Blinkers Off

[xfile]

The TVG Friday show. To listen to Matt Carrothers makes my ears bleed. To look at Mike Watchmaker makes my eyes bleed....lol....but I tune in every Friday :D

[the little guy]

Dan Illman is doing it instead of Watch this week....I think.

[xfile]

Dan Illman is doing it instead of Watch this week....I think.

Nope...I'm staring at Watch's butugly face as I type this :D

[the little guy]

Oh...I guess it's next week.

Sorry to get your hopes up.

[midnight]

Why would anybody actually look at the screen in the first place? I'm interested in listening to what they have to say. They can sit there naked under wreaths of mistletoe with "Kiss me, I'm horny!" signs around their necks, for all I care.

Listening to them is a chore, too. With a little imagination, I could pretend it's Popeye and Bluto talking.

[GaryG]

No Midnight, more like Beavis and Butthead. In fact Matt looks a lot like Beavis...

[xfile]

Why would anybody actually look at the screen in the first place? I'm interested in listening to what they have to say. They can sit there naked under wreaths of mistletoe with "Kiss me, I'm horny!" signs around their necks, for all I care.

Listening to them is a chore, too. With a little imagination, I could pretend it's Popeye and Bluto talking.

They talked about "stewards" today...could they possibly find a more boring topic???? :D

[Snow Chief]

What is that guy Matt Carrothers' background? He is one of the most irritating people in all of television. Dare I say that Mike Battaglia is a pleasure to listen compared to him.

[PaceAdvantage]

Wow, tough audience....:lol:

[JustRalph]

What is that guy Matt Carrothers' background? He is one of the most irritating people in all of television. Dare I say that Mike Battaglia is a pleasure to listen compared to him.

Wow! Slapping Matt down pretty hard................:lol:

[Vegas711]

What is that guy Matt Carrothers' background? He is one of the most irritating people in all of television. Dare I say that Mike Battaglia is a pleasure to listen compared to him.

Matt, began as an employee at canterbury in the info booth,( where are the restrooms etc. ) then he moved up to cby handicapper in the paddock. His Dad is very wealthy, he is a good friend of canterburys owner.

It is not what you know, but who you know.

[Bruddah]

It seems, in the broad spectrum of the Gaming business, this old adage applies on a daily basis. It's not what you know but who you (_low.) At least that's the way the whole TVG thing appears to me. :D :D

[Overlay]

It's not what you know but who you (_low.)

A slightly cleaned-up version of that that I heard was that it's not what you know but who you 'nose.

[PaceAdvantage]

That's life baby....networking is king.

[Tom]

This Thursday, I will give thanks for my "mute" button whenever I watch TVG.
I play audio tapes of Jimmy Swaggert over the video feed and it is MUCH easier to listen to! :lol:

[DrugSalvastore]

That's life baby....networking is king.

I'm screwed

[midnight]

Tune in Tuesday mornings to Rich Perloff, if you want to hear somebody who actually knows what he's talking about.

[xfile]

As long as I have the TVG-Bashing-Band-Wagon rolling...let's talk about Simon Bray. While he "verify's" things he should verify the definition of the words overlay and longshot. There was a $38.00 winner at CDX named City Rapid. When recapping the day's events and explaining why there was a pick 6 carryover, Simon mentioned something about this longshot = "An astute handicapper would have never picked this horse"..or words very close to that. Now - I cash in on $38 horses and much higher every week. Geez - I thought I was an "astute" handicapper. While "Google-ing" Simon Bray this a.m. I had the fortune of stumbling upon a pic of Simon when he was 11-years old. I do believe this moment put a permanent scar on his brain:
http://www.robbscelebs.co.uk/noops095/elvira_cassandra_peterson131.jpg

[Loserdave]

I wonder what Blinker's Off would be like with Elvira instead of Mike Watchmaker. I always like watching Blinker's Off, because their picks do so bad that I consider them throwouts. They surprised me this week by nailing Sundrop.
Simon should stick to training. He doesn't have a TV personality. My favorite on TVG is Frank Lyons. When he comes out and says he really likes a horse, it usually runs well. And if not I like listening to his accent.
The comment about astute handicappers not hitting City Rapids blows me away. I seriously considered City Rapids. He was dropping in class and switching to a trainer who was 2 of 6 when a horse was switched to him. I singled Snow Shot, but City Rapids waking up was not a complete surprise to me. But perhaps, I'm not an astute handicapper.

