Super slim pickins

[takeout]

Yesterday's 3rd race super at CT paid off on all-all-all. A winning super ticket was worth a whopping $11.40. This one could start another value discussion because the winner, the morning line program fav, paid $16.:D

[freeneasy]

I wonder if something like this can happen at tracks outside the U.S.? how many horses went postward ? had to be at least 8 for a super. Just more proof positive that the track is not concernd nor could it even be concerend to bother itself with whats going to be fair to the betting public. Were just the the suckers and slobs that make this game possible, while the track sings their daily fight song " Kiss my ass and I"ll be true to you "
Well you own the track and it seems you own my ass as well, so tell me something I dont know

[takeout]

It was a full field of ten and there's nothing suspect about the payoff. Actually that's the fair and correct way to do it. If anyone had gotten the first two finishers in the correct order they would've taken the whole pool, which in this case was only $2,685. It's just a product of small pools and several exotic bets in the same race. The trifecta & exacta pools are both larger and both were hit.

All four races that had superfecta betting on Sunday paid off on some variation of "all".

3rd 10-all-all-all
5th 7-6-3-all
8th 1-3-7-all
10th 5-2-all-all
& 5-9-all-all (dead heat for 2nd & 3rd)

The good news is you've got a shot to take the whole pool. (There were 58 winning tickets on the exacta in the 3rd race.) The bad news is that the largest super pool of the day barely topped 5K *before* take.

[ranchwest]

Long story short:

A friend of mine once hit a 2/5 horse keyed on a P3 with all-5-all twice plus all-5-3/4 twice, cost $440. It paid $1600, four times.

[freeneasy]

wait a minute what did I miss here, had to be something.

ok, horse wins and pays $16 and with the next 3 finishers paid $11.40 on a superfecta, and this in a 10 horse field, what? was the 2,3,and 4 horses 2/5, 3/5, and 4/5 ? I mean theres something here that just dont fit in. A super that pays less then the winner. I mean how can a super stand up at 9-2 with a 7-1 winner. And if a fix was in it still dont make any sense. If you fix two horses the combination for the other two spots is going to cost 6-10 bucks minimum, and all that to get back maybe 25 cents on the dollar. Couldnt be everybody and there brother was betting a superfecta down to a 9-2 payoff with a 16 dollar horse on top.

I missed it

[Derek2U]

my only gripe with you WhinerS is this: who cares bout your
moans & groans unless its about cheating and payoff issues.
Like cheating vets/trainers or about taking money from your
pants like a large takeout etc. Now thats stuff to really worry
about. I'm pleased cause NY tracks reduced their takeout and
it DOes matter big time. hehe other than that stuff if racing stays
on the right path & protects us bettors from cheats, who cares
what else really matters .. go get that dish, DownLoad, analyse,
watch, bet, keep records, re-think, etc etc thats the fun isnt it?

[freeneasy]

and if someone says "hey, stranger things have happened" post it man cause Iam laughin so hard right now, I gotta hear it. no, wait, yeah, here ya go, I got it, post a new thread and tell about the stranges thing that ever happened to you, or that you ever seen at the track

[ranchwest]

Hey, my former home track was Delta Downs. If I told you the things that went on there, you'd think I was a liar and you'd want to send me to the looney bin.

[superfecta]

Originally posted by freeneasy
and if someone says "hey, stranger things have happened" post it man cause Iam laughin so hard right now, I gotta hear it. no, wait, yeah, here ya go, I got it, post a new thread and tell about the stranges thing that ever happened to you, or that you ever seen at the track How about this-i bet a trifecta at Penn. Nat one nite,bet it straight cause it was a lock,only for 2 bucks cause ya never know...anyway,My horses come in ,in order.Pays off for 5-2-all.I was there with the right horses and i'm sharing the pot with guys that had only the first two right.They're laughing with relief,I'm standing there in disbelief.Never found out why.

