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Secretariat
12-22-2005, 11:16 PM
I've been waiting to see the initial response to the Iraqi elections from the candidates over there.

Apparently, the US favorite, (and Isbets hopeful as well) Allawi is upset about being trounced, and one his representatives described the Dec. 15 vote as "fraudulent" and the elected lawmakers "illegitimate."

"Allawi representative Ibrahim al-Janabi took the accusations one step further and described last week's elections in all 18 provinces as "fraudulent."

"These elections are fraudulent, they are fraudulent, and the next parliament is illegitimate. We reject all this process," al-Janabi told a news conference."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051223/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq;_ylt=AghxLOqGigl3YV_xME4XiBCs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMT A3b3JuZGZhBHNlYwM3MjE-

Sour grapes? Well, our WMD authority Chalabi is not happy either.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10575121

"WASHINGTON - Iraqi politician Ahmed Chalabi appears to have suffered a humiliating defeat at the recent Iraq polls, according to the uncertified preliminary results.

The news comes just a month after Chalabi had conducted a tour of Washington in an effort to patch up his tattered image in America. Paperwork shows that in November Chalabi’s Washington representative hired a powerful D.C. lobbying firm.

The election results in Iraq may present Chalabi’s ardent U.S. supporters with a quandary: Chalabi, as well as other losing candidates, is alleging fraud in the election, even though the Bush administration hailed the vote as a historic step for democracy in Iraq."
.........

What I feared is becoming closer to the truth. A Shia theocratic state is beginning to emerge with Islam as the rule of law, but which Islam? Well, if you are going to hold 60%+ of the seats in the new legislature, it appears that the Shia clerics will be predominant in the control of the process. Still, the media does not report on these candidates and their platforms. I don't get that since this is the alleged major aspect of our still staying there.

The Sunnis are already beginning to believe the election was rigged, so the next issue is how will that manifest in terms of the insurgency. We will see.

Tom
12-22-2005, 11:18 PM
Sec, not to worry.
There is still time to implement Plan B.
"Ve haf der cooridnates!"
Ker-boom!

Free or dead, whatever.

GameTheory
12-22-2005, 11:27 PM
"These elections are fraudulent, they are fraudulent, and the next parliament is illegitimate. We reject all this process," al-Janabi told a news conference."Sounds just like John Kerry; they'll be fine.

"What I feared is becoming closer to the truth?" Gimme a break, you mean what you've been rooting for -- something bad to happen? You've been waiting? Because you are incapable of commenting on good news?

Tom
12-22-2005, 11:35 PM
Sec, do you hold any fantasies at all the the SH regieme was in any way legitimate?

PaceAdvantage
12-23-2005, 01:05 AM
Well, if what Sec writes about turns out to be true, be thankful for this:

If Allawi or Chalabi had done well in the election, the four horsemen of this board, as well as lots of Iraqis would be chanting the vote was fixed by the Greatest Satan of all, George Bush....

ljb
12-23-2005, 01:41 AM
Well, if what Sec writes about turns out to be true, be thankful for this:

If Allawi or Chalabi had done well in the election, the four horsemen of this board, as well as lots of Iraqis would be chanting the vote was fixed by the Greatest Satan of all, George Bush....
Allawi and Chalabi had both requested voting booths from Florida and/or Ohio but failed in their efforts. Aw shucks, sometimes you win, somtimes you lose.

Secretariat
12-23-2005, 11:13 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051223/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_051223105056;_ylt=AuavTbmuM7_u2bCmf6F4VohX6GM A;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Large demonstrations broke out across the country Friday to denounce parliamentary elections that protesters say were rigged in favor of the main religious Shiite coalition. Also, the U.S. military said two soldiers were killed when their vehicle struck a roadside bomb in Baghdad on Friday


http://news.yahoo.com/s/oneworld/20051221/wl_oneworld/65731245721135200593

BAGHDAD, Dec 20 (IPS) - Despite the parliamentary elections last week and temporary ease in violence, Iraqis remain bitter about the outgoing year, and sceptical of 2006.

''As a doctor I usually travel daily from home to college," said Um Feras, a doctor of physics at Baghdad University who asked that her last name be changed for her protection. ''2005 was a terrible year, and now it has become unacceptable for me to leave my house to go teach due to the troops, who always where sunglasses even on gloomy days, aiming their rifles at everyone like they are gangsters."

