Pic 3 methodology

[Steverr1]

**I am in hope that these reminders will help those who need them. I am not smart enough to have invented any of these basic approaches. Some have a small twist as I have tweaked a few things that have helped me. In my opinion, these types of approaches will benefit those who are having difficulty isolating a horse to win.



For those people I would say if you insist on wagering and are losing then give this play some thought. It will give you action and excitement in at least three races at the track. As you may know many tracks have rolling pic 3’s so look for the one (s) that meet the guidelines below.
There are two many situations to describe that can set up this play. A simple one may be two cheap claiming races before an allowance race that has the top trainer and top rider as the ML favorite in the last leg. While playing a win bet on the allowance horse is definitely a bad value and wager. It may not be a bad pic 3 play. Think about it. One horse is likely selected for you and it’s possible to go very deep in the first two legs and end up with a profit. It happens. Back check a few at your Track of choice and see. The pic 3 may be your ticket to turn things around.**







Below is something I wrote several years ago for a newsletter and likely is Old Hat to many of you. While many people have written about similar methods, a question I still get asked a lot is how (or if) I play the pic 3's. My guess is that there are a few here who could be reminded of this wager and the proper approach.
PIC 3 METHODOLOGY

Best Wagering scheme for the Pic 3

Consider:

Your 1st choice x 3 x 3 = $9

3 x Your 1st Choice x 3 =$9

3 x 3 x Your 1st Choice =$9
________

Total $27.00

By using your first choice in all three legs -if you are right- you will capture and win 3 Pic 3’s!

You can add as many horses as necessary in each different leg (increasing the amount of the ticket), but you should always attempt to isolate your key horse with the other two legs regardless of how many horses you use in the other legs. Your goal will be to cash all three tickets.

HOW I PLAY MY SELECTIONS IN THE PIC 3

The first step is that I put my potential selections in three columns:

A B C

I put all my top rated picks in Column “A” All the horses that I consider a threat to Column A horses go in Column “B”. Finally, any long shot that I consider goes into Column “C”.

In some races I only have horses in “A” and in other races I have horses in all three columns.

Example:
Leg 1

A

B

C



2

2

1 = 5 Possible



Leg 2

A

B

C



2

1

0 = 3 Possible



Leg 3

A

B

C



3

2

1 = 6 Possible

In this example there are 5 x 3 x 6 possible selections to win.

It would cost $90 ($1 Pic 3) to buy this particular ticket to seek just one winning ticket that only pays one half of a Pic 3. Bad Deal!

Instead I want to have multiple tickets. First, I will play the combination listed above using my top ranked horse in each leg for the $27 play.

I then play combinations of horses using horses from each column. Below is a partial example of some combinations:

Combinations:

1

A-A-B

2

AB-AB-AB

3

A-A-C

4

AC-AC-AC

5

A-B-B

6

AA-AA-AAA

7

A-B-C

8

AA-AA –AC

If I were only able to get the selections down to 1 or 2 favorites then I would likely deduce that others would also, therefore killing the pool.

On the other hand if 5 is the best number I can come up with in a race then the race is very contentious and may set the way for a monster payout. Remember that I limit myself to those Pic 3 races, which appear to contain false favorites in two of the legs.

Another way to define my columns after handicapping the races is to put all the top rated Speed Horses in each leg of the Pic 3 in column “A”.

Then Class Horses in another, and finally any other important handicapping factor at my track in the last column. After playing several combinations of the columns as in the examples listed above I have caught and cashed many tickets.

I only do this if one area such as speed seems to be dominating. Mixing class and late speed in several tickets with speed (if that is the dominate factor) often pays very well.

For the most part this mixing bet with speed etc. is fun and best played when well ahead. I mention it only as a fun bet rather than a primary bet. No mixture can take the place of sound handicapping methods.

I would also imagine that you have your finger on value as you compute each ticket. Don’t get caught up with the mix so much that you spend $100 attempting to win a ticket and end up with either less than you wagered or nothing. Always consider value.

Consider this Pic 3 12-09-2003 at Philadelphia:

In the 8th race beginning leg of the Pic 3 I had 4 possibles in my columns.

2 in A,
1 in B,
1 in C

In the 9th race I had 5

and in the 10th I had only 1 in the A column.

Leg 1 possibilities were heavy so I figured the payout may be decent, but the bullet in the 10th worried me. I considered that maybe many others decided to play an ALL-ALL-with the bullet and lower the take.
My thoughts were that with the bullet in the last leg a winning ticket would pay about $250.00. One other Leg was difficult in that the favorite appeared fit and ready, but I thought he might be a little short, consequently making him a possible false favorite. A close call, but I eventually convinced myself that he could get beat today.


Take Note….



Our handicapping has convinced us that in a Pic 3 we believe that only one leg will be won by the favorite and best of all worlds it is the last leg. Better yet we like the horse in the last leg so much we will not back any other horse other than this bullet.



Now what do we do? We look for VALUE. In other words how can we maximize our profits? What is the most we are willing to wager against what we possibly can get in return. Will the possible profit be worth the risk?



In the end when I considered the risk versus the possible take I decided on the following wager:

4 x 5 x 1= for $20.00

I felt comfortable that going 4 and then 5 deep excluding a false favorite would cash so I bought multiples. The winning horses paid:

$12.40--$71.40--$3.80 the Pic 3 paid $1,027.00 for a $2 ticket.

My “B” horse paid $71.40 to win, but at the time I had no idea that any horses in my mix would go off with those type of odds. Sometimes you just never know…


Steve

[the little guy]

So, in other words, you have taken Steve Crist's Pick-6 wagering strategy, something he has written about for years, and applied it to Pick-3s....and spent a hell of a lot more time and words than necessary explaining it.

Sometimes, in fact most times, more is less.

[Dave Schwartz]

Steve,

Thanks for taking the time.

Personally, I have never been a multi-race exotic player because I depend so much upon the odds.

Keep this up, please.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[douglasw32]

Cool thanks for the detailed explanation, as for it being some other strategy published (WHO KNEW ? ) well you did because you said at the beginning it had been repeated with a twist...but I didn't, never have seen it and if so skipped right over it as a pick six strategy. No sense in playing oick 6's with 2 bucks ;)

I doubt I'll even play a pick 3 but...I like the details of how you (others) do it, instead of some big secret no one else has. I think that is the COOLEST part of this whole message board thingy ;)

A community of like minded people.

[joeyspicks]

Steve,

Nice explanation. I also (like Dick) play few multiplay exotics....but enjoyed the "article" explaining your thinking about pk 3's.

I play more parlays myself ( I get to pick the races !) . I like the flexablity and knowing the odds Im getting. Have you ever applied these type stratagies to parlay play ?

[JackS]

Steve- Thanks, I enjoy the thought out structure you place on your pick 3's.
I really do enjoy this type bet because it is such a natural to want to hit with the horse that actually wins.
As a small bettor, I never miss playing a DD and have had some success with P'3s also. My problem is always hindsight. I go to the track thinking of playing DD/P3's and wind up playing too many exacta's. Had I kept to my game plan, I believe I would have been much better off.
My thought is- It's much easier to pick a winning horse than it is to pick a horse to run second. The winning horse almost always has something going for him, the place and show types are too often a complete crap shoot.
Your post is a reminder to me and others that exoctic plays to win only may be the best bet of all.
Now if only I can keep to a game plan.
I might add that even a straight bet i.e- A-A-A might in the very long run produce a profit and might be considered by some players here as an adjunct to their normal ex/tri/and super plays.
As you stated, some thought as to the logical and ill-logical favorites must be incorporated.

[Steverr1]

Littleman,

"In other words"….come on Littleman....
Who cares where it comes from if it stimulates thoughts. I am willing to learn from you. I don't know it all, have never made those claims. All I can share with anyone is what others have taught me via print or on the job training. I cannot take credit for anything other than the way I apply this information.

As an example there is a guy who I observed for a few days at a track I was attending. He didn't know me, but I knew him very well. At the time I was using his software almost exclusively to make my final selections. I was, and still am impressed with his software although I don’t use it as much as I did a few years ago.

But at that time I called him before I left for my trip to his home track and asked if we could meet up. He said “NO”. He went on to tell me that if he met everyone that asked he would spend all his time at the track and never have time to write software.

Disappointed I was, but what the heck.

At the track I was doing very well because I had found several modules that when compared seem to reveal the winner in sprint races uncannily. As I recall most were 6-1 or under, but I wasn’t complaining.

On the last day I was there the GM introduced me to this handicapper and software writer who was there with his wife. I said hello to him but he was so busy with the races that I didn’t want to interrupt him. Occasionally we used the same teller and I admit I couldn’t resist asking what he played. I was amazed to learn that we had come to different selections almost every time I asked.

At the end of the day I passed by him and asked how he had done. He told me not to good and of course asked me the same. That day I cashed 3 pic 6’s for 15K each and had scored very well with other bets AND my horse won 60K in a Stakes race. In my reply I let him know about my hits. He simply said very good and we parted.

Now “LittleGuy” does this mean that I am smarter? I will tell you straight out that there is no way I could accomplish what he has written. No Way! It’s just my way of seeing the world I suppose. I would suggest that with all the information many of us over handicap from time to time. Everyday we reflect back on a race and say to ourselves ‘how come I didn’t see that before the race?’ One reason is that there is so much out there it gets confusing what is relevant to that particular race or style of race.

By the way, Gary Hall if you are on this forum you may recall that day.

Littleman, I would welcome any insights you have to this sport. I am sharing mine, and you don’t have to listen, but I will listen to you or anyone else on this or other forum who gets me to thinking of how to do something better. I am once again only sharing methods of betting at the track that prove to work for me. Maybe as I progress with my ideas you may find something that hasn’t already be written about somewhere.

[the little guy]

Funny, for a person so seemingly above everyone else, it didn't take you long to lower yourself to making up nicknames for other posters.

I'm afraid if I " shared " any insights with you they would show up on the next board you haunt as your own. No thanks.

[Steverr1]

The Little Guy,


Sorry. I assure you it was a mistake and not purpose. Too busy writing about horse stuff and got the wrong name in my head.

Steve

[the little guy]

To quote Tom......I was born at night, but not last night.

You are entertaining, I'll give you that.

[Steverr1]

Did you know….

That of a sampling of 631 Sprint races at Hollywood

exactly 42% won from 1-3 post

exactly 42% won from 4-7 post



exactly 48% won with “E” speed



---E/1-7 post (Not practical-just stimulating thought)



224 race sampling for Route races:

44% won from post 1-3

50% won from 4-7 post



46% won with “E” speed



For your exacta’s in Route races there is a slight Place difference-- 49% in the 1-3 post as opposed to 41% in the 4-7 post.



AQUEDUCT--Main



367 sprint races reveal almost exactly the same information as Hollywood.



Dirt routes are better.



314 races revealed that 38% won from the 1-3 post but

51% won from the 4-7 post



38% won with “E” speed while EP, P, & S were evenly spread.



Obviously some thought should go to E/4-7 play every time it occurs on a race card.



The exactas favor the 1-3 post for place at 50%. The 4-7 post gets 37%.



INNER



Dirt Sprints with 306 samplings 1-3 get 49% while the 4-7 gets 39%.

The “E” style gets 56% wins

Dirt Routes were pretty much the same from posts 1-7

However for the exacta’s “S” horses place at 44% while all other styles are about even.



In my opinion there are many ways to employ this simple type of information. I have this for almost all tracks and at times it can serve to separate ties.

[analyzer]

Why is it when someone makes an attempt to explain thoughts, ideas, or information and how they use it, someone tries to say things to irritate piss off or accuse them of stealing something. If you do not like it, why not just not read it. How many of us have an abundance of original thoughts and ideas on handicapping someone has not used or in some way implemented in the past. I thought the purpose of this forum was to share thoughts and ideas and hopefully assist one another since we have a common interest? Maybe we should start a thread entitled Court is in Session. In this thread post anything you want and have all who want to chastise, critcize, ridicule, or convict go to this thread and take this hostility out on those things posted in that thread. If you have a question or do not understand, ask? I do not understand what it is in some folks lives causing the need to be so bitter and critical when someone is trying to be helpful? If it does not help you, don't pay attention, but please don't irritate those who are trying to help because some do appreciate this type information and those of us who do would appreciate those who don't not running these people off. If you do not agree why not try to add something positive and point out why you disagree. A positive influence is much better than a negative influence. Sorry I just do not understand why some feel the need for this to be a Bully Pulpit.

[Light]

Steve

Got to give you credit for your comeback. Got a couple of questions. They're not loaded.

1)When you said you made a million dollars,was that gross or net? And did that include winnings as an owner?
2) In the closed thread you said:

2. I don’t have any software of my own doing. I use and have used many different ones to get to my goals. I have been an Always user from the beginning. In addition I use HTR, and ALL IN One to some degree. HTR and ALLWays regurgitate Bris and DRF information into their own fields and each have found ways to call their information another name. There are a few more, but these are the main ones that I use. Just recently I have begun experimenting with JCapper so his may also become a staple for me.

No offense intended,but the above paragraph sounds like you're terribly scattered and unsure in your handicapping approach to have earned a million dollars. Can you clarify this?

[Steverr1]

Light,

Very Valid questions. Net is the answer. If you will send me an email address I will send you an attachment that I have been working on that you may enjoy.
steve@idca.com

In regards to the software recall that my first post was regarding just that. I posted that I would put real money behind software and post the results. Why? Because I am always seeking knowledge. If I felt that I have learned everything about this sport then I would be a liar and so bored I would move on to something else. I love to experiment. Thats as simple as I know how to answer.

Steve

[Vegas711]

Steve.


There always is going to be one pain in the ASS when you use a forum. This forum has an ignore button. I use it for a few people who post here becouse they are a royal pain in my ass. Don't waste your time explaining anything to these people. You can say that the sun will rise tommorow and they will argue, the thing is these people RESENT ANYONE WHO WINS and they want them to feel negative about themselves like they do about themselves.


Keep on posting, 90 % of the people who visit here are not a pain in the ass, they are looking to learn new twists in this game. Again the Ignore button you may find as a good thing.

[fight]

i agree vegas .... :mad:

[cj]

I honestly think you guys have lost it! Someone please tell me what this guy has offered here of value? A regurgitated P3 system that has been floating around since the day after P3s were offered? Or was it the "use my 5-2 shot in the super" tip? The offer to test any and all software, which I don't think ever led anywhere?

Maybe it was the 1/4% incremental betting technique? Maybe it was the alleged "8 for 8" picks at Tampa, though I don't see that either. The picks were pretty good, but hardly 8 for 8 by most rational person's scoring systems. I really am baffled.

Only thing I can figure is the he has gotten a few tips from the Pied Piper, and we know where his followers ended up.

[Vegas711]

CJ. I was not referring to you in my last post.


I think we have to give new people time, let time do the telling.

[toetoe]

Steve and tlg,

The guy's reference is valid, except that Crist did not invent it. Like Al Gore, he just developed and publicized it.

As to the method, some fat can be trimmed. Besides the two extra dollars spent trying to hit all three main horses, six more are "wasted" going after two mains and then two backups in the other leg. A quick diagram:

A over B,C // D over E,F // X over Y,Z. Now A // D // X you have three times. Not a huge problem, only two dollars, but not necessary. About 6% or 7% of the ticket that can be trimmed. The bigger problem is that these combos are repeated: A // E,F // X; B,C // D // X; ans A //D // YZ. Six dollars better saved for the next good bet. For $19, you can cover the three heats this way. I've heard it called a miss-two, meaning you can hit one main and still cash, provided you have the other two winners among your contenders.

To calculate the cost of a miss-two, multiply all contenders, then subtract the product of all backups. In this case, with one over two // one over two // one over two, it's 27 minus 8, or $19. If you love a race, you can single your main in another race, if it's a jumble. For example, 2 over 2 // 1 over 9 // 2 over 2. This would cost 160 minus 36, or $124. That trims over 22% from the ticket and, if you love your top picks in legs 1 and/or 3, you've covered leg 2 without worrying too much about who wins. In the unlikely event that your mains lose the other two legs, AND your backups DO win, you still have a slim shot with your main in leg 2.

This method almost got me a nice payoff on BC Day. I had Intercontinental as a backup, suffered a tough beat with Taste Of Paradise, a main, and had Artie Schiller as a backup. Not only did I not have Silver Train as a backup, I didn't have him AT ALL. So, two big decisions after you choose your sequence are, to separate the contenders from the no-hopers, and then separate contenders into top picks and backups. Why spend good money hooking up marginal, "saver" types when we can keep costs down with common sense, backing up our opinions? Too contentious? Maybe wait for a better sequence.

[the little guy]

I just want to be clear, this board is about agreeing or keeping your mouth shut? Is that what I'm to understand? If that's the case, fine, good to know.

And let me add that while I clearly have issues with the originator of this thread none of them have anything to do with jealousy. I am quite confident that I know more successful horseplayers than most here, some I am friendly with and many I am not, and I am not jealous of any of them. I respect their success as I truly understand how hard it is to come by. I just happen to be skeptical of internet braggerts. Call me crazy.

I am still waiting to hear the answer to someone's earlier question....which is basically whether or not Steve is claiming to have cashed for over a million dollars or whether he is actually claiming to have profitted over a million dollars from betting on horse races this year.

I would also like to have just one person I know in the industry claim to have heard of this gargantuan winner. So far I'm pitching a shut-out.

[Steverr1]

Toetoe,

Thanks for the great post. I definately learned from it and you also triggered a thought that I am going to check out with some back testing. Thanks for the insight and trimming!

Steve

[the little guy]

By the way, just so I'm not only griping in this thread, I will share some of my Pick-3 wagering thoughts.

