Miners

[Hammerhead]

Wow NewsPaper Headlines say 12 alive TV says 12 Dead 1 survivor. Unbeleivable the way information is put out by the media. to these family members.

[Bobby]

Yea I was gonna try to change my post last nite. The TV was saying 12 ALIVE. And railcar man dead.

Then wake up this morning. TV says just 1 alive and in ICU. What a double tragedy.

Worse than the bush-gore thing.

[lsbets]

railcar man? I'm sure that's the way his family wants to hear him referred to.

worse than the bush-gore thing? You really are a tasteless idiot, aren't you?

[JustRalph]

Worse than the bush-gore thing.

What the hell does that mean?

[Bobby]

What the hell does that mean?


How the media reported it wrong without confirming the facts. On TV last nite saying miracles had taken place. Might should confirm that don't you think??? :)

Reported Gore won FL. He didn't. Said 12 miners alive. 12 dead. I don't care what BROWARD COUNTY said just like I don't care what the MINE CO said. MEDIA screwed up.

[Bobby]

railcar man? I'm sure that's the way his family wants to hear him referred to.


Your empathy really inspires me.

[Secretariat]

Terrible incident. Was watching last night as thosefamiles seem so releived only to see it reversed like this.

[GaryG]

The mines are a lot safer than they were 70 -80 years ago but this is still very dangerous work. With modern mining being less "labor intensive" there are some coal towns near me in SW Virginia with staggering unemployment. People love those mountains, but education levels are low and there just isn't any other work available. Now they have a mining method known to all as "mountain top removal". Better end this before I get really pissed off! :bang: :bang: :bang:

[PaceAdvantage]

Who will be the first to find a way to blame Bush for this?

[Steve 'StatMan']

I so sorry that the miners were lost, and their families grief.

Yet where are the politically-charged people with their signs protesting "No Blood For Coal."

Oh yeah, they're more concerned that the Alaskan birds, carribou and fish won't move to a new home if oil (a.k.a. energy) development takes place in Alaska.

Too bad all the large and small volume energy supplies that are easy to reach are gone. Political hot spots like the Middle East, and now Venezuela are were much of the oil is, and there is plenty of risks of bombs and bullets there. Coal, we have to send people in deep under the ground, quite risky although not as horribly risky as it once was.

Yet plenty of people, both for and against the items above, will complain about the price of fuel.

But at least the caribou are safe. Damned expensive caribou I would think, considering the U.S. based money spent, plus the Middle-East operations, money spent and lives lost, and local job opportunities lost up north. Damned caribou better reproduce like rabbits. The things have got to be costing the U.S. economy hundreds of dollars a head just to maintain for a few hundred people to hunt, and a few hundred thousand people in the lower 48 to fret about.

[lsbets]

Steve - your point reminds me of something else I heard today:

How many people have died producing nuclear power over the last 50 years vs. the number of people who have died mining coal?

[Steve 'StatMan']

Interesting point. Don't know of many workers deaths. But of course, a nuclear plant disaster adds risk to the entire region around the plant, a.k.a. Three Mile Island and Chernobyl (lot of workers and civilians affected on that one, but some of that was just bad procedures - like unprotected people moping up "heavy water" off the floor). And we all know what terrorist group would love to cause trouble at a nuclear plant if they could pull it off.

Yuck. No perfect alternative. Still beats sitting around in the desert burning cow dung and praying all day. (Quadruple Yuck! Try praying you won't have to burn cow dung for fuel anymore!)

[Bobby]

Who will be the first to find a way to blame Bush for this?


Some of you guys are just shell-shocked. I guess over Katrina. :)

[boxcar]

Getting up this morning reminded me of my feelings when Hurricane Katrina knocked NO for a loop. The night before when I retired, all seemed relatively well with the city, only to find out the next morning Nature played a cruel hoax on everyone. Likewise, last night everyone on the news networks were indescribably jubilant and elated beyond description when 'word" got out that the 12 miners were found and were okay. But this morning, I couldn’t believe what I was hearing upon learning that the reports were false.
Somehow my mind had a very tough time wrapping itself around that reality.


But I even had a rougher time trying to comprehend what the emotional rollercoaster ride must have been for the victims’ families. In fact…I couldn’t. I just wasn’t able to get a handle on that. All I could feel is my heart broking for them.