[freeneasy]

oh man I love it ranch, cant get enough,

ranch, dude, check this out,.. who was there at Hollywood Park the day when this hugh shaker hit !?!?! oh man it was like everybody was doin whateverall everything everybody was doin, typical blue collar day at the track, walkin, talkin, millin about, starin into space, forms , trash, tickets, loud talkin, your normal habitat for the track of your choice, when it just went like a giant KABOOM Man Iam tellin ya, that Iam here to tell ya that it just felt like the whole track just DROPPED 2 inches in a blink, the whole track just did one hugh shake. I mean I dont know how else to describe it, you had to be there. It was like standing in an elevator 2 inches above the floor and out of nowhere you hear this sonic boom, and the whole bottom just drops down and BANGO, your first thought is , head for the infield cause this baby is a commin down, and I dont mean tomarrow. And the funny thing was was that the whole track kinda stopped everything it was doing for a few moments, waited to see if there was going to be one more, and after maybe 10-12 seconds, it was like everyone went naaaaa, not gonna happen and went on about their freaking bussiness like, hey man, if I thought the track was going fall down, Id be outta here, like, hey, were from California and well, been there done that before. you had to be there.

[takeout]

Originally posted by freeneasy
wait a minute what did I miss here, had to be something.

ok, horse wins and pays $16 and with the next 3 finishers paid $11.40 on a superfecta, and this in a 10 horse field, what?
It paid $11.40 because no one had a winning ticket with all 4 on it. When that happens they pay off to the folks that had the most horses in the correct order. In this case they had to go all the way back up to the top horse to be able to return the 75% of the pool to the crowd. So, all you had to do was have the top horse in the right place on your super ticket and you got paid. That's why it only paid $11.40, because they had to pay it out to so many people. I just posted about it because you don't see an "all-all-all" very often and, how often do you see a win payoff that's larger than a super payoff in the same race? There was nothing underhanded about it though.

[takeout]

Originally posted by superfecta
Pays off for 5-2-all.I was there with the right horses and i'm sharing the pot with guys that had only the first two right.
Now that IS strange. Are you sure you didn't spend too much time at the bar that day? ;)

If you're right about that, I'm wondering if you shouldn't have maybe taken the whole pool. That would've been a good lick for two bucks even with Penn's obscene 30% takeout. I think I would've definitely had to have a talk with the head of pari-mutuels about that one.

[freeneasy]

ok takeout , now iknow if you dont get the 3rd horse in a tri they pay whoever has the first two finishers, but if you would have pressed all, all, all with the winner you would have got the pot, but I think your saying they only paid the winner cause no one even had the 1-2 finishers. geez I feel like Iam in a black hole
sorry takeout I cant stop laughin at it all, Ilove it

[freeneasy]

ohh no, not you too super now Iam totally lost , geez

[takeout]

Originally posted by freeneasy
but I think your saying they only paid the winner cause no one even had the 1-2 finishers.
Exactly. In this case it was the equivalent of not even hitting the exacta. (That's why I mentioned that there were 58 winning exacta tickets in the same race. Seemed kind of ironic. Indeed, there were 5 winning trifecta tickets in that race.)

You usually only see this kind of thing where the pools are small but I think it's happening more at some of the larger tracks now because their pools are so cut up from having so many exotic bets in the same race.

No need to press all-all-all with the winner to get the pot. In this case just pressing all in the second hole and singling anything in the 3rd & 4th holes while buying only $1 tickets would have done the trick for $7. OTOH, who would've made such a play? In this case, no one.

Stuff like that does occasionally happen though. Talked with a guy years ago that singled the first 3 holes in the super and went "all" in the 4th hole for $1 tickets - a $7 bet. Then he said he got to liking his play (? no idea why) and decided to make the same bet again. Turned out that he didn't need to spend the second $7 because he was the only one that hit it. It paid 12K. I guess every now and then the racing gods decide to cut us a break regardless of whether it's a "good bet" or "bad bet" or whatever. I once hit a super for $3,600 that I bought only one $2 ticket on. (Well, at least I was keeping my outlay down.:D) Pure luck. I'd already lost the two real bets that I'd gone up there for. I had $4 left in my pocket, bet $2 on the super on the way out of the door and saved $2 for coffee on the way home. I watched the race from the parking lot. As it turned out, I didn't need the coffee.:)