The majority of Iraqis in Baghdad now fear the security forces, as dozens of people each week are ''disappeared" by police and soldiers around the city and new torture chambers have been discovered recently.
Dr. Feras told IPS that the daily chaos on the streets of Baghdad, such as closed roads and bridges, always caused her to be late, as well as most of her students.

''Nothing is good in Iraq now," said the doctor. ''Torture, detained friends, pillaging of houses, seeing neighbors suffering from poverty, no electricity, no water and gun fights everywhere. We have no relief from this suffering now."


http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article334476.ece

Iraq's election result: a divided nation
By Patrick Cockburn
Published: 21 December 2005

Iraq is disintegrating. The first results from the parliamentary election last week show the country is dividing between Shia, Sunni and Kurdish regions.
Religious fundamentalists now have the upper hand. The secular and nationalist candidate backed by the US and Britain was humiliatingly defeated.

Lefty
12-23-2005, 11:28 AM
sec, sounds like our last 2 elections. Why don't you and some other libs go over there and show em how the crying game is really done?

JustRalph
12-23-2005, 11:39 AM
Allawi and Chalabi had both requested voting booths from Florida and/or Ohio but failed in their efforts. Aw shucks, sometimes you win, somtimes you lose.

I am getting sick of you guys claiming the vote in Ohio was tainted. It has been investigated 5 times by 4 different groups and found to be almost completely free of any fraud. The only questions come from people having to stand in line. This is cited as having discriminated against minorities.

Lefty
12-23-2005, 11:45 AM
In the last election, I stood in line over 2 hrs to vote. Hey, i've been disctiminated against and didn't even know it. Shucks.
JR, the libs will never give it up. Truth is irrelevent to them. The votes in FL were counted many many times and GW won everytime. The papers announced that fact in mouseprint on the back pages.

lsbets
12-23-2005, 12:33 PM
Don't worry Sec - everything is going to turn out just fine in Iraq. Just like we had our own wingnuts here claiming that Ohio was fixed and Kerry would never accept the vote, they have their own wingnuts in Iraq. Things will turn out just fine, despite what some might be hoping for.

ljb
12-23-2005, 07:03 PM
I am getting sick of you guys claiming the vote in Ohio was tainted. It has been investigated 5 times by 4 different groups and found to be almost completely free of any fraud. The only questions come from people having to stand in line. This is cited as having discriminated against minorities.
Well now jr, I didn't say anything about tainted elections. However I did note you said "Almost completely free of any fraud". That dang almost will get you every time. I had a horse that almost won today too. :D

Tom
12-23-2005, 09:19 PM
Side note: The Iraqi election had 37 candidates more qualified than Kerry or Gore. 97 Hillary. Sadaam dead heated Billy Boy. :jump:

lsbets
12-26-2005, 09:13 PM
It seems that after the past week, despite the protests that we see on TV - the three main parties have been meeting to form a unity government. The apparent winners seem to be much more interested in finding a solution which unites Iraq than in creating a theocracy. Sounds a bit like what I said about Sistani before the election. I hate to break it to the perpetual naysayers and doom seekers, but it appears that the winners of the election are working hard to ensure that Iraq does not fragment and that a democratic nation that represents all Iraqis is created. As I pointed out before the election - do not underestimate the sense of Iraqi nationalism which in many cases transcends the Shia/Sunni/Kurdish divides.

Lefty
12-26-2005, 11:33 PM
And when the Iraqui democracy takes hold, I wonder how many dems will givecredit to GW? My guess is they will find a way to give credit elsewhere.

Secretariat
12-27-2005, 01:10 AM
Appears it's continuing.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051227/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

46zilzal
12-27-2005, 01:28 AM
Iraqi court disqualifies prominent Sunni candidates

By Nancy A. Youssef and Huda Ahmed / Knight Ridder

BAGHDAD, Iraq - An Iraqi court has ruled that some of the most prominent Sunni Muslims who were elected to parliament last week won't be allowed to serve because officials suspect that they were high-ranking members of Saddam Hussein's Baath Party.

Knight Ridder has obtained a copy of the court ruling, which has yet to be circulated to the public.