Now I’m wondering will the media take the blame for this misreporting? Today on El Rushbo’s show a caller sarcastically wondered if the media would report honestly on itself and accept full responsibility for the false report. He essentially asked, “Will the media confess that it lied to the public?” Will the media own up to the fact that it misled the public – just like Bush lied to Americans when reporting on WMDs, according to the liberal press? Of course, Rush thought the caller made a great point, but naturally no such thing will ever happen. The media is already acting like it, too, is a victim – right along with the grieving families of the miners.

The elite media can do no wrong. The media can only be wronged.

Boxcar

[Tom]

From now on, it is the media - not the news. The totally ignorance of the so-called news organiztions was laid bare. Freedom of the press in this country must be reconsidered. Obviously, nobody at all is bothered by facts - only the big story first. Disgraceful display of imcometance by everyone in the media circus. FCC should levy HUGE, company breakning fines and revocate some licenses - CNN, Fox come to mind right away. Fair and balanced? Try contrived and false. We need James Earl Jones to re-record his "This is CNN" soub byte to "This is utter crap!"

[BetHorses!]

Curious how much money miners make?

[Suff]

Gary G said something that con's you into thinin he's with workin men.
Better end this before I get really pissed off! :bang: :bang: :bang:

Dude.... if they struck and raised energy prices .60 cents you would of went against them or threw them under the bus as bad for America.! So you are not thier friend. You staked your positions. Your with the Republicans. You are not with the workin men.



Who was with the Transit Union on this board? Only those guys have a care.

[Suff]

What the hell does that mean?

You and Isbets got no business commenting in this thread either. You have staked your ground. You have no business sharing in our grief or joy. Go away. Your with the Company. Only working men can share in this pain.


###########. VOTE BUSH.

[GaryG]

Gary G said something that con's you into thinin he's with workin men.


Dude.... if they struck and raised energy prices .60 cents you would of went against them or threw them under the bus as bad for America.! So you are not thier friend. You staked your positions. Your with the Republicans. You are not with the workin men.



Who was with the Transit Union on this board? Only those guys have a care.
Suff, I think coal miners deserve every penny the make. It is back breaking hazardous work. Don't be so quick to pigeon hole people into categories. I have had several relatives work in the mines as well as friends.

[Pace Cap'n]

Curious how much money miners make?

Per NPR, about $75,000 per year.

A new guy, fresh from mine-training school, with no formal education, could start at $50,000.

[lsbets]

You and Isbets got no business commenting in this thread either. You have staked your ground. You have no business sharing in our grief or joy. Go away. Your with the Company. Only working men can share in this pain.


###########. VOTE BUSH.

I take it from your posts last night that the alcohol is flowing in New Orleans again ............

[JustRalph]

You and Isbets got no business commenting in this thread either. You have staked your ground. You have no business sharing in our grief or joy. Go away. Your with the Company. Only working men can share in this pain.
###########. VOTE BUSH.

Suff; Sometimes you are a laugh riot. Really. Let me fill you in on something. There are two people listed on the link below that are my relatives. Both are cousins? they were killed a couple of years apart, killed in the mines. They are listed under the name "Fraley" They were my Grandfather's brothers.

http://www.rootsweb.com/~kycoalmi/memorial.html

My Paternal Grandfather was a coal miner in Kentucky for 20 years. My Maternal Grandfather was a coal miner in WV for 30 years. About 3 hours from the Tallmansville mine. When he died in 1989 he was still receiving a "black Lung" pension. He was injured seriously in a "cave in" when I was young. I never understood it, but he went back to the mines for a while after recovery. Then retired. One of my fondest memories as a child was walking down a country road to meet my grandfather after the "company bus" dropped him off at the end of the "Holler" where he lived. I can still visualize him walking up the road carrying a lunch box wearing a miners hat and covered in coal dust. Summers at his home in WV were a treat. I also remember hearing him cough throughout the night, two rooms down the hall of his small home.

Coal was right outside the door and we took it for granted. When my grandfathers house was cold in the winter (we visited at Xmas too) we could walk 50 yards from the house and grab the ever present pick-axe and shovel and whack the side of the ridge a few times and fill up a basket and bucket full of coal. We would haul it back inside the house and feed it into the coal burning stove that was the only source of heat (until the remodel in the late 60's) for the house.

