then maybe he forgot that one. A year ago he wasn't going to send his signal to some wagering hubs, he finally conceded he was wrong. He is doing it again in Europe according to a friend of mine, they don't get Gulfsteam on the TV anymore, he shouldn't be able to do this, put your product out there and let the fans decide, we are the customers, the handle be the votes!

[the little guy]

It's just more posturing. Who cares what Frank says. The people at Magna certainly don't....why should we?

[PaceAdvantage]

But if it came down to the state of NY running the place, let me be the first to welcome Frank and Mr. Meekers replacement.

Shudder.....who said anything about NY State running the place?? Did you not see my "screw the politicians" comment? LOL

Guys like Charlie Hayward, Bill Nader and Barry Schwartz should be running NY racing. But, they should be running without the current restrictions that are in place! NY racing has to bow before the state in order to get even the smallest of tasks accomplished.

We need NY business guys who love racing to take complete control. I agree with everyone else that the structure of NY racing must change, but that doesn't mean the people running the show, like Hayward and Nader, need to be thrown out with the bathwater in order to make way for Stronach, Meeker and their band of merry men and women.

Now there's a thought that really makes me shudder....

[the little guy]

Meeker is retiring pretty soon ( within a year I think ).

[BIG49010]

If you look at the stocks of Magna Ent. and Churchill, you see these guys are no Bill Gates, and you also see your pockets are being picketed. :(

[GeTydOn]

Do contracts, etc always go to the highest bidder no matter what? If so how can NYRA compete with anyone in the bidding process? And a CD/Magna combination is stronger than either on its own. Maybe they figure just win the bid now and figure the details later. Can't see how CD/Magna running NY racing would be a marriage made in heaven.

[Dr. Carter]

PA,
I dont think that Hayward or Nader are the answer. Nader is a publicist and Hayward a publisher. They could probably write a good book about this whole mess and do fine with that but they are far from stars. Nice guys that are trying under impossible circumstances but a little overmatched. Schwartz aint coming back. You need someone strong with some vision that isn't afraid to tell Spitzer where to stick it, someone who can provide a little leverage and maybe isn't worried about being politically correct. Or you need someone who is going to be able to operate in cahoots with the political sharks and get what is needed by hook or crook. You need an operator with capital and the desire to make a lot of money. The "for the love of the game" crap is romantic but not realistic when you are throwing numbers around in the billions. The current system is screwed up but the next one put into place by the politicians could be worse. They could put themselves in charge. Dont think it will happen? Think again. Wait until Pataki is out of the picture. Then you'll see Silver strike into action with his buddy Spitzer as governor. Hell he has delayed naming him members to the joke committee for months.
I want the same thing that you do, viable, healthy, quality racing in NY. I'm not thrilled with Magna or Churchill or just about any other organization that runs tracks (except maybe Keeneland). But if casinos companies or the state wind up in charge (the 2 most logical conclusions IMO) you'll be begging for Maghill.

[the little guy]

" Nader is a publicist "???

You make this statement, as though it has some validity, but I would love to hear some back-up on this claim.

Bill Nader is credited as being the person responsible for uncovering the BC Pick-6 scandal and if it was not for him there is a very strong likelihood the culprits would have been paid.

Bill Nader is as respected a racing executive as there is in the country, and with a little research on your part, assuming you know some people in the industry, you could confirm this.

I'm not getting back into the whole NYRA/franchise debate, as it's meaningless at this point, but I am not going to let the Nader comment ooze by.

[Suff]

" Nader is a publicist "???

.

Publicist isn't a bad thing or word. It's accurate to some degree as he did work as a Publicist for awhile, and prior to Joining NYRA he was Public Relations Director at Rockingham Park.

He's a senior level racing executive now, but his background is Publicity.

[the little guy]

I didn't say it was a bad thing...it's just not what he is at this point in his career nor how he's perceived and respected in the industry.

Larry Bird was a garbage man not long before coming to the Celtics. It's an admirable profession, certainly a needed one, but hardly how he's remembered.

[Dr. Carter]

I didn't say it was a bad thing...it's just not what he is at this point in his career nor how he's perceived and respected in the industry.

Larry Bird was a garbage man not long before coming to the Celtics. It's an admirable profession, certainly a needed one, but hardly how he's remembered.



Larry Bird did not need the experience as a garbage man to be a hall of fame basketball player but Bill Nader certainly could use a little more experience other than being a PR guy if he is going to lead a billion dollar business through the minefield of NY politics.

[toetoe]

Doc,

You're making 'guy's point for him. Bird would need skills other than the garbaginous ones, and he developed those skills. Can Nader rise to the challenge? Trackman says take any price. If Bill Kyne's not available, Nader's yer man.

[the little guy]

Bill Nader has a huge amount of experience in the industry, much of it spent as a top official at NYRA, thus your comments only display a lack of knowledge about him.

Who are the more qualified racing executives you know of?

[Suff]

My extremely limited knowledge of Naders skills forbades an evaluation worthy of any merit.

I have the impression running NYRA is like dodging a Tsnumia. He's gotta love it because I doubt if there is much "pure joy" in occasionally drowning in a wave of uncontrolable force. (e.g. Politics, Personality, Dinny Phipps, New York on the regular). All those things have big teeth.

