Greatest Siblings

[DrugSalvastore]

I'm going to craft a list of what I believe to be the greatest sibling race horses of the last 75 years. I'll rate them and explain my thoughts about why I put them where I did. Please feel free to argue with the ratings, and PLEASE let me know if I missed anyone obvious.

Remember, in this sport siblings only come from the same mother (dam), having the same father (sire) doesn't make a sibling.

#1. DR. FAGER & TA WEE- This is as easy as it gets. Both are Hall Of Famer's and genuinely great horses. The filly Ta Wee won 15 of 21 lifetime starts and was named champion sprinter in '69 and '70. In her only loss in 4 stakes tries against the boys, she gave 20 pounds to the winner and finished 2nd. Finished her career at Belmont with a stakes win carrying 142lbs, 29 pounds more than the runner-up. Dr. Fager was Horse of the Year, champion older horse, champion turf horse, and champion sprinter all in the same year. Ran a mile in 1:32 1/5 under 134lbs. Finished his career with a 6 length win in the Vosburgh, running 7 furlongs in 1:20 1/5 under 139lbs.

#2. ESTRAPADE & CRIMINAL TYPE- The filly Estrapade was a champion grass horse who won 5 Grade 1's over the turf, including the Arlington Million by 5 lengths. Criminal Type was 1990 Horse of the Year after four Grade 1 wins, and wins over both Easy Goer and Sunday Silence

#3. A.P INDY & SUMMER SQUALL- A.P Indy was the '92 Horse of the Year after wins in the SA Derby, Belmont Stakes, and Breeders Cup Classic. Summer Squall was 13-for-20 lifetime with a win in the Preakness and a 2nd place finish in the Derby. Both horses won Grade 1 races at age 2.

#4. BLACK HELEN & BIMELECH- Two Hall of famer's dropped by the legendary broodmare La Troienne. the filly Black Helen was 15-for-22 with wins over the boys in the 1935 Florida Derby, and American Derby. Bimelech was 11-for-15 lifetime, including a perfect season at age two. He won the 1940 Preakness and Belmont...but was shockingly beat in the Ky Derby (he finished 2nd)

#5. SLEW O' GOLD & COASTAL- Slew O' Gold is a hall of famer who won 7 Grade 1's. Coastal is a multiple Grade 1 winner who upset the great Spectacular Bid in the Belmont Stakes.

#6. FORT MARCY & KEY TO THE MINT- Fort Marcy is a Hall of Famer who was Champion Grass horse in '67 and '70. Co-Horse of the Year in '70. Made over a million dollars when purses lacked. Key to the Mint was 14-for-29 lifetime. Named Champion 3yo over Riva Ridge in 1972.

#7. BEAUTIFUL PLEASURE & MECKE- B.P was a 6-time Grade 1 winner and champion mare of '99. Mecke won Grade 1 races on both surfaces, earned over $2 million, and won the '96 Arlington Million.

#8. PERSONAL ENSIGN & PERSONAL FLAG- PE was a perfect 13-for-13 and had one of the greatest careers ever. PF was a Grade 1 winning earner of over $1.2 million in the 80's.

#9. GLORIOUS SONG & DEVIL'S BAG- GS was a champion mare who won 17-for-34 lifetime, ran a solid 2nd to Spectacular Bid. Devil's Bag was 8-for-9 lifetime with a dazzling 2yo season. Fellow sibling Saint Ballado is lighting it up as a stallion. He's the sire of St. Liam, Ashado, Captain Bodgit etc.

#10. INSIDE INFORMATION & EDUCATED RISK- ER is a multiple Grade 1 winning millionaire who took 11-for-23. Inside Information was 14-for-17 lifetime, never missed the board, and outside of maybe Ruffian, she was the most explossive filly you'll ever see.

#11. Susan's Girl & Quaze Quilt- SG is a hall of famer. champion mare in '72, '74, and '75. Quaze Quilt won the '74 Kentucky Oaks and beat super filly Chris Evert at level weight in the Alabama.