The ruling is likely to dampen Bush administration hopes that the election would bring more of the disaffected Sunni minority into Iraq's political process and undermine Sunni support for the insurgency. Instead, the decision is likely to stoke fears of widening sectarian divisions in a nation already in danger of descending into civil war.

ljb
12-27-2005, 08:31 AM
Not to worry 46. I just heard the U.S. administration/defense dept. will infuse another few million dollars to buy support for their man. (Your tax dollars at work). :D

Tom
12-27-2005, 10:27 AM
Appears it's continuing.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051227/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

Good thing we took out the serial mass murderer!
How many more of Sadaam's 'easter eggs" will be uncovered?

Lefty
12-27-2005, 11:33 AM
Our democracy didn't "bloom" overnight and not without travail and tribulation. Theirs won't either, but they're further along than they have ever been before. That's a good thing for US as well as them. Our tax dollars at work for a good cause and we've even pd less tax dollars during this admin than we did in the last admin which did nothing but take credit for the 94 Republican congresss' achievements. Money well spent.

46zilzal
12-27-2005, 02:20 PM
money would be better spend in North America ON the people the money was taken from in taxes to begin with.

46zilzal
12-27-2005, 02:29 PM
Thousands protest election results in Baghdad

BAGHDAD (AFP) - More than 5,000 people rallied in Baghdad to protest alleged fraud in Iraq's December 15 election and demand a re-run of the poll as top politicians discussed forming a government of national unity.

"No democracy without real elections", "Rigged polls", "Down with the electoral commission" read a number of banners.

The demonstration was called by the Maram alliance, an Arabic acronym for the Conference Rejecting Rigged Elections which includes both Sunni Arab and secular factions, dissatisfied with the preliminary election results suggesting that the Shiite-based religious parties will control the next parliament.

Ali al-Tamimi, a spokesman for the Maram alliance of some 36 parties and factions said the rally was meant to "show the Iraqi people's rejection of ballot-rigging" in the election.

JustRalph
12-27-2005, 03:01 PM
money would be better spend in North America ON the people the money was taken from in taxes to begin with.

So you are in favor of social programs..........and giving away money.....what are the odds of that...........

If you are going to give it back to those who paid the taxes.......then 86% of the money should go back to the rich..................

46zilzal
12-27-2005, 03:17 PM
Iraqis Denounce Iraqi Election As a Sham

By Sinan Salaheddin / Associated Press

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Protesters gathered across the country Friday to denounce parliamentary elections that demonstrators called rigged in favor of the main religious Shiite coalition.

In Baghdad, unknown assailants kidnapped a Sudanese diplomat and five other men as they left prayers at a mosque, a spokesman for Sudan's Foreign Ministry said. An Iraqi Foreign Ministry official said he had not heard of the abduction.

As many as 20,000 people demonstrated after noon prayers in southern Baghdad Friday in a protest organized by Sunni Arab groups and attended by representatives of secular Shia parties.

Many Iraqis outside the religious Shiite coalition allege that the elections were unfair to smaller Sunni Arab and secular Shiite groups.

46zilzal
12-27-2005, 03:24 PM
So you are in favor of social programs..........and giving away money.....what are the odds of that...........

If you are going to give it back to those who paid the taxes.......then 86% of the money should go back to the rich..................
better that than CORPORATE welfare

JustRalph
12-27-2005, 03:37 PM
better that than CORPORATE welfare

Boy! You have your liberal dictionary out today don't you.............

lsbets
12-27-2005, 03:38 PM
How many people demonstrated when Hussein was in power? Umm, no one who is alive to talk about it.

Protests are a good thing, it is a sign of free people when they can protest without the government killing them.

As far as the elections go, I guarantee you this will be the end result - the winning Shia party will give seats in the cabinet to both Sunnis and Kurds in an effort to build national unity. There have been virtually non-stop meetings with different factions for a week now to accomplish this. The statements and organized protests are nothing more than PR to try and force the Shia's hands and make it seem like the parties who did not win forced something to happen. I know there are some who want to see the elections ultimatly fail, but that won't be the result and there are some here who will be sorely disappointed.

Tom
12-27-2005, 05:17 PM
libs never saw an election they didn't hate!
It is hard for them to swallow that some Iraqi guy was able to win an election while libs are finding that to be pretty hard.

