Whatchu talkin' 'bout Willis?

[PaceAdvantage]

Just to reiterate, there have been MORE THAN A FEW players who have written on this board about money they have won, or are winning....LONG TERM STUFF. They never received the kind of reaction a certain someone received recently, so one must examine if indeed the board is generally unfriendly to the "sharing winners" of this world.

ROOK comes to mind as one of the more recent players who shared with us his financial success....he never got a negative reaction, from what I remember.

So, I would like to lay to rest the myth that this board is unfriendly to winning players, or folks who want to share. Just utilize the SEARCH function, and you'll see all the grand sharing that has gone on over the past 6+ years. Many folks have shared with us on this board, and have come away no worse for the wear.

I personally would like to see some of the bigger "names" on this board open up a bit and let us into their world for a glimpse of what goes on behind the scenes of a winning player.

My favorite column in one of the stock trading periodicals I read is "The Face of Trading," where folks who trade for a living share their stories....how they came to the game, what they do to earn a living from trading, what their computer setup is like, etc. etc.

I'm not saying you should reveal everything....that's not necessary for it to remain extremely interesting. Plus it would go a long way towards putting this recent bit of nastiness behind us.

[Rook]

ROOK comes to mind as one of the more recent players who shared with us his financial success....he never got a negative reaction, from what I remember.


You are absolutely right, PA. I've had only positive interactions with the members on this board over the last several months. I appreciate all of those who I've communicated with.

The only bad experience I've ever had on this board was 11 months ago, when I first came out of lurker mode and the Little Guy called me an asshole.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17261&page=12&pp=15

Other than that time, my impression is that the people here are a great group of individuals.

[DrugSalvastore]

My favorite column in one of the stock trading periodicals I read is "The Face of Trading," where folks who trade for a living share their stories....how they came to the game, what they do to earn a living from trading, what their computer setup is like, etc. etc.

I've tried to get into this kind of stuff in a lot of my posts.

I'd be very interested in hearing what other players have to say in this thread.

I simply believe that what you put into something is what you'll get out. I'd rather let other people go first in here though....but...

I've been making ends-meet from this game, and I believe I've been very lucky and fortunate to do so--and I'm far from convinced that my good fortune will continue forever. I'm also interested in having a wife and kids at some point---and I'm 100% convinced that I will never be able to balance this game with my family. I'm having all the fun I can be doing this right now, but I think I'm very in-touch with reality...and someday I will take the bankroll and money I've built up from my good fortune...and it will be a gigantic help for me while I work a common job (like most people do) and try to raise a family.

I've had opportunities to leave the game recently...and against sound judgement, I've decided not to. I'm actually in FLA right now, and I'm getting ready for Gulfstream...maybe this could be the meet where all my luck and good fortune run out---and I meet my Waterloo. I have a lot respect for the game, and I'm just willing to do all the tedious work I can, and give myself every edge I can, and just hopefully things work out.

I want to add two opinions of mine---#1. I think a lot of people want to believe this game is much easier than it really is. #2. For God sakes, being someone who tries to make his money and his living betting on horses IS NOT nearly as glamorous as a lot of people think. I love doing this---but as anyone who reads my posts should have noticed by now---I'm 100% BAT-SHIT CRAZY! I think you have to be a little nuts to approach the game with the intensity that I do--and dedicate almost all of your life (the one and only life you get) to it. I'm sorry if I don't make it sound like its a lot of fun, or if I don't make it sound like it's that easy---I guess this game has just never came easy to me.

The fun part, is when you try and meet a girl and she asks you what you do. Instead of saying "I bet on horses" you might as well as just say "I'm unemployed and I live under a bridge" because....well, that's kind of how girls translate that in their heads from my experience.

[Rook]

I'm also interested in having a wife and kids at some point---and I'm 100% convinced that I will never be able to balance this game with my family....

The fun part, is when you try and meet a girl and she asks you what you do. Instead of saying "I bet on horses" you might as well as just say "I'm unemployed and I live under a bridge" because....well, that's kind of how girls translate that in their heads from my experience.