[xfile]

I wonder what Blinker's Off would be like with Elvira instead of Mike Watchmaker. I always like watching Blinker's Off, because their picks do so bad that I consider them throwouts. They surprised me this week by nailing Sundrop.
Simon should stick to training. He doesn't have a TV personality. My favorite on TVG is Frank Lyons. When he comes out and says he really likes a horse, it usually runs well. And if not I like listening to his accent.
The comment about astute handicappers not hitting City Rapids blows me away. I seriously considered City Rapids. He was dropping in class and switching to a trainer who was 2 of 6 when a horse was switched to him. I singled Snow Shot, but City Rapids waking up was not a complete surprise to me. But perhaps, I'm not an astute handicapper.

My favorite Frank Lyons quote = "I'm as confused as a baby in a topless bar" :lol: :lol: :lol: :D :D :D

[the little guy]

Did Simon Bray actually say that an astute handicapper would never have a horse like that? If he did that is shameful and he should offer a public apology. The ignorance a remark like that shows is remarkable and how TVG could even tolerate that is surprising.

[xfile]

Did Simon Bray actually say that an astute handicapper would never have a horse like that? If he did that is shameful and he should offer a public apology. The ignorance a remark like that shows is remarkable and how TVG could even tolerate that is surprising.

Yes Simon Bray said that exactly. That statement just screams that he really knows nothing about this part of the game. He may know how to groom a horse or perhaps even train, but handicapping = nope. But then again he fits right in with the rest of them there. With the exception of Frank Lyons of course. Frank's the only real deal on there. HRTV, however, has a heck of a lineup of REAL handicappers. Too bad they don't broadcast New York or Kentucky. They do have Gulfstream though. Always a welcome break in the year. :cool:

[Vegas711]

Frank only picks favorites, He is SOOOOOOOOOO BOOOOOOOOOOOring.

TVG is not designed for educated viewers, just for beginners who know NOTHING about handicapping.

[Snow Chief]

if Simon Bray was a good trainer he'd still be training. Remember he had Cigar and could only win a MSW with him. Frank's ok, but if i hear him say that "people who think Dutrow dopes horses are morons" again, i'll puke

[PaceAdvantage]

if Simon Bray was a good trainer he'd still be training.

That's an interesting perspective. How about the always handy alternate explanation -- he had to get out of the training game because he couldn't compete with all the "dopers" and "cheaters" out there....

You hear that kind of excuse a lot on this board...I'm surprised only CERTAIN trainers who have opted out of the game are afforded that excuse, while others, like Bray, are labled incompetent....LOL

For the record, didn't Bill Mott start to go downhill once Bray left camp? Or was it the fault of "drugs" and "cheats" that paved the way for Mott's fall from grace a number of years ago? Oh, I forgot, it must have been the drugs, since Mott has recently started winning again since the "cheater" crackdown began in earnest.....:rolleyes:

[kingfin66]

Frank only picks favorites, He is SOOOOOOOOOO BOOOOOOOOOOOring.

TVG is not designed for educated viewers, just for beginners who know NOTHING about handicapping.

I don't think this is true. He will pick a short priced horse if he feels it is a standout. I have seen him catch some really nice priced horses live. One time, he nailed a first time turf horse by the name of Scrofa at huge odds. Scrofa has gone on to be a solid turf horse.

I personally don't like to beat up on the TVG guys like everybody else here. They have a difficult job in that they have to handicap and offer an opinion on every race, then have to go on the air and sound interesting talking about it. My only beef with TVG, and many others on PA agree, is that they feel the need to skip live races in lieu of just about anything else, but mainly their incessant talking.

[DrugSalvastore]

if Simon Bray was a good trainer he'd still be training. Remember he had Cigar and could only win a MSW with him. Frank's ok, but if i hear him say that "people who think Dutrow dopes horses are morons" again, i'll puke

First of all---Simon Bray did not win a MSW race with Cigar.

Cigar was originally trained by Alex Hassinger Jr. (the same guy who later trained Anees to a 2yo Championship.) Cigar was 2-for-9 under Hassinger.

Simon Bray was a top assistant to Bill Mott. He went on his own, on the West Coast, and put up very impressive numbers immediately. He looked headed for great things--Allen Paulson dropped dead--the strength of AP's stable went to his son Mike instead of his wife. The story is that Mike Paulson didn't care for Simon Bray, or his father's wife---and he had all of the horses in the Allen Paulson living trust transferred out of Bray's barn.

