Which Software

[Tom]

Ok, thanks to George W, I am getting a check in the mail
soon. I want to spent it on something worthwhile and I have narrowed uit down to HTR or HSH.
HELP!
I read good things about both programs here ad elsewhere, but I have some questions....
1. What are "ants?"
2. In HSH, do you hook up to the internet while you are using it? I think I read something about current odds being used in the program?
3. Do you buy individual files for HSH or is there a package deal where youget so many tracks?
4. What kind of documentation do you get with each?
5. Can you pick your own pacelines?
6. What operating system do they run on? I think HTR is DOS-are there any problems running this on newer, faster machines?
7. What kind of a learning curve is there?
8. Is there a modeling function?
9. Are the data files able to be sent to a datbase, if so which ones?
10. HTR is free, but you need a monthly account-how does this work, month by month or yearly, or what? Can I start this and quit for a month later on and then come back?

Thanks for the input...I want to do my part to strengthen the economy with this check.

Tom

[Dick Schmidt]

Tom,

I'm not as expert as Dave, but he is busy with a new update so I'll try to answer your questions on HSH.

1) Ants is shorthand in the artificial intelligence community for AI that uses what is called a genetic algorithm to learn. They were first developed at MIT and many books have been written on them. Dave has tried several versions of them with so-so success to date, but has high hopes for his latest version.

2) You can play hooked up if you want to constantly update the odds, or you can use the program stand alone, either updating by hand or not using the odds.

3) Your choice.

4) With HSH the documentation is generally p-poor. The program has been in a state of flux for so long that the docs have fallen way behind. On the other hand, the HSH site is full of people ready and willing to help you. This does make the learning curve steeper than it really needs to be.

5) Yes, though much of the program does not use pacelines.

6) Windows 95, 98, ME, 2000. Faster the better, I use a 1,000 mhz machine.

7) see above. Besides that, this is a BIG program with many ways of going about winning. I doubt than any two users are doing exactly the same things.

8) No. HSH treats every race differently. It does have a Reports feature that more or less replaces the model by telling you what pacelines worked best in the past.

9) Yes, though due to contractual restraints, Dave will no longer be able to sell past data in a database after the first of the month. Exporting data to spreadsheets and database programs is easy.

10) No Idea about HTR. HSH allows for daily downloads or a monthly account for all the races.

Dick

[Tom]

Thanks for the reply-you were (as usual) very heplful.
I like the idea of handicapping with "ants!"
Tom

[GR1@HTR]

Tom,

I'll try to answer the HTR stuff...

4) Link below and newsletters pretty much cover it.
http://www.homebased2.com/km/dnl/htr.hlp

5) Yes you can pick your own pacelines or go with 5 other paceline options.

6) HTR DOS currently runs fine on Win98. A Windows version will be released soon and a bet a version will be make available in about 3 weeks.

7) There is a learning curve. But if you are familiar with Quirin Sytle figs, Brohammers MPH, Trainer Stats, Track bias, and just overall intermediate handicapping methods, you should do just fine.

8) Yes, you can model till you turn blue...Basically you can model win%/ROI for Win, Exacta, TRI on 5 pacelines, male or female, for claimers, maidens, allowance, stakes horses on the following factors. Win%/ROI for Win, Exacta, TRI on the following items:
MLO rank, HTR Consensus, K rating, Pscan, Power Rating, Class, Speed Figure, Probability %, Consistency, Jocky, Trainer, ACL, Velocity, Fr1, Fr2, Fr3, AP, EP, SP, FX, LP, and my running style.
The link below talks a little about HTR modeling
http://www.homebased2.com/km/pdf/HTRMonthlyReport-FEB2000.pdf

9) Yes, any one you want. This is one of my farorite things about HTR. I am a absolute dummy when it comes to computers. But the fine members at HTR have created querying tools that allow clueless guys like to test anything I want. If you want to know how maidens claimers dropping from MSW with the best turn time in the field do with 1st lasix with MLO>=5 who finished out of the money last out, you can do it.... Heck even had my girlfriend running queries for a while.

10) Come and go as you please for $119 a month. No down payment or long term commitments. One of the most valuable things about collecting all the data is that you can use it for your database down the road.

On a side note just want to let you know that Ken Massa, of HTR is one of the most helpful, ethical, hardest working, and legitimate people in the business. In addition to providing data to the HTR users, he has many racebook and casino clients. He provides data to Vegas racebooks such as the Bellagio, Mirage, Treasure Island, MGM Grand and the Stardust to name the few. There are also a number of full time players he has written custom programs for that do this for a living. Good luck with your decision.