[freeneasy]

damn takeout thats a hell of a nice hit for a "last dash for cash" with only 4 bucks in ypur pocket and on your way out for the door for a cup of black beans and hot water. Ilove it man, I just love it. I can see it now, ol Takeout "sprinting" back into the track, goin nose n nose with some kind of accute sense delirium. yeah and tell me take, did it feel like it took 10 minutes to cover the parking lot and get to the window cause you couldnt get there fast enough and at the same time when you finally get to the window it was like the trip accross the parking lot and back into the track didnt even take place? and oh yeah do you happen to remember who it was that got to the window first your body or your mind. musta been one hell of a photo.

[takeout]

Actually I didn't cash it in that night. (How lazy is that!) Just tucked it away and drove home with a stupid grin on my face.

[takeout]

Originally posted by ranchwest
Long story short:

A friend of mine once hit a 2/5 horse keyed on a P3 with all-5-all twice plus all-5-3/4 twice, cost $440. It paid $1600, four times.
Nice hit!

Every time I try something like that, my key horse decides to take the day off! :eek:

[ranchwest]

Originally posted by takeout

Nice hit!

Every time I try something like that, my key horse decides to take the day off! :eek:

I left out the part about it being Easy Goer going against 3 yo's about 2 weeks after having won against 3UP. Barring a freak accident, he wasn't going to lose.

[superfecta]

Originally posted by takeout

Now that IS strange. Are you sure you didn't spend too much time at the bar that day? ;)

If you're right about that, I'm wondering if you shouldn't have maybe taken the whole pool. That would've been a good lick for two bucks even with Penn's obscene 30% takeout. I think I would've definitely had to have a talk with the head of pari-mutuels about that one. Wasn't drinking or on anything,unless it was in the air:D There were other guys wondering the same thing,one had a $20 ticket.And they were the favorites as well.Only thing I could think of was a malfunction in the tri pool and my bet and others like it weren't taken.Who knows?

[freeneasy]

years back I played a pk6 with 5 singles and 2horses in the last leg, swepped it, I mean just about everything I played won going away. So I pull out my ticket and check the numbers. All the right numders where there but something wasnt right. And when I figured it out what happened was the numders werent in the right order. I have a very simple form of deslexia and the horse I liked in the 3rd leg, I put his number in the 4th leg, and the horse I liked in the 4th leg, I put his number in the 3rd leg. fer cryin out loud. paid over $11,000. I went home and committed suicide by hanging or was it hari-kari, no come to think of it Iam pretty sure I put my eyes out with a hot poker. I had some weird dreams after that, you know like being eaten by worms and things that dont exsist.

Last sunday did something similar. Hit a small pk 4 and when I checked my ticket I had punched in the wrong # and left out the winner whom I thought I had played. Iam just glad the payoff was $88.00 and not $8,800 or they be pulling tequila soaked body out of the ocean by now.

[takeout]

Originally posted by ranchwest
I left out the part about it being Easy Goer going against 3 yo's about 2 weeks after having won against 3UP. Barring a freak accident, he wasn't going to lose.
Judging from the payoff he sure picked the right time to go for it. I would've probably passed, thinking that there wasn't a dime in the thing.

Always loved that betting example in the Davidowitz book about Secretariat's Belmont. Who would've thought that a return of almost 5-1 was possible in a field of only 5 horses with a 1-10 favorite winning?

Hmm... In light of examples like these, I may have to reconsider my position on whether it's possible to squeeze blood out of a turnip. :D

[ranchwest]

The Easy Goer race was bookended by a couple of turf races, one very wide open. He caught a 25-1 in the 7th race and in the 9th about a 7-2. He figured the public would do poorly in the turf races. If I would have played one more horse in the 7th, I would have had it, but take could've, should've and would've and 50 cents and you can buy yourself a doughnut.

