irs tickets

[smf]

Was cruising around the HTR bbs and saw Hurrikane's question about IRS requirements. I don't post over there but thought I'd answer him here, and it's a question I hear at the track often. Hopefully PA won't mind me commenting here.

He was wondering about the 300-1/ $600 rule. Easy way to remember the rule is that if you hit a $600.00- $1199.00 trifecta (or exacta, pik3, etc) w/ a $1 ticket, no IRS report is necessary. If you have a tri/ exacta for $600.00- $1199.00 on a $2 ticket, it must be reported.

Any 'exotic' wager over $1,200.00 is an automatic signer.

Always bust your tix down to multiple $1 tix if possible on tri's and such.

For straight wagers, anything under $5,000 is safe. Any ticket of any kind cashed in excess of $5,000 has, automatically, 28% witheld at the windows with a IRS reportable form to sign. Not many businesses can survive that kind of taxation but that's another gripe for another day.....

Don't know the exact rule but I do know that call-a-bet always has sent me a W2 to sign for my $1 tri wins that exceed $600.

No taxes withheld, just the W2

[smf]

mr dezo,

I've had that conversation with Shirl (at Ladbroke) before. They swear by it (over $600) . Not sure why b/c I've cashed a bunch of tri tix between 600-1199 bucks on $1 tix at the track.

For FG turf races that I think I have a shot at a small score, I go to LS and place the turf tri wagers. I've hit an $1195 tri ticket on multiple one dollar tix, cashed them at the window and none were reported. I've hit a few like that at the track and never had a problem, even at the SAMS.

If you hit one over 1200 bucks, you have to sign. No way around it.

[RECON]

I HIT A EXACTA FOR 740 ON A $1 TICKET AT ARLINGTON AND I HAD TO SIGN------ NO IRS TAKEOUT BUT I HAD TO SIGN

[JimG]

In my state, you have to sign for any $1 bet that pays $600+. No taxes taken out but it is reported.


Jim

[smf]

RECON, Jim G,

This is interesting. The fact that a track made these as "signers" is odd.

The rule/ law reads "300-1 odds and $600" I've been told. The key word in that rule is *and*. At least that's what a guy told me that I used to meet at Lone Star's simo. I've seen him hit a couple of $800-900 tri's on $1 tix and he didn't have to sign either.

Also, I heard one of Roger Stein's guests (dodge allen, or one of those guys) state that "you s/ always break down tri and pick3 tix to $1 amounts if at all possible". So apparently it's not just a Texas thing.

In all honesty, I'd ask your track's mgmnt why they're having people sign for the $1 tix under 1200 bucks ($2 ticket). Don't know if it'll do any good. I couldn't get Ladbroke's attention, that's for sure.

[hurrikane]

smf..thanks for the attention. I'm a little confused here..just want to make things clear. You said

'In all honesty, I'd ask your track's mgmnt why they're having people sign for the $1 tix under 1200 bucks ($2 ticket). '

Are you talking about a $2 ticket paying 1200. That would be 600 for the $1 ticket. That would mean that anything under 1200 on a $2 ticket would pay out less than 600 for a $1 ticket. That should not be a signer, correct? Is that what you are saying. That would make sense to play the $1 ticket and that is how I understood it to be but there always seems to be some confusion. Wondering if you have 10 $1 tickets for $599 do you cash at diff windows or does it not matter.
Do online shops (I use winticket) report everything to the IRS or just signers.

As with most things in the goverment no one seems to follow one set of rules...take our money and make it diffucult on us to boot

[smf]

Hurrikane,

Sorry for the confusion. I was talking about asking your track why one should have to sign (for example) a $1 tri ticket that paid $750 on a $2 ticket (which w/ pay you 375 bucks at the windows). At LS that's not a signer.

You can definitely cash the multiple tix (just like the ticket I described above) at the same window, no problem. I asked the teller when I did cash multiple tix ($1195) if this would be reportable and she said "if the ticket goes thru, it's good. If not, you'll have to sign." They all went thru. Whatever is considered a "non-reportable wager" will go thru the tote.

Everyone I've spoken to here in TX agrees that's in accordance w/ what the law/ rule reads. Apparently at other places (and Ladbroke's and winticket) it doesn't work that way. Don't know why.