Having a wife and kids does not have to be a negative in your ability to be a professional handicapper. Although they naturally require a lot of your time and energy, they (hopefully) bring peace of mind and a sense of priorities that is very helpful.

I now spend less time on the computer than I did when I was single, but the time I do spend is more focussed and productive. No longer do I waste hours on end surfing for things like the life story of Dana Plato.

I agree that telling a girl right off the bat that you're a horseplayer is likely to give her a poor first impression but if you can get past that stage, a few profitable days at the track should be enough to turn her around.

[DrugSalvastore]

The only bad experience I've ever had on this board was 11 months ago, when I first came out of lurker mode and the Little Guy called me an asshole.

Dang, in my old days on AOL (before I made a string of lucky-ass winning picks in big races--and everyone all started loving me) quite a few people (like 80%) hated my guts. I used to refer to them as "the Anti-DrugS Coalition" which, is probably yet another good reason why they all hated me at the time.

I really don't get all the people recently...who are making TLG out to look like a bad guy. I've argued with him, in several different threads since my arrival here. Never once did I find him to be, even slightly, a bad person.

He did tell me in one post---that he needs to take a valium every time he gets done reading one of my posts. If comments like that bother you, IMO, you're pretty thin-skinned.

I know you guys probably think I'm writing this, because I'm jealous of TLG's new status as a "bad-guy" around here---and I want to be the bad guy. That's probably why I am writing it....but, just as someone who has had the
experience of sparing with him many times before, I think a few of you guys are reading him the wrong way.

Here's a tip---if you feel the need to get even with him---write a long post about the greatness of young jockey Bejarano.

*Call his ride on Colonial Colony in the '04 Foster (where he was trading at over 100-to-1 odds in internet betting markets) the best ride of 2004. Make some kind of argument that his ride on Intercont in the F&M Turf was undoubtebly the best ride of 2005...because of how extremely difficult that horse is to ride, and just how flat out pretty a trip Banana-nose Bejerano gave him. Predict he will be the next Angel Cordero Jr.

* After that---metion that Jan Rushton is a goddess and tell why you think she is almost surely the most competent and impressive person in racing. Male of Female.

* Praise Godolphin for the blessing that they are. Talk about how you strongly feel as though they are going to get hot and win several Ky Derbies in a row with their unique style of managing young horses.

* Write that you think Andy Beyer is a fraud who can't pick his nose..and Steve Richardson is the greatest betting mind since Pittsburgh Phil

Either that---or just don't act so sensitively. Just Sayin'

[RaceIsClosed]

Just to reiterate, there have been MORE THAN A FEW players who have written on this board about money they have won, or are winning....LONG TERM STUFF. They never received the kind of reaction a certain someone received recently, so one must examine if indeed the board is generally unfriendly to the "sharing winners" of this world.

ROOK comes to mind as one of the more recent players who shared with us his financial success....he never got a negative reaction, from what I remember.

So, I would like to lay to rest the myth that this board is unfriendly to winning players, or folks who want to share. Just utilize the SEARCH function, and you'll see all the grand sharing that has gone on over the past 6+ years. Many folks have shared with us on this board, and have come away no worse for the wear.

I personally would like to see some of the bigger "names" on this board open up a bit and let us into their world for a glimpse of what goes on behind the scenes of a winning player.

My favorite column in one of the stock trading periodicals I read is "The Face of Trading," where folks who trade for a living share their stories....how they came to the game, what they do to earn a living from trading, what their computer setup is like, etc. etc.

I'm not saying you should reveal everything....that's not necessary for it to remain extremely interesting. Plus it would go a long way towards putting this recent bit of nastiness behind us.

I think winners who get flamed usually get flamed when they are either trying to sell something, or when what they claim works for them goes against what the majority believes (which it usually will). Then there's the ego problem for those who don't win themselves and don't want to confront the idea that someone else does.