[takeout]

Originally posted by superfecta
Only thing I could think of was a malfunction in the tri pool and my bet and others like it weren't taken.Who knows?
That's one for the books, super. Very strange.

One time when I punched my own ticket the machine overcharged me a good bit. I looked at that thing about 6 times to make sure that it wasn't something that I had done. Finally I took it to a teller, cashed it, and he punched it out again and refunded me the difference. He said that it was also the first time that he had ever seen that. I guess a computer must've hiccuped somewhere. :confused:

[takeout]

freeneasy,

Ouch! That has got to hurt. I've done similar things but not to those proportions - yet. A friend recently messed up while punching his own tickets and left out a horse that he meant to play in a tri. He was playing a bunch of combos, various part wheel tickets and such, and didn't realize until after it came in and paid $1,600 that he didn't have it. It was a real lose-lose for him because he had gone after the thing pretty aggressively. :(

ranchwest,

That still seems like a mighty good payoff for only having one real longshot in there. I guess just very few people had the longshot. Must've been part of that phenom where everyone has the fav but hardly anyone has the long one. I used to notice it occasionally in quinellas that had a real longshot in them. Even with the chalk in there, sometimes as low as 4-5, the Q would still pay a lot.

[cj]

Originally posted by takeout

ranchwest,

That still seems like a mighty good payoff for only having one real longshot in there. I guess just very few people had the longshot...

The Pick 3 had to be in its infancy back then, I didn't even think NYRA had Pick 3's that long ago, perhaps it was in a separate track pool?

CJ

[ranchwest]

Originally posted by cjmilkowski


The Pick 3 had to be in its infancy back then, I didn't even think NYRA had Pick 3's that long ago, perhaps it was in a separate track pool?

CJ

I've been trying to recall that very thing. I'm thinking that this was through FG and they labelled the race (Saratoga maybe?) as their race 8. I remember so much about those races, but this I cannot recall. I remember that I liked the winner in race 9 because it had once run against Yankee Affair and R9 was I believe a $19K allowance. The R9 winner had shipped all over the place. If anyone has access to information back then, the winners were 1-5-4.

I hope my wife doesn't read this. Sometimes I don't remember it is trash day. lol

[freeneasy]

remember when Its In the Air ran in some big race and the Phantom Plunger (remember him) bet like 50 zillion dollars on him to place and show but mostly to show and IITA ran out of the money? the phantom lost his butt and the place and show prices on the pay horses where something like $10win, $18pl and $29 to show, or something astronomical like that. i bet every body who thought to themselfs, hmmm, what if, and put some money on the other horses were thanking the Plunger all the way tto the tellers window. Ithink it was a 5 horse field.

[Zaf]

Originally posted by takeout
Yesterday's 3rd race super at CT paid off on all-all-all. A winning super ticket was worth a whopping $11.40. This one could start another value discussion because the winner, the morning line program fav, paid $16.:D

This Bull Ring should not have Superfecta wagering. There's not enough money in the pools for all these exotics. Even if you take the whole pool your not gonna get a bonanza. Odds are if you make a great call on the Super, you will get short changed because of lack of money in the pool and the high takeout.

ZAFONIC

[takeout]

I agree. If there's only 3K in the pool, then you can have 4 longshots in the super and you're still only going to get 3K. I don't think bull rings have the market cornered on pools that are way too cut up because of too many exotics though. It seems to be almost everywhere you look.

[ranchwest]

It's parimutuel, it works both ways. Some days you'll have only the first horse and win the entire pool.

[takeout]

Since the pari-mutuel door swings both ways, is it easier to keep ones head above water in the smaller pools with less competition or in the larger ones with more but also more to go around? Or, is it a toss up?

[Zaf]

Originally posted by takeout
Since the pari-mutuel door swings both ways, is it easier to keep ones head above water in the smaller pools with less competition or in the larger ones with more but also more to go around? Or, is it a toss up?

For me. TOSS UP. I seem to do about the same when I bet into large pools (BEL,HOL) or when I bet smaller tracks (PENN, EVD, RKM).