#12. Mineshaft & Tomisue's Delight- Mine. was the '03 Horse of the year. TD is a multiple Gr 1 winner of over $1.2 million.

#13. Chateaugay & Primonetta- Chat. won 11 out of 24 starts. Including wins in the Ky Derby and Belmont stakes. 2nd in the Preakness. Primonetta was 17-for-25 lifetime and a champion mare in '62.

#14. Empire Maker & Chester House & Honest Lady- EM won the Florida Derby and Belmont, 2nd in KY Derby. CH won the Arlington Million, HL was a Grade 1 winning filly who ran 2nd in the Breeders Cup Sprint and Met Mile.

#15. Secretariat & Sir Gaylord- Big Red is a legendary horse. Sir Gaylord won 10-for-18 lifetime including 6 stakes, but none of them major. Beat 2yo champ Crimson Satan 3 straight times in Florida to start his 3yo season. His win in the Everglades Stakes came over eventual Ky Derby winner Decidedly, eventual 3yo champ Jaipur was 3rd, and Crimson Satan 5th.

#16. Paradise Creek & Forbidden Apple & Wild Event- PC was 14-for-24, a champion, and earner of over $2.4 million. FA was a Grade 1 winner of over $1.4 million. WE is a Gr 1 winner of over $937K

#17. Ghostzapper & City Zip- GZ is '04 Horse of the Year. CZ is a Grade 1 winner who swept all three Graded Stakes for 2yo's at Saratoga.

#18. Hill Prince & First Landing- HP won 17-for-30 and is in the Hall of Fame. First Landing won 19-for-37 and made $780K back in the late 50's.

#19. Pleasant Tap & Go For Gin- PT was a champion older horse and earner of over $2.7 million. GFG won the Ky Derby, and was 2nd in the Preakness and Belmont.

#20. Mongo & Neji- Mongo won 22-of-46 and made over $820K. Beat 5 time Horse of Year Kelso on BOTH surfaces. Also beat superstars Gun Bow and Carry Back. Neji is a 3-time Steeplechase champion, and is in the Hall of Fame.

[DrugSalvastore]

#21. Tiznow-Budroyale

#22. Charismatic-Millennium Wind-Tossofthecoin

#23. Alydar-Our Mims-Sugar And Spice


#24. Exceller-Capote

#25. Banks Hill-Intercontinental-Heat Haze

#26. Tom Fool-Aunt Jinny

#27. Touch Gold-With Approval

#28. Coaltown-Wistful

#29. Affectionately-Priceless Gem

#30. Awesome Again-Macho Uno

#31. Dance Smartly-Smart Strike

#32. Seattle Slew-Lomond

#33. Easy Goer-Cadillacing-Easy Now

#34. Honest Pleasure-For the Moment

#35. Tosmah-Halo

#36. Bold Ruler-Independence

#37. Real Delight-Princess Turia-Bubbley (all three won Ky Oaks!)

#38. Ridan-Moccasin

#39. Bold Lad-Sucessor

#40. Ruffian-Icecapade-Buckfinder

#41. Searching-Bridal Flower-Be Fearless-The Admiral-Great Captain

#42. Never Bend-Bold Reason

#43. Bewitch- Pot O' Luck

#44. Cigar-Mulca

#45. Tom Rolfe-Chieftain

#46. Chief's Crown-Classic Crown

#47. Queen Of The Stage-Reviewer

#48. Manila-Stately Don

#49. Queen Empress-King Emperor

#50. Nashua-Sabette

#51. Unbridled-Cahill Road

#52. A Gleam-Bardstown

#53. My Flag-Miner's Mark

#54. Gallant Man-Masaka

#55. Bowl of Flowers-Grustark

#56. Sky Classic-Regal Classic-Always A Classic

#57. Decathlon-Prince Blessed

#58. Wajima-Naskra

#59. Tim Tam-On And On

#60. Deamons Begone-Pine Bluff

#61. Go For Wand-Dance Spell

#62. MarKell-Nellie L.-Sunshine Nell

#63. Chief Bearhart-Explosive Red

#64. Imperial Gesture-Sardula

#65. Rahy-Singspeil

[KirisClown]

I think you covered most of them..... maybe a few others can be added..