My older half brother lived in West Virginia most of his life. He graduated high school and went straight into the mines, just shortly after my grandfather had retired. In fact I believe that he was "allowed" to take my grandfathers slot at the union hall. Passed down as part of the UMWA heritage program. Which entitled him to a slot and therefore a job when the first opening came. He worked in the mines for about ten years before the jobs were eliminated and he was laid off. This was shortly after his best friend (and also a friend of mine) was killed in a mining accident. I attended the funeral and wondered as a young man, why these men partake in such a vocation. For a city boy living 4 hours north by "good road" I just didn't understand why my brother and Rodney, the friend, were so happy about the jobs they had. Until Rodney's death, I never heard my brother complain. But he went back to work in the same mine his friend died in. Until the layoffs.

I still recall my mother making sure the "phone was open" whenever we heard of a mine accident in WV. She would wait for that call from my brother, to let everyone know he was ok. This was before everybody had "call waiting" I was in high school during that time.

I stated that I thought you were funny sometimes. A real laugh riot. After reading your post I laughed a little, and then remembered driving home yesterday and thinking about the mine accident (As I drove home from work yesterday I was listening to a special report on the news, It was a press conference by some mine company official) I thought about my Grandfather and Brother. My Brother lives in Columbus now. We don't have to make sure the phone is "open" anymore. He works as a carpenter now. But I was thinking of my Grandfather and how I am so far removed from that area of the country only a few hours south, but an entire world away. I thought about what my Grandfather would say about what I do for a living. The computers, the high tech stuff that we have today. The 250k thousand dollar house with 3200 sq. feet? The backup heat for the house? The brand new Truck that I was driving? The fact that I took my lunch hour to run out and fix a server for a local business and earn a little extra money. He would think the world has run amok. But I would give anything for him to spend one day with me now. Those many days he spent in the mines were to my parents benefit and my ultimate benefit. I wish he could see the results, at least generationally, and how they changed my life compared to his. There is a little coal dust (just a little) left in my family.

You and Isbets got no business commenting in this thread either. You have staked your ground. You have no business sharing in our grief or joy. Go away. Your with the Company. Only working men can share in this pain.

You're right Suff, maybe I don't have "any business" commenting in this thread. But just so you know, I still have a couple of cousins I have only met once or twice, working in the mines. I am not expecting any phone calls, but I have been working google pretty hard the last few days, trying hard to find the names of those who died, just in case.

[GaryG]

Nice post Ralph....I lost my mother in law to black lung. Apparently Suff doesn't know there are plenty of people with Appalachian roots that hold to conservative ideals. Of course there is not a lot of coal mined in his Red Sox Nation. :mad: :mad:

[chickenhead]

There is a very beautiful Johnny Cash song (probably an older folk song), "Dark as a Dungeon", about working in the mines. One of my favorites, off the Folsom Prison CD.


Oh come all you young fellers so young and so fine
Seek not your fortune in a dark dreary mine
It'll form as a habit and seep in your soul
Till the stream of your blood runs as black as the coal


Where it's dark as a dungeon damp as the dew danger is double pleasures are few
Where the rain never falls the sun never shines
It's a dark as a dungeon way down in the mine

Well it's many a man that I've seen in my day
(uh huh no laughin' during this song please it's bein' recorded)
Like a fiend with his dope and a drunkard with his wine
A man will have lust for the lure of the mine
And pray when I'm dead and my ages shall roll
That my body would blacken and turn into coal
Then I'll look from the door of my heavenly home and pity the miner digging my bones
Where it's dark as a dungeon...

[GaryG]

There is a very beautiful Johnny Cash song, "Dark as a Dungeon", about working in the mines. One of my favorites, off the Folsom Prison CD.


Oh come all you young fellers so young and so fine
Seek not your fortune in a dark dreary mine
It'll form as a habit and seep in your soul
Till the stream of your blood runs as black as the coal


Where it's dark as a dungeon damp as the dew danger is double pleasures are few
Where the rain never falls the sun never shines
It's a dark as a dungeon way down in the mine

Well it's many a man that I've seen in my day
(uh huh no laughin' during this song please it's bein' recorded)
Like a fiend with his dope and a drunkard with his wine
A man will have lust for the lure of the mine
And pray when I'm dead and my ages shall roll
That my body would blacken and turn into coal
Then I'll look from the door of my heavenly home and pity the miner digging my bones
Where it's dark as a dungeon...
Yes CH that is indeed a great song....it was written by Merle Travis who came out of the mines of Western Kentucky. He also wrote the classic Sixteen Tons for Tennessee Ernie.