For me the size of the pool or quality of horses does not have a bearing on my results. Its a tough game where ever you play !

ZAFONIC

[Dave Mark]

I am sure everyone of us could come up with a strange but true incident, race, bet, etc.

My two cents was in the 80,s at Delaware Park, when their races were much cheaper caliber, and crowds were small.

How about a Daily Double with no one having the second half.

This happened more than once.
Incidentally, the first horse was a long, long shot both times I remember, and what really got me was the second part(second Half) was a pretty low odds horse.

But, like I said, we all can come up with a strange but true happening.

[takeout]

At one time or another I've seen exacta, double and even quinella pools with no winning tickets on them. Granted, you don't see it very often but it does happen with the small pools. Do you remember how they paid that double out at Del? Did they just pay out on the winner of the first leg and "all" or did they do that insane thing where they pay it out both ways like winner-"all" and "all"-winner? I think that's the most bizarre (not to mention unfair) thing that I've ever seen.

[Zaf]

This happened at Dresden Raceway, a small Harness Track in Western Ontario.

On June 17, 2001 , The oddity of the day was the 10th race when FLUID DRIVE slid up the rail for top prize at 999-1. When the mutuel payoffs hit the board there was no money to win, place or show on the six year old Dexter Nukes gelding. Second place finisher LOOK PAL paid on the win, place and show tickets. Senoir ORC judge Lawrence Geisel said he couldn't recall that ever happening in Ontario. The live handle was $40,343.

1- Fluid Drive 0.00 0.00 0.00
8- Look Pal 8.20 5.80 3.90
3- Howdy Folks 6.30

Exactor (1-8) 202.30
Triactor (1-8-3) 2827.30

ZAFONIC

[takeout]

Wow! Amazing that someone didn't have $2 on him. And just as amazing to me is that the Exactor and Triactor were both hit! I guess the "crowd" really does prefer the exotics. :D

[Zaf]

Originally posted by takeout
Wow! Amazing that someone didn't have $2 on him. And just as amazing to me is that the Exactor and Triactor were both hit! I guess the "crowd" really does prefer the exotics. :D

Thats what blew me away, I couldn't believe that the exacta and Tri were hit. I have the past performances for the race. He didn't look that horrible. He was 0-11 in 2000-2001 going into that race but in his last 3 starts he was 4th by 2 1/2 lengths at the half (in contention) in all three races. Two back he finished 3rd beaten by only 2 lengths in a lower class. Three back 4th beaten only 3 lengths. He was running O.K. , at least in contention at some point in his last 5 starts !!!

The fact that he drew the rail on this day and a $2 win bet takes the whole win pool should of been enough to entice one hard core degenerate to make the wager. I wish I was holding the only $2 WPS ticket.

That was the 10th race on a $41 K handle day. There probably weren't many people left in the place at that point, and those who were still there were probably trying to get out on an exotic. Somebody did with a $2800 tri.

ZAFONIC

[Derek2U]

The Fluid Drive story is amazing. Even the word "amazing" is
an understatement. In other words, if someone had $2.00
to Win, they would have gotten the WHOLE Win pool? Surely
that would have been a Record .... having to show your SS# to
the teller to cash your $2 Ticket ..heh heh. What's perplexing
is that Fluid's pp's were okay & his name is fine ... and so that
proves that in any event the statistically improbable may occur.

[takeout]

Originally posted by Derek2U
In other words, if someone had $2.00
to Win, they would have gotten the WHOLE Win pool?
It has happened...

I used to like having the The American Racing Manual around to refer to but finally became irritated with DRF's constant price hiking and quit buying them in 1990. The last one I have has the record $2 win payoff of $2,922 for the horse Power to Geaux at Ak-Sar-Ben, December 8, 1989.

"Ak-Sar-Ben was conducting separate-pool simulcast wagering on the complete card from the New Orleans track. At the Fair Grounds, Power to Geaux returned $96.60 to win, but at Ak-Sar-Ben, one ticket took the entire win pool on the race."