ALDEBARAN and GOOD JOURNEY

THEATRICAL and TAIKI BLIZZARD

Stretching it a little... FOURSTARS ALLSTAR and FOURSTARDAVE

[Valuist]

I think both the Frankel trained trios should be in the top 10. I think the Banks Hill/Intercontinental/Heat Haze group had a brother who was either a Grade 2 or 3 winner.

Estrapade was a great mare but Criminal Type should NEVER have been horse of the year over a Derby/BC Classic winner. But Unbridled was a Midwest based horse and never got the hype that CT got.

[DrugSalvastore]

I think you covered most of them..... maybe a few others can be added..

ALDEBARAN and GOOD JOURNEY

THEATRICAL and TAIKI BLIZZARD

Stretching it a little... FOURSTARS ALLSTAR and FOURSTARDAVE

Taiki Blizzard flopped in his key American starts as I recall..made a ton of money in Japan though--that's for sure.

Good call on the Aldeb and GJ--but if they do make the list, it's not real high. It's hard to say if they even compare favorably with Sardula and Imperial Gesture--and I have them way down the list.

Daylami and Delakhani are obvious, both ELITE Turf horses in Europe, the former won the Breeders Cup Turf nicely, the latter is an Arc winner and absolute superstar who only lost once in his life if memory serves--I just didn't want to rate them though because they are both Euro based, and one didn't start in America

[DrugSalvastore]

I think both the Frankel trained trios should be in the top 10. I think the Banks Hill/Intercontinental/Heat Haze group had a brother who was either a Grade 2 or 3 winner.

The Banks Hill group had a brother named Dansilli who was 3rd in the 2000 Breeders Cup Mile in his only American start that I remember.

The Empire Maker/Chester House/Honest Lady group had another sibling named Chissling (sp?) who won a Grade 1 on the Arlington Turf, and Decarchy (who was a Grade 2 winner and a pretty solid horse.) Toussad is the dam of those five horses---she herself was a Grade 1 winner.

I was a little young the year Criminal Type won Horse of the Year, to his credit, he did defeat both Easy Goer and Sunday Silence (with the help of a favorable weight impost in both cases) and win four G1's that year. I think the repute of both EG and Sunday Silence played a big role in him getting the vote over Unbridled.

It's tough to rate them. The old geezers who think Man 'O War was the greatest of all-time would probably rate Black Helen and Bimilech #2, while someone like Jerry Brown, wouldn't rate those two horses in the top 10,000.

[Valuist]

Didn't Brown say that Mineshaft ran the biggest fig of all time......in a race he lost to Perfect Drift?

[DrugSalvastore]

Didn't Brown say that Mineshaft ran the biggest fig of all time......in a race he lost to Perfect Drift?

Yes, BUT, in his defense, Mineshaft came back with three dazzling wins in a row after that loss---never again losing.

So, after the fact, it's hard to knock him for that figure.

Mineshaft was hung up very wide on both turns, gave Perfect Drift a lot of weight, and narrowly missed in a race that produced an exceptionally fast final time for the distance. I can kind of see how an effort like that would produce a brobdingnagian (<----Like the word? it's me pretending to be smart again!) figure, when you take into account the way they make their figures.

Thoro-Graph (Jerry Brown) seems to think that horses are just becoming much faster every year. He cites advancements in Nutrition, Sports Medicince, drugs, more selective breeding, etc. for reasons why.

People want to hate on Frankel for not being a great guy--where's the hate for Brown I ask? That guy has a lawsuit fetish! He even threatened to sue Roger Stein.