While I think it is a great action/entertainment bet, when I play it seriously, I prefer the following scenerio....

I choose a race where I have a strong opinion and single that horse. With most tracks offering rolling Pick-3s, I have three possible sequences to choose from. Sometimes I will play one or two of them ( more often one ) and occasionally all three, with a relative disbursement of my wagering dollars considering how I feel about each situation. I look for the sequence where I am against a favorite in one race ( and can thus use several while still getting value ) and feel I can narrow the other race down to 2-3 contendors ( where hopefully at least one is a solid price ). I will also play multiple tickets which weigh different horses in the non-singled legs more heavily than others. To simplify this, lets say my basic ticket is 1 x 4 x 3, but I will probably have four tickets, as I will press 2 of the 4 in the second leg and 2 of the 3 in the third, thus I will have a 1 x 4 x 3, a 1 x 4 x 2, a 1 x 2 x 3 and a 1 x 2 x 2, or 30 total units.

I believe that strategy gives me the best chance to make a decent score with a horse I like, certainly greatly enhancing his win odds, if my opinions are at least reasonable in the other legs. It is really just an extension of how I believe one should play exactas....which is if you like a horse that's say 4-1 and you feel strongly that you can make a weighted spread play using 3 or even 4 horses for second and get 8-1 if you're correct then you should play exactas if you feel the horses you have chosen for second are over 50% to run second. I realize it may be an oversimplification but it's just an example.

[twindouble]

By the way, just so I'm not only griping in this thread, I will share some of my Pick-3 wagering thoughts.

While I think it is a great action/entertainment bet, when I play it seriously, I prefer the following scenerio....

I choose a race where I have a strong opinion and single that horse. With most tracks offering rolling Pick-3s, I have three possible sequences to choose from. Sometimes I will play one or two of them ( more often one ) and occasionally all three, with a relative disbursement of my wagering dollars considering how I feel about each situation. I look for the sequence where I am against a favorite in one race ( and can thus use several while still getting value ) and feel I can narrow the other race down to 2-3 contendors ( where hopefully at least one is a solid price ). I will also play multiple tickets which weigh different horses in the non-singled legs more heavily than others. To simplify this, lets say my basic ticket is 1 x 4 x 3, but I will probably have four tickets, as I will press 2 of the 4 in the second leg and 2 of the 3 in the third, thus I will have a 1 x 4 x 3, a 1 x 4 x 2, a 1 x 2 x 3 and a 1 x 2 x 2, or 30 total units.

I believe that strategy gives me the best chance to make a decent score with a horse I like, certainly greatly enhancing his win odds, if my opinions are at least reasonable in the other legs. It is really just an extension of how I believe one should play exactas....which is if you like a horse that's say 4-1 and you feel strongly that you can make a weighted spread play using 3 or even 4 horses for second and get 8-1 if you're correct then you should play exactas if you feel the horses you have chosen for second are over 50% to run second. I realize it may be an oversimplification but it's just an example.

Big Guy, I've been doing pretty much the same thing sense the pick 3 came out, their is times when I find the need to go deeper in an open race, more value. If I feel strong on two races, I go for more tickets, it all depends on how I see the races, but your example is the norm.

[the little guy]

Big Guy, I've been doing pretty much the same thing sense the pick 3 came out, their is times when I find the need to go deeper in an open race, more value. If I feel strong on two races, I go for more tickets, it all depends on how I see the races, but your example is the norm.
Ya know, Twin, I would hope it is the norm, and always assumed so. But, around here I seem to be often surprised that what you or I might think of as obvious gets lauded as some sort of brilliant innovation. I'm not trying to be insulting and would be happy to share more insights, I just don't want to appear to me some know-it-all who is merely spouting what everyone already knows. Truly that is why I am loathe to offer these supposed insights as I feel like I am insulting people's intelligence by suggesting something I just take for granted everyone knows.

The truth is that none of this stuff is particularly complicated. It is really nothing more than common sense.

[twindouble]

Ya know, Twin, I would hope it is the norm, and always assumed so. But, around here I seem to be often surprised that what you or I might think of as obvious gets lauded as some sort of brilliant innovation. I'm not trying to be insulting and would be happy to share more insights, I just don't want to appear to me some know-it-all who is merely spouting what everyone already knows. Truly that is why I am loathe to offer these supposed insights as I feel like I am insulting people's intelligence by suggesting something I just take for granted everyone knows.

The truth is that none of this stuff is particularly complicated. It is really nothing more than common sense.

That's why I started a beginners thread besides I get intimidated by all the brains that are here as you know English isn't my best subject.

Happy Holidays, Big guy.

[midnight]

Steven Crist didn't originate any of the pick six strategies he published. What he published is probably fourth-generation, behind such as John Noble, Ed Kramer, Gordon Jones, Steve Davidowitz, Andy Beyer, "Ray Taulbot", and even Francis Bacon (circa 1953, who suggested a key1 x 4 and 4 x key2 $16 DD cross-wheel).

As for those of you who seem to have a wild hair for Steverr1, I might remind you that not everybody here is so knowledgeable, worldly, wise, and savvy as you are about racing/handicapping/etc. We have a lot of people here (mostly lurkers, but some who post) who are relative beginners and who will actually LEARN from Steverr1's somewhat (in my opinion) basic presentations. What's basic to you might be inspirational to others. I haven't seen anything so unsound that it would actually hurt anybody (the inverted progession isn't the greatest idea, but the stoplimits on it will keep anybody from going overboard), and so far the man hasn't tried to sell anything. If and when he does, you can be sure that I'll be at the front of the line to challenge it. Until then, some of you might want to CHILL OUT and give the man some room. If what he writes about isn't your cup of tea, then drive on by. If it seems simple to you, then chalk it up to the necessary evil of having to sift through everything to get the few useful things. It might be somebody else's cup of tea, and it might be useful to somebody else.

To reiterate, I don't believe PA's intention of having this forum is limited to the worldly wise to espouse amongst themselves. It's also here for the less-learned to benefit from.

That's my opinion, and yours may differ.

[BetHorses!]

Steve,

I asked you about a rebate in another thread. Do you receive a rebate on any bets you make at any racetrack? If not why?

Thank you

[the little guy]

I never meant to insinuate that Steve Crist originated that method. I never felt it was original and apologize if that's how it seemed. I was merely pointing out that it was " old hat ".

I understand what you, and others, are saying about Steve. But remember something, and I think this is important, this poster blasted into the room with claims of almost unheard of success ( not known since the days the sheets first came out and one particularly large player reaped enormous rewards ) for a player claiming not to get a rebate. Keeping this in mind, I believe THAT is why some of us take exception to him merely repeating basic betting strategy. None of us are interfering with threads about basics of handicapping. What we are effectively wondering is how any of his strategies can possibly be transformed into the magic elixor we believe required to make seven figures annually at the track. Is this really so unfair?

Honestly, if you came here and told everyone you make millions at the track annually, would you be shocked if some posters were up in arms? Nobody forced him to make those claims.

[the little guy]

Steve,

I asked you about a rebate in another thread. Do you receive a rebate on any bets you make at any racetrack? If not why?

Thank you
This was probably the first thing I asked and he claimed he didn't.

[douglasw32]

Seriously I am not being a wise ass or flaming anyone... how about, and i would fit into this cat...the owner of the board make an area for us newbies, the ones that are learning, that don't use or understand every nuance but like to have things "told" to us for "us" to decide what to keep and what to toss....

Then it is not cluttering up all the Big Time posters who have allready gone over it a gazillion times for themselves?

justa thought that might be a solid addition to an allready great place to hang out.

[xfile]

Toetoe,

Thanks for the great post. I definately learned from it and you also triggered a thought that I am going to check out with some back testing. Thanks for the insight and trimming!

Steve

Ok my 3 cents here. Somebody who spells the simple and well used word "definitely" incorrectly could possibly be a sham of a millionaire. However I don't like to judge people without a fair trial. Even O.J. got a fair trial ;). So let's see what happens in the weeks to come. Remember - a person putting on a hypocritical show will always hang himself if given enough rope. Conversely - the creme de la creme will always rise to the top. :cool:

[chickenhead]

There is a newbie area, it is located under the "Search" tab. This also just by happenstance is where the advanced stuff is located as well.

In the past year and a half I have come up with dozens and dozens of questions, ideas, schemes, etc. Every time I go to the search bar, and just about every time I find it has been discussed AT LENGTH here before, all the leads I could ever need.

Pretty much regardless of what you are interested in, it has been covered here by some very smart people. I have noticed they often only cover the subject once...thankfully they are still there for all to see, just have to dig a little.

Any newbies...chances are the answers you need have already been provided. Just look them up, this board puts AskJeeves all to hell.

[Steverr1]

Never received any rebates of any sort.

Money claimed is NET and still growing

I did win Two Claiming Crowns with my claims

I was top owner at Canterbury both years I raced there

I am not bothered by criticism and did not leave the forum because of the bash

I am not naïve about the Internet. I was the First ISP ever in the Tampa Bay/Clearwater/St. Petersburg/Sarasota area. At the time I couldn’t even get a Yellow Page heading.

Having been around awhile I also knew I would cause a stir and have no problem being outspoken. We all learn fast in such conditions.

Kenwoodallproms on the forum suggested that an internet search would clear the air for those who really wanted to know something about me. Several others did just that.

I have a post coming up that is sure to get the attention of many and the flames will be hot. Hopefully something beneficial will become of it.

[joeyspicks]

steve:I have a post coming up that is sure to get the attention of many and the flames will be hot. Hopefully something beneficial will become of it.
.................................................. ..............................................

Although I've apologize for laughing at your first post and wondered openly concerning your motivation......

Is THIS your REASON for posting? to stir the pot? upset some "losers"
..............or to shake the very paradigm some are thinking within ?

still wondering?

[twindouble]

Ok my 3 cents here. Somebody who spells the simple and well used word "definitely" incorrectly could possibly be a sham of a millionaire. However I don't like to judge people without a fair trial. Even O.J. got a fair trial ;). So let's see what happens in the weeks to come. Remember - a person putting on a hypocritical show will always hang himself if given enough rope. Conversely - the creme de la creme will always rise to the top. :cool:

xfile, are you saying anyone who misspells a commonly used word has no shot of getting rich? If so thank you very much, now I know why I never made a million bucks in one year and others say they have playing the horses.:bang: The heck with handcapping, I'll just learn how to spell. :lol:

[analyzer]

Here is what I do not understand. If this thread is so far beneath your experience level and is not interesting to you, fine, but remember you are not the only folks reading and some may not be as knowledgeable as you are. Is your issue you do not want to help others less knowledgeable or do you not want anyone to know what you know? If someone is willing to get down to a lower level than your level of expertise and try to explain anything some may not know why are you concerned? If you do not think they are doing as good a job of explaining as you can, why not add something positive to the equation. My point is most people start their education on a first grade level, so with the mentality you guys exhibit you would go in the first grade classroom in front of a classroom full of first graders and tell them how little can be obtained by the teaching being offered in the first grade classroom, it is not any good and has been provided to you so long ago it is not worth the kids in the classroom who do not know what you know paying any attention because YOUUUUU already know it and are not learning anything in this classroom. My point is your level of expertise may be far above something being discussed, I do not remember anyone asking you to shut up or be silent but why not try to add something positive if your level of expertise is far above what is being discussed but do not silence someone who is trying to do something you are not willing to do. Some of you come across as someone with a PHD getting angry because someone is trying to help a first grader or someone else in the educational process. Just as you guys can't see why anyone would want to listen to someone trying to educate someone less knowledgeable, I can't understand how you think what you are doing is helping anyone. Perhaps you do not want to help anyone and if that is your posture fine, please do not lower yourself to help someone less knowledgeable than you are but please dont shoot those who are willing to do what you do not want to do. I hope this clears up the way some of you are coming across. I can't believe some of you can reread your Contributions here and find anything positive about some of your posts. Perhaps belittling and degrading is becoming to you but I have never thought it made a positive contribution to anything. I suppose it is fruitless to try to get some here to understand something which seems so simple and those of you who are bound and determined to take this approach will continue to bash. Your approach makes no sense to me and I suppose my feeling about your approach and how it comes across makes no difference either. I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree.

[Steverr1]

I am constantly amazed at some of the Math wizards on most Forums. They can tell you how X met Y and what Bell did to his curve. Many have dabbled in Day Trading much like me. I made a ton of money day trading--a ton. I wrote a 368 page book on how I traded. Tony Oz of OZ publishing was in the middle of publishing it when he sold his outfit to a large concern and they didn’t pick it up. I was so upset I didn't shop it anywhere else. I still have the manuscript somewhere near my toilet. If you have any interest in what the book was called or seeing some old information about the author then go to:

http://www.theonlinedaytrader.com/main.html (http://www.theonlinedaytrader.com/main.html)



But back to the ponies. I have stood beside so many Gurus’ that know all this stuff it would make you sick. They can tell you how many feet are from such and such marker and who will be in the lead, and how Dick did Jane. However, I have yet to meet one who could win. NADA. Exceptions? Not many. I see their selections all over the place. I can and do subscribe to so many sites it is hard to count them. Man, I love knowledge and the more I gain the more I believe that so many have bought into so many myths that they can’t even suspicion that anyone can win at this game. And why not? Not one of the wizards can tell you how to win, but they will argue all day long about some esoteric formula they possess that reveals secrets. They will argue about everyone’s ideas but yet they are takers and offer nothing. The truth is they are losers. They can’t admit to others and certainly not to themselves that they can’t figure it out. They hide behind screen names and seldom tell you about themselves.



My formula is:

Math Wizard + Offers Nothing+Only Posts Degrading Information =LOSER



I have gambled with Andy Beyer and Andy didn’t use Beyer numbers for much of his play. The tellers couldn’t believe it. How about them apples race fans. Beyer doesn’t use Beyer numbers exclusively to bet.

You should know though that Andy is one of the nicest and smartest persons in this sport. The world could use a few more like him. You see Andy is smart enough to use ALL data before him. He compares items and for my observation seemed to use good money management.


Andy is different than some other wizards. He is an expert. He gives. He had a formula and he published it. He wrote to help others but that came after he was a semi winner. He never had any elusions that he would become rich in the writing industry and that didn’t stop him. He is a good man and I hope he makes a killing this year at Gulfstream.



One other item about Andy. I am sure he is smart enough to get that most winners don’t and can’t post all their winnings due to the IRS and recent arrests concerning those who sign tickets if such a thing exists? Perhaps that’s one reason many can’t document winnings. Who knows?



Don’t get me wrong. Math is important. We all have to have understanding of odds, and basic principles of the sport. My direction is meant for those know it all losers that contribute nothing and you already know who you are.

I have the greatest respect for those Experts who back up their data and teach. Barry Meadows comes to mind. After reading some back posts I discovered a few on this forum that I hope post more. Make no mistake that there is a big difference between Math wizards and Math Experts.

[toetoe]

Coupla things.

I think I can put myself into tlg's shoes. Involved in the racing game on many levels, in New York, no less. Biting his tongue at some sophomoric post must be like trying to gear down from $20 poker games to Spit-In-The-Ocean for pennies. I love hearing what tlg has to say, but he's not the motormouthed mingler that I am, e.g. In fact, that post about pick-threes is the first nuts-and-bolts post I remember reading by tlg. I hope to see more.

As to bodacious claims of proficiency, I can let them roll off my back, all the while trying to glean nuggets of wisdom from the rest of the post. I must say, however, that claims of astounding lucration belie the mental toughness that I believe is crucial to winning, without exception.

As for the newbacious ones, I think no one minds Bonehead Handicapping 101 questions on here. We're just a bit leery of scammers hawking "services" POSING as newbies.

P.S. I know what it means, but I think I made it up. tt

[the little guy]

I am constantly amazed at some of the Math wizards on most Forums. They can tell you how X met Y and what Bell did to his curve. Many have dabbled in Day Trading much like me. I made a ton of money day trading--a ton. I wrote a 368 page book on how I traded. Tony Oz of OZ publishing was in the middle of publishing it when he sold his outfit to a large concern and they didn’t pick it up. I was so upset I didn't shop it anywhere else. I still have the manuscript somewhere near my toilet. If you have any interest in what the book was called or seeing some old information about the author then go to:

http://www.theonlinedaytrader.com/main.html (http://www.theonlinedaytrader.com/main.html)



But back to the ponies. I have stood beside so many Gurus’ that know all this stuff it would make you sick. They can tell you how many feet are from such and such marker and who will be in the lead, and how Dick did Jane. However, I have yet to meet one who could win. NADA. Exceptions? Not many. I see their selections all over the place. I can and do subscribe to so many sites it is hard to count them. Man, I love knowledge and the more I gain the more I believe that so many have bought into so many myths that they can’t even suspicion that anyone can win at this game. And why not? Not one of the wizards can tell you how to win, but they will argue all day long about some esoteric formula they possess that reveals secrets. They will argue about everyone’s ideas but yet they are takers and offer nothing. The truth is they are losers. They can’t admit to others and certainly not to themselves that they can’t figure it out. They hide behind screen names and seldom tell you about themselves.



My formula is:

Math Wizard + Offers Nothing+Only Posts Degrading Information =LOSER



I have gambled with Andy Beyer and Andy didn’t use Beyer numbers for much of his play. The tellers couldn’t believe it. How about them apples race fans. Beyer doesn’t use Beyer numbers exclusively to bet.

You should know though that Andy is one of the nicest and smartest persons in this sport. The world could use a few more like him. You see Andy is smart enough to use ALL data before him. He compares items and for my observation seemed to use good money management.