[Rook]

I really don't get all the people recently...who are making TLG out to look like a bad guy. I've argued with him, in several different threads since my arrival here. Never once did I find him to be, even slightly, a bad person.

He did tell me in one post---that he needs to take a valium every time he gets done reading one of my posts. If comments like that bother you, IMO, you're pretty thin-skinned.



When others started piling on TLG this week, I did not get involved because I have no interest in starting a war with him. The only reason I brought him up is that PA mentioned me by name and I felt it was appropriate to respond with a full account. I wish I could have said that I have only had positive communications on this board but if someone had looked up my history, they would have seen that this would have been a lie. The plain truth is that everyone on this board has been friendly and civilized with me except for a couple of bogus first time posters pushing a software product and TLG.

I appreciated TLG's efforts at exposing Steve but I do agree with other posters who suggest that he should make more of an effort at acting like a decent human being. If he had been the only one to respond to my first posting, then I frankly would have never contributed again.

However, there were a bunch of great guys who jumped to my side and rightfully slammed DRF for their crappy customer service. Guys like Tom, andicap, NoDayJob, takeout, kingfin66, keilan, Steve Statman and ShowMetheWire, showed me that there is a good reason to post on this board.

DrugSalvastore, I don't think it's being thin skinned to be offended when someone calls you an asshole. If I had been a prick then I should have expected it but if people go back and read the old thread, I think most will agree that the language was uncalled for.

I don't expect or remotely want this place to be a Buckingham tea party but I also don't want it to degenerate into Cell Block 59.

[joeyspicks]

What a great idea for a thread! I wouldnt mind hearing from some on this board concerning their experience's.

For me....I learned the long hard way. It tooks years and keeping extremely good records. Its no secret I view money management as a key component to success. I mean having a method of putting "suffcient" funds thru the windows to make the profit I'm looking for. You either have to do "volume" OR place a few LARGE bets. Once in awhile someone will post they ONLY bet IF the odds are 7-1 or higher. I cannot see how you can find enough quality 7-1 or higher bets daily to make it worth while. CJ and Dick S. have both mentioned volume bets......find the play...place the bet and go on to the next one. I dont want to put words in their mouths....but what I interpet this to mean is they have "method" of finding a quality play (+ edge) and place the appropriate size bet relative to bank. If they can place say $2000 in volume per day and have a roi of just 10% (+ rebate of say 7%).....repeat daily! Of course you must be able to weather the storms (ie losing streaks). Knowing your own history is helpful but of course guarantees nothing.

I think a lot of guys have NO m.m. plan or are easily swayed into abandoning whatever plan they had
and make plays to "get out even". The biggest difference in mindset is a short term mindset ( like daily, or weekly) vs LONG term. One losing day or week or month means nothing. However a lot of guys play as if there is no tomorrow.


I would love to hear from Rook and others that make their profits in a much higher risk catagory. Do they have large drawdowns.? Have they a method for determing how much to play in a given race ? Do they "tap out" often ?

thanks

[melman]

Looks to me that there are two main camps of winning players. One the DrugS, Keilan, TLG, etc group who work and work hard on one or two cards a day and when they find the right spot they bring the cash. This group IMHO has to work a different method of money mangement. They can put up more on one play then I would dare think of. If I am wrong on this or getting the wrong idea jump right on in. In reading DrugS posts it's easy to tell he cares about the business and is a very detail guy. Nothing at all wrong with that approach. In the other camp are CJ, sjk, myself and others. Spend a long time looking over a card? uh how about 10 seconds and good to go. Placing over a 100 bets a day? nothing to it. I think I started seeing in some other threads that both camps were starting to see that each has a "good" idea working. What causes most of the "problems" is guys jumping in with how much they win or how often they win. I confine my "bragging" to the WR where only a few have to put up with it. :lol:

[sjk]

I have always had the impression that posts which specify one's good results are generally not well received. I recall that at the end of last year there was a brief thread where I mentioned my results for the year and I suspect I ended up on some ignore lists by having done so.