The move was unpopular, because Simon Bray won a Grade 1 race with Startac just days before he lost the AP Living Trust horses, which made Mike Paulson look like a complete asshole. Bray lost some very good horses in the move, including a filly named Azeri who was nearly race ready.

Bray never really recovered once he lost those horses---and a once promising looking training career, started to take a nose dive.

[DrugSalvastore]

Did Simon Bray actually say that an astute handicapper would never have a horse like that? If he did that is shameful and he should offer a public apology. The ignorance a remark like that shows is remarkable and how TVG could even tolerate that is surprising.

Simon Bray is a man of the people---right around the time his career started to take a nose dive, he participated in an AOL buddy list chat room discussion with me and a few other horse players (that alone probably caused his hair to fall out and his career to die)

Real nice guy though. I heard his comment Xfile is referring to. As I recall, a graphic showing the winning payout price of each horse in a Pick 6 that had carried over, was up on the screen--and Simon basically said something (IMO) harmless, regarding the winner of the 2nd leg, like 'that was the horse that most experienced handicappers wouldn't use.'

That's how I remember it anyway--but, I wasn't paying a great deal of attention, to remember with certainty what was said, word for word.

I do agree that Simon shouldn't be the type of guy TVG uses--but he's no worse than the majority of the on-air guys employed by TVG. Frankly, I would like to see someone like the poster I am quoting on-air at TVG.

If they can't go out and get knowledgeable, competent, and fairly opinionated on-air workers....why don't they just round up a collection of hot young babes in bikinis...and have them replace the current staff? They would be better off for it.

[the little guy]

The right way to say it is " that was a tough horse to have ". Period.

Every horse that wins every race at every track is bet on by people, and you know what, at least one of them is a good handicapper. Maybe not as good as you, or me, or maybe better than all of us. It doesn't really matter. To suggest that by somehow betting a horse, much less a winner, makes someone a poor handicapper, is an unforgivable on-air faux pas.

[DrugSalvastore]

The right way to say it is " that was a tough horse to have ". Period.

Every horse that wins every race at every track is bet on by people, and you know what, at least one of them is a good handicapper. Maybe not as good as you, or me, or maybe better than all of us. It doesn't really matter. To suggest that by somehow betting a horse, much less a winner, makes someone a poor handicapper, is an unforgivable on-air faux pas.

Which is why someone without a censor (like myself) doesn't really belong on networks like TVG or HRTV.

I remember a situation where the pick six paid over $3 million on Breeders Cup day '99. Andy Beyer called the people who cashed the winning ticket "amateurs."

He took a whole bunch of mess for saying it---but I have no problem with anyone saying anything like that. Here was the reply Beyer gave to the onslought of people who felt he made his comments out of sour grapes.

"My comment certainly sounds obnoxious but it is essentially correct. I talked to plenty of smart handicappers about the Breeders' Cup and I heard nobody express a positive opinion about Cat Thief. None of the analysts in the Racing Form gave him a mention. I know two players who invested $10,000+ in the pick six and neither used him on a ticket. Moreover, after the race, I did not even hear any cogent red-boarding about why Cat Thief should have been bet. Hey, I salute the guys who hit the pick six. And if they had a sound reason for using Cat Thief, I stand in awe."

[Snow Chief]

No question it is a tough game, and cheaters make it hard for true and honest horsemen. Another issue could be Bill Mott is pretty quiet guy. Have any other assistant's of his gone on to anything? I just don't see him really teaching his guys much, but I don't know.

Stand corrected on the Cigar thing. I do not have a racing manual near me, did Cigar then win a NX2 on the turf at Belmont with Mott? Was his original dirt win at the Big A a NX3?

[Fastracehorse]

But it is highly :)

fffastt

[xfile]

But it is highly :)

fffastt

Actually I started it with the intentions of entertainment...lol:D ...looks like a success:ThmbUp:

[Overlay]

Stand corrected on the Cigar thing. I do not have a racing manual near me, did Cigar then win a NX2 on the turf at Belmont with Mott? Was his original dirt win at the Big A a NX3?

Cigar's original dirt win at Aqueduct on 28 October 1994 was a N2X allowance race for a purse of $34,000. Mott had taken over as his trainer after 1993. Cigar raced four times on the turf for Mott in 1994. On 8 July, he finished fourth in a 1-1/16-mile N3X allowance at Belmont. On 8 August, he finished third in a 1-1/8 mile N3X allowance at Saratoga. On 16 September, he finished seventh in a one-mile N2X allowance at Belmont. Finally, on 7 October, he finished third in a 1-1/16 mile N3X allowance at Belmont. His winning streak started in his next race (the dirt race on 28 October 1994).