Andy is different than some other wizards. He is an expert. He gives. He had a formula and he published it. He wrote to help others but that came after he was a semi winner. He never had any elusions that he would become rich in the writing industry and that didn’t stop him. He is a good man and I hope he makes a killing this year at Gulfstream.



One other item about Andy. I am sure he is smart enough to get that most winners don’t and can’t post all their winnings due to the IRS and recent arrests concerning those who sign tickets if such a thing exists? Perhaps that’s one reason many can’t document winnings. Who knows?



Don’t get me wrong. Math is important. We all have to have understanding of odds, and basic principles of the sport. My direction is meant for those know it all losers that contribute nothing and you already know who you are.

I have the greatest respect for those Experts who back up their data and teach. Barry Meadows comes to mind. After reading some back posts I discovered a few on this forum that I hope post more. Make no mistake that there is a big difference between Math wizards and Math Experts.


Just for clarification, I asked Andy Beyer yesterday if he had ever heard of you.....and he said NO.

[toetoe]

Steve,

You and Analyzer don't see that tlg is holding you to a high standard and he has the decency to demand that same standard for all aboard here. You're seriously misreading him if you think he's just on here to flame on a la Johnny Storm. I gaw-rawn-TEE he has plenty to do with his time. If in poker you must know your player, don't get into any games with him.

I don't know which mathematons you're attacking in your last post. I didn't really get it.

Also: Bell, the big southpaw, had Tommy John surgery and forever lost his Curve.

[Tom]

Just for clarification, I asked Andy Beyer yesterday if he had ever heard of you.....and he said NO.

Has he heard of "Littleman?" :lol:

[Steverr1]

The Little Guy,

You may be correct he may not remember me as he had no reason too. If in fact you are in touch with him ask him this:
When he was at Tampa Bay last year or the year before he was given a booth in the Sports Gallery for the week he was there. The booth was purposely put beside my booth. I am sure he will remember me from that visit rather than by name. He invited me to look him up when I was attended Gulf Stream.

He interviewed the track GM in regards to why Tampa doesn't take off shore money and send them signals. He had no reason to interview me.

George Steinbrenner sets up front near me. I speak to him everyday he is there and we have swapped a few stories and horse pics over the years. However, if you mention Steve to him I doubt he would know me until he saw my face. I was deep into handicapping a race one day when he came over and wished me well with an operation that I was facing earlier this year. When the Boss wishes you well then you got to believe you will be OK.

Steve

[toetoe]

Something I've been thinking about: The Sam Houston pick-threes have the almost unheard-of takeout of 12%, WAY below the rest of "the usury suspects." Now, I'm thinking, take off 7% more for the Pinnacle rebates and, assuming decent handicapping, big fields, not-too-tiny pools and at least one race you have a tight handle on, maybe they're beatable.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Depends on your experience hanmdicapping. I never bet pick anything so to me this is all new and Steve has put out a lot of information, advanced or not! And TLG's pick 3 info was the most info I have seen him put out yet! Thank you!
Whether or not he gambled with Beyer is a wash for me anyway. I'm just waiting for Steve to expand on his track bias analysis.
In the meantime- Does everyone who bets picks or exotics demand that each and every horse be an overlay or is the total bet only considered in looking at the value of the play? In exotics, do all your horses have the same running style?

[analyzer]

TT- Help me understand what Higher Standard tlg was trying hold anyone to with his first 2 posts in this thread? Please re look at both of them and tell me where I missed anything positive and how those fit your definition of Higher Standard? If the Higher Standard is if your Standard is Not as High as MY Standard you have nothing to offer Anyone then your definition would certainly be correct. If I missed anything please point it out so I can see where I missed the Higher Standards being aimed at. Thanks.

[GMB@BP]

The Little Guy,

You may be correct he may not remember me as he had no reason too. If in fact you are in touch with him ask him this:
When he was at Tampa Bay last year or the year before he was given a booth in the Sports Gallery for the week he was there. The booth was purposely put beside my booth. I am sure he will remember me from that visit rather than by name. He invited me to look him up when I was attended Gulf Stream.

He interviewed the track GM in regards to why Tampa doesn't take off shore money and send them signals. He had no reason to interview me.

George Steinbrenner sets up front near me. I speak to him everyday he is there and we have swapped a few stories and horse pics over the years. However, if you mention Steve to him I doubt he would know me until he saw my face. I was deep into handicapping a race one day when he came over and wished me well with an operation that I was facing earlier this year. When the Boss wishes you well then you got to believe you will be OK.

Steve

now this is going to be fun :lol: :lol:

[analyzer]

So, in other words, you have taken Steve Crist's Pick-6 wagering strategy, something he has written about for years, and applied it to Pick-3s....and spent a hell of a lot more time and words than necessary explaining it.

Sometimes, in fact most times, more is less. TT- Here is the first of the 2 I am referring to. Thanks in advance for your showing what Higher Standard is being aimed at?

[analyzer]

Funny, for a person so seemingly above everyone else, it didn't take you long to lower yourself to making up nicknames for other posters.

I'm afraid if I " shared " any insights with you they would show up on the next board you haunt as your own. No thanks. TT- Here is the 2nd of the 2 I was referring. Thanks in advance for showing me the Higher Standards being aimed at? Thanks.

[the little guy]

What can be explained to you if you don't get that I feel reguritating age old betting strategies as though they are the key to achieving thus far unheard of success is somehow enlightening?

What don't you get that if someone is to back up HIS CLAIMS of astronomical racetrack success I expect more than something we have all read from, apparantly, numerous sources of the last umpteen years?

[twindouble]

Depends on your experience hanmdicapping. I never bet pick anything so to me this is all new and Steve has put out a lot of information, advanced or not! And TLG's pick 3 info was the most info I have seen him put out yet! Thank you!
Whether or not he gambled with Beyer is a wash for me anyway. I'm just waiting for Steve to expand on his track bias analysis.
In the meantime- Does everyone who bets picks or exotics demand that each and every horse be an overlay or is the total bet only considered in looking at the value of the play? In exotics, do all your horses have the same running style?

You'll have to excuse me but I'll explain it my way. First I don't demand anything when I get into a race, it just comes together as I handicap it, I'm not looking for "overlays" or "underlays", when I come up with the contenders in the picks I call that the prevailing wagering conditions, my key horse or horses in most cases vary in value, I just evaluate what the best wager would be to make money. I wouldn't toss the chalk in one leg when I have good value in the other two even though I feel I have a horse with value that could beat the chalk I'll use both. In most cases in the picks the wagering conditions vary, having a key horse with value is ideal in the picks.

I don't know about you but, I've come up with horses that to me looked 2-1 shots in the picks and they go off at 30-1, go figure. On the other hand, my 5-1 got hammered down the last min. That's the only draw back because we make our wagers in advance in the picks, your stuck with it.

The prevailing wagering conditions some times warrent a pass, you may be dealing with 18-20 2yo's or 20 3yo's stretching out for the fist time, to risky, I apply the same strategy when it comes to the pick 6. Because I don't have a million dollar bankroll.

Running styles aways plays a part in my handicapping picking contenders when it comes to any type wager. That goes without saying, speed, pace and distance as you know are big factors in handicapping. I do better wagering on older horses at a distance, turf or dirt but I can handicap the sprints as well. I think being proficient in both add to your handicapping ability.

[the little guy]

The Little Guy,

You may be correct he may not remember me as he had no reason too. If in fact you are in touch with him ask him this:
When he was at Tampa Bay last year or the year before he was given a booth in the Sports Gallery for the week he was there. The booth was purposely put beside my booth. I am sure he will remember me from that visit rather than by name. He invited me to look him up when I was attended Gulf Stream.


" If in fact you are in touch with him "

So, there is a possibility I am lying? Listen Steverino, unlike you, MANY posters here know who I am and have met me ( Yeah, I'm not one of those guys hiding behind a computer screen ) and they know my racetrack nickname which forever links me to Beyer. So if you think I was making up that I asked Beyer if he had ever heard of you, which your statement proves you at least entertain as a possibility, you can forget it. I know your admirers here are thrilled to jump on me for questioning you but they would be wise to chew on that one for a while.

While as a very close friend of Mr. Beyer's I am heartened to hear all the nice things you had to say about him, of course none of them surprise me and many members here can tell you I am always the first to jump to his defense, pardon me if I ascertained incorrectly from you original post concerning Mr. Beyer that you were intimating that you two were friendly. I am just glad I was able to be here to clarify the situation and at least bring a little truth into the discussion.

Here is the quote I love the most....


" I have gambled with Andy Beyer and Andy didn’t use Beyer numbers for much of his play. The tellers couldn’t believe it. How about them apples race fans. Beyer doesn’t use Beyer numbers exclusively to bet. "

Are we to believe from this that the tellers knew who Beyer SHOULD be betting from his numbers and were shocked that he was betting other horses. If you have a logical explanation for this I know I would love to hear it!

[DrugSalvastore]

Some of you come across as someone with a PHD getting angry because someone is trying to help a first grader or someone else in the educational process.

It may look that way on the surface with me----but two things.

#1. * I don't have a PHD

#2. * I'm a Chief Executive Officer for a company called B.D.I (Bullshit Detection International) and I'm only doing my duty to provide a disclaimer
wherever this guy posts...until he admits that he's full of crap about being over $1,000,000 ahead this year.

DrugS
CEO

[analyzer]

**I am in hope that these reminders will help those who need them. I am not smart enough to have invented any of these basic approaches. Some have a small twist as I have tweaked a few things that have helped me. In my opinion, these types of approaches will benefit those who are having difficulty isolating a horse to win. ...TT- Please read the opening 2 or 3 sentences above and explain how tlg could read those 3 sentences and come up with the responses I have pointed out in reference to your Higher Standards you state he is trying to hold someone to. I missed how anyone who read the opening sentences above quoted can see Higher Standards being aimed at by tlg. It appears to me someone did not read what was written and is trying to start a Rock Throwing because of the initial introduction when Steve came to the board. If you dont like the guy and think he is full of BS fine, your opinion, and you have every right to have an opinion. My opinion is no Higher Standard was being aimed at and inferring someone was trying to steal something or take credit for something when they state VERY CLEARLY not to have been the originator would seem to defy any realistic Higher Standard logic. I am still willing but cannot see how you get anything resembling Higher Standards being aimed at.

[toetoe]

How did Springsteen get into this? I can't get away from that man.

[toetoe]

Analyzer,

I THINK I meant that tlg's Spidey Sense began to tingle with the onset of the Brobdingnagian braggadocio. Then, when the method was presented, tlg was already embattled, as in, fully armor-clad. Maybe he crossed the line from skepticism into naked cynicism, but I think once the boast was made, the Steve/tlg marriage had no shot. Maybe he intended to do the wrong thing for the right reason? I may be making things worse, but I'm not intending to.

Now, I want everybody to say what he's feeling, unfettered. BUT, must you brag, unless there's some hilarious story involved? It won't win any friends worth their salt, and it risks alienating other potential friends. Maybe I could ask tlg to "be nicer," but that would be a very lame request and, if the distinction is not clear to you, I can't clarify it.

[PaceAdvantage]

In all the rehashing that has gone on, has Steverr1 posted copyrighted material of any kind? Those of you familiar with the works cited, please let me know....

[analyzer]

tlg- Thanks as you finally admitted your problem was not about the post today and as I stated your problem is with his initial post as I also stated and pointed out in your quote. You are pissed about the original post and are carrying it over to everything talked about today. Fine, again as I stated you and everyone who agrees with you is entitled to your opinion. I did not think the post today and your response to it had anything to do with the information in the thread today and now you have admitted it. My problem is You can question and have every right to but if someone points out Your responses as I have pointed out have not one IOTA of anything to do with what you are trying to infer which is Steve was trying to explain an approach he uses and DID NOT CLAIM to be the originator of, it clearly indicates you did not read his post because you could not possibly draw the conclusion you inferred to in your 2 posts I have pointed out. You may be the Greatest handicapper to come down the pike and may know everyone who is anyone in handicapping but you sure will not admit you wrote 2 responses accusing someone of doing something you have done in the 2 posts I have referred to today. Let me see if I understand, If you make some statement wrongly accusing someone of something which is UNTRUE and PUT IT IN WRITING, it is ALLRIGHT, but if someone states something and you do not BELIEVE their post, it is a different thing, Right? OK, I thought this was your point. Now I understand. What a deal. We do know someone on the board saw some information which might AT LEAST somewhat back his claim of substantial earnings. You on the other hand will not admit to the err of your ways today when you have written it for all to see. YOU have Proven in Print and attached your name Making you Guilty. You also cannot prove or disprove the guilt you are accusing Steve of but this is just my opinion and I know Yours is the only opinion we should consider. I think everyone understands your perspective and again you have the right to, it appears the same standards you judge others by does not apply when you err. We will have to agree to disagree about the issues discussed and the way you choose to apply Right and Wrong.

[dav4463]

I am wary of name-droppers, but I enjoy reading the posts. Keep them coming......I guess I don't trust name-droppers because the ones I know....will frequently ...shall I say....exaggerate beyond reason.....!

Heard one at Lone Star last year.......the Sacramento Kings were in town... this guy wanted to impress his buddies...I heard him say loudly into his cell phone....."Just checking to see if Gavin(Kings high-profile owner) had left my tickets at will-call....they are courtside right ??? " I would be willing to bet that there was no one on the other end of that phone call !

[toetoe]

Analyzer,

While I don't share your view, by all means stick to it. One problem is your charge that tlg has not disproven Steve's claims. Your point about thread-to-thread carryover (Did somebody say CARRYOVER? [DOINGGGGG!!!!]) is a good one; but my dear man, it's up to the own-horn tooter to prove he HAS done what's claimed. Otherwise, we'd be here until doomsday checking off EVERY SINGLE RACE, YEAR, TAX RETURN, etc. We can note tlg's feisty, even prickly manner, but his show-me stance is admirable. We should all be so skeptical. After all, Missouri loves company.

[PaceAdvantage]

analyzer, could you provide the English version of your most recent post? I mean seriously, if there was an award given out for "Post Most Resembling A Rorschach Test," you'd win hands down for that gem.

And did I blink and miss it, or did Steverr1 claim to be a betting pal of Andy Beyer's?

I have gambled with Andy Beyer and Andy didn’t use Beyer numbers for much of his play. The tellers couldn’t believe it. How about them apples race fans. Beyer doesn’t use Beyer numbers exclusively to bet.

"I have gambled" implies more than one time, does it not? Not only that, he tries to sucker punch Andy by saying the guy "didn't use Beyer numbers for much of his play," but later softens the blow by revising this to read "Beyer doesn't use his numbers "exclusively" to bet."

So we go from he doesn't use Beyer figs for much of his play, to he doesn't use them EXCLUSIVELY........no SHIT! Most players don't use one thing EXCLUSIVELY!! If I look up some pedigree info on a first time starter, I'm not using speed figures EXCLUSIVELY! If I check Dave Litfin's analysis of a race I'm looking at, I'm not using speed figures EXCLUSIVELY there either....lol

Saying on the one hand that he doesn't use Beyer figs for MUCH OF HIS PLAY, then revising it to "not using them EXCLUSIVELY" is a HUGE DIFFERENCE.

The fact that TLG has yet to jog Mr. Beyer's memory as to the existence of one Mr. Steverr1 (aka "Beyer's Betting Buddy") starts my Spidey sense a tinglin' again.

[toetoe]

PAdv,

Speaking of Carl Rohrschach, the Night Stalker, don't think I don't appreciate your presence aboard, at almost 2:00 a.m. Eastern. This no-life-havin' Westcoaster loves it.

[analyzer]

TT- I never insinuated ANYONE has ANY requirement to disprove Steve's claim nor did I imply anyone should believe his claim. Quite honestly I do not care whether it is TRUE or False. My point is the Difference in Application of Right or Wrong and One pointing fingers at another who proved in Print he Erred and not applying the same standard, if applicable, to oneself. If you read the 2 posts in question and DO NOT see tlg did as I stated previously we will have to agree we have both read something and because of Bias were unable to agree what tlg stated in reference to this thread had anything to do with the statements Steve made to open this thread and Everything to do with Carryover from the introduction thread several days ago. Contrary to what you may believe tlg has not tried to sell me anything and I have no reason to believe he is not well intentioned most of the time, I have a different opinion of what transpired here, TODAY, IN THIS THREAD. BTW, has Steve attempted to sell anything to anyone or attempted to charge anything for any of the information provided whether you think it is Useful or Not? He has not asked me to buy anything and I have not seen him offer to sell anything. I suspicion PA has the ability to put the QUIETUS on that in short order if it was attempted openly on the board. I really am sorry Some or Many have a problem with Steve based on the introduction but Are there 2 standards in place depending on who they may be applicable too? If you have decided you do not like Steve or Anyone else, Are we to assume they have nothing to contribute Anyone else might not be able to Gleen something from? If this is Correct I assume you never learned anything from Anyone You did not like or thought was full of BS. Perhaps my life experience has been different from yours but I have not only Learned things from people I not only Do Not Like but some of these same people will Lie when the Truth sounds Better. My preference and opinion is to let Each Person listen, hear, and sort whatever wheat there may be from the chaff and TRY to Apply the Same principles Fairly. I ask nobody to see it MY way instead of Your way or vice versa. We may end up on different sides of the fence in this case but I would not conclude I could not learn something from tlg because we disagree about things here. Conversely I am not going to assume I can't learn something from Steve because tlg think he is or may be full of Stuff. If I want to see if I can gleen anything useful from Steve or Anyone else posting here IS IT FAIR for Someone to run this person down or off who is offering information thus Imposing there will on me which eliminates my ability to listen, hear, and make MY OWN decision as to whether I want to hear this persons offerings? If you do not understand my position fine but please respect My Right for You not to Inhibit my willingness to Listen because You Do Not Want To.