In most fields of endeavor if you do well for a sustained period of time someone may eventually notice and congratulate you on your good efforts. That is one aspect that is lacking when you play races at home. It may be one reason that several members have gone the commercial software route even though they might have made more betting by keeping their methods to themselves.

It is pleasant to participate in the War Room because the others may have some kind words if you happen to catch a winner and might even watch and root for your horse to do well if they are not otherwise occupied or betting against you.

I guess I can state how things are going for me this year and see what reactions come.

I use my own homemade software developed through much effort around 10 years ago and I have pretty much sworn off tinkering with it after I made some changes last spring and backed them out after two months where my results were less than I would have expected. I let the computer dictate all the plays and generally don't know what type of race it is or who the horses are until after the bets are made. However I still enjoy watching the races and rooting loudly for my horses (although they do not always listen).

I have bet just over 6,000 races this year with an ROI of 24%. Both are slightly down from last year but I still feel good about the result.

Those who care to pursue the homegrown software approach and accept the honesty of the last paragraph (anyone there?) can take it from me that success is a definite possibility but that it took me thousands of hours of work to get there.

[Rook]

I would love to hear from Rook and others that make their profits in a much higher risk catagory. Do they have large drawdowns.? Have they a method for determing how much to play in a given race ? Do they "tap out" often ?


As I've revealed before, I am primarily a superfecta player. The one advantage of that is that it is pretty straightforward how much to bet. There is rarely any reason to go beyond the $2 base bet. Anything more than that just kills the prices, especially at the mid and smaller tracks which I prefer.

As far as the number of combinations go, I basically throw in every horse that my odds line deems a fair price. This typically adds up to 3 or 4 hundred combos.

Yes, I have had some very scary dropdowns. Last month, the best week in my life was followed by my worst. Losing $12k in a day is absolutely sickening when you convert it to real life money (ie. rent for a year). I do my best not to let this conversion in my head take place but sometimes I fail to block the thought, so when that happens I take some time off to ease the pain and get back to a better mental state.

I haven't tapped out of my main accounts but I have blown all my money in accounts set up for specific tracks (ex. Northlands and Stampede).

[joeyspicks]

thanks Rook,

yeah I would have a very difficult time with drawdowns like that ($12,000). Do you find it affecting your decsion making? Make you hesistate? Get "careful" ? ?

I sometimes feel I am too methodical, too "grind it out" and look to suppliment my income with some additional exotic play......without hurting the bottom line.

[the little guy]

I think one of the hardest things about responding to a " what makes a winning player " question, at least for me, is I feel that it takes a certain amount of presumptuousness to even answer the question, as you're immediately EXPECTING people to assume you are in fact a winning player. And believe me, as someone quoted in " Six Secrets of Successful Horseplayers ", I think about this. Do I really have the right to make these comments if I have, say, even one losing year?

I also agree wholeheartedly that handicapping, even though this is absolutely what I pride myself at being very good at, is a mere fraction of what it takes to be a successful player. The truth is that the most financially successful horseplayer I know, and granted lately the rebate has had a lot to do with this but he was always a real winning player, has without question the worst handicapping opinion of any serious player I know. That alone has always given me pause.

The main question becomes do you know what your supposed to do and do you thus do it. For example, I know that I like a horse, let's say he's 5-1, but I can dutch him in exactas with the three horses I consider the main contendors and get 15-1, so I MUST bet all my money in exactas if I " know " these three horses are more than 50% to finish second, should my selection win. Am I emotionally prepared to make this bet and get nothing should my horse win and I fail to hit the exacta? In the long run, if I'm correct that the three chosen horses are over 50% to finish second, I will make more money with the exacta strategy, and that's really all that matters. But, if losing money with a winning selection emotionally screws up my thought process for the rest of the day, am I truly being rewarded over time? Well, no, and this is the reason to be successful you MUST get past the emotional aspect.