[JimG]

I just wanted to say...I've used HTR and begun using HSH. I believe they are both fine software programs and I also feel Ken Massa (HTR developer) and Dave Schwartz (HSH developer) are honest, ethical, hard working individuals. It is great to have 2 fine software programs like these to choose from. Best of luck whichever way you go.

Jim

[cato]

JImG: I am, like the rest of us, looking for a program that fits my style and thought process...

YOu say you used HTR and just started using HSH. Which means I assume you purchased HSH. Why did you switch from HTR?

Since HTR is free and HSH is not I assume that if all things were equal you would have stayed with HTR?

Give us the analysis of both... (please)

Take care,

Cato

[JimG]

Cato:

I did recently purchase HSH. Only been playing with for a few days so it is too soon for me to give any kind of review. It is very encompassing and my initial thoughts are positive. On the negative side, the documentation is poor. On the positive side, help from Dave Schwartz and other members is excellent.

HTR is a very good program that lends itself to extensive database analysis (which I am not into). The pace numbers seem as good or better than anything I have tried before and the support by Ken Massa is first rate. It produces an oddsline that is pretty accurate although noone can achieve the oddsline of the general public. The data is expensive if you only play occasionally or only 1 or 2tracks but you cannot beat the price of the software.

I doubt that I answered your questions but perhaps folks who have used HSH extensively could give you a review.

Jim

I am not looking for a "black box" for handicapping anymore, just something that can supplement my style of handicapping.

[andicap]

Tom,
I didn't realize you were the old "Bulldog" from the BRIS board days. Little Joe is still around at a1handicapper.com selling a program and Aodds is basically out of business (remember "Eddie," who won every race using Aodds?).

I trialed HTR for two weeks last year and liked it, just don't bet enough to justify spending $100 a month in addition to a DRF or BRIS form. I need a hard copy form in front of me, can't just use PPs from a program.

andicap

[Tom]

Originally posted by andicap
Tom,
I didn't realize you were the old "Bulldog" from the BRIS board days


Those were some fun days on that board. I wonder if Eddie has lost his first race yet?
What was your old handle on BRIS? They still have the board, from DOS, but no posts in a long time.

Still talk to Little Joe occasionally-I have his program and hit some nice longshots with it - $44 place the other night and a $60 winner over the weekend.
I signed up with HT this week and just started. going to try it for a few months, but am still considering looking into HSH when I get my tax rebate. I think HTR looks pretty good. Caught some very nice horse at Hol on day 1 - an I wasn't even using most of the program-jsut the list of longshot possiblilities. I've been doin gmuch figure-making and not enough handicapping-got to change that before I burn out.

I sill have a lot of print out posts somewhere-got to look for them this weekend.
Take care,
Bulldog

[andicap]

I didn't post much and it was many beers ago so I can't even remember :)
Just enjoyed reading the Sartin debates, LJ and the rest.
BTW, have you ever gone over to the Randy Giles site?

andicap

[Tom]

Yes- I have downloaded everything they have there. I am using his models for running style in my play and doing quite well (ie, an EP horse must be a 2-4 or a 4-2,
an E horse must be a 1-X or 2-X).
Lots of good ideas there. Glad to hear he is coming back.
Bulldog (Tom)

[andicap]

Bulldog,
I've never used the models, just the fast pace and pace pressure gauge.
Do you model the entire field or just your contenders or what??

Thanks

andy

[Tom]

Originally posted by andicap
Bulldog,
I've never used the models, just the fast pace and pace pressure gauge.
Do you model the entire field or just your contenders or what??

Thanks

andy

I used rank the whole filed, then throw out anything not ranked at least a 3

4-4 Out
3-1 Ok
5-3 Ok
1-5 Ok
2-2 Ok

New rankings:

E 3-1 No bet
EP 4-3 No Bet
P 1-4 Possible
P 2-2 Possible

What I do now, thanks to Dave Schwartz, is to use speed figs, best of last two, and use the tops ranked in the front half plus one (4 in a 7 horse field, 6 in a 10 horse, etc.) and use those ranking with no other modifications.
Tom

[andicap]

Thanks, I'll try it. You know, I'd love to spend a day at the races with you -- our philosophies on pace are very similar (even if our politics are not!).
Give me a holler if you ever make it to southern New York state.



andicap

[Tom]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by andicap
[B]Thanks, I'll try it. You know, I'd love to spend a day at the races with you -- our philosophies on pace are very similar (even if our politics are not!).
Give me a holler if you ever make it to southern New York state.

I would love to go to Belmont some day. I have been to
Saratoga, but not for the last years. It looks like we will getting to Bet NYRA and other tracks regulary in this area soon-I will be following Bel a lot closer now.
I never talk politics at the track-too much important stuff going on for that!
Tom