I guess they will have to ultimately dcide the whole thing with a poll of some kind - libs love polls. :kiss: :lol:

46zilzal
12-27-2005, 05:39 PM
Boy! You have your liberal dictionary out today don't you.............
didn't know that Webster had a political point on the spectrum

Lefty
12-27-2005, 07:09 PM
46 says:Iraqis Denounce Iraqi Election As a Sham
___________________________
Democrats did the same thing here. Looks like Democracy taking root.

Lefty
12-27-2005, 07:11 PM
46 says:money would be better spend in North America ON the people the money was taken from in taxes to begin with.
_____________________________------
That's the brilliance of GW. He did both. Gave us a tax cut and is seeing that democracy has a chance in Iraq.
Hey, glad you're finally on board with the tax cuts.

46zilzal
12-27-2005, 08:44 PM
brilliance and the rutabaga do not belong in the same sentence let alone the same galaxy

Lefty
12-27-2005, 09:03 PM
46, that's where you are just plain zilly. The facts are clear. Don't make me go through them once again. You let you bias' get in the way of common sense. You will never give Bush credit for anything because he is not a socialist. You make yourself clear on that.

46zilzal
12-27-2005, 09:13 PM
he isn't even a ganglion

Tom
12-28-2005, 12:33 AM
46 says:Iraqis Denounce Iraqi Election As a Sham
___________________________
Democrats did the same thing here. Looks like Democracy taking root.

Hahahahahaha. When a lib squeals, you know you're doing the right thing! :p

Secretariat
01-05-2006, 06:09 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/iraq

130 Dead in Series of Attacks in Iraq
AP - 1 hour, 32 minutes ago
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Suicide bombers targeted Shiite pilgrims in the south and police recruits in central Iraq, and a roadside bomb killed five U.S. soldiers, bringing Thursday's death toll to at least 130 people in a series of attacks as politicians tried to form a coalition government. The two-day toll from insurgent attacks rose to 183, reflecting a dramatic upsurge in bloodshed following the Dec. 15 parliamentary elections. Some leading Sunni politicians accuse the Shiite-led government of condoning fraud in the voting.

Lefty
01-05-2006, 06:47 PM
Yes, war is certainly hell. Too bad it's also sometimes necessary. These attacks just prove we're in the right place, doing the right thing.
My prayers go to the troops.

Secretariat
01-05-2006, 07:41 PM
Yes, war is certainly hell. Too bad it's also sometimes necessary. These attacks just prove we're in the right place, doing the right thing.
My prayers go to the troops.

Just not sure how these attacks "prove" we're in the right place? It proves that Iraq is a dvidied land, and that despite an election, the country is still incredibly unstable with much violence, and that religious factionalism is going to go on there for a long time. You're right about one thing, My prayers also go to the troops Lefty.

Lefty
01-05-2006, 08:00 PM
sec, the terrorists want to control Iraq as a means of controlling the Middle East. We're there stopping them. A divided country? So's ours, so hope they can iron it out. At least we're giving them that chance.

Tom
01-05-2006, 11:07 PM
If we are at war, why aren't we doing any attacking? There is more to war than standing out there like targets. Our efforts are deplorable. If we are going to fight terroists, then we better get some new stategies, because the ones we are using suck to beat hell.

boxcar
01-05-2006, 11:15 PM
sec, the terrorists want to control Iraq as a means of controlling the Middle East. We're there stopping them. A divided country? So's ours, so hope they can iron it out. At least we're giving them that chance.

In fact, we're so divided that I'm not sure how much longer this house will or can stand.

Boxcar

Lefty
01-06-2006, 12:01 AM
Tom, we attacked Iraq. We won that one, then the terrorists flowed in. You know, the ones Saddam didn't kniw from Adam. Anyway, once we attacked, all we can do now is counter attack. Make no mstk about it, we are at war. And we're winning!

PaceAdvantage
01-06-2006, 02:46 AM
These guys are always so quick to post the bad news, but they never EVER post the good news.

Why is that?

Secretariat
01-09-2006, 11:41 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060110/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

How will these people ever defend themselves? And I understand Britain is pulling out next year? I guess Ukraine, and Italy are already gone.