Another discussion is multirace wagering where you have to use horses in races that you may not particularly " like ", this is especially true in Pick-6s, as sometimes it's more about staying alive than actually having opinions. This is counterintuitive to a player like me who " prides " himself on having strong convictions. This " pride " has gotten in the way of my making big scores, more so in the past, and learning to get past it is another step in learning to be a successful player....always an ongoing process.

Gotta get to the Aqueduct card.

[Rook]

thanks Rook,

yeah I would have a very difficult time with drawdowns like that ($12,000). Do you find it affecting your decsion making? Make you hesistate? Get "careful" ? ?


Yes, it does affect my decision making. In almost every race, there is a gray zone between which horses are fairly priced and which are underlays. When I have lost 15 or so super bets in a row, I start getting the feeling that I am never going to win again, and I escalate the number of horses on a ticket just to put an end to the nasty streak. Sometimes I get away with this practice but when I don't, those $600 or $800 losses hurt a lot more than the 3 or $400 variety.

If I've had a losing week, I now know it is in my best interest to walk away for awhile and recharge my batteries. I still have the stock market to satisfy my urge to gamble.

[Tom]

melman makes a good point - the menal game is very important-DocSartin focused on this as well.

CJ posted he bets 100 races a day and hits 25 of them. What statistic would you focus on? Winning 25 bets and making a boatload of money or dwell on losing 75 races?

I used to go DAYS without making a bet, wating for the "right spot" to come along. Then it finally sank in that an awful lot of "nearby spots" were paying off. I am going more in the direction of volume thanks to HTR and CJ's program making it pretty easy to look at 100 races a day.

[parlay]

Rook how do you feel the availability of dime etc. supers has affected your profitability. Have the increases in the pools offset for the ability of more punters to spread?

[cj]

...Another discussion is multirace wagering where you have to use horses in races that you may not particularly " like ", this is especially true in Pick-6s, as sometimes it's more about staying alive than actually having opinions. This is counterintuitive to a player like me who " prides " himself on having strong convictions. This " pride " has gotten in the way of my making big scores, more so in the past, and learning to get past it is another step in learning to be a successful player....always an ongoing process.

Gotta get to the Aqueduct card.

For me this has proven very tough, and I avoid Pick 4s and play very few Pick 3s for just this reason. I still recall one day at Belmont hitting 3 of 4 in the Pick 4, singling Birdtown to beat Lady Tak, having a 90-1 winner in one race going 3 deep, and an obvious 2-5 winner or something in one of the races. The race I missed, I went 6 or 7 deep in a 7f turf race, and didn't use the favorite, who of course won.

It is just very, very hard for me to change my single race strategy to play multi race bets. I just can't seem to put a 7-5 shot on the ticket that I think should be 3 or 4 to 1, and it always seemed to bite me in the ass.

[the little guy]

It's a very hard thing for me as well. Playing multiple tickets makes it easier, as you find a way to use the horse with the ones you feel strongly about in the other races. The idea, of course, is to allow yourself to be wrong in one race, and still cash if you happen to be very smart in the others.

[The Hawk]

I think one of the hardest things about responding to a " what makes a winning player " question, at least for me, is I feel that it takes a certain amount of presumptuousness to even answer the question, as you're immediately EXPECTING people to assume you are in fact a winning player. And believe me, as someone quoted in " Six Secrets of Successful Horseplayers ", I think about this. Do I really have the right to make these comments if I have, say, even one losing year?

I also agree wholeheartedly that handicapping, even though this is absolutely what I pride myself at being very good at, is a mere fraction of what it takes to be a successful player. The truth is that the most financially successful horseplayer I know, and granted lately the rebate has had a lot to do with this but he was always a real winning player, has without question the worst handicapping opinion of any serious player I know. That alone has always given me pause.