[analyzer]

PA- I am sorry but I dont remember saying anything about believing any or all of the writings of Steve. If in some way you drew the conclusion I believed everything or anything I will be glad to explain what you interpreted I said to indicate I believed if you will point out what I said indicating I believed. In your post you indicated some statements made by Steve and indicate I said I believed the statements. In case I did indicate I believed I am sorry, I thought I said I didn't care. Show me where I said I believed and I will certainly admit my mistake and if I did this I mistated my own thoughts because I never intended for this to be about whether I believe.

[analyzer]

**I am in hope that these reminders will help those who need them. I am not smart enough to have invented any of these basic approaches. Some have a small twist as I have tweaked a few things that have helped me. In my opinion, these types of approaches will benefit those who are having difficulty isolating a horse to win. PA- The very first paragraph totaling 4 SENTENCES of the above is ALL I am Referring to. Anything below this or any additional banter from the writer after the initial paragraph has nothing to do with anything I have referred to here except the 2 initial responses from tlg. You are taking banter later about this and that I have not made any reference to and in fact I stated I did not care. If you are talking about the Beyer remarks or the Steinbrenner talk I never said anything about believing. I am ONLY addressing the 2 responses from TLG which indicate Steve is trying to take credit for what is discussed as being his original since tlg's 2 responses infer Steve tried to take credit for the origination of the original concept tlg eluded to in his initial response and then in tlg's 2nd response he indicates a fear something he might say Steve might go to another site and take credit for as his. I AM TALKING ABOUT 4 SENTENCES FROM THE ABOVE FROM STEVE AND THE 2 RESPONSES From TLG. Your reference to the other has nothing to do with these things I refer to.

[Vegas711]

At one time I thought about sharing some discoveries i found in my research( Advance methods in detecting pace meltdowns, new methods in using running styles, etc ) I came very close to posting them here. Then I got smart and realized that this serves no purpose all it will get you is a headache, you will have someone who needs to be the critic.

When you are offering info and asking for no money in return, who needs to put up with someone giving you a bunch of bullshit!

Info on this site is free, if you are not paying for it ,why bitch about it. :bang:

[analyzer]

PA- Post #1 paragraph 1 preceded by 2 ** which includes 4 sentences. No more than this portion of Post #1 by Steverr1. Post #2 by tlg and Post #8 by tlg ending statement only portion of this post.

[midnight]

I've never on this forum seen such pompous, arrogant, demanding behavior as the dozen or so of you who have been either issuing ultimatums to do this/prove that, or who have appointed yourselves as Captain Americas, the saviors of the planet. It makes me angry beyond belief, and I don't get angry easily. It honestly makes me want to clam up and lurk here and never share another idea, explanation, bit of trivia or history, or anything at all.

I realize that doing so would be unfair to the 95% of you who aren't guilty of this, but I'm at the end of the rope here. We might as well bring back Tom Console (who actually acted very civil in his last visit here), ToteMaster, Little Joe, Frank Guru, all the gang from the old HPU message board, and every troll and bad-actor that's passed through here in the lifetime of this forum. It wouldn't be any worse than the bullsh*t that's gone on here recently. WHERE DO YOU PEOPLE GET OFF IN THINKING THAT YOU CAN DEMAND THAT ANYBODY DO ANYTHING?

I'm done with it.

[xfile]

George Steinbrenner sets up front near me. I speak to him everyday he is there and we have swapped a few stories and horse pics over the years. However, if you mention Steve to him I doubt he would know me until he saw my face. I was deep into handicapping a race one day when he came over and wished me well with an operation that I was facing earlier this year. When the Boss wishes you well then you got to believe you will be OK.

Steve

Call your doctor and tell him you got a second opinion from Dr Xfile who said your lobotomy did not take!. And you will need a complete removal of the frontal lobes. :cool:

[xfile]

So we go from he doesn't use Beyer figs for much of his play, to he doesn't use them EXCLUSIVELY........no SHIT! Most players don't use one thing EXCLUSIVELY!! If I look up some pedigree info on a first time starter, I'm not using speed figures EXCLUSIVELY! If I check Dave Litfin's analysis of a race I'm looking at, I'm not using speed figures EXCLUSIVELY there either....lol

Saying on the one hand that he doesn't use Beyer figs for MUCH OF HIS PLAY, then revising it to "not using them EXCLUSIVELY" is a HUGE DIFFERENCE.

The fact that TLG has yet to jog Mr. Beyer's memory as to the existence of one Mr. Steverr1 (aka "Beyer's Betting Buddy") starts my Spidey sense a tinglin' again.

PA - When you smack a imbecile in the head you end up with a imbecile with a welt on his head. :cool:

[cj]

I've never on this forum seen such pompous, arrogant, demanding behavior as the dozen or so of you who have been either issuing ultimatums to do this/prove that, or who have appointed yourselves as Captain Americas, the saviors of the planet. It makes me angry beyond belief, and I don't get angry easily. It honestly makes me want to clam up and lurk here and never share another idea, explanation, bit of trivia or history, or anything at all.

I realize that doing so would be unfair to the 95% of you who aren't guilty of this, but I'm at the end of the rope here. We might as well bring back Tom Console (who actually acted very civil in his last visit here), ToteMaster, Little Joe, Frank Guru, all the gang from the old HPU message board, and every troll and bad-actor that's passed through here in the lifetime of this forum. It wouldn't be any worse than the bullsh*t that's gone on here recently. WHERE DO YOU PEOPLE GET OFF IN THINKING THAT YOU CAN DEMAND THAT ANYBODY DO ANYTHING?

I'm done with it.

I'm pretty amazed, aren't you the same guy that relentlessly attacks some of the software peddlers and the ridiculous claims that they make? How is this different?

[joeyspicks]

this freeking thread is reaching twilight zone proportions! What the f*#@ ?

1. I STILL cannot figure steve's motives for posting some of this crap?

2. I'm starting to agree with DrugS (which scares me:rolleyes: ) (just kidding DS)

3. How does ANY OF THIS HELP ANYONE ?

4. Its reminding me of being at the bar listening to 20 guys talk all at the same time each arguing a DIFFERENT POINT!

5. Having said all that........

a. some guys win ( me for one)
b. some win much more that me (Steve ?) Dick S and others
c. some lose....but are trying to understand how to win
d. some lose and are internally convinced NO ONE WINS
and its all crap.. They are negative and shoot down every and any possibility of hope a guy in class c. has......trying to keep him as a loser.
f. some guys LIE
D. its hard as hell to know over the internet...whos...who
but if you pay attention over time you can start to tell.

Most my posts have been aimed at guys in catagory C. Guys who are still trying and still OPEN to NEW ideas. I also gained alot from the "computer guys" on this site and have tried to learn from the guys in catagory b.

I don't (anymore) have a freekin clue what Steve's trying to accomplish.
1.BRAG?
2.DECEIVE?
3. HELP with new ideas?
4. stir the pot?
5. name drop?
6 establish millionaire status?

what's the point ?

[BetHorses!]

Why did he post about netting 1 mil this year? If he left that out would he have still gotten all this attention?

For the record, I think he is who he says but I will say this, I know some winning and losing players with that money and status who are not in the racing business at all and none of them post on the internet so I think its a rare but good thing. I think they feel its beneath them.

[twindouble]

I've never on this forum seen such pompous, arrogant, demanding behavior as the dozen or so of you who have been either issuing ultimatums to do this/prove that, or who have appointed yourselves as Captain Americas, the saviors of the planet. It makes me angry beyond belief, and I don't get angry easily. It honestly makes me want to clam up and lurk here and never share another idea, explanation, bit of trivia or history, or anything at all.

I realize that doing so would be unfair to the 95% of you who aren't guilty of this, but I'm at the end of the rope here. We might as well bring back Tom Console (who actually acted very civil in his last visit here), ToteMaster, Little Joe, Frank Guru, all the gang from the old HPU message board, and every troll and bad-actor that's passed through here in the lifetime of this forum. It wouldn't be any worse than the bullsh*t that's gone on here recently. WHERE DO YOU PEOPLE GET OFF IN THINKING THAT YOU CAN DEMAND THAT ANYBODY DO ANYTHING?

I'm done with it.

Midnight;
I thought what going on was a reasonably civil inquiry on Steve's status in the racing world. As a matter of fact I was hoping he was the real thing. Not only that, there wasn't any real nasty remarks I've see on other forums and he was welcomed back with open arms by the majority. Who knows if he made a million or more this year, don't matter to me, all the more power to him if he did. I like it when other make money, just validate what I've been saying for many years. It can be done. What troubled me the most about gambling is the stigma that goes with it, nowadays a guy can be a horse player at home and no one knows it but him, he can be a long time loser and still funtion or survive. When I was at the track every day, I could figure out who was throwing the ego bull, if there was any doubt in my mind I would ask the tellers that I often tipped when I scored. It's our nature as gamblers to be skeptical but I agree, one doesn't have to be nasty to find out who's who. It always cracked me up when someone would rub their winning tickets in your face like they took your money making it a personal thing not knowing you just cashed 10 time more than he did. LOL. Types like that don't make it in the long haul.

Anyway, you sound like a decent guy and I enjoyed the war room experience with you but the buggies aren't my thing, at the end that's all that showed up, plus I like being on the same page with other handicappers. I also let be known I made some buck on others picks, I didn't even look at the races, different tracks. ;)

Hang in, if I can so can you. :cool: Yes, I used to smoke cigars, I would today if the wife would let me. :(

Good luck,

T.D.

[joeyspicks]

again my question is (earlier post): whats the point ?

I agree that Steve shouldnt be attacked. This is unnessessary....however whats the reason for making posting proclaiming to be millinaire (ok...thats a GOOD thing! :ThmbUp: )

and dropping names (Andy, NOW GEORGE ?) whats THAT about (doenst impress me...not built that way).

I (and others) come to discuss racing but also to maybe LEARN something NEW.

I thought Steve, as a successful horse player you might have something of value to add?

[Steverr1]

You will never get to me with those Flames. Personally I find it interesting to see what bothers people and what doesn’t. What they enjoy and what they don’t. It’s a lot like handicapping-what to pitch and what to keep. I want to focus on the horses but some of you attack everything.



Here is a challenge for anyone on this list. It seems that some of you care about my claims- (even PA said that he couldn’t understand why anyone would care)-than what I could offer. So, let me back them up in a way that will leave do doubt and perhaps we can then continue with what I had hoped to do in the first place.



We all are Gamblers right? Any one of you-PA decides- I will fly to Tampa for this weekend. All expenses paid. That is to say not a cent will come out of your pocket for food, or room etc. I will also give you $1000.00 to use as wagering money for the weekend. All this will be paid for up front except the $1000.00 which I will hand to you when you get to Tampa.



We will then meet with Ogle & Company-one of the top CPA firms in the nation. Jerry Ogle, the CEO would not risk his credentials for me or you and we will meet with him. He will produce the evidence that he will also submit to the IRS. In addition we will meet with the GM of Tampa-Tellers, with first hand experience and anyone else who knows me at the Track. Unless you believe they all are in some conspiracy to back my claims then that will serve to put this to rest. Yes, and we will even get the Andy Beyer thing out of the way. If you read my whole post and not just a snip you would see that I respect this man more than almost anyone I have yet to meet in this industry.



But in fairness, if I have spoken the truth I want every dime I spent on you back plus the $1000.00 in cash and a $1000.00 extra for your stupidity before you depart back to wherever you came from. No IOU’s , watches, but cash. The entire amount. In addition you must post about your trip and what you discovered.



Bottom line, a few of you claim straight out that I am lying, a fraud, or whatever. I have said all along that I will prove any thing I state.



As many of you who did the research already know that I am the CEO of the most successful investigative agency in the U.S. I didn’t get to this position by lying, or deceiving, but if you have doubts and it is somehow that important to you then I will see you in Tampa this weekend. I will need your name and information no later than 3:00 today so that my Secretary can arrange the lodging, tickets, and other transportation.



It’s time for you to back up your claims of fraud. I can’t wait. I would invite the whole list but one will give me enough money for some easy ROI. Seems to me that with PA deciding who takes the trip out of you 10+ doubters that person will be able to finally get this out of the way for the list. There is some old saying that goes something about putting your money where your.....you know the rest.


Waiting to hear from you.



Steve

[joeyspicks]

I never claimed you were not telling the truth, however I have questioned several times your motives?

What are they ?

(I mean not only the posts but WHY would you BOTHER with a challenge like that....(The Tampa challange)

Why would you spend time on this? ?

I enjoy learning from people who are more successful than me (its the ONLY way)....and was really looking forward to being able to add to my knowledge.

thanks

Joe

[cj]

What would possibly make you think that at least three days of my time would be worth $1,000 and a serious case of jet lag? What is this, Survivor? PA is the tribal council? This is like an episode of "The Twilight Zone"!

[fergie]

It is said that Ceasar said "Veni, vidi, vici" --(I sure hope I spelled that right), which means "I came , I saw, I conquered." To that I would like to add "I slept".
I have spent quite some time lurking here-- only a couple of posts--because I don't have much to say, and am not a genius handicapper. This I do know, however, this thread has gone on all night, so I ask "does anyone around here besides me sleep?". And "how can you stay up all night and then play the horses next day?"
Fergie

[JustRalph]

It is said that Ceasar said "Veni, vidi, vici" --(I sure hope I spelled that right), which means "I came , I saw, I conquered." To that I would like to add "I slept".
I have spent quite some time lurking here-- only a couple of posts--because I don't have much to say, and am not a genius handicapper. This I do know, however, this thread has gone on all night, so I ask "does anyone around here besides me sleep?". And "how can you stay up all night and then play the horses next day?"
Fergie

Fergie, there are members in just about every time zone of the world. CJ is one example. If I am not mistaken, he is about 9 hours or so ahead of Eastern standard. There are others all over the U.S. and the globe...............kind of like the wide world of sports.......;)

[Steverr1]

Ok, I see that no one wants the jet lag so I guess I will have to wait until you guys travel around the circuit to meet you. I always enjoy meeting fellow horse handicappers.

So I'll stop on this thread and post about horses in the next thead.

Most of you know that I am who I say and I fully realize that your motives are not in the interest of handicapping. Mine are- to answer joeyspics. It was nice to take a break and speak with you guys for awhile.
For now I have to get to work on the Hollywood Pic 6.

[fergie]

Just Ralph--Thanks--that makes sense--it just didn't occur to me--guess I justlive in my own little world
Fergie

[xfile]

Ok, I see that no one wants the jet lag so I guess I will have to wait until you guys travel around the circuit to meet you. I always enjoy meeting fellow horse handicappers.

So I'll stop on this thread and post about horses in the next thead.

Most of you know that I am who I say and I fully realize that your motives are not in the interest of handicapping. Mine are- to answer joeyspics. It was nice to take a break and speak with you guys for awhile.
For now I have to get to work on the Hollywood Pic 6.

I live near Central Florida and can drive to any Florida track. Why meet in a DUMP of a track like TBD?. I love wagering at Tampa but the track is way too much of an old junk pile to visit. I bet it online and watch on dish. You want to meet a real pro or two? Meet me at Gulfstream for a weekend in January. At Gulfstream you will be a small fish in a big pond at best. Anyone with 3 cents to rub together can be a big shot at Tampa. At Gulfstream you will meet men who bet 10 thousand a race and more. I'll introduce you to these men. And you can decide if you can hang with them or not. You blow more smoke than an old AMC Gremlin.....lol....:cool:

[Niko]

Wow,
Who has time to keep up.

Steve is playing a game...like others have asked and for what purpose I don't know. The $1,000 offer and then you pay me double if I'm right seems childish..to me. There's other ways of doing it. If he is who is says I'd be interested to know more and I'll go along for the ride a little longer, but he's put up an awful lot of Red Flags.

I applaud people like Little Guy (and Steve if he's the real deal). I don't the Littel Guy but he seems like someone I'd like to know if I was a professional or had access. Why people are mad at him I don't know. If you make wild claims you better back them up. I hope someone like him never leaves this site.


It'll be interesting to see how this game plays out. It'll dictate how people behave and react on the board in the future. Some people are afraid of pissing Steve off because he'll leave and won't share his insight, others want proof but there's a lot of con games going on in this sport.

[joeyspicks]

what insight?

[kenwoodallpromos]

If Steve's agenda is to get attention, reaction, and/or participation he is doing it! To me it is noteworthy who is NOT getting worked up by or participating in needless banter.
I do not see either Toms or some other regulars who seem to be successful horsemen or bettors jumping into these! perhaps because it is Wed- Thursday and they are actually handicapping?
I think those who want more "proof" of Steve's claims are paranoid about falling for something that might be BS! I remind those people that this is the internet! BS central! Take it or leave it!

[the little guy]

I don't recall people asking for concrete proof, in fact most people say they couldn't care one way or the other, it was actually the originator of this nonsense that OFFERED supposed proof.

The " proof " that there is even some truth to the needless claims would come if some genuine insight had been offered. Perhaps that is the " proof " we are still looking for.

Myself.....all I want is the TV rights for the big showdown between Steve and Mike Warren.

[JustRalph]

Just Ralph--Thanks--that makes sense--it just didn't occur to me--guess I justlive in my own little world Fergie

Not a bad world at that! Half way between Dallas and Houston, not bad if you ask me..........;)

[SmartArt]

For now I have to get to work on the Hollywood Pic 6.

How about sharing a little insight???

Perhaps to not give away your bets to any freeloaders:

PM your picks in the first leg to PA or anyone else. Include the tickets, sort of like Ticket 1: 1,4,5; Ticket 2: 3,4; Ticket 3: 5,6,7.