[Overlay]

I neglected to mention that the distance of the dirt win at Aqueduct on 28 October 1994 that started his streak was one mile. His Beyer in that race (104) was a twenty-five point improvement over the 79 from his previous turf effort three weeks earlier on 7 October.

[Snow Chief]

This is where i am confused, he won 2 races with Hassinger, one being a MSW, the other NX1 i presume. why was mott running him in NX3 if he was still eligble for a step down? Obviously, i am missing something here, put i do not have Cigar's pps in front of me

[Overlay]

I can't say offhand why Mott entered him in "non-winner of three other than" allowance races when it appears he was still eligible for non-winner-of-two races. (The allowance victory that started his winning streak was in a N2X race.) Perhaps his showings in late 1993 in the Grade 3 Ascot Handicap (where he finished third) and the Grade 3 Volante Handicap (where he finished second) fell under the later race conditions somehow. His only previous outright victories were his MSW win on 9 May 93 at Hollywood, and a $36,000 N$Y allowance race on 18 August 93 at Del Mar. His lifetime past performances are at the following link:

http://www.drf.com/hcponline/samples/269.pdf

[midnight]

The first race of Cigar's streak was in a NW2X race on the dirt. Prior to that, he was raced in both NW2X and NW3X turf races, probably because they were the only ones carded that were close to what he qualified for.

[DrugSalvastore]

The first race of Cigar's streak was in a NW2X race on the dirt.

That's correct---but it is worth noting that Cigar actually won 17 in a row on the dirt.

He broke his maiden going 6 furlongs over the Hollywood Park dirt as a 3yo, that day he earned a Beyer Figure almost equal to the winning Beyer figure Praire Bayou ran in the Preakness that same week.

For whatever reason---after that alarmingly impressive MSW win over the dirt, Cigar spent the next 18 months racing exclusively over the turf course.

This is a fact---that for whatever reason---a lot of people just don't seem to know.

I personally felt one of the greatest accomplishments in racing history is Spectacular Bid going 24-for-24 with 14 Grade 1 wins between the distances of 7 furlongs-through-1 1/4 miles. I didn't find out about that until I saw Bid's lifetime PP's and figured it out for myself. Shockingly, I had never heard anyone else make mention to that fact before---and I had read a lot of stuff about Spectacular Bid.

It's a great credit to our esteemed racing press---that everyone knows some bologna story about a safety pin, and everyone knows that the horse had a loudmouth trainer who liked to call him "the greatest horse to ever look through a bridal"---but if you want to find out that Spectacular Bid was 24-for-24 with 14 Grade 1 wins between 7f's through 10f's---you have to do it with your own research.

Spectacular Bid's female family was EXTREMELY sprint oriented. It's really hard to fault a horse for losing at 12 furlongs, when he has that kind of blood.

I've actually heard people claim Secretariet didn't have an ideal pedigree for 12 furlongs--he was from a very classy and stamina rich female family, and his sire (Bold Ruler) had a sibling who upset steeplechase champion Peal, in the 1961 Grand National at the distance of 3 miles! Bid's up-close female family consisted of fair-circuit sprinters..who perferred five furlongs. His sire is a son of Bold Ruler.

The last time I gave a rant about this stuff--another poster actually claimed he needed an anxiety pill after reading it. On the old message board some would mock me and call me "rain man"--I just think serious fans of horse racing should have a right to know this stuff--without having to research everything on their own time. If I wanted to research info I couldn't profit off of--I would go to college! If I wasn't cursed with insomnia, I'd only have time to worry about horses who are racing right now.

The NTRA should produce a website that gives painfully detailed and specific info on every quality horse to ever race in America. Lifetime form, in depth pedigree report, and all existing video clips of important races need to be available on this site. PLUS, every basic and exotic record you can think of must be on this site.

I know the '86 foal crop that Easy Goer and Sunday Silence came out of was the largest ever, I know that Inside Information is the only horse to ever win three or more Grade 1 races by double digit lengths, but I don't know which horse holds the North American record for most consecutive times claimed. I would like to though! The NTRA really needs to produce something like this, they are foolish if they don't.

[dutzman]

DrugS-

Keep comin' with your info, posts are very interesting to read...thats a hell of a fact on the Bid!!