The main question becomes do you know what your supposed to do and do you thus do it. For example, I know that I like a horse, let's say he's 5-1, but I can dutch him in exactas with the three horses I consider the main contendors and get 15-1, so I MUST bet all my money in exactas if I " know " these three horses are more than 50% to finish second, should my selection win. Am I emotionally prepared to make this bet and get nothing should my horse win and I fail to hit the exacta? In the long run, if I'm correct that the three chosen horses are over 50% to finish second, I will make more money with the exacta strategy, and that's really all that matters. But, if losing money with a winning selection emotionally screws up my thought process for the rest of the day, am I truly being rewarded over time? Well, no, and this is the reason to be successful you MUST get past the emotional aspect.

Another discussion is multirace wagering where you have to use horses in races that you may not particularly " like ", this is especially true in Pick-6s, as sometimes it's more about staying alive than actually having opinions. This is counterintuitive to a player like me who " prides " himself on having strong convictions. This " pride " has gotten in the way of my making big scores, more so in the past, and learning to get past it is another step in learning to be a successful player....always an ongoing process.

Gotta get to the Aqueduct card.

Great post, Andy.

[banacek]

I
I use my own homemade software developed through much effort around 10 years ago and I have pretty much sworn off tinkering with it after I made some changes last spring and backed them out after two months where my results were less than I would have expected. I let the computer dictate all the plays and generally don't know what type of race it is or who the horses are until after the bets are made. However I still enjoy watching the races and rooting loudly for my horses (although they do not always listen).


sjk,

If you are playing that many races, are you looking at the odds at all (do you use an odds line?) Or do you just bet the horses that have been historically profitable to you?

I'm just curious in your procedure. Do you make a pile of bets at the start of the day and see what happens or are you betting as the races come by using the odds as a guide?

Probably could ask the same question of cj, too!

Thanks

[sjk]

The computer makes an odds line and exacta prices that it needs to play the races. I do not play until a couple of minutes before the race and bet the overlays in the win and exacta pool. I let the computer do the calculations using prices from one of the odds boards on the net and tell me what to bet.

[Fastracehorse]

I've tried to get into this kind of stuff in a lot of my posts.

I'd be very interested in hearing what other players have to say in this thread.

I simply believe that what you put into something is what you'll get out. I'd rather let other people go first in here though....but...

I've been making ends-meet from this game, and I believe I've been very lucky and fortunate to do so--and I'm far from convinced that my good fortune will continue forever. I'm also interested in having a wife and kids at some point---and I'm 100% convinced that I will never be able to balance this game with my family. I'm having all the fun I can be doing this right now, but I think I'm very in-touch with reality...and someday I will take the bankroll and money I've built up from my good fortune...and it will be a gigantic help for me while I work a common job (like most people do) and try to raise a family.

I've had opportunities to leave the game recently...and against sound judgement, I've decided not to. I'm actually in FLA right now, and I'm getting ready for Gulfstream...maybe this could be the meet where all my luck and good fortune run out---and I meet my Waterloo. I have a lot respect for the game, and I'm just willing to do all the tedious work I can, and give myself every edge I can, and just hopefully things work out.

I want to add two opinions of mine---#1. I think a lot of people want to believe this game is much easier than it really is. #2. For God sakes, being someone who tries to make his money and his living betting on horses IS NOT nearly as glamorous as a lot of people think. I love doing this---but as anyone who reads my posts should have noticed by now---I'm 100% BAT-SHIT CRAZY! I think you have to be a little nuts to approach the game with the intensity that I do--and dedicate almost all of your life (the one and only life you get) to it. I'm sorry if I don't make it sound like its a lot of fun, or if I don't make it sound like it's that easy---I guess this game has just never came easy to me.

The fun part, is when you try and meet a girl and she asks you what you do. Instead of saying "I bet on horses" you might as well as just say "I'm unemployed and I live under a bridge" because....well, that's kind of how girls translate that in their heads from my experience.

I don't think you are 100 % B-S-C :)

When you labour intensely at your craft and it is somehow demeaned - that can be very frustrating.

I'll be focusing on the Gulf too - GL.

fffastt

[Rook]

Rook how do you feel the availability of dime etc. supers has affected your profitability. Have the increases in the pools offset for the ability of more punters to spread?