Then, after the first leg has been run, post the last 5 legs of each ticket here on the board??? Hopefully add a little insight to your reasoning.

What's the harm in that? Other than the time it takes to type it all out.

[kenwoodallpromos]

You didn't need to ask Steve for proof- you asked Andy instead. That is quite OK.
The fact is, Steve is a great detective because he knows how to push people's buttons when he wants to.
Like I said, I'm waiting for more of his 'capping info so I can verify and research THAT!
As long as he's relating methods in his own words, I do not believe it is copyright infringment even if someone else originated the method unless it is patented.
TLG- did Beyer ever patent any of his figure methodology or just copyright his books? Obviously his DRF contract sews up the market either way.
Has he ever considered trying to develop a similar method for foreign or dog tracks, if possible?

[the little guy]

I didn't "ask Andy for proof " of anything. I'm quite sure they met, but they aren't friends as Steve at least implied before someone happened to be here to irrefutably argue that ( that would be me ). I had asked Andy, among a number of people, to see if anyone had ever heard of this self-proclaimed wunderkind. None, of course, had.

I understand quite clearly from what Steve has said that he is simply posting for a reaction. He's amusing, I'll give him that, but hardly original.

[JackS]

In dog racing (unlike horse racing), we only see the final time. It has occured to me that anyone with a stop watch could posisition himself at a single point ,lets say, around the finish line and measure the first dog to hit this point. We now have the unofficial equivelent of the 1st or 2nd call depending on how you look at it. Within a couple of weeks and keeping a ledger, we now have some pretty exclusive information on the last race 1st call for every dog in the race.
I've got to believe that someone is already doing this since it is such natural.
The question is- Would this single number truly add to the bottom line of the handicapper doing this?
Sorry if slightly off topic but wanted to post this query in response to Ken.

[Valuist]

My guess is that because the races are so short, you are unlikely to get much variance in fractional times, relative to final time. Its basically all-out, all the time. And there's no rider on top of the dog to "channel" its energy unlike in horse racing where a rider can slow the pace down for 6f then draw away late.

[xfile]

In dog racing (unlike horse racing), we only see the final time. It has occured to me that anyone with a stop watch could posisition himself at a single point ,lets say, around the finish line and measure the first dog to hit this point. We now have the unofficial equivelent of the 1st or 2nd call depending on how you look at it. Within a couple of weeks and keeping a ledger, we now have some pretty exclusive information on the last race 1st call for every dog in the race.
I've got to believe that someone is already doing this since it is such natural.
The question is- Would this single number truly add to the bottom line of the handicapper doing this?
Sorry if slightly off topic but wanted to post this query in response to Ken.

One accurate way to find out. Do 3-4 studies on paper then comapre them (splitting up a study is far better than one long study). Keep track of the grade, distance, post, etc. Please keep us posted on this. I can wager on Palm Beach KC at TCbets. I can trade you some valuable thoroughbred info not found anywhere for similar info for Palm Beach. Let me know if you are covering this track. There are alot of angles to investigate in dog racing. Not many are doing anything. You might really gain an edge. Good luck!:cool:

[toetoe]

And I quote:

"You can not prove or disprove the guilt you accuse Steve of ..."

If "insinuate" is Analyzerspeak for "imply," then you DID INDEED insinuate that tlg bore the onus of disproving Steve's previous claim. Failing that, the further implication is for tlg to shut up, stand in the corner, and do without his milk and graham crackers.

[toetoe]

Steve,

If I went for your offer, I'd return the first thousand, but my stupidity is not for sale at any price. Jeez, what's next, my dignity?

[toetoe]

Joey,

Maybe he means incite? :)

[Steverr1]

Toetoe,

I loved your response. I am still laughing.

Take Care

Steve

[the little guy]

I'm with you, I'm holding on to my stupidity and what ever is left of my dignity, at any price.

[PaceAdvantage]

I've never on this forum seen such pompous, arrogant, demanding behavior as the dozen or so of you who have been either issuing ultimatums to do this/prove that, or who have appointed yourselves as Captain Americas, the saviors of the planet. It makes me angry beyond belief, and I don't get angry easily. It honestly makes me want to clam up and lurk here and never share another idea, explanation, bit of trivia or history, or anything at all.

I realize that doing so would be unfair to the 95% of you who aren't guilty of this, but I'm at the end of the rope here. We might as well bring back Tom Console (who actually acted very civil in his last visit here), ToteMaster, Little Joe, Frank Guru, all the gang from the old HPU message board, and every troll and bad-actor that's passed through here in the lifetime of this forum. It wouldn't be any worse than the bullsh*t that's gone on here recently. WHERE DO YOU PEOPLE GET OFF IN THINKING THAT YOU CAN DEMAND THAT ANYBODY DO ANYTHING?

I'm done with it.


Midnight, CJ brings up a very good point in response to your post that I quoted. I also have another point to bring up....

And I will address this to Vegas711 who at one time thought about sharing, but didn't want the grief, whatever that means....

LOOK TO BOXCAR'S RECENT POST, where he certainly shared with all of us. He did not get anything but positive responses.

Examine that post, compare and contrast with what has happened recently, and draw your own conclusions.

Those folks screaming from the rafters about how unfair this has all been are being melodramatic, and silly to boot. Stop painting this board as a place where nobody can share anything, "because if you try and share, you get nothing but flamed and criticized." :rolleyes:

That is certainly UNTRUE and UNFAIR for you guys to be implying this takes place. Look to the posts of GameTheory, Dave Schwartz, Barry Meadow, and scores of others who have shared throughout the years. They didn't get blown out of the water for sharing. So don't try and tell me that this is the norm around here. It's not.

[JackS]

Xfile- Sorry, I haven't played a dog race in twenty years. This method would be exclusive to live racing since it would require your physical presence at the track every night (and day on weekends). Palm Beach would be a natural because of its much larger than average mutual pools.

[andicap]

Not intending this as a flame just an FYI. To me anyone has the right to post what they want as long at it's not mean-spirited and just plain wrong. But nuances and tone are important as well.

The pik-3 strategy Steve laid out in this thread -- I first read about from Rich Nilssen (sp?) a very very long time ago when he was giving out handicapping tips on BRIS' Handicapper's (?) Edge. I've seen it elsewhere as well. It's not unique, it's very common.
I don't mind someone coming on here and giving out old betting advice if it happens to be sound, but people should be aware that the advice is certainly not original and has been around for a good long while. To me, Steve's post implies that it is Wisdom Coming from the Ages when he is really just endorsing a well-known Pik-3 strategy.


P.S. Note to Analyzer -- your long posts are hard to read. Try breaking them up into paragraphs.

[Steverr1]

"I am in hope that these reminders will help those who need them. I am not smart enough to have invented any of these "



Andicap,
This is how I started the thread. How you can read that I imply that this original is beyond me to explain.
In addition, outside of the abacus none of this math is original. Not by me, not by the authors you quote. Careful on what you Imply is my advice.

Steve

[toetoe]

Andi,

I didn't really infer that sense of knowing it all from Steve. You did, and that's fine. Seriously, we can't judge our own posts. That's up to the readers. You have questioned it, he has responded that that was not his intent and, aside from the Parthian shot at the end of his last post, that's an optimal exchange. :ThmbUp:

[Tom Barrister]

In dog racing (unlike horse racing), we only see the final time. It has occured to me that anyone with a stop watch could posisition himself at a single point ,lets say, around the finish line and measure the first dog to hit this point. We now have the unofficial equivelent of the 1st or 2nd call depending on how you look at it. Within a couple of weeks and keeping a ledger, we now have some pretty exclusive information on the last race 1st call for every dog in the race.
I've got to believe that someone is already doing this since it is such natural.
The question is- Would this single number truly add to the bottom line of the handicapper doing this?
Sorry if slightly off topic but wanted to post this query in response to Ken.

It's been done for 40 years, first live standing down at the end of the home straight, then from the track monitors, then from VHS replays that the track would sell, now from the web streams. The dogs are timed to the head of the first turn. On a 5/16 mile track it takes about 7.7 seconds for the lead dog in a Grade C, less for higher grades, more for lower grades. I always found it was a big waste of time. Some people swear by it. I have my own methods of charting, or 'trip handicapping' if you will. So do a lot of people.

---

So this thread is headed along the lines of the closed one. I see the same "prove it" theme and the same "share all your secrets" theme.

Did I miss something when I signed up here? Was there something in the terms and conditions about having to back up any claims made? Did one of the rules state that we have to share all of our secrets with the world? Was there a rule that said we have to table our agendas when we post?

If the man is being civil, I don't care if it's Kelso Sturgeon who's posting here, (so long as he doesn't try to sell his wares to us). If he gets a little testy----well I don't blame him, the way some of you have treated him.

[the little guy]

Just curious, why is it OK for you to express whatever opinions you deem relevant to a thread while apparantly the rest of us have to play by some different set of rules?

Or, perhaps your posts are just " streams of consciousness ".

[kenwoodallpromos]

Youi have to turn % probability of each single win into a fair odds payoff amount, then add all 3 payoffs + to get the overlay bet value.

[Vegas711]

Midnight, CJ brings up a very good point in response to your post that I quoted. I also have another point to bring up....

And I will address this to Vegas711 who at one time thought about sharing, but didn't want the grief, whatever that means....

LOOK TO BOXCAR'S RECENT POST, where he certainly shared with all of us. He did not get anything but positive responses.

Examine that post, compare and contrast with what has happened recently, and draw your own conclusions.

Those folks screaming from the rafters about how unfair this has all been are being melodramatic, and silly to boot. Stop painting this board as a place where nobody can share anything, "because if you try and share, you get nothing but flamed and criticized." :rolleyes:

That is certainly UNTRUE and UNFAIR for you guys to be implying this takes place. Look to the posts of GameTheory, Dave Schwartz, Barry Meadow, and scores of others who have shared throughout the years. They didn't get blown out of the water for sharing. So don't try and tell me that this is the norm around here. It's not.

That is NOT what I was implying. Maybe I just do not get it. If the info is free, WHY BITCH about it.

[toetoe]

Ken,

Don't forget that, just as you might stay in a poker hand hoping for an exponential leap in profit, should you hit your admittedly slim draw shot, a pick-three also has that latent value available. It's not really calculable, although if a longshot you've keyed gets hammered and wins, your juice in the serial bet will be sweet juice indeed.
I lack the means to make any real impact at the track but, theoretically speaking, the best trait I've acquired is the willingness to spread in pick-threes and pick-fours, but judiciously. I used to rigidly implement tlg's admittedly sharp, posted method TO A FAULT. I consider it crucial to use the miss-two in pick-threes and, if affordable, the miss-three in pick-fours, thereby benefitting from what Crist calls the "avoid-one" attack. When it comes in chalk-chalk-chalk, well, I may have it once on a backup ticket, and I may have a net-loss winning ticket, but those are more than balanced by the times a borderline no-hoper comes in, and I have it with or without big chalk in other legs. Then the payoff can be just a headscratching guess, and maybe colossal. I have the rest of the Riders Up to show some results, but if I fail miserably, it will be because of faulty handicapping, I assure you. So, Ken, it's worth going after a pick-three in this fashion, for me, provided the pool and takeout are reasonable.

[skate]

my mymy;

not easy gettin thru some post, especially mines.

but here we got this post about pick threes (which is part of the game), so get from "the post" whatever you prefer.

and then this post complains (now maybe "for a good reason"), whereby we later find that the complaining poster has thoughts about what might be benificial to others here.
so i guess the second poster figures that his "bet strategy" is less known? or of a stronger foundation, more worthy?

i would really like to meet some posters. just over a few beers or lunch. because all sorts of wonderments go thru my little head.

most often it seems as if "some" do not really read what is posted.


and that my mymy friend is
right out of My Book.
the original.

[Indulto]

Has anyone whose job it is to promote awareness of racing noticed that a certain poster’s ability/tendency/presence has apparently generated unparalleled interest and controversy here? I’m sure the FNYR wishes their recent report drew the same level of attention. Perhaps the NTRA would do well to bottle and analyze some of whatever it is this genie brings to the table.

For some reason I am reminded of my favorite “Rockford Files” episode where the actress who also played Bob (as hotel proprietor) Newhart’s wife, portrayed the female version of a TV advertising automobile dealership owner patterned after a well-known Southern California icon. Outrageous self-confidence and the ability to distract as well as to overcome objections can produce outstanding results. I also thought an earlier reference to a Pied Piper had relevance.

Even if no product is actually being sold, there seems to be some potential for this board’s being used as practice field for future cyber-self-promotion “Not that there’s anything wrong with that!”

[JustRalph]

For some reason I am reminded of my favorite “Rockford Files” episode where the actress who also played Bob (as hotel proprietor) Newhart’s wife, portrayed the female version of a TV advertising automobile dealership owner patterned after a well-known Southern California icon. Outrageous self-confidence and the ability to distract as well as to overcome objections can produce outstanding results. I also thought an earlier reference to a Pied Piper had relevance.

Ok, I will take a shot,

a: Suzanne Pleshette? B: Cal Worthington?

How about this one: Who is Suzanne Pleshette currently married to?

I do have to say I like the comment Vegas made...........if it is free info, yet redundant, why bitch?

I love these threads where a game show breaks out..............

[the little guy]

Her former Newhart co-star ( I believe ) Tom Poston.

[toetoe]

Indulto refers, I believe, to lovely, lovely Mary Frann, who, in her tragically short life, hit the heights at least once besides Newhartland --- she was TV hostess of no less than the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade.

SPlesh's agent and I always thought she was for the birds.

[toetoe]

Tom Poston was the voice of the Capital City Goofball on The Simpsonians. Now, that's fame.

[banacek]

Anybody here want to talk about Pic 3 methodology?

[karlskorner]

Took me awhile to get through this post. Saw your invitation and the offer of $1000.00 to come to Tampa. It's only a couple of hours up the Turnpike and across I-4 to get to TBD. I will save you the cost of plane trip and all the other expenses, just tell me where you sit. Have the $1000.00 ready when I get there. I will probably excuse myself after you hand me the money, at my age I go to the bathroom quite often, IF I DONT RETURN SOON, don't bother looking for me.

[Steverr1]

Not much to talk about but I am alive with the Pic 6 at Hollywood. Need the 1,3,6,7 to complete in the 8th. Spent too much time on the forum today. Overlooked a horse. It happens. We'll see.


Steve

[the little guy]

Please direct me to the other thread on this board where you listed your Pick-6 play before the first five races had been run. I can understand your not wanting to share your ticket before the first leg, but certainly you listed your play after getting through leg 1.

By the way, have you had a chance to ask your good buddy Beyer how he liked the movie today?

[the little guy]

I'm reminded of a funny story....


Years ago at Aqueduct there was a Pick-6 carryover and heading into the last leg it looked like nobody was going to hit it. Along came a racetrack acquaintance who announced he was alive with the 3 and 6. We were all some combination of impressed and incredulous.

The 6 won.

Nobody hit it.

[linrom1]

Please direct me to the other thread on this board where you listed your Pick-6 play before the first five races had been run. I can understand your not wanting to share your ticket before the first leg, but certainly you listed your play after getting through leg 1.

By the way, have you had a chance to ask your good buddy Beyer how he liked the movie today?

Little_guy you seem to be out of control and engaged in some kind of a pissing contest. It's time for you to get your act together and take a hike. I am getting tired of all this crap. I for one want to hear what Steve has to say.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Maybe it is just conjecture or using M/L to guess at public odds on 2nd and 3rd leg?

[the little guy]

And still another funny story....


There was a double carryover at Belmont and a horse I'm sure some people remember, Cody's Key, won the finale, a five horse feature ( possibly the True North Handicap ) at 30-1. I went running up to the fourth floor and said to a pretty infamous horseplayer that I am guessing some people here know that it was going to be a triple carryover. He told me that he GUARANTEED somebody hit it. I, as is my nature, argued with him. He offered me 100-1 on $1 that it was hit. Of course I took that bet.

He then announced that someone had told him he was alive with an all going into the last leg.

Nobody hit it....triple carryover.

All he said as he gave me the $100 was " I can't believe the guy lied to me ".

Can you imagine....someone lied at the racetrack?????

[kenwoodallpromos]

I have a positive racing website, and noted on prior threads the large number of views and posts, but not on this one. You beat me to it!

[the little guy]

So let me just get this straight....

The guy says he is going to play the Pick-6 carryover at Hollywood

Somebody else asks him to post his play ( and even suggests doing it after the first leg ).

He doesn't do this but does return to tell us he is alive with half the field in the finale.

I joke about it ( I'm guessing even Steve took it this way ).


And I'm the bad guy?

[twindouble]

Maybe it is just conjecture or using M/L to guess at public odds on 2nd and 3rd leg?

I don't know about you but the ML don't mean anything to me at all, just the potential off odds. I have a fairly good idea when I think I have something of value just by handicapping the race. All you have to do is look at the speed ratings and you'll know who the chalks will be. Yes, I'm talking about DRF speed ratings, not right on but close.

[the little guy]

I would tend to agree Twin. It shouldn't be hard to make a reasonable guess at the odds by looking at speed figures. Frankly, any morning line maker that doesn't use speed figures to determine his line is, at best, out of date.

[twindouble]

I would tend to agree Twin. It shouldn't be hard to make a reasonable guess at the odds by looking at speed figures. Frankly, any morning line maker that doesn't use speed figures to determine his line is, at best, out of date.

Just courous, do you have any interest in these computer programs? I know you concider the Beyer figures.

[JustRalph]

Her former Newhart co-star ( I believe ) Tom Poston.

Bingo ! He was born in Columbus Ohio,

http://www.tomposton.com/

Interesting thread here.............not sure which half to ignore................

[the little guy]

I don't have any interest.

I respect any serious handicapper but that doesn't fit my handicapping methods.

[Indulto]

TT,

Thank you for your memory. Mary Frann was indeed lovely. I first saw that Rockford episode in reruns, and so was able to recognize her from Newhart. Her performances in roles of opposite demeanor were outstanding. I am saddened to learn that she is no longer with us.

P.S., gorgeous George S. (boss).

Banacek,
The late George P. might have responded with an old polished proverb that says, "As it is better to give than receive, and a bettor strategy to lead rather than follow, so it is more productive to offer than request."

[exiles]

Steve, how much did you invest in the p6 today?:bang:

[banacek]

Banacek,
The late George P. might have responded with an old polished proverb that says, "As it is better to give than receive, and a bettor strategy to lead rather than follow, so it is more productive to offer than request."

Or "A truly wise man never plays leap frog with a unicorn"

(I guess the answer to my question is no)

[Tom]

With Survivor done until after the Super Bowl, this thread is a Godsend....it fills up that hour at 8 on thursday nights with much of the same brutal reality stuff I am now in withdrawl from.

THANK YOU everyone for this hilariously entertaining "meth." :lol:

[schweitz]

Anybody here want to talk about Pic 3 methodology?


Ok, I will---I ONLY play pick 3's----been playing the horses for 35 yrs---I have done just the form---then database---then trainer angles---now pick 3's.

Lost money doing only the form----lost money doing database---made some money doing trainer angles (but very labor intensive) and I make money doing pick 3's (not alot but better than losing).

I do not use the ABC method discussed on this thread but have tried it. I agree with toetoe and spread out in the pick 3.

My method:

1. I ONLY play tracks that I know really well.

2. I ONLY play pick 3s that meet the following conditions:
A. Distance ( 5f to 6.5f dirt only )
B. Class ( cheap claimers, maiden claiming, nw 2,3 lifetime )
C. Age ( no 2 yr old races )
Why the above? Because those are the conditions where I excel.
3. I play every horse in each leg that I think a scenario could develop where that horse could win.
4. If an obvious horse looks to win a leg AND be the overwhelming favorite I do not play that pick 3 UNLESS I have identified a large longshot that will go off as a longshot in another leg of that pick 3.
5. I ALWAYS play $1 pick 3s.

I spend between 36 and 72 dollars on most pick 3s and yes sometimes I hit a pick 3 and lose money---but I have learned that by spreading out (especially with the conditions outlined) I will catch my share of medium to longshots that pay well.

[Tom]

How many three race stretches do you find that meet 2A and B for each?

[toetoe]

Ken,

My unresearched experience tells me that if you can beat the favorite and second favorite in at least one leg, you can be alive to juicy payoffs. If the favorite is odds-on, all the better. The non-Form-buying, public handicapper-heeding, racing page-clipping average folks almost ALWAYS cover the first two favorites in every leg of a serial bet, I believe. Now, if I hit a chalk/chalk/chalk pick-three in a miss-two scenario, it will be on a backup ticket. I would not spend the extra money to move them all up to main-horse status. If I liked/feared them all that much, I would bang them multiple times or, more probably, save my dough for another sequence. But that is kind of a threshold for me, m.l.-wise --- 3rd favorite and higher.

[toetoe]

Assuming that is a rhetorical question, I'll remind you that many of us were safer from ourselves when we could only play one or two pick-threes per day. My God, if we can't pass up a few races or (holding my head here) AN ENTIRE CARD, then we're worse off than we previously thought.

[schweitz]

How many three race stretches do you find that meet 2A and B for each?

Today:

1 in Ohio 7/7
2 at Turfway
3 at Sam Houston
1 at Evangeline ( if You include th 4.5f race)

Some days none---somedays too many.

[Niko]

The first thing I look for in a pick three is eliminating the first two favorites in the first leg and being able to open up the second and/or 3rd leg. In my observation it appears people like to single what they believe to be a strong favorite or second favorite and spread in the final two legs to open the
pay-offs turning a 8/5 to a 4-1 etc.... I'm not smart enough to make that profitable so I make it work for me when I can and do the opposite.
Then apply some of the betting sequences mentioned on the board always keeping open the possibility of large ticket and an extra ticket or two with a strong favorite in the 2nd OR 3rd leg(which has been mentioned).
Well there goes my secret :eek:

Now figure out which lonshot I'm paying in the first leg :p

Steve is really boring me :sleeping: I'm putting this post to bed. I feel like the horse police chasing OJ the handicapper

[kenwoodallpromos]

Thank you!
In Ca many bet speed figures.

[analyzer]

And I quote:

"You can not prove or disprove the guilt you accuse Steve of ..."

If "insinuate" is Analyzerspeak for "imply," then you DID INDEED insinuate that tlg bore the onus of disproving Steve's previous claim. Failing that, the further implication is for tlg to shut up, stand in the corner, and do without his milk and graham crackers.TT- If this is your method of taking parts of what was written and calling it a quote by taking it out of context it is no wonder you are having difficulty understanding. You would not understand ANYTHING but TT speak because TT speak enables you to take portions of a post and fit them to what you want to write. Pull up the whole thing and put your ridiculous piece you used to make your BS point and I'll try to get down to your level and explain the post in its entirety since you have such difficulty with All I said. It is easier to make your point taking a part of a post and Backfitting to suit your purpose. You are quite a piece of work yourself. Sorry you and some others have difficulty keeping things in context and understand that context or dont read and bring in a bunch of things not even discussed into the equation. It is one thing to read but comprehension and context seems to be very problematic to you. Pretty easy to see through this hap hazard out of context effort.

[DrugSalvastore]

Not much to talk about but I am alive with the Pic 6 at Hollywood. Need the 1,3,6,7 to complete in the 8th. Spent too much time on the forum today. Overlooked a horse. It happens. We'll see.

You're the greatest! I take back everything I've ever said about you!!!

When I stumbled upon this post---I quickly logged into my betting account, and played a $40 Trifecta boxing numbers 2,4,5,8 (the only four horses you didn't use)

The trifecta paid a generous $773.40 for $1.

My simple $960 investment returned me nearly $31,000 !!! Thank you so much!!!

I know this is asking a lot---but can you please (pretty please!) post the half of the field that you like for each race at Hollywood Park tomorrow? Thanks in advance.

One lie deserves another---just sayin'

[Steverr1]

In regards to your question about posts Little Guy here is one that I posted at 2:14 PM today. Where is/are your selections? What insight do you have posted? Obviously I need some help and it appears you have the answers. I am all ears?

Meanwhile this is my post:

Hollywood 7th today.
At first glance it appears that Rattlesnake Joe is the horse. He may well be. Nevertheless if you are after the Pic 6 then be careful with this possible bullet. There is also Funky Friends right beside him and they both are Early speed.

Yesterday I posted that of 631 Sprint samples 84% have won from the 1-7 post. Exactly 42% from the 1-3 and exactly 42% from the 4-7. If you look at it another way about 8.5 out of 10 those posts have won the sprint at Hollywood. This statistic is of course no good for this race as there are only 7 horses in the field. (I think the 8 is a total toss to begin with so I mention the winning posts as a reminder when you are going over other races on the card).

But out of that same sample 48% of the winners or almost half won with early speed. So about half of 631 races were won with that running style.

My interest in this race is for the Pic 6 only so I have to ask myself am I safe with the Rattlesnake? On one ticket I will single him , but on my primary ticket I have to go deeper. The reason is that upon further review I can’t ignore that while the Jock and Trainer for the Rattlesnake have teamed up to win at 11% the Jock and Trainer for Funky have won at 32%. In actuality the 6 is the M/L favorite by a small margin.

Finally, I have to ask myself what if these two hook up and burn themselves out. What is the horse that can lay a little off the front speed and take the race if they both give out. I believe that horse to be Gomez’s’ mount El Salsero the #1 horse. On my primary ticket I may waste money by going deeper than the 5/6 but these type races can and often do cause carryovers in the pic 6 pool.

[PaceAdvantage]

PA- The very first paragraph totaling 4 SENTENCES of the above is ALL I am Referring to.

If that's the case, why did you have to go and quote Steve's ENTIRE LONG post? I had to edit your quote down. I hate it when folks quote VERY LONG POSTS in their entirety. There is no need for that. Edit the quote down.....

[twindouble]

If that's the case, why did you have to go and quote Steve's ENTIRE LONG post? I had to edit your quote down. I hate it when folks quote VERY LONG POSTS in their entirety. There is no need for that. Edit the quote down.....

I've been editing because when I saw everyone quote the intire post it irritated me scrolling all the time. Sometimes in haste I just hit quote, at least know I know I'm doing the right thing. Thanks.

[Steverr1]

Hello Drug whatever,

Hey, you are right-I blew the last race-no doubt. Like anyone I have excuses, but the truth is I was wrong. I am very happy that you finally found a way to win. Thats what I am all about. My loss is your gain. Your perception was right on because if you would have chosen any other race you would have lost your rear. How do you do it?

Please post your pics so that I can gain from your insight. With an avatar that starts with drugs you probably do live in a heightened state that may be too copious for my diminitive comprehension . Please post them.

Your Friend,
Steve

[the little guy]

I'll check back later when you have reprinted your posts from the other Pick-6 races. I'm sure there's more than one.

As far as my public selecting.....well I have done it, I continue to do it, and I will be doing it in the future. Many members of this board have seen me handicap entire cards live. Some have watched on TV and others have probably listened on the internet.

Unlike you I have not made brash pronouncements here about my enormous success. When I handicap publically I don't pat myself on the back when I stumble on a winner. It's just not my style. I play the game for money that I consider reasonably serious, though probably less than many here, and I would guess less than you. But, I would never give that information in a public chat room. Once again it's not my style. I don't feel betting a lot makes anyone a bigger man, or even a better handicapper, just as I feel small bettors aren't minimized by their play, nor is their opinion.

I don't denigrade your opinion, nor am I particularly interested in who you like, and contrary to what I'm sure many people will believe, I wish you the best of luck at the windows...the same good luck I wish all horseplayers. We may have our differences but we're also all in the battle.

[PaceAdvantage]

Little_guy you seem to be out of control and engaged in some kind of a pissing contest. It's time for you to get your act together and take a hike. I am getting tired of all this crap. I for one want to hear what Steve has to say.

Unfortunately for you, you have TLG pegged all wrong....but thanks for adding so much to the discussion.

[Bobby]

I honestly think you guys have lost it! Someone please tell me what this guy has offered here of value? A regurgitated P3 system that has been floating around since the day after P3s were offered? Or was it the "use my 5-2 shot in the super" tip? The offer to test any and all software, which I don't think ever led anywhere?

Maybe it was the 1/4% incremental betting technique? Maybe it was the alleged "8 for 8" picks at Tampa, though I don't see that either. The picks were pretty good, but hardly 8 for 8 by most rational person's scoring systems. I really am baffled.

Only thing I can figure is the he has gotten a few tips from the Pied Piper, and we know where his followers ended up.


I agree, with respect to the 1st post.

[PaceAdvantage]

You know, I am reminded of the LA riots...."Can't we all just get along?"

[PaceAdvantage]

And for the record, I believe most of the "naysayers" on this thread are misunderstood. They do NOT necessarily think that Steverr1 is LYING. I'm sure we can pretty much agree that he is who he says he is....CR Stables, Detective Agency (shudder), guy with $$$$, etc. etc.

The research I have done pretty much eliminates the possibility that this guy is some kind of impostor.

I think that those who are characterized as "naysayers" are irritated by Steve's style and board personality. This place has never taken well to self-appointed "Gurus" who blow into this place like a tornado, touting their accomplishments first and foremost, then offering to throw some scraps at the "huddled incompetent masses."

Let me know if I'm getting warm.....

[DrugSalvastore]

Your perception was right on because if you would have chosen any other race you would have lost your rear. How do you do it?

Well thanks---as you no doubt know---it's pretty easy to smush a race after you've seen the results.

I give up with this.

[Indulto]

Banacek,
I loved that TV show’s old “Polish” proverbs, but could never remember any. Hope you will share any others you can remember.

tlg,
What degree, denigrade, is the temperature maintained in the publically where you handicap? ;)

TT,
Safety from one’s-self should NOT be under-estimated. My self-confidence was at an all-time high when I lived in NY and the double and three exactas ($2 min) were as exotic as it got, and simulcasts were a rarity. Rather than spend all my pre-race time handicapping, I engaged more in watching horses, trainers, and women – all of which lent themselves to greater insights beyond the day’s card.

The P3 is the last worthy payoff generator still conquerable by the masses. I have no methodology per se, but a tendency to play higher purse series and to spread deeper into turf routes. IMO the best P3 is a P4 with a lock in one race. When I have actually won a healthy P3 or any P4, I generally had a strong opinion on at least two races and an ALL button candidate in another.

[Steverr1]

"huddled incompetent masses"

PA,

That you are wrong about. I don't think like that-on the contrary.

I am reminded about something someone said. I think it was George Wallace ..that in congress someone gets up and makes a speech..no one is interested or even listens. As soon as they set down everyone starts arguing about the issue that they didn't even hear..
Steve

[PaceAdvantage]

"huddled incompetent masses"

PA,

That you are wrong about. I don't think like that-on the contrary.

You may not think like that, but unfortunately, that's how you came off to a lot of people here....right or wrong....

[banacek]

Banacek,
I loved that TV show’s old “Polish” proverbs, but could never remember any. Hope you will share any others you can remember.


Here's a couple for you:

"Just because a dress is red satin, doesn't mean it comes off easily"

"Although the elephant has no stinger on its tail, the wise man would rather be sat on by the bee"

[Steverr1]

Tid bits of information??


Hmmm.. what other owner/trainer etc is on this board is giving insight to their horses???? Thats tid bits to you??? Please direct me to the ones that are.

I have attempted to start a learning base, but I can't get by the know it alls on the simple stuff. I know that most just want the 1-2-3 horses in everyrace given to them, but there are many who want to learn. It's almost impossible to continue. I started posting some real figures on bias...like everyone is walking around with that stuff in their head?? Sure... It pays off if you know when and how to apply it but I can't get that far. There are a few more things to add to the bias to get some killer plays. On my site CR Stables some time ago I posted $800 exactas from my Bris account. $500 $600 and recently if you played my pics for Tampa you would have nailed almost everything. Many people thanked me for the exacta's and win plays. I was to new for many to have faith, but several people that already know me played and won.

I believe in the basics. Building blocks if you will. Did you go to my old site for the day trading book? Most of my lifes work begins with building and I would expect to teach it the same way. When Dave Swartz stated something about hanging with winners the truth was told. Perhaps many don't get my style because they can't see things any other way. I don't care for those who are so blind they can't see oppotunity. When one attempts to give something back in a form that may can turn fortunes around it becomes more than an uphill climb. I even got attacked by that weird guy concerning my insight to the 7th at Hollywood. As a detective it was easy to see who they really are and it is almost funny.
In addition, I will keep my tid bits to a minimum so that I don't clutter the space. Not upset mind you, I am wasting too much time and it cost me today at the window.

Steve

[Light]

Intermission break. Go get a snack and take a few deep breaths.

Now lets hear from our sponsor. Steve.

(Fireside).

You know Steve the most blantant and obvious piece missing from all these discussions with you is the most important one. What did you use in your handicapping to make a million dollars?I tried to allude to the only paragraph I could find in all of this verbiage that seemed relevant,but you didn't get it. You mentioned that you were an Allways user from the begining. An All in One user. An Htr user.Several other software program user. To top that all off you are now thinking of delving into Jcapper. So can we cut to the chase. Without being too general,can you give your audience a description of how you pieced all these various softwares together to make a million. If software was not how you made your million,just how did you make it? I can't take the suspense :sleeping:

[PaceAdvantage]

Hmmm.. what other owner/trainer etc is on this board is giving insight to their horses???? Thats tid bits to you??? Please direct me to the ones that are.

Ummmm....the two most recent have been STORM CADET and MCSHELL RACING....see why it's smarter to GET TO KNOW an environment before JUMPING RIGHT IN AND WHIPPING UP A BIG BATCH 'O FRENZY?

That's all I'm saying....if you would have bothered to lurk a bit here before trying to impress us, you would have known that Storm Cadet and McShell Racing have given insight into their horses as owner (SC) and owner/trainer (McSchell).

You also would have realized that if you take on a certain persona, you're going to face some static....and I'm still not entirely convinced that static is a bad thing.

[Steverr1]

Light,

I am certain that at this time you are one of the few on this forum that wouldn’t understand a word of what I have to say, not one word. So set back, go into a mantra, get out your Tony Robins tape, get some hot chocolate and don’t upset yourself that I alone possess this esoteric magic formula. When you are better prepared in life let me know as I likely can help you where others may have given up attempting to expand your cerebral cortex

[Steverr1]

PA,

They may have-if you say. But where are their help posts since I have been around? I haven't seen a thing. And I enter the way I enter. Thats the way I do things. I keep telling you that some people are blind to winning ways. They say they want to win, but not really. Many never see that they often have to view things in a different way. It is easy for me to see that you have your ways. I guess you are happy with your winnings. I am with mine. But on the chance that you want things a little better take this advice. Be open to different styles. You seem not to like mine but you know I win. I must do something differently than some others to accomplish such a feat. Perhaps you can't see that?

I can't mention names because I am smart enough to know that about 20 people here would say that I am now as rich as such and such person. Let me simply say that every wealthy person I know has a similar attitude. Thats why people don't like or take them well. Truth is if you really desire to be wealthy there is a price to pay in this world. Its that way-like it or not.

[kenwoodallpromos]

"I know that most just want the 1-2-3 horses in everyrace given to them"
I've been sorting through everyone's ranting and now your slamming people with long words like "cortex" to try to find information about horserace handicapping from you. Frankly I'm getting tired of reading all the BS and am ready to digest some more useful information like you were starting to give.
I'm not just looking for picks- I can get that on almost every individual track site.
I am looking for bits and pieces of information I can incorporate with my handicapping and expand my ROI. If you are going to continue to post your methodology thinking on "selections" then that is where I will read your posts. Thank you.

[PaceAdvantage]

Be open to different styles. You seem not to like mine but you know I win. I must do something differently than some others to accomplish such a feat. Perhaps you can't see that?

What makes you think I am not open to different "syles." And what exactly are we talking about when we use the word style? Wagering style? Handicapping style? Personality style?

My recent posts in this thread are coming from the position as board admin. It really has nothing to do with handicapping or betting or money won.

I don't like your "board style", that's true. But if you're trying to tell me that it is necessary at times to be an arrogant prick to win at this game, I don't buy it....

[Light]

Light,

I am certain that at this time you are one of the few on this forum that wouldn’t understand a word of what I have to say, not one word. So set back, go into a mantra, get out your Tony Robins tape, get some hot chocolate and don’t upset yourself that I alone possess this esoteric magic formula. When you are better prepared in life let me know as I likely can help you where others may have given up attempting to expand your cerebral cortex


Can you get any more arrogant? This is the 3rd time I have asked you to explain something you have offered to explain and you have yet to do so. No I don't look at you to enlighten me. I am quite content with my own brand of handicapping.Simply explain to this audience(not me specifically) how you made a million.The only evidence you have provided of making a million are excuses.

[Vegas711]

If that's the case, why did you have to go and quote Steve's ENTIRE LONG post? I had to edit your quote down. I hate it when folks quote VERY LONG POSTS in their entirety. There is no need for that. Edit the quote down.....

I would like to do this. How do you do this ?

[PaceAdvantage]

I would like to do this. How do you do this ?

When you hit the quote button, it pops up a reply window where you can simply edit out whatever you'd like by highlighting text and hitting the delete button...

[twindouble]

When you hit the quote button, it pops up a reply window where you can simply edit out whatever you'd like by highlighting text and hitting the delete button...

PA, how do I go about digging up my Beginners thread and bringing to the top?

Thanks

[cj]

Hollywood 7th today.
At first glance it appears that Rattlesnake Joe is the horse. He may well be. Nevertheless if you are after the Pic 6 then be careful with this possible bullet. There is also Funky Friends right beside him and they both are Early speed.

Yesterday I posted that of 631 Sprint samples 84% have won from the 1-7 post. Exactly 42% from the 1-3 and exactly 42% from the 4-7. If you look at it another way about 8.5 out of 10 those posts have won the sprint at Hollywood. This statistic is of course no good for this race as there are only 7 horses in the field. (I think the 8 is a total toss to begin with so I mention the winning posts as a reminder when you are going over other races on the card).

But out of that same sample 48% of the winners or almost half won with early speed. So about half of 631 races were won with that running style.

My interest in this race is for the Pic 6 only so I have to ask myself am I safe with the Rattlesnake? On one ticket I will single him , but on my primary ticket I have to go deeper. The reason is that upon further review I can’t ignore that while the Jock and Trainer for the Rattlesnake have teamed up to win at 11% the Jock and Trainer for Funky have won at 32%. In actuality the 6 is the M/L favorite by a small margin.

Finally, I have to ask myself what if these two hook up and burn themselves out. What is the horse that can lay a little off the front speed and take the race if they both give out. I believe that horse to be Gomez’s’ mount El Salsero the #1 horse. On my primary ticket I may waste money by going deeper than the 5/6 but these type races can and often do cause carryovers in the pic 6 pool.

If this type analysis makes a million a year, I should be a billionaire by 2008.

Basically, if I am reading right, you liked the second choice, a horse I loved as well by the way, as anyone looking at my figures would guess.

But, you then add in that you better use the favorite because the trainer and jock have better winning percentages. Hmmm. They are both speed types, and the 5 was clearly faster than the 6, no contest. Not sure how anyone could make the 6 a win contender, but hey, racing is all about differences of opinion, no big deal. Now you have the first two choices as your picks. But wait, what if they hook up in a duel, then maybe a closer might win. Why not go with the 3rd choice?

So, thanks for the analysis, but I'm pretty sure I could come up with the public's top 3 choices all by myself. I don't play Pick 6s, and I realize the strategy is to cash the ticket even with underlays included, but still, I expect better from a millionaire than four paragraphs telling me why one of the public's first three choices in a six horse field is going to win.

[cj]

Tid bits of information??
Hmmm.. what other owner/trainer etc is on this board is giving insight to their horses????


Which insights would they be? The one that told us your turf horse wouldn't like dirt, the one that ran a very good second on dirt?

Or was it the use my 5-2 shot in the super?

[cj]

Lets lay it out on the line here, why this guy ticks me off, no holds barred.

First, he comes here claiming to have won a million dollars this year. If he did, great for him, but it doesn't even really matter. He claims he is going to teach everyone how to win, his way.

To date, he hasn't posted anything on this board that hasn't been gone over 100 times before. One of his big posts is this one, about a Pick 3 method. Not only has ILS from this board been using a similar strategy and posted about it, he posts actual picks. And guess what, the guy has posted tons of HUGE scores! If I see Jimmy's picks and he has included a bomb I dismissed, I'm going back and taking another look. Same thing with SAL and Midnight. Midnight posted a great run in the selections forum for a while, SAL consistently posts great selections. Why? These guys have proven history of giving out great selections, not because they announced they are winning players and they were going to teach us all how to do it. These guys have earned their reputation.

My first two posts on this board I gave out winner paying 20+ and 14+ and many others since. I was touting War Emblem from his allowance win at Spt all the way through his Preakness win. Not only that, I said exactly why. I laid it all out. Lots of other guys have done similar.

Many of us have met in person as a result of this board. We like this place, it is usually very friendly and you can learn a lot here. When guys like you come in with a "greater than thou" attitude, it will not be met with a pleasant reception. Especially when it smells of bullshit from the get go. You have posted so many inconsistencies I'm not even going to waste time pointing them all out. And still, like I said in the beginning, anyone touting "Longshot Larry" as his "agent" on a web site is a huge warning flag.

Give something of value here, and you will be respected. Keep spewing a bunch of bullshit, and you will be looked at as a bullshit artist. Most of us, though obviously not all, have been around the block more than once.

[analyzer]

PA- Sorry I made an error on your site. It did not take long for the kinder gentler you to leave and the old model to return. I am sorry Technology is Not my strong suit. At least I admit the error of my ways. You on the other hand and tlg and OZ Man toetoe not only do not understand or try to ask about something you did not relate to properly, You make another issue making it the fault of Others You brought a bunch of non apllicable mess in to support your Non Cases. Thanks for being kind enough to point out my lack of knowledge I am willing to admit. Sorry You can't examine some of Your Own Brilliance or Lack thereof. It is ok for You to point out some things supporting what You think but Your Gaff's should not be addressed. In case You still have Not been able to read the Major Point to My Posts it is You and Others apply Things Your Way and If Anyone points outs the same to You it Does Not exist. If you CAN"T or WON"T Read a Post with 4 lines in a sentence and then Read another Post #2 by tlg and understand the point being made You are beyond Help also. It appears You Do Finally understand but I accept My Error for not Simplifying it Enough for You initially.

[analyzer]

PA- Let Me Offer a Suggestion and see If You might be able to see a Less Abrasive Way. I do not understand a post you made earlier in this thread in reference to your Concern steverr1 may have used Copyright protected information in a post ON YOUR SITE. Please Help Me understand #1 what portion of his post YOU READ caused You to be concerned about a copyright Issue enough to Ask Others who owned anything They Might provide You for You to examine in an attempt to See If a copyright issue may have existed? I hope you will Explain and I will respond to your explanation? Thanks.

[Steverr1]

CJ,

You see the difference between me and you are that I like you. I can learn a lot from you and your selections. Your methods must work considering the 100 plus plays you make a day. I would love to see your selection process. Come on, teach me. I don't want you to give me the just the winner because I want to know all the steps to get there from you.

I notice that your argument process is selective. Easy to do. Pick pieces in the snip and display them out of context. I could do that to your last post. Instead I am asking you nicely to explain how to win at the track.

Granted, I haven't got there yet, but I was doing it the way I thought (right or wrong) would help those newbie’s understand. Is it fair to come to a board and just say "pace makes the race"? What the heck does that mean to those beginners? Take the entire top last pace horses in each race forever? That doesn’t do it for me, how about you? Wait does it mean to use the horse that has run the fastest pace in the race over this track or can I also use Finger Lakes pace? On, and on the questions come to mind for the new players. To keep a horse racing Fan they MUST understand all this stuff. If they don't they will not come back. Ask your wife or companion. That is why I begin with what works for me--Knowledge of the Game-Discipline-And MONEY management.

In an attempt to just get basic ideas out you and a few others slam them all instead of letting those who wish to learn get anything from the lesson. You do this and that better. You , you, you.. always on the attack. I can be very good at it also, but I do my best not to get to involved.

If you like, I will lurk while you teach. I want attack your methods even if I don't agree. I may ask a question, but I will not attack. You say that I can't be successful because of this reason or that reason. OK by me. I am surrendering the floor to you for teaching purposes. Please take me up on this. I love this sport.

One other thing. By teaching the way I do I have many lady friends, my wife included who can cheer right with the men and understand things like track bias, pace, and how to maximize their wagers. They enjoy the sport. My wife goes with me everyday I attend and helps cheer all the winners. She wrote a song that played on the local stations in Kentucky during a Kentucky Derby. The Florida Horse wrote a big spread about the song “We Love Horse Racing” a few years ago. The publisher plays it every morning to put him in a better mood according to Melissa Sykes who wrote the article. I am also a record producer, how about that.

[kenwoodallpromos]

I'm done with reading Steve's threads.

[the little guy]

One other thing. By teaching the way I do I have many lady friends

You have posted many funny things, I especially liked the quote from last night " You know I win ", but this last one is a true side splitter.

Quite a list of accomplishments you have, you Lady Killer you, but where do you place this last one...... next to being directly associated with " Longshot Larry "?



By the way, sorry in advance to Steve's admirers, who are now, I'm guessing, hoping to meet women through him in addition to getting winners.

[Steverr1]

The Little Guy.


I had an idea that you may respond. Where have you been? I opened the door just for you. Now, that you took your shot here is why I mentioned teaching the ladys. They are the hardest to win over for the track. On threads we tend to ignore them. Many lady trainers, but few women at any track. If that be the case then where and how do we get the next generation to view this wondeful sport? Point is, we haven't been successful. Thats all there is too my post. Lets teach. No more, no less. Attack if you like.

Steve

[PaceAdvantage]

I do not understand a post you made earlier in this thread in reference to your Concern steverr1 may have used Copyright protected information in a post ON YOUR SITE. Please Help Me understand #1 what portion of his post YOU READ caused You to be concerned about a copyright Issue enough to Ask Others who owned anything They Might provide You for You to examine in an attempt to See If a copyright issue may have existed?

Actually, it has nothing to do with what *I* read in Steve's post, but other posters' comments that led me to ask the question about copyrighted material. Somebody posted that Steve was simply putting out here a method that appeared in a book. If it was not this thread, then it was another thread where the title of a book was mentioned. I had not read that book, so I am unfamiliar with the work.

Thus, I was prompted to ask those who are familiar with the work if Steve had inadvertently posted copyrighted material verbatim. That's all. It's my job to be vigilant with these sorts of things. I hope you understand.

[Light]

Steve

Nice turnabout Steve.From a self proclaimed arrogant millionaire to a wanna be humble guy asking to learn from Cj and tlg. You have never answered one real question directly. Why should anyone discuss handicapping with such an insincere fellow as you.

[joeyspicks]

EXACTLY Light

Why do so many keep responding? Is it because Steves a millionaire ?

Big F'ing deal! Ok. If this guy wasnt a owner and millionaire (in ANOTHER BUSINESS by the way)........you guys would not only just laugh it off but STOP PAYING ATTENTION.

I have asked repeatedly about motive.....why the hell would a "successful" guy woth millions ACT IN THIS MANNER ? ? ?

What the hell's going on?

TWILIGHT ZONE music is definitly playing and this is getting boring.

TAMPA travel challenge (laughable)
KNows George S (the BOSS) ....big deal ( be more impressed if it was Springsteen)

SPoke of money management (much to my delight) and then proceeded to go over old, PUBLISHED years ago money management materials.


GUYS WAKE THE HELL UP...

STOP

IGNORE

HE WANTS attention ( why I cannot fathem?)...

Is he succesful at horse racing because he spends $2400+ on pick 6 plays

THINK ABOUT THAT FELLAS.......Again BIG F'ING DEAL !!!

CONTRIBUTIONS OR NEW IDEAS: O

[GaryG]

I agree with Joey. This was like a soap opera at the beginning, but now it is just a total waste of time. My take on him is: He is a successful businessman with a huge ego and is a recreational player. The name dropping is ridiculous. I will not mention this again or will I read any more of these threads. :bang:

[toetoe]

Analyzer,

Please preface all posts with "Analyzer to Earth, Analyzer to Earth," for I figure if you say things twice, I'll probably be more accurate when quoting you, being contextually disingenuous as I am. My team and I are working are working furiously to decipher your last two posts. Lemme tell ya, hot glows the work. (Virgil reference alert!)
You've managed to make this thread extremely entertaining. I liken it to a thread on About.com many months ago, as good as About can ever get. The thing is, PA has more, so much more.

Indulto,

While girl-watching at west coast tracks is a sordid affair, I still engage in it. Herewith some angles, not to say curves, derived by my Crewe (pun alert!) and me, on O'kaysion (ALERT!).
1) brassiere off --- usually positive;
2) visible kidney sweat --- negative;
3) tongue tie --- usually positive.
None of these is infallible. Employ on a Takach-as-Takach-can basis.

Steve,

I have always found Mr. Light to be cortically sufficient. Not too big, either. Just about right, I guess. I'm pretty sure I could not climb up in there, but that's fine, as I'd never try to get into anybody's head that way.

[hurrikane]

I have sat here reading this thread and all I can do is shake my head.

For the people Steve bothers. Hit the ignore button. Then the only people reading his threads are the people that want to.

Let me think back.

One person came on here proclaiming 'I am going to be a public handicapper and sell my picks.' I am the only one that said bullshit.

This has happened a few times. I think it just has to do with the way a person rubs you. I didn't get the feeling Steve said he was god. Just that he was here to test any software we wanted him too and give the results.
As for the millionare thing, he offered proof. That a whole lot more than most up here will do. In fact I think CJ is the only person here that has posted actual numbers.

I'm guessing there is only one place this is going to go.
Someone will throw down the gauntlet.
There will be a challenge.
Someone will pic a 7/2 horse.
People will yell and scream that this picker of the 7/2 shot is the God of all that walks the earth.

We'll all go away shaking out head.

[BillW]

I have sat here reading this thread and all I can do is shake my head.

For the people Steve bothers. Hit the ignore button. Then the only people reading his threads are the people that want to.



'kane,

This site would go a lot smoother if that strategy was employed more often. :faint:

[Steverr1]

I was going to post my play for Aquduct but you changed my mind:


<Could not get the insert from my account in this space>






I did send them to those who appreciate such things. This is just the beginning for my day. It gets better.



Steve

[toetoe]

Hurricane,

Herewith my own proof of my prowess, by the knuckle-draggingly low standards of this thread.

1979, Lingfield Park, Jolly Old England: I KILLED 'em. The bookies cried while I was there, failed in their attempts to assassinate me, and threw a party when I left. Please don't get any ideas from that last part.

1980, Gavea, Rio De Janeiro, Brasil: Played Goncalino Almeida and Jorge Ricardo all night, practically swept the card. No 5% guarantee down there, so sometimes I cashed for no profit, but a winner's a winner, right? (Careful, this may be a test.)

1988, Vina Del Mar, Chile: I only played guys with Spanish-sounding names. Guess what? Another profitable night.

Please, naysayers, keep it to yourself. This thread is about the love, okay? You nattering nabobs of negativism probably lie at dice, and not only bluff, but CHECK AND RAISE at poker! That's not nice at all. We effete snobs, if we were not agnewstics, would pray for your souls.

[PaceAdvantage]

I tire of this repartee....when a user starts to disrupt the normal ebb and flow of things, it's always a sign to me to man the battle stations.

[Steverr1]

There seems to be some type of linguistic confusion. Surds (absurd), irrational and imaginary numbers, singular perturbations, degenerate kernels, strange attractors yet a degenerate kernel or a singular perturbation may be more useful than a nondegenerate or regular one. Don’t you agree?

[Indulto]

TT,

The poster of the moment was finally going to address my biggest problem in racing: I’ve never been able to convince a woman to go to the track with me two weekends in succession, fahgeddabout two days in a row! NOW he decides to lurk.

Now what’s this latest ditty just as I am about to post – something akin to “Mares eat oats . . a kid ‘ill eat ivy too, wouldn’t you?”

P.S., 1) brassiere-off --- stable relationship, 2) tongue-tied --- non-celebrity in paddock

[toetoe]

Wish I could be more constructive. My women have all been much faster than my horses.

[cj]

It is called the search function. I don't think I ever have an idea or method of play I haven't shared here. If you think I'll repost them all again to satisfy you, don't hold your breath.

[Vegas711]

177 posts , how many of these discuss Pic 3 betting?

Think for once about the people who read these threads, when they see that 177 posts are written on a subject, they are given the inpression that there may be a lot to be learned. All this BICKERING back and forth is a waste of time. I am getting sick and tired of it.

I could care less about someones ego, I like many visit this site to gain knowledge and exchange ideas, nothing else. So knock it OFF!!!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:

[midnight]

I tire of this repartee....when a user starts to disrupt the normal ebb and flow of things, it's always a sign to me to man the battle stations.

Actually, "repartee" would be a misnomer, since there's very little in this thread and the related one that's witty, imo.

(WARNING: this is going to be a long-winded post. Those of you who are bored by my sermons would do best to skip down to the next entry in the thread.)

Things have been disrupted since post 5 or 6 in the first thread, which started oin 12-7-2005, or nine days ago. Things have been in an uproar ever since. Better late than never, I suppose. When you do open fire, be sure that you're aiming at the right targets.

Pardon me, but I don't agree with the rest of you. I understand the furor. Egos have been bruised, and the injured are lashing back. Insecurities are surfacing, with the usual problems that ensue from such. That's human nature.

CJ made a point that I lash out at system sellers and other hucksters. Indeed, I do, because such lowlife can prey on innocent people (newbies for example) who aren't as enlightened as the rest of us are. I've (rightfully or wrongfully) appointed myself to be the man who will make sure that whoever reads posts made by these people will know in no uncertain terms that all may not be as claimed. Even in doing so, I still believe that I'm fair (see my review of Tom Console's "Instapick Pro). You won't see me get out of line very often, and so when I do get agitated, there must be a good reason.

I've reread both posts, another 20 minutes of my life that I can never get back. In doing so, I'll concede that Steve is beating around the bush a lot. I'll admit that he's been arrogant. He's dealt a low blow or two. He certainly does pontificate to great length without delivering much of substance. However, I can come to the same conclusions for any or all of the above in regards to a lot of you, as well. These two threads have brought out the street-punk in more than one of you, and the guttural and callous behavior is a bit surprising. Instead of welcoming our guest, some of you have been pushy, equally rude (BEFORE Steve got out of line himself), and righteous, rather than being patient, tactful, and mature. The heat of battle brings out one's true colors, and it's plenty hot here.

As I've often said in the past, when I buy a new system, book, etc., I'm not expecting a magic-wand that will lead me to a life of luxury. I'm hoping for one little idea, bit of information, or new perspective that will help me down the road. At the level I play at (and I suspect many of you play at the same and higher levels), the $15-50 that I spend will pay for itself down the road. In reading what Steve's said, I didn't expect a magic-wand, either. However, I get the impression that many of you do, and it's frustrating a few of you that he won't snap to attention and perform the instant you bark at him to do so. I've been on this planet for over half a century, and I can say that out of the two-hundred or so self-made millionaires that I've known, know of, or have met, that none of them----not one out of the two-hundred---will let people push them around or tell them what to do, unless they're required to (such as by law). I sense that this is how Steve is reacting to your behavior towards him. But I digress: the reason for rehashing my reasons for buying systems is that something that he said in each of the two threads got me to thinking about something related to it. As a result, I went over to my friend's house, added it to my own method, and tested it on his ten-year database. The result: a 3% increase in ROI for the ten year period, very consistent from year to year. Those of you who play professionally know that 3% more profit (or less loss) without any extra work is a huge thing. It will soon be hard-coded into my program.

That doesn't mean that I vouch for Steve as some kind of handicapping Deity. The point is that I found something very useful in what he posted. I fear that too many of you want everything condensed into one paragraph, that can be instantly applied, and that works wonders. Well, we should all know by now that it isn't that easy. You have to sift through pan after pan of rocks, mud, and water to get the little bit of gold left in the stream. But you won't find any gold if you aren't looking for it, and you certainly won't find anything of value in what anybody says if your mind is closed to them and you're spending your time arguing, trying to word your next clever insult, showing the world how worldly and wise you are to "see through this fraud", or whining about how they won't do as you wish.

It's obvious that Steve has rubbed quite a few of you the wrong way. What may not be obvious to you is that a lot of YOU have rubbed ME the wrong way (long before Steve arrived), I'm sure I rub a lot of you the wrong way, and probably 95% of the regular posters in this forum rub somebody else the wrong way. We all have our pet peeves, and each of us likes and dislikes certain traits in others. Clash of personalities is basic to a closed environment, which is essentially what a message board is. However, in occasionally getting on each other's nerves, we usually manage to tactfully get along with each other, overlook the differences, and learn from ourselves. Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case with our dealings with Steve.

I can't control what the rest of you do, but until I see or it's been reported that the man actually tries to sell something to somebody else here, on the forum or in private messages, I'm not going to make any demands of Steve, and any criticism I have of him will be objective and based on his performance. That's how I feel about it, and your views may differ.

[JackS]

Serial killers, child molesters and worst of all, violent home invader specialist. There all here . Be afraid, be very very afraid.

[midnight]

There seems to be some type of linguistic confusion. Surds (absurd), irrational and imaginary numbers, singular perturbations, degenerate kernels, strange attractors yet a degenerate kernel or a singular perturbation may be more useful than a nondegenerate or regular one. Don’t you agree?

My man, I've been sticking up for you all this time, and now you're quoting things verbatim from a website.

The quoted text can be found here (http://www.cut-the-knot.org/language/hersh.shtml)

If you're going to pontificate, at least compose your own sermons. It also might help to be familiar with what you're saying, since higher mathematics doesn't exactly correlate to the study of language.

Now I get to spend another hour or so looking around the web to find out if the font of some of your posts is different from default because you're copying and pasting things from elsewhere.

[DrugSalvastore]

For the people Steve bothers. Hit the ignore button. Then the only people reading his threads are the people that want to.

Yea---that was my plan originally. However, I feel as though he is stealing something away from me.

We are all the way into Mid-December of this year---and I felt I was the 1-to-20 favorite to win the highly prestigious title of: 2005 Internet Attention Whore of The Year on PaceAdvantage.Com

I felt I had worked very hard all year long to win this award--and damn it, I DESERVE IT!!! But, to have this weasel, in the VERY late stages of this month, storm into this place and put my act to shame....I can't tell you how angry that makes me feel! I've worked very hard for this--and I'm watching all my hopes and dreams go up in smoke! HOW DO YOU THINK I FEEL ABOUT THAT??

I was already prepared for my debut on the Jan '06 cover of my favorite magozine--Attention Whore Weekly--now, it's a lock that Mr. Steve Richardson of Tampa will replace me. Maybe PA was right when he told me "there will always be someone out there better than you. You can't be the best!" LOL!!! I can't extend this any further.

http://images15.fotki.com/v229/photos/2/28436/199565/AWW-vi.jpg

[chickenhead]

post of the year Drugs, hands down.

[DrugSalvastore]

post of the year Drugs, hands down.

Thanks---since Steve stole my most coveted prize...I guess I'll settle for that.

[cj]

By the way, sorry in advance to Steve's admirers, who are now, I'm guessing, hoping to meet women through him in addition to getting winners.

This one has to at least get minor award.

[joeyspicks]

:lol: :lol:


"how to get strangers to pose for pictures so they look like friends"

Good one DrugS


TODAY has been a hoot

I mean I hit 8 for 8 at Aqueduct ( although I DID hit the wrong button a couple of times)...


wow
excuse me guys I gotta appointment with Oprah....shes gonna interview me about my book that ALMOST got published, once.... oh about 10 years ago...I can mail you drafts....damit

[Light]

I believe you will find this thread in Steve's upcoming book entitled "How to make enemies and piss people off".

[Steverr1]

Midnight,


I think you made some very good posts. I really do. I have said before that there can be much learned from people who don't agree with your beliefs. In regards to the math statement I wondered who besides CJ, Kenwoodallpromo,PA, actually did research. I know now that you do. What surprises me more that CJ didn't respond first.

I respect good researchers. I think you may be very good. So, I ask you to share with us what software you rate # 1 from that research. My great interest is to improve my own game. I strive to do that everyday. I am sure most do, but I take it to extremes. Just yerterday I learned about Paceappraiser and I am giving that a spin. Any that you can suggest?

[the little guy]

It's always good to have an excuse ready when caught plagurizing.

I'm just curious if the Dean ever accepted that excuse.

[toetoe]

I adore this thread, I pray it lives forever. The repartee, as long as we don't try to make someone feel small, is wonderful.

DrugS, I'm afraid your fifteen nanoseconds of prostitutional fame, won at great cost against all comers, have run their course. Steve has replaced you in my perturbation fantasy.

I'm sure I whined about setting down the wrong numbers in the Riders Up last weekend. I had the pick-four figured pretty well, blew the execution, and missed out on $1,600, or however much it was. I posted to vent my frustration with MYSELF, not in some excuse-laden pitch for pity/glory. Also as a don't-let-this-happen-to-you reminder. Any needling or sniping would be tolerated, no problem. The hardest one on me is myself.

[toetoe]

Dale Carnegie's latest, "Winning At The (Social) Graces," comes highly recommended. :)

[keilan]

Steve it is a rare day indeed that I’m embarrassed for anyone on the internet. It makes me shudder to think if any of your friends or family have been following the threads here.

[Steverr1]

Hello Keilan,

Who said that I have family or friends? Did I ever say that? Well I do have a wife and she is a friend so I guess that counts.

Can't see though it? All of a sudden a statement that doesn't say anything? Bait. (Of course I opened it up for all to say that I never say anything but don't waste your time) Much like a few horses did to me today. I have my reasons senoir.

I like the # 3 Yes the number 3 to win the first at Tampa. Is is my fault he is 9/5. The number 5 is a strong contender. 35/248 or 35/2345 exacta. Depends on the odd's near post.

Steve

[midnight]

Midnight,


I think you made some very good posts. I really do. I have said before that there can be much learned from people who don't agree with your beliefs. In regards to the math statement I wondered who besides CJ, Kenwoodallpromo,PA, actually did research. I know now that you do. What surprises me more that CJ didn't respond first.

I respect good researchers. I think you may be very good. So, I ask you to share with us what software you rate # 1 from that research. My great interest is to improve my own game. I strive to do that everyday. I am sure most do, but I take it to extremes. Just yerterday I learned about Paceappraiser and I am giving that a spin. Any that you can suggest?

The best software is the one that the player can use most profitably. That varies from person to person. Too much software is overfocussed on pace, in my opinion.

While others may have different results, my OPINIONS on software I've tried are:

HTR is excellent and offers something for everybody. It's basically a pace program, but it also has trainer stats, speed figures, composite ratings, etc. I don't use it anymore because I'm not a pace handicapper. My primary use for it was to do Access database research, and I've pretty much pushed that as far as I can with HTR.

JCapper isn't also good and has some database capabilities.

Paceappraiser has some interesting concepts and would probably be a useful tool for somebody into pace handicapping.

The rest I've tried (Longshot Finder, Instapick Pro Ultimate, Synergism by Bob Purdy, ProPace, CompuTrak, ADPA Focus 2000, Diamond by Bob Pandolfo, QuickHorse, and probably others) weren't my cup of tea, but that doesn't mean that they aren't any good.

I espeically did not like Stealth by Winner's Circle, but again, some people do.

I haven't tried CJ's program or HSH yet. Both have their supporters. CJ's is limited to X users, and I didn't get a copy before they'd all been sold. I haven't bought HSH yet and probably won't because I don't want to pay the $129 per month for data files when I'm already paying for BRIS/TSN.

I also haven't tried Equisim or Poweronline, which are also said to be good. I played around with the demo for Equisim, but not extensively. I've never seen Poweronline.

I'd be willing to test any software fairly and objectively, including Poweronline and Amazing Capper, but I'm not willing to shell out $400-$1,000 to do so. I know that could be interpreted as looking for a freebie. I'm not. I have my own personal program, and I'm happy with it.

[kenwoodallpromos]

http://www.trackmaster.com/retail/3rd_soft.htm

[keilan]

Hello Keilan,

Who said that I have family or friends? Did I ever say that? Well I do have a wife and she is a friend so I guess that counts.

Steve


Sorry, I thought you had mentioned last weekend that you had friends coming over to watch the fight.

I don’t mean in any way to bait you, I just hope for your sake that if you have anything to offer the members here that you get to it. I think most players can find their own winners but many of us continue to struggle with money management. If that is your strong suit “lets hear it” if you’re going to regurgitate from books that you’ve read, you’re in tough.

Finally I suspect you played from home today and have a copy of your wagers. If I were you I’d somehow have someone from this board verify that you made that p6 wager at Aqu. I wouldn’t suspect that anyone is capable of making the exact same mistake punching a p6 ticket with youbet or whoever and posting on this board.

Your creditability took some head shots today.

[Steverr1]

Keilan,

You are right. I do have a few friends, maybe a lot. I noticed my mistake some time after the race and just wanted it clear. That 4 was absolute chalk. I indicated that I thought the chalk was ruling in my post and in my haste I typed out the wrong horse. Now for those who back post it usually is done to convince you that they had some huge longshot certainly not with chalk. Wouldn't make sense to even me? Just attempting to keep the record straight. Bet that I will be more careful next time. I have done that too many times. Happens a lot with my Bris account because I follow to many tracks I guess or just getting old.

Don't think you will find anyone who knows me who would attest that I am not a man of my word.

Steve

[midnight]

I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of concrete bricks here.

I guess I'm not going to reach my goal of 1,000 posts here.

[keilan]

Keilan,

I noticed my mistake some time after the race and just wanted it clear. That 4 was absolute chalk. I indicated that I thought the chalk was ruling in my post and in my haste I typed out the wrong horse. Now for those who back post it usually is done to convince you that they had some huge longshot certainly not with chalk. Wouldn't make sense to even me? Just attempting to keep the record straight. Steve



Steve -- you’re quite right it makes no sense to cry mistake on a horse paying $5.30 especially after the first two legs pay a measly $5.50 & $6.40.

I didn’t handicap the card so I have no idea whether the #3 horse could be considered a contender for the win spot.

Despite everything that has transpired here the past week or so I have a sense that you would be a totally different cat in person. The internet is a difficult medium, I wish you well. :)

[keilan]

I guess I'm not going to reach my goal of 1,000 posts here.


Really, what a shame :eek:

[Steverr1]

Keilan,

I forgot to mention another thing. At Aqueduct--as you know I have been posting the bias for a few days--the 4 that many questioned is an E horse. E takes 56% wins on the Inner D. Sprint. As was the #9 an E horse, which completed the exacta. The 3 was a "S" style- a no play to win in that race.

I listed the horses I thought were the top contenders in the race. I play multiple tickets and used the 4 on many. I also had the 9 and a few more. However, in all my wisdom I was only 4 of 6 today. But I did have a good day at Aqueduct betting wise. I did not chase or spend that much money on this Pic 6 in the grand scope of things..

Steve

[analyzer]

PA- I do agreewith you about the importance of you being vigilant and I especially agree with you about being vigilent about copyright issues. I now understand the reason you questioned the copyright issue and why. It makes Perfect sense. I will now PM you with the remainder of why I asked about the right protection issue as in My opinion I prefer not to finish my question publicly. Thanks.

[toetoe]

Keilan,

I'm in total agreement as to the money management issue.

[keilan]

U know Toe, I’ve been making the some of the same wager errors going on 25 years. I’ve talked to myself till I’m blue in the face and that hasn’t helped much either.

Hearing it from a total stranger probably wouldn’t change my mindset anyways. :bang:

[toetoe]

The Great Leap Forward for me was even RECOGNIZING it. I just thought I was unlucky or inept as a handycrapper. My eye-opener was embarrassingly recent. It's about the mgmt., and if rebates are involved, so much the better for the bottom line.

[hurrikane]

Drug,

you got me laughing. I didn't even know there was a rag or contest. Now I have yet one more goal to achieve. Thanks :D

Steve,
comment on the bias you are stating. I'm not so sure. 43% winners for E horses. a similar % of the horses that run are 'E' horses. Not a lot on the IV there to indicate a bias to me.

have to respect that you post your picks. Interesting as there is no upside to doing that, as I have learned.

If they are good the odds will get beat down by the people that can't make up their own minds. If they are not you will have to live with an endless barage of bs.

Unless of course you start a thread called 'How to make money' in which case it is ok if you lose and you will be embraced.

[Tom]

I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of concrete bricks here.

I guess I'm not going to reach my goal of 1,000 posts here.

You can have a couple hundred of mine. :rolleyes:

[toetoe]

My Riders Up ticket was essentially a pick-three with a single in front of it. The winners in legs 2 and 3 were backups, as almost everyone would agree. My downfall was making the first-time Levine a backup in the nightcap. So, I had single / backup / backup / backup. The goal with "illogical" winners such as off-the-pace-for-the-first-time-ever Storm Boot Gold is to stay alive at all! Of course, a (single x 6 x 7 x 4) ticket, costing $168, would hit, but maybe I outfoxed myself. If 1 or 7 won the second leg, I'd have it, for less money, esp. with 7. If 7 won the third leg, I'd have it for MUCH less. If 7 won the second, and 7 won the third, it wouldn't pay jack booty crap, anyway.

Anyway, as Keilan posted somewhere, it's all about money management, and 5 x 5 x 2 x 4 just isn't optimal management to me, usually. As Gary Radunich would say, "Your thoughts?"

[Tom]

You will not be assured of winning if you follow theses simple rules, but if you violate even one of them, you CANNOT cash a Pic3:

1. Bet only tracks that are open
2. Bet only on races offering Pic 3 wagering.
3. Bet only horses entered in those races
4. Bet before post time.
5. With real money
6. Make a selection in every leg


I think the database guys will be able to verify these rules as absolutes.

:rolleyes:

[kenwoodallpromos]

How about "Don't tear up your tickets until the race is official"? :bang: