Pinny's 4% New York rebate

[Valuist]

For those of you that bet thru Pinnacle, has the lower rebate affected your wagering? Will you play other circuits instead where you can get the full 7%?

For me, I haven't changed much....yet. But I'm not a big fan of the inner dirt and this is enough to make me pass on the inner dirt meet. This Saturday, the card looks pretty weak at Aqueduct, loaded w/2 YO Maiden races. Laurel has had some solid cards and may be a good substitute this winter.

[Memogram]

I am betting a less on NYC racing so far, partly because of the less rebate.

[classhandicapper]

I've backed off on some low ROI bets I was experimenting with in NY trying to profit via the rebate only. I am now looking at making those bets CA and CD instead. CD has a lot of large fields, possibly slightly less sophisticated competition, and the 7%. CA has the 7% rebate, a slightly lower take, but the fields are so darn short at this meet it's silly.

[dancingbrave]

Pinnacle is a good product but if value is your number one concern then the 5% pool betting at tradehorseracing.com is the best value mathematically.

Expectation at Pinnacle for say NY track is 0.91 and actually a little lower because of dime breakage.

At tradehorseracing it is 0.95 with no dime breakage better by 4.4% plus a little for dime breakage effect. I would still use Pinny for a lot of things but for the tracks tradehorseracing offers it is second to none.

[mauvais]

How much liquidity in these tradehorseracing.com pools generally Dancingbrave?

[trying2win]

I guess that the ideal situation for straight bet players would be to play a few tracks that offer the lowest takeout and breakage rates. Plus, try to obtain the highest rebate they can get.

Unfortunately, in my case, I've never done well at the major New York tracks in the past, despite having the lowest takeout and breakage rates in the U.S. Therefore, I generally don't play the New York tracks.

At the other extreme, it must be tough to beat tracks like Turf Paradise over the long run with their outrageous 20% takeout on straight bets, plus dime breakage. I used to play there, but not anymore.

Some tracks with lower takeout rates, might have a tendency to have the one-extreme-to-the-other type of winners most of the time ....i.e. hot favorites or left-field longshots (the ones that look so bad on form, you don't want to bet them). Those kind of tracks a lot of the time, seem to have winners that pay either 4.20 to win or 41.20 to win, with hardly any 10.00 to 20.00 winners in between. I generally don't like playing those kind of tracks.

The ideal kind of track I like to play is where the track takeout is at least middle-of-the-road, with not too many 5 or 6 horse fields, and pay a wide variety of win prices. Of course, it helps if the track is one where you've done well in the past.

That's my two cents worth on this topic. Anyone else got any thoughts?


Thanks,

T2W

[dancingbrave]

mauvais - there is over $100K available to bet per race every race.

[Hosshead]

Expectation at Pinnacle for say NY track is 0.91 and actually a little lower because of dime breakage.I thought NY had nickle breakage .

[classhandicapper]

Do you have to be a non-US citizen to bet at tradehorseracing?

Betfair looks good also, but I can't open an account.

[cj]

Do you have to be a non-US citizen to bet at tradehorseracing?

Betfair looks good also, but I can't open an account.

No, I had no problems signing up today, but I haven't funded my account yet. Doing some research first.

[Buddha]

I thought NY had nickle breakage .

technically they have dime breakage, but in the small amounts, maybe up to $10, it is nickle breakage. They have three actually breakages in their payouts. Low ones are nickle, mid are dime, and high is actually on the fifty cents.

[dancingbrave]

I was referring to tradehorseracing not using any breakages in their payout calculations.

[midnight]

Commercial's getting old........

For those few who don't know the difference, Betfair is a whole different situation than Tradehorses.

At Tradehorses, you're generally getting track odds, plus a percentage more. The only time it'd be less than track odds is if there was a lot of money bet on that entry that wasn't covered by the $100,000 that the liquidity providers added. I don't bet at Tradehorses, but I've watched some of the races, along with the actual tote pools at the respective tracks, and I have my own theory about the liquidity providers dumping large bets made by outsiders into the track pools, in order to keep from getting burnt. It's a theory, and obviously I don't know for sure.

At Betfair, bettors ask for or offer to lay a fixed price. If matched, that price is valid, regardless of whether the actual track odds go up or down.

[dancingbrave]

midnight - you have been watching the comparitive payouts as well then. isn't that all that we are all interested in? What the liquidity providers do is immaterial - as long as I get paid a lot better than track odds I don't give a damn.