My few brief encounters with him, coupled with commentary from people that know him fairly well allow me to say "Good to Very Good"

[Dr. Carter]

What has Bill done that is so noteworthy with the exception of being the only NYRA executive leftover from their "golden years"? You give the pick 6 example which is fine but if he is so qualified what are his other great moments? I'm not saying that he is not qualified to do his job at NYRA, whatever that may be, what I'm saying is that I don't think that he is the guy along with Charlie to lead NY racing into the next stage. On his watch there have been scandal after scandal, problem after problem. Come on would you give your company worth a billion dollars to those two guys?

[toetoe]

Doc,

Assuming a worst case version of Bill Nader, which would you prefer in a match race, Say Florida Sandy on his last legs, or an entry of Jacques Who and Zippy Chippy?

[the little guy]

I can't imagine anybody I would want in a position of power more than Bill Nader. I also believe if NYRA folded tomorrow it would take the exact amount of time it takes for a phone to ring for Bill to have another offer.

Citing examples is not easy, as the minutia of why someone does a good job isn't particularly describable, but I have mentioned things here at different times that he has been the catalyst behind. To suggest there has been " scandal after scandal " during his supposed watch is at best naive and at worst unfair, as Bill was not in charge of the racetrack during this time, Terry Meyocks and Kenny Noe were, and no problems have emerged from the department that he ran.

I have no idea who you might know in the industry, but you mentioned Barry Schwartz in an earlier post, so perhaps you know him. If so, ask him about Bill, and I would be shocked if he had anything but positive things to say about him.

[Dr. Carter]

If Bill had no real authority or power except in his own department(PR) until Noe and Meyocks left, which was not that long ago then you have made my point for me.
I respect your opinion of the man. Personally I know and like him. I think that he does a great job in PR. Not to demean him but I dont see him as the point man of the future. Maybe the guy would get a job as soon as NYRA is finished but I'm sure it wont be running a major racetrack.

[the little guy]

He is not the NYRA PR man nor do I believe he has ever been. I think you need to get your facts straight.

Glen Mathis was in charge of the Press office during Bill's entire tenure at NYRA until his retirement in the past year.

[toetoe]

Doc,

By your logic, when one top dog retired or died, only a top dog from somewhere else would be qualified to step in, necessitating the closure of his previous place of employment. Where will the new top dogs come from?

[Dr. Carter]

If the people who were left were not the best man for the job then yeah go outside. If Pete Carroll quits USC to go to the pros would the 2nd in command likely get the job? Of course not, they need someone high profile. But there are exceptions like Larry Coker in Miami. Hayward is just a stopgap and Nader just puts out fires. Thats my opinion. Nothing more or less. In my opinion I have not seen anything from them that leads me to believe that they are the answer. Do I sit in meetings at NYRA? No, but I know enough to know that they are a rudderless ship with too many behind the scenes chiefs putting guys like Nader and Hayward out there to die on the vine. One problem that I think that those two guys have is that they constantly seem on the defensive. They are not proactive, just reactive. Dont scream about all the problems that we all know about. Do something to seperate yourself from all the noise.

Who knows maybe TLG is right, Nader may be the great racing executive we've been waiting for. But he hasn't shown it yet.

[Indulto]

PA,
New Yorkers aren’t the only people who don’t want to see Saratoga “Magna-tized” like SA and GP or sold to developers like HOL and BM.

As I understand it, the Saratoga group wants input primarily for economic as opposed to aesthetic reasons. They want 36 racing dates guaranteed, but do they care whether or not the traditional ambiance is maintained, or the best horses continue to show up?

It’s easy to say who/what one doesn’t want. It’s harder to specify what it is that any subsequent management should be doing with these facilities, and to find out who/where the political support for that vision can be located so that interest groups can be formed to contact and/or petition them.

Are Smith and FNYR definitely in the MAGNA and/or CDI camp? Does anybody know what visions of NY racing are entertained by Spitzer, Silver, Bloomberg, Clinton, Schumer, or any other powerful NY pols?

What could happen to Pataki’s plans in the event the new governor is a Dem or a Rep?

How likely is a “rescue” by a consortium of wealthy owners?

[rastajenk]

People talk like Spitzer being the next gov is a given. Is that really the case?

[Indulto]

Funny Cide unlikely for Donn By MIKE WELSCH 01/10/2006
http://www.drf.com/news/article/71454.html (http://www.drf.com/news/article/71454.html)

“. . .
"I'll listen and adjust. There are lots of things we will change," said Stronach. "I'm not sure we're doing the right things yet."

Stronach also discussed the possibility of offering night racing at Gulfstream Park in the future.

"Most normal people work during the day," said Stronach.
. . .”

Blogger, Left At The Gate responded, “What that makes those of you who work at night I’m not sure.”

[toetoe]

Most normal people play the ponies? Oh, sure. :faint: :)

[mainardi]

:D It'll kill live horse racing... all of the retirees won't be able to stay up late enough! :D

But it'd be good for simulcasting... if only more tracks would jump in to the latter part of the 20th century and put in lights! Geez, even Wrigley Field figured it out and put in those newfangled lights! :p