[boxcar]

Who will be the first to find a way to blame Bush for this?

Allegedly, some mine safety expert last night on the Hannity and Colmes show on FNC came right out and blamed Bush. I didn't see the show, but Rush reported on it this afternoon.

Boxcar

[Overlay]

Saw a story on MSN that more than one of the trapped miners apparently wrote notes to their families to let them know them that they weren't suffering pain, and that they were just basically going to sleep and would see their families on the other side. May all their souls find peace.

[PaceAdvantage]

You and Isbets got no business commenting in this thread either. You have staked your ground. You have no business sharing in our grief or joy. Go away. Your with the Company. Only working men can share in this pain.


###########. VOTE BUSH.


Silly.....

[JustRalph]

Silly.....

PA, you have no right to comment in this thread................you are against the working man...........now high tail it out of here! ;)

[Suff]

I take it from your posts last night that the alcohol is flowing in New Orleans again ............

I knew I made a ridicolous post out here that night. Took me a bit to find it..and sure enough.

Yer right...I was toasted. Train was off the tracks.

Rather than just bury it I figured I'd write this mea culpa.

My bad..........:ThmbDown:

[GaryG]

I knew I made a ridicolous post out here that night. Took me a bit to find it..and sure enough.

Yer right...I was toasted. Train was off the tracks.

Rather than just bury it I figured I'd write this mea culpa.

My bad..........:ThmbDown:
You're a good man Suff....despite being a liberal Red Sox fan...:ThmbUp:

[Secretariat]

Who will be the first to find a way to blame Bush for this?

I suppose Businessweek will as well as minor advocates.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8F9DV001.htm?campaign_id=apn_home_down&chan=db

"Hours after the bodies of two missing miners were found Saturday in Aracoma Coal's Alma No. 1 mine at Melville, Gov. Joe Manchin and West Virginia's congressional delegation called for a major overhaul of state and federal mine safety laws.

Both the National Mining Association and the United Mine Workers of America said Sunday that they, too, will press for change.

The bodies of Don I. Bragg, 33, and Ellery "Elvis" Hatfield, 47, were found Saturday, two days after a conveyor belt caught fire inside the Alma mine in southern West Virginia. Their deaths came just weeks after a Jan. 2 mine explosion that led to the deaths of 12 other miners exposed to carbon monoxide inside the Sago Mine in the northern part of the state.
The Bush administration is reviewing safety equipment in mines after scrapping similar initiatives started by the Clinton administration. Miners' advocates said pulling those initiatives stopped potentially important safety rules from becoming reality; the Republicans cited changing priorities and resource concerns."

NBC also reported tonight that in the mine where the two miners died, there was only one area in the mine for pulling out the coal. Previously, an air shaft was supposed to be built seperately from the mine the lack of which may have contributed to their death. The Bush administration removed that separate air shaft regulation to appease mining companies in terms of costs. We now see the result.

So now, they'll go back to the drawing board AFTER another disaster and try to spin things instead of addressing them BEFORE they happen.

[Tom]

And what about the responsibility of the state?
And of the mining company to provide a safe work place?
And of the miners union to demand a safe workplace?

Boy, the BS gets deeper and deeper.

[Secretariat]

And what about the responsibility of the state?
And of the mining company to provide a safe work place?
And of the miners union to demand a safe workplace?

Boy, the BS gets deeper and deeper.

THe EPA sets the regulations in effect, and GW loosened all those regulations. The Miners union requested the regulations. The mining company is only interested in profits. Bottom line is that had GW not rolled back those mining regulations, there is a possiblity that some of those men had been alive today. Suggest you read the Business Week article which is generally pro-business in its slant.

[Tom]

I don't care if he did roll them back - to blame him for this is ridiculous. The govenor is already livid and intorducing new legislation tomorrow - where was HE in December? Where was the union?