I absolutely hate dime supers. They have cost me a lot of money this year. The 1-2-3-ALL has become quite the rarity and that is my favourite outcome. It wouldn't be bad if I was able to make dime bets but I'm stuck with a $1 minimum, so the players with that opportunity have an advantage over me. When there are a few dime winners and no $1 winner I get pretty disgusted and have scaled back at the tracks where this happens on a frequent basis (ex. Remington).

[keilan]

I’ve tried to be honest and I really hope this comes across the way it’s intended. On 2nd thought it’s somewhat uncomfortable posting this because I don’t want to be perceived negatively by other players here.

I realize that I have far more weaknesses then I have stated but I’ve drawn a blank but I’m sure several will come to me shortly after posting.

My strengths as player imo

a) Identify false and legitimate favorites at an extremely high percentage (90%+)
b) Recognize when horses will and will not move forward (form)
c) Estimating the current ability of each animal
d) Visualizing a race
e) Estimating the pace accurately
f) Unafraid to take a swing when I have a strong opinion
g) Understanding energy which is at the core of my handicapping
h) Above average at structuring tickets in my own mind [hehe see (e) below]
i) Not swayed/influenced by anyone’s opinion of a race (I play me own horses)
j) Willing to learn from good players
k) Finally – a great set of numbers -- thanks cj


My weaknesses as player imo

a) Breeding (not me the horses) :p
b) Don’t keep good enough records
c) Only notes I keep are in my virtual stable
d) Chase my money occasionally
e) Try to be too exact sometimes in wagering
f) Manually handicapping each race (exhausted after 2 cards)
g) Not computer savvy
h) Too many action plays which erodes by bankroll

[kingfin66]

However, there were a bunch of great guys who jumped to my side and rightfully slammed DRF for their crappy customer service. Guys like Tom, andicap, NoDayJob, takeout, kingfin66, keilan, Steve Statman and ShowMetheWire, showed me that there is a good reason to post on this board.


I appreciate you throwing me in with the good guys. There are many other great folks here as well.

I haven't read all that has been written about TLG. Let me relate this one brief, but positive story about him. A few months ago, TLG responded to a post that was made by DerbyTrail (a great contributor). The response was sarcastic but included this little sign :) which I, of course, missed completely. Well, I jumped in to defend DerbyTrail, then TLG responded in a very nice way. In fact, TLG was very gracious to me when I had a lot of egg on my face. I also think of how Tom and TLG did not get along at all on PA but buried the hatchet when they met in person.

My personal opinion is that when we post on the Internet, we are just faceless people hiding behind words and Internet nicknames. In many cases, the words that we type are in no way the words that we speak. I don't know TLG at all, but if I had to guess, I would bet that he is great fun to hang around with and talk racing with. Too many people seem to like and respect him for him to be a real asshole.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it :)

[Zaf]

Great point Kingfin. Over the last 3 years at Saratoga I have met more than 30 people from this board. I have to say they are all great guys. This is a really good place. Maybe there has been a full moon out lately ?

Z

[Vegas711]

It is just very, very hard for me to change my single race strategy to play multi race bets. I just can't seem to put a 7-5 shot on the ticket that I think should be 3 or 4 to 1, and it always seemed to bite me in the ass.

What type of wager is your preference? What % of the time do you only make this bet?

[cj]

I bet Win, Place, Exacta, and occasionally Trifectas, though just as an extension of an exacta bet. For example, I may like a 30-1 to run 2nd or 3rd, like I liked Nolan's Cat in the Belmont. So I played AA / NC exacta and AA / others / NC trifecta. I don't play many combinations in exotics. I played on Pick 3 in the last 6 months, no pick 4s. I did dabble with dime supers a little, and actually am ahead on the bet, but I don't like taking that much time to structure tickets.

[keilan]

I’ve given a “visual” of what my tool box looks look like for handicapping races.

This is akin to “what’s in the bag” segment done at golf tournaments – Joe Golfer // irons by Calloway, Nike driver, Cameron Putter etc.