[cj]

Didn't Brown say that Mineshaft ran the biggest fig of all time......in a race he lost to Perfect Drift?

Biggest at the time, though it has allegedly been bettered several times since.

[cj]

Thoro-Graph (Jerry Brown) seems to think that horses are just becoming much faster every year. He cites advancements in Nutrition, Sports Medicince, drugs, more selective breeding, etc. for reasons why.

People want to hate on Frankel for not being a great guy--where's the hate for Brown I ask? That guy has a lawsuit fetish! He even threatened to sue Roger Stein.

There is plenty of it for JB, even on his own board. The big problem is if you disagree with him too much or question his figures, he either deletes the post or tells you to go watch his "Are track speeds changing" presentation, and then brings up something bad about "The Sheets," usually something he has brought up 78 times before.

I'm not saying he doesn't have any good ideas, but the way some of the guys blindly follow him ala Jim Jones can be comical at times.

[cj]

Here is just one of many, many examples from JB:

.. Or even make a figure for something like Chilukki's first race, which had a field of first time starters running over a sealed track (first race of the day), that was unsealed after that race? (Note-- Ragozin did).

How long ago was Chilukki's first race? 1999? Get some new material already. The last is the Folklore race from Saratoga, he only brings that one up about once every two posts.

[KirisClown]

I think this pair also deserves to be there....

NASHWAN and NAYEF....

[DrugSalvastore]

There is plenty of it for JB, even on his own board. The big problem is if you disagree with him too much or question his figures, he either deletes the post or tells you to go watch his "Are track speeds changing" presentation, and then brings up something bad about "The Sheets," usually something he has brought up 78 times before.

I'm not saying he doesn't have any good ideas, but the way some of the guys blindly follow him ala Jim Jones can be comical at times.

I pretty much agree CJ.

I'm not a poster on his board, but I've always liked to go over there and read his posts. He has some very good thoughts and ideas--and even when I totally disagree with him, I give him credit for the thought he puts in.

But, I don't know if anyone as serious as he is, can possibly come off as a bigger asshole than he does...atleast to me. I think I come off pretty bad myself, but not like him!, he takes the cake.

[Valuist]

Ever have a conversation with a Sheethead at the track? I know for a fact Brown and Ragozin both believe strongly in pair ups......yet any time I talk to a Sheethead, the first word out of their mouth is BOUNCE. You'd think that the ideal way to approach a race was to come off an 11th place 22 length ass-kicking defeat in one's last race. You almost never hear the disciples talking about pair-ups.

[toetoe]

DSal,
I LOVE the brobdingnagian thing. It's GIGANTIC.

I don't recall the kids, but Durga, a mare by Tatan, had the best 5 or 6 foals, top to bottom, ever. What I don't know is whether any two were by the same sire.

Now, on the theory that Al Attles is an all-timer for combining with Wilt Chamberlain to score 117 points in a game, I nominate Secretariat and ANY of his brethren or sistren.

[DerbyTrail]

I pretty much agree CJ. I'm not a poster on his board, but I've always liked to go over there and read his posts. He has some very good thoughts and ideas--and even when I totally disagree with him, I give him credit for the thought he puts in.

But, I don't know if anyone as serious as he is, can possibly come off as a bigger asshole than he does...atleast to me. I think I come off pretty bad myself, but not like him!, he takes the cake.

DS/CJ,

As a friend of his, I can honestly tell you that you will rarely meet someone involved in racing as engaging and generous as Jerry Brown. It's true that he doesn't suffer fools gladly, but he is open to points of view from all comers. He may argue vehemently against the logic or methodology, etc., but always welcomes the engagement.

If you spent any time with him at the track or away from it, you'd revise your opinion of how he "comes off". I guess you could think of him as a "once you get to know him" kind of guy... He is utterly dedicated to his craft; is an aggressive advocate for players both out front and behind the scenes; a valuable voice in the industry; and a quality human being.