I'm sure that if the irs went to winticket and asked for someone's wagering log, they'd hand it over. Don't know if they c/ be stopped from doing so.

My first reaction to RECON and Jim G's posts about their states asking to sign for these wagers was 'do they live in states that have you file for state income taxes'? Perhaps their states required reporting beyond what we do here (no state income tax). That doesn't seem fair nor legal so I don't know if that's the deal.

[Rick Ransom]

Yeah,

I hit one over $600 a couple of years ago on a $1 pick 3 (at the DRF Christmas party actually, but I won't elaborate), and didn't have to report it.

[Mr.Blonde]

if you had a ticket that paid over $10,000+ how would you get paid?

Cash from the track?

A check?

[Zman179]

Boy, talking about bringing a thread back from the dead!

[Mr.Blonde]

Zman -


I was using the "search" function to flesh out a short story I am writing in which one of the characters hits it big at the track.......

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8859

[Equineer]

The 2005 IRS requirement for preparation of a W-2G to report horseracing payouts is: "winnings are reportable if the amount paid reduced, at the option of the payer, by the wager is (a) $600 or more and (b) at least 300 times the amount of the wager."

Thus, for a $600.50 return from a $1-denominated wager, some payers will prepare a W-2G while others may not.

Moreover, a W-2G could be required on a Dime Super or any other wager denomination.

[Zaf]

Here are your names... Mr. Brown, Mr. White, Mr. Blonde, Mr. Blue, Mr. Orange, and Mr. Pink.

Why am I Mr. Pink?

Because you're a f*****, all right?

Yeah, that's easy for you to say. You're Mr. White. You have a cool sounding name. All right look, if it's no big deal to be Mr. Pink, you wanna trade?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

ZAFONIC

[Mr.Blonde]

Hey, nobody's trading with anybody. This ain't a goddamn f*cking city council meeting, you know. Now listen up, Mr. Pink. There's two ways you can go on this job-- my way or the highway. Now what's it going to be, Mr. Pink?

[fishorsechess]

????

[PaceAdvantage]

I guess you never saw Reservoir Dogs?

[ElKabong]

As much as I hate the idea of 10cent supers, I guess the one nice thing of em is you can dance around the IRS forever w/ em. A $5,000 superfcta payout (per $2 payout) only returns $250 on a dime bet. The irs won't see any $$ from that. Break your tix into 10 ea dime supers and you'll collect your $2,500 (250 x10), w/o reporting on w2g's.

Problem is, at a track like LS the lines can get pretty damn long. Count your tix to make sure ya have 10 of em (stalling those behind in line) and you're likely to get tossed to the rear by a pissed off bettor. :D

Looking at this thread now, I always have to catch myself when talking to west coasters on the rule of 300-1 and $600...I'm used to talking $2 payouts ($800 pays= $400 on a buck), out there on the west coast it's all $1 payouts. When I talk to a friend at the track about payoffs it's always in $2 increments, here. Not out west, tho.

[Dick Schmidt]

Mr. Blond,


Regarding your $10,000 payoff, it would depend on the size of the track. I know at Hollywood or Santa Anita, they have no problem with $60,000 cash payouts, and will even give you a tote bag to carry the loot, plus an armed guard to walk you to your car. At smaller tracks, especially when a lot of the handle is from off track sites which send in the bets electronically, a check is the general rule. Most will do cash, but you might have to wait a day or two while they get the dough together. A check is no big deal, since the IRS (and maybe your local paper) already know all about it.


Dick

"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

[Mr.Blonde]

Thanks Dick. Adding a "local newspaper" angle might make my story even more interesting.


I'll let you guys know if any magazine or outlet buys this story.

[DJofSD]

Mr. Blonde said:

if you had a ticket that paid over $10,000+ how would you get paid?

Cash from the track?

A check?

There was a couple of guys at HOL years ago that hit the P6. Something in the order of >$100,000. They took it as cash, hopped a cab to LAX for a weekend in Vegas.

They got to LAX and were held up at gun point. One was shot and killed. Some of the rest of the details are a little fuzzy.

For goodness sake, take a check!

DJofSD

[fishorsechess]

And he opened his big mouth to the whole world ( and a crook)
that he hit the 100K winning ticket.