I’d be interested to learn what’s in your tool box irregardless whether you’re a winning player or not.

[shanta]

I’ve given a “visual” of what my tool box looks look like for handicapping races.

This is akin to “what’s in the bag” segment done at golf tournaments – Joe Golfer // irons by Calloway, Nike driver, Cameron Putter etc.

I’d be interested to learn what’s in your tool box irregardless whether you’re a winning player or not.

Strenghts:

1) Open minded. Always taking in information looking to learn something new that is VALID.
2) Understanding the early/late "opposites attract" concept when structuring exacta tickets.
3) Identifying "false" and "vulnerable" favs.
4) Detailed Records
5) 2 long time WINNERS who tell me the truth when it's not what I want to hear.

Weaknesses:
1) Evaluating current "form"
2) Too many "action" bets
3) Modeling and interpretation of them.
4) Turf races
5) Often "gun shy" at the windows because of some long held family view that "gambling" is for losers. Messes with my head.


Merry Christmas
Richie :)

[joeyspicks]

I’ve tried to be honest and I really hope this comes across the way it’s intended. On 2nd thought it’s somewhat uncomfortable posting this because I don’t want to be perceived negatively by other players here.

I realize that I have far more weaknesses then I have stated but I’ve drawn a blank but I’m sure several will come to me shortly after posting.

My strengths as player imo

a) Identify false and legitimate favorites at an extremely high percentage (90%+)
b) Recognize when horses will and will not move forward (form)
c) Estimating the current ability of each animal
d) Visualizing a race
e) Estimating the pace accurately
f) Unafraid to take a swing when I have a strong opinion
g) Understanding energy which is at the core of my handicapping
h) Above average at structuring tickets in my own mind [hehe see (e) below]
i) Not swayed/influenced by anyone’s opinion of a race (I play me own horses)
j) Willing to learn from good players
k) Finally – a great set of numbers -- thanks cj


My weaknesses as player imo

a) Breeding (not me the horses) :p
b) Don’t keep good enough records
c) Only notes I keep are in my virtual stable
d) Chase my money occasionally
e) Try to be too exact sometimes in wagering
f) Manually handicapping each race (exhausted after 2 cards)
g) Not computer savvy
h) Too many action plays which erodes by bankroll

Keilan: good post (& honest evaluaton of your strengths/weakness's)

I have a pretty good handle on your strong points a,b,c,d,e
point f....I play the same....all bets are looked at as "equal" in my money management sequence (not all the same amount....but I dont try to "prejudge" the play...I just play it.
i. I agree/ I make my own decisions.
j. I'm ALWAYS in learning mode.....my atitude is: I have a lot to learn and have an open mind.....at the same time I must proceed with what I KNOW works for me at this time.

I do keep very good records....which I constantly am evaluating

Weakness:

a. Breeding.....yeah A BIG weakness for me

d. my BIGGEST weakness is when Im ahead !!!
I'm tempted by all sorts of things I wouldnt consider when I'm behind!:D


f. even though I plunged into computer capping I STILL manually handicap....I cannot get the same "feel" handicapping by computer? (only way I can describe it)
still looking for ways to cut down the time factor

h. I CUT OUT "ACTION PLAYS" a long time ago....a play is a play or its not ...however I DO still fall for things like tri's and occasionally pk3 pk6 when Im ahead (see d.)
Most play is win, win/place , parlays, exactas,

i. another weakness is I will sometimes play on a "off" track..muddy, sloppy, etc even though all my records indicate I really do not do that well. After doing most of my capping the night before and finding the track sloppy..I sometimes just go ahead and play anyway....almost always to my dismay!

[Lefty]

drugsal says: The fun part, is when you try and meet a girl and she asks you what you do. Instead of saying "I bet on horses" you might as well as just say "I'm unemployed and I live under a bridge" because....well, that's kind of how girls translate that in their heads from my experience.
__________________
Drugsal, don't tell her you are a horseplayer.
Just tell her you are in short term Equine Investments.