SB

(PS.. Love the historical siblings list BTW.. A topic not covered nearly enough in the mainstream racing media. I'm partial to the group of sisters by Bortai: Delta, Levee & Bayou, etc. that later yielded Shuvee, Dike, Slew o'Gold, etc.. )

[the little guy]

If you defend Gene Stevens next there's going to be a problem.

[DerbyTrail]

If you defend Gene Stevens next there's going to be a problem.

You can't kid me LG... You are as eager for the next addition of 'Post Time USA' as anyone...

[the little guy]

I keep copies for their blackmail potential.

[DrugSalvastore]

I don't recall the kids, but Durga, a mare by Tatan, had the best 5 or 6 foals, top to bottom, ever. What I don't know is whether any two were by the same sire.

I don't agree with that---but she was no doubt an exceptional broodmare.

She dropped five stakes winners, but only An Act (winner of the '76 Santa Anita Derby) won a stake race with a bigger purse than $50K.

Her five stakes winners were by the sires: Tom Rolfe, Damascus, Pretense, Drone, and Coastal.

If you want to go with the best siblings five deep--I think the best choices are.

* Empire Maker-Chester House-Honest Lady-Chiselling-Decarchy. That's four Grade 1 winners and a multiple Grade 2 winner. OR

* Searching-Be Fearless-Bridal Flower-The Admiral-Great Captain. Searching is a Hall of Famer, Bridal Flower won the Beldame and Gazelle, had success against boys (2nd in Vosburgh, 3rd in Pimlico Special) Be Fearless won 33-of-96 starts including the Bing Crosby Stakes. The Admiral won the Tremont and US. Hotels Stakes at two, and Great Captain won the Saratoga Cup in the East, and the San Marcos out west.

If you want six deep: Sky Classic, Regal Classic, Always A Classic, Classy 'N Smart, Grey Classic, and Classic Reign. Those are six stakes winners who all made over 300K.

The broodmare Courtly Dee is responsible for what I believe to be the deepest collection of quality siblings. 7 of her foals (Althea-Twining-Aquilegia-Aishan-Keton-Ali Oop-Native Courier) won GRADED stake races--another won a non-graded stake--and another didn't win a stake, but was multiple Grade 1 placed.

[DrugSalvastore]

DS/CJ,

As a friend of his, I can honestly tell you that you will rarely meet someone involved in racing as engaging and generous as Jerry Brown. It's true that he doesn't suffer fools gladly, but he is open to points of view from all comers. He may argue vehemently against the logic or methodology, etc., but always welcomes the engagement.

If you spent any time with him at the track or away from it, you'd revise your opinion of how he "comes off". I guess you could think of him as a "once you get to know him" kind of guy... He is utterly dedicated to his craft; is an aggressive advocate for players both out front and behind the scenes; a valuable voice in the industry; and a quality human being.

That's very fair.

I would think some people come off much worse on a message board than they do in person---I know I do....

We all have our biases--some like food, some like booze, I've always liked weed, and some like the legal system a little to much. Maybe that's just the case with JB.

[toetoe]

DrugS,

I remembered one of Durga's foals --- Mama Kali, a good, not great horse. I'm drawing a blank on the other foals. Also, the Canadian horses should be looked at closely. What with huge and/or restricted purses, some ordinary Canadian beasts make huge dough. That said, by a criterion other than money earned, some or all of those mentioned may be exceptional.

[toetoe]

Apologies, DSal. I thought I was eavesdropping , but you were talking to me. Thanks.

[DrugSalvastore]

DrugS,

I remembered one of Durga's foals --- Mama Kali, a good, not great horse. I'm drawing a blank on the other foals. Also, the Canadian horses should be looked at closely. What with huge and/or restricted purses, some ordinary Canadian beasts make huge dough. That said, by a criterion other than money earned, some or all of those mentioned