Human Element

[Arts and Letters]

Hello to you all. I am new to this site and have read with interest your postings here. I'm just wondering if there more of you folks here who handicap primarily with the connections in mind ala' Jeff Goldstein, Ed Bain etc..? I finally started making money in this game when I payed more attention to the habits of the trainer rather than handicapping the horse. I know many of you might not agree with this style, but in my case betting certain trainers with their go to jock up, in the right circumstance has paid great dividends. Great site you guys have here, it's my pleasure to be part of it.

[JustRalph]

but in my case betting certain trainers with their go to jock up, in the right circumstance has paid great dividends. Great site you guys have here, it's my pleasure to be part of it.

and you have missed some tremendous longshots..............

Up and coming journeymen trainers.......or young promising types you must be passing over. They don't score real often, but when they do, big time money. I guess we are talking about two opposite ends of the spectrum. I think your end might be a little more boring???

[JimG]

Hello to you all. I am new to this site and have read with interest your postings here. I'm just wondering if there more of you folks here who handicap primarily with the connections in mind ala' Jeff Goldstein, Ed Bain etc..? I finally started making money in this game when I payed more attention to the habits of the trainer rather than handicapping the horse. I know many of you might not agree with this style, but in my case betting certain trainers with their go to jock up, in the right circumstance has paid great dividends. Great site you guys have here, it's my pleasure to be part of it.

Welcome to the board! Arts and Letters was a terrific horse. 2 books to recommend to you if you have not read: Steve Collison's "The Claiming Game" and John Whitaker's "Handicapping Trainers". Both have good information for those interested in the people side of the game.

Jim

[kenwoodallpromos]

An Ed Bain thread recently on this forum.
As long as you know how much weight to give to your angle in a certain race!
Do you follow a barn as to which horses the trainer has to chose from in a certain race?
For example I'm thinking if the trainer has 5 horses that are ready to race and qualify under the race conditions, maybe he or she enters a horse that needs a race and the next day enters the same type and purse of race with a horse that is better and more hot?
Do you follow trainers to see if they are waiting until the better competition has run and later throw his horse in a race?

[cnollfan]

I am a fan of Arts and Letters too. Also Ack Ack a couple of years later.

For someone who hasn't read any Goldstein, which of his books is your favorite?

[Arts and Letters]

I have read Steve Collisons' book. Thought it was excellent. I will pick up a copy of the other if I come across it. Thanks.
Also, a great read from Jeff Goldstein is "Krazy Koncepts". It has a lot of ideas that are outside the box of typical handicapping.

[BIG49010]

Anyone know where you can get a copy of Jeff Goldstein's Krazy Koncepts?

I checked web nothing but posts on here came up?

Thanks

[cnollfan]

RPM Info Systems used to advertise Krazy Koncepts, but I just called them and they said it is out of print and they don't have any more copies.

[JimG]

Anyone know where you can get a copy of Jeff Goldstein's Krazy Koncepts?

I checked web nothing but posts on here came up?

Thanks

You may want to check Amazon from time to time. They sell used books as well as new. There are none listed right now but there is a page for that title.

Jim

[DJofSD]

Looking for a used copy? Try Powell's in Portland, Oregon, the king of used book stores! (http://www.powells.com/)

[Arts and Letters]

and you have missed some tremendous longshots..............

Up and coming journeymen trainers.......or young promising types you must be passing over. They don't score real often, but when they do, big time money. I guess we are talking about two opposite ends of the spectrum. I think your emight be a little more boringnd ???

Longshots are something I do not miss. One of the best gems I have read was from Mark Cramer and went something like: When playing an angle ignore all aspects of conventional handicapping. I was paraphrasing there. Case in point: last week at Turf Paradise, Troy Bainum, first off a claim. Had just claimed Raging Wind for 20k. Scratched the horse out of one spot and entered it in a handicap with no public workouts showing since the claim. Was 20-1 morning line but had Jorge Carreno up who obviously wasn't there just for the exercise. Was rewarded with a 38-1 mutual which was missed by most "conventional" handicappers out there. I have my "stable" of trainer moves that I like to play and do not let the odds scare me off. Don't get me wrong, I get my share of losing tickets, but overall do quite well because of the homework I do.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Do you ever play more than 1 longshot in a race?

[RaceIsClosed]

Hello to you all. I am new to this site and have read with interest your postings here. I'm just wondering if there more of you folks here who handicap primarily with the connections in mind ala' Jeff Goldstein, Ed Bain etc..? I finally started making money in this game when I payed more attention to the habits of the trainer rather than handicapping the horse. I know many of you might not agree with this style, but in my case betting certain trainers with their go to jock up, in the right circumstance has paid great dividends. Great site you guys have here, it's my pleasure to be part of it.

I view the horses as tools of the trainer (and owner in some cases). It only makes sense to adopt that viewpoint. However, a lot of what the trainer does is dictated by what the horse can do, so they are both parts of the equation.

[oddswizard]

Have discussed this problem with 2 hall of fame jockeys. Both stated when looking on handicapping a race it is 80% horse, 10% trainer & 10% Jockey. The great jockeys keep horses out of trouble. Trainers put them in races they can win, but the horse has to be ready & is by far them most important piece of the puzzle.

[edwarren]

So, you feel leaving the track with folding money is boring.

I know, you didn't say that.

[BIG49010]

Thanks to some very nice people on this site, I was sent free of charge Krazy Koncepts.


The power of the internet!!

[Tom]

Thanks to some very nice people on this site, I was sent free of charge Krazy Koncepts.


The power of the internet!!

Uh oh!
You'll probably get 12 invoices now that you said that! :D