New Whales?

[Tom]

Watching races at Penn tonight, you might as well forget looking at the odds until after the race over. Theyare changing well after the horses cross the finish line and some are BIG changes (5-1 to 8-5 after the race is over????)
Hard to believe there is a whale out their-Penn pools are pretty small fish (HEHEHE).
I am begining to see why so many peole are leaving the track and going to the casinos....this game is just doesn't seem worth the effort anymore.
Time to go play blackjack.
Tom

Since the jockey/trainer scandal there last year I have very little confidence in the operations at Penn.

[ridersup]

I have posted on numerous occasions that I believe there are open keys somewhere that allow people to wager well after post time.

On at least three occasions at my home track I have witnessed bettors using self service machines betting well after 4f of a 6f race was run. Now Im sure these were malfunctioning machines but as I stated before if this can happen accidently surely with all the computer genuises out there some one can do this on purpose.

I have watched my odds melt on numerous long shots while the race was running and even while the horse was walking to the winners circle. This is a serious problem and one that is discussed daily at the many different facilities I have bet at.

Solution: Stop the betting 2min before post time. At least then you won't have to watch your money melt before your very eyes.

[JimG]

In all fairness I have seen the odds go up or down on my horse after the race has started and it wins.

Jim

My favorite example occured a couple of years ago at Hastings park, my local track. I had a bet on what I thought was a "live" horse, going off at 8-1.

First turn, the horse had good position, second on the outside. Odds dropped to 5-1.

Backstretch, another horse moved up the rail ro engage the leader. My "live" horse sat third, in the catbird seat. Odds dropped to 7-2.

On the turn for home, My "live" horse moved up the rail, looking like it was going to blow by the tiring 2some. Odds dropped to 5-2.

In the stretch my "live" horse flattened out, eventually finishing 5th. Final win odds 8-1!!!

I don't go to Hastings much anymore.

Mikekk

[Tom]

Originally posted by mrdezo
Since the jockey/trainer scandal there last year I have very little confidence in the operations at Penn.

I know what you mean, but I was weaned on Finger Lakes, so it has to be pretty crooked before I will notice.
Seriously, there are a lot of Pen races where you just have to shake your head and let them have it. But there a lot of Pen races where decent horses pay big and they look like contenders on paper. If I was to quit playing every track where I thought they fixed some races, I would be going bowling a lot. Life is crooked, every game is tainted and every organization you encounter is somewhat fixed in one way or another. Even the Pope was in bed with the Nazis! So why should I expect more from some third rate jock or trainer who is stoned, drunk, broke, or in hock?
When I till my garden every fall, I eat what looks good and turn over what looks brown. Sometimes I eat something I shouldn't.
Tom

[hurrikane]

Interesting stories. Most totes i've seen weren't efficient enough to change the odds 4 -6 times during a race. There may be something crooked going on at times but I believe most of it stems from simulcast money and online betting. The either need the simulcast money to form it's own odds as it did in the beginning of simulcast or cut off the betting 2 min before post. They could allow the return of tickets up until post but not buy anytickets after the 2 min. Hmm..no on second thought that won't really help, you would just have to sit and watch the odds drop before the race begins instead of after.
As for Pen...had a nice 43.00 pay 2 nights ago..as long as they kick those out I'll still play there.
Last night at Lone Star had a horse go off at 3-2 finished at 4-1..someone hammered the wrong horse..helped my bottom line. Guess it goes both ways.

As for the machines letting you wager after the race has begun...like to see that. Damn things are usually locking me out. Maybe someone is pulling your leg. If not I would be standing by that maching all night long.

there are a lot of Pen races where you just have to shake your head and let them have it.

I agree with you Tom, that cheating can occur any where and nothing we can do about. But I am concerned about the tracks management. It bothers me that it went on so long and it took a DA investigation to stop it. Management should have a vested interest in fair play and they should be always on the lookout for race fixing. When you see tracks banning trainers and/or jockeys even when they won't say why, I feel at least they are looking after their business, just like when GP pulled the plug on the N. Dakota guy.

Two years ago I sent Penn Nat a e-mail about races that looked very suspicious, it was a nice e-mail no sour grapes or nasty comments (the only track I ever complained to). They wouldn't even reply to my message. When the payouts are ugly and you get the feeling that the track management just doesn't care as long as they get their cut then I'll wager somewhere else.

[Tom]

I agree. Tracks need to let the public that they are looking out for the integety of the sport-no one is going to complain if a few races each week are investigated.
To the credit of Finger Lakes, they did take action a couple of times at least.
Mike McCarthy, a well known rider on the East Coat
turned in a very od lookiing ride at FL a few years ago.
Everyone who saw it shook their heads-there apeared to be no other explanation other than blatant stiff.
Whether or not there was a reason for theat ride I dont know, but MM has not ridden here since (except for an occasional stakes ship-in and he is still roundly booed).
FL also banned the top trainer for race fixing-Mike Ferraro Sr. He only got back onto the track through the courts. FL is cheap but at least the had some stones
when it counted.
Remember Jose Amy-NYRA fic-boy who got handed a life time suspension? He is trying to get his license back at age 50 (or so). Lifetime means lifetime in my book-no way sould he be allowed back. He gave up his right to ride when he choose to steal money from us bettors. He is lucky he is not rotting in a jail cell somewhere, which is where he should be right now. There are few thing worse than a cheater-I say throw throw the book at every one of them-no sympathy ever-max them out in jail and ban them for life. They choose to cheat-let them live with it.
I would not bet Penn either if I did not find enough races where I can make good scores-but I still think about the cheating every race I look at there. The stain will never go away, but the bettors will.
That is the sad part.
Tom

[Rick Ransom]

My opinion:


Don't necessarily stop betting there. If you find out what their patterns of cheating are, you can make a ton of money. I did this in Northern California, so I know what I'm talking about. There is almost always a way to make money at the race track, but sometimes it's rather unconventional.! You have to realize that people are running this game. The horses don't really give a sh**!

[John]

Any one play Suffolk Downs in Boston.

I bet a horse [ lone speed ] going in to the gate 9/5. down the back stretch 2-1 at the wire 5/2

Now I write down all the odds Two Minutes before the race. No odds went down after the race except one by a 1/2 point [ 9/2 - 4-1 ].

If some one plays that track Please tell me what's going on.....Thanks