FOOD FOR THOUGHT

[dmattern]

Here is some food for thought and soul searching.
I am not starting this thread to get into a war again with anybody on this board. So please let all of us act civil and be nice. But I am going to ask some questions and make some remarks that I think will give all of you some food for thought and if they do, do a little soul searching and ask yourself why you did, what you did. Please do not take this, as me trying to defend my program, or my policy about selling my program, or me attacking anybody personally! You all know what program I am talking about, but I would like it, if it wasn't mentioned again. What I am really saying is, that I am trying to contribute something positive to this group for you to think about.

1 - I think everybody on this board likes and respects the PA and thinks he is a standup guy. He is providing a forum for everybody to come here and discuss things and express their thoughts and views on things (even politics) but his main objective is to discuss horse racing and sharing ideas and thoughts that will help other horse players.

2 - He keeps trying to tell everybody, by all your negativaty, there are many people that might be able to contribute some very positive insights on things, that just won't come here and say anything because they don't want to be rediculed and torn apart by lots of people on this board. If you like him so much, do you really think you are being fair to him?

3 - Now I am going to point out some things that happened on the thread about my program and the Steverr1 thread and I hope these things, give you some food for thought. And once again I beg all of you to keep it civil and just think about what I have to say.

THINGS ABOUT MY THREAD
1 - Maybe the biggest thing to a lot of you. Midnight come out immediately and started to make some claims on a site called horsesites. Trying to acuse me of making them up. When I took issue with this, others started jumping and taking his side. WHY? I want all of you to stop and think about this, and I think you already know the answer. If it is not my website, how I am I going to go into somebody else's website and edit or revise anything that is posted there? I'm sure most of you now realize it cannot be done. One man trying to take his side even went so far as to say when he looked at the site before, there were negative posts there and now they are gone. There was none there before, and do you really think that another website would edit or delete any negative comments about it, out of there.I think that would be defeating the purpose of their own website. He tried to say that I used phony names and made up address making it look like they came from different states and that he knew it could be done. Maybe such a thing is possible, but I am telling you that is something that is way over my head when it comes to computers. I sure don't know how to do something like that.
You also see that buffalo posted that he put 2 of them up there. The other ones are from the people that it says. Another person stated something about the fact that they all had 5 star ratings. Just stop and think about this for a minute, if you would of bought the program and really liked it and thought other people would also like it and benefit from it. Would you have went there and gave it a 1 star rating? I don't know if Midnight will read this or not, but if he does he should realize now that what I am saying makes alot of sense. And if he would of just gave it some thought he would not of got himself into the position he did. I know that a lot of you peolple liked a lot things that he contributed to this site and you are going to miss him. But he chose to engage mouth before he engaged head. JUST SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT!

2 - A lot of you expressed opinion's about the cost and a trial period. You had every right to express those opinions. But please just remember one thing. It is my product and that gives me the right to set the rules when it comes to anyone buying it. There are reasons why I did, what I did, and I am not going into them. But I just want you to stop and think about this for a minute. don't you think by now (I am 64yrs old) that I knew it would stop ,many people from buying it? That is something that I have to live with, not you. Think about this for a minute if I would of said I want $100.00 for it, how many people would of thought, (if it is supposed to be so good) why is he selling it so cheap? JUST SOME FOOD FOR SOME THOUGHT!

3 - A lot of you that are on here keeps telling everyone there is no such thing as a BLACK BOX. I totally agree!! but answer me this. Why when you are talking about any program that you keep telling them if their program is so good come here and post some picks ahead of time. That just simply does not make any sense to me. For these reasons. I will use an example from my program, if you look back at the results I posted (and please don't start), I showed you some races where a 5 star play won and some 1st time starters won. These horses were not ranked 1st, but the program pointed to something that showed you they had an excellent chance of winning. So if I posted one of them up when I gave out my selections ahead of the race, and somebody else that had the program gave out his selection for that race and gave out the horse that was ranked 1st and it lost, does that make it a bad program and one that you cannot win with. My personal opinion is no!! If you look back over the things that I posted, how many times did I state that handicapping is very subjective (meany everybody has an opinion and interprets things their own way). So why is it such a big thing on this forum, post some selections ahead of time. If there is no such thing as a black box and someone is not advertising it to be a black box. What is going to be proved by me or anyone else posting selections. That I make better guesses than someone else that chose to post the horse that was ranked first. Even CJ tells you one thing. His numbers are what they are and you have to learn to use them and make decisions on your own. (If you give comments, please be civil) JUST SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT!!

4 - I am going to say one last thing about Doug. None of you know how many times he called me or I e-mailed him trying to get him on the winning track.(now that you should realize horsesites is not my my website, go and look at how many people state he is always there to help you. What I want to point out is, one man (Jack S) told him this, try and figure out and use some of the things there, that you understand and make it work for you. He didn't make any negative remarks about me, say something negative about my program that he didn't know anything about. He gave Doug something positive to think about and if you noticed Doug did reply to him and thanked him and stated he was going to try Jcapper to help him make some decisions about my contenders. So what might have helped Doug the most? All the negative things you said about me or the one positive thing (Jack S) told him? JUST SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT!!

5 - This is starting to get very long, so I am going to say one last thing. I don't know what Steve's agenda was, but I am going to point this out. He made the statement in his first post that he made a million dollars at the races last year and that he could show you the proof that he did it. Yes ask questions and yes tell him to prove it. But then wait and see what happens. If he doesn't prove it, then say your negative remarks! I think this is what the PA would like for you to do. Why make the negative remarks first and then you end up looking like the fool and having to eat crow. I do think he proved he is who he said he was and Marc at DRF said he proved to him over a half of million in signers. JUST SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT!!

I THINK THAT EVERYBODY ON HERE, SHOULD THINK ABOUT THE THINGS I HAVE JUST POINTED OUT AND DO SOME SOUL SEARCHING, ARE YOU REALLY HELPING THIS FORUM OR ARE YOU JUST OUT TO PUT DOWN ANYBODY THAT IS NEW TO THIS BOARD? I'M SURE YOU REALIZE THAT YOU PROBABLY DID A PRETTY GOOD JOB ON ME, THAT I FEEL WAS UNCALLED FOR.

[PaceAdvantage]

1 - Maybe the biggest thing to a lot of you. Midnight come out immediately and started to make some claims on a site called horsesites. Trying to acuse me of making them up. When I took issue with this, others started jumping and taking his side. WHY? I want all of you to stop and think about this, and I think you already know the answer. If it is not my website, how I am I going to go into somebody else's website and edit or revise anything that is posted there? I'm sure most of you now realize it cannot be done.

Quick correction, then a few thoughts: It wasn't Marc at DRF, but MichaelNunamaker who was sent the IRS signers.

I think this thread may be moved to the software section, because most folks who haven't read the prior posts in that section don't know what you're talking about in this thread.

With that said, I must point out the following. On Horsesites.com (another free plug -- :rolleyes: ) ANYONE can upload a review of your software. You or I can go there right now and write a review, saying anything we want. No, you won't be able to go there and edit or revise a review, but you can certainly submit new ones. Just thought I'd point that out...

Also, midnight did not accuse you of making up the reviews....what he said was, that in his opinion, it seemed as though some of the reviews were written by the same person. He never came out and stated that he thought you made them up yourself.

[joeyspicks]

TO DMattern:
You make some good points.

1. its your program and you get to decide what the cost is....absolutely the way it should be.

2. I never thought you were marketing a BLACK BOX

however I did question Dougs motives for purchasing your program at his level of experience (not that your program must be used by advanced players....but Doug obviously had nothing to compare it with, and the other options wouldnt have set him back as much)

3. having said that I think you were most likely treated unfairly.......and the thread most definitely got out of hand.
I cannot speak for Midnight.....but I can say since I have been active in this forum he has never reacted quite so strongly. Im not sure why...but I wish him well and still hope he comes back to share.

4. About Steve.......VERY strange. I'M still UNSURE OF THE MOTIVATION behind that strange series of events. I do not blame PA for taking the actions that he did. Examining all Steves post you would be hard pressed to find even ONE beneficial idea. He came on strong....with ego based statements....almost begging to be challenged. When he was he backed it up (almost TOO convenient wasnt it?). But the amazing thing is AFTER the initial storm...I myself apologized for my sarcastic laughter.....and most posted they should be more open.....he contributed NOTHING. The pk3 stratagy has been around a long time. His basic "method" was just that...VERY BASIC. Still it got more bizarre with the outcome being what it is.
Why? Beyond me?

[Tom Barrister]

Counterpoints:

PA doesn't need anybody to be his big brother. If he has a problem with somebody he will address the issue himself.

Sending the site master an email might be one way to get a negative post removed. Maybe the email says the reviewer has an agenda, maybe it states another side to the case. If convincing enough that the reviewer is being dishonest or grudging, the review might come down. I didn't say you did this. I said that was one way it could be done.

You said: "horses were not ranked 1st, but the program pointed to something that showed you they had an excellent chance of winning." I think that you can take any software with multiple ratings and find something to point to six or seven horses in every race and easier if you do not need to use the top rating.

I am glad that you showed up again Dwight. Perhaps you can answer me a question. It has been in the back of my mind for a while.

On horsesites, these well known and somewhat well known software programs and vendors are listed (among many other ones): A1 Handicapping, American Thoroughbred Handicapper, Cynthia Publishing, Fast Fred, FOCUS by ADPA, Handicappers Daily (ITS), Hor$ense, HTRF, InstaPick, Race Prophet, Steed and Scribe, The Missing Link, Thorotech (Equisim), Thoroughbred Performance Analyzer, Ultimate Racetrack Invester.....and your Amazing Capper. You would admit that some of these are very well known. Equisim for example.

Now I look at horsesites...and of those I named, the only one with more than 8 ratings is A1 Handicapping (with 12.... none in the first year...then 9 in 10 days....then only 3 more in 4 years --- duh. There's something called Bet Won that I never heard of that has 15 entries). A lot of the ratings have no comments with them. Just the stars rating.

Equisim for example has no ratings. Not one individual has gone to horsesites and said a word about Equisim. They must have hundreds of users, right? Only one rating each for Handicappers Daily, Cynthia Publishing, and HTRF. Handicappers Daily must have thousands of subscribers or have had that many over time. Cynthia Publishing has lots of software. There must be hundreds of users of their software.

So Dwight....can you answer me this?

When a total of one person combined has found horsesites for the combined power and widespread exposure of Equisim, Handicapper's Daily, and Cynthia Publishing.........how is it that 25 people have found out where horsesites is so they could post a rating about Amazing Cappper?

Maybe it is coincidence.

I await your answer.

[PaceAdvantage]

Not only that, this (PA.Com) website isn't even listed on HorseSites....lol

I'm moving this thread to the software section....

[dmattern]

Tom - I will be glad to answer your questions. And then please answer me a couple, I have for you.

1 - I cannot tell you why there are no comments there for all the ones you want to know about.

2 - I can tell you why there are most of them for me.

a - First off I told you I am not a webmaster and I haven't had one for a long time.

b - I do not get many hits on my website a day, maybe 10-12

c - So I searched for places that I could put a link to my website and one of them I found was horsesites. I also saw that it had a place for people to give reviews about the programs.

d - I was marketing my program and so I asked a couple of my friends that bought the program from me, to go on there and say something about my program. One was G.T. Hall and the other was Gene Smith.

e - If you go to my website and look under proof, you will see that Gene let me use some of his W2G (signers) to put on my website (click on them and they will enlarge)

f - Then I had some people that bought the program, that sent me e-mails
telling me about some of the scores that they had made using the program. So I asked them to go there and posts some remarks for me. If you give me your e-mail address, I will forward them to you and you can see that I am not making it up.

g - Then when I had someone call and ask about the program, I would always tell them to go to horsesites and look at what other people had to say about it. After they got the program and they liked it, they just went there by themselves and posted their remarks (without me asking them). That is how I got the ones that are there.

h - I think you call this marketing. So did I do something wrong or unethical?

NOW I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS FOR YOU
1 - After you see the e-mails will you please come back on here and say that I was not making this up?

2 - Why did you make the remark about my booklet system when you don't even know what it is about. I will tell you why it can work on both the trotters and the runners. It is based on the last four running lines of the horse. I think they both have running lines or I am wrong. I don't know does jai-lai have running lines maybe it will work on that also. I use the numbers you get from doing this as a very tiny part of the software program and nowhere will you find that I say my software program will work on the TROTTERS. And by the way a lot people really liked that simple system that can be done very fast.

3 - But the biggest thing I want an answer on is, why didn't you just simply ask me these questions in a nice way and I would of answered them just like I did right now instead of saying all the negative things you did without knowing it to be a fact. JUST SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT!!

LIKE I SAID AT THE START OF THIS THREAD, PLEASE DON'T TURN THIS INTO ANOTHER THREAD LIKE THE LAST ONE. I WANT EVERYONE TO ASK ANY QUESTION THEY WANT TO AND I WILL GLADLY ANSWER IT. I GOT NOTHING TO HIDE. BUT PLEASE KEEP THE NEGATIVE THINGS OUT OF THEM.

[dmattern]

PA - You have to submit it first. Just go to add link and submit it. Might get you lots more visitors.

[Tom Barrister]

Then you are saying that you've personally directed all or most of the people who like your software to horsesites. Did you also direct everybody who didn't like your software to horsesites? Of course you didn't....nobody else would do that either. My point is......that in my opinion ... even if every review there is by a separate person......if they aren't going to horsesites themselves and finding horsesites themselves without being prompted....then it is subjective and coaxed advertising by proxy on your part. It does not matter if they all went there of their own free will. If they are going there at your suggestion....then it is not essentially different from you going there yourself and doing all of them. All the reviews will be good. None will be bad. The deck is stacked. That is how I feel about it. Other people may not feel the same way.

My remark about your booklet is accurate. I do not need to read it. I do not know of any single method that works well on both flats and trots.

I do not see anybody mentioning that you said that your software works on flats and trotters.

I am not a nice man to people who are not also nice. When you come in with your then four posts and tell a person who is respected on this forum....

Midnight you are one sick puppy!

...you have lost the right to civility from me until you can subsequently show that you have changed your ways. That has not happened yet. My other post in this thread is civil ... but is not meant to be sugar coated and sweet. Go right ahead and be uncivil to me as well. I expect such from people when I am not nice to them. I expect it when I am not nice to their friends. It does not bother me. It comes with the territory when I speak my mind.

[dmattern]

Tom - I will state once again you have every right to your opinion. But I think you are missing something very important here. People here were talking about my program and most of them don't own it and haven't seen someone else that does own it, using it. They also were saying many negative things about me and my program. So all I am saying is why do people say things about something you really don't know anything about? But I want to point this out to you and I want you to stop and think about this before you reply.

DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT I COULD OF GOT PEOPLE TO GO THERE AND POSTS LIES ABOUT MY PROGRAM? JUST STOP AND THINK, IF THEY WASN'T GETTING WINNERS WITH THE PROGRAM AND DIDN'T LIKE IT, WOULD THEY HAVE SAID THAT THEY WAS, JUST TO DO ME A FAVOR. YOU KNOW BETTER THAN THAT!. ALL BUT TWO, I HAD NEVER MET BEFORE THEY BOUGHT THE PROGRAM. JUST SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT!!

[alysheba88]

Give it a rest already. This is getting embarrassing

[dmattern]

THIS IS MY LAST POST ABOUT THIS THREAD

Alsheba - I think you forgot to finish your sentence. It should of been:
GIVE IT A REST ALREADY - THIS IS GETTING EMBARRASSING TO ALL THE PEOPLE THAT PUT THEIR NOSE WHERE IT DIDN'T BELONG!!

Remember I didn't start the first thread on here. But I did say, I had no choice, when somebody starts saying things about me or my program (that are not true) other than to set the record straight!!

[Lefty]

TomB says:matter if they all went there of their own free will. If they are going there at your suggestion....then it is not essentially different from you going there yourself and doing all of them. All the reviews will be good. None will be bad. The deck is stacked. That is how I feel about it. Other people may not feel the same
______________________________
Of course it's essentially diff. Those people liked his prgm. He asked them to say so on a particular site. He did not ask for good reviews from people who had no opinion or didn't like the prgm. I've had the prgm a while and he never once asked me to write a good review anywhere. In other words people got back to him and said they liked the prgm; he didn't contact them. A great ESSENTIAL difference.
;

[keenang]

LEFTY;

I AGREE WITH YOU. WHY ARE THESE GUYS ON THIS GUY'S ASS?

HAPPY HOLIDAYS
GENO

[46zilzal]

like old Will wrote "Much Ado about Nothing"

[PaceAdvantage]

Isn't there a saying that goes something like "any publicity is good publicity"

Maybe not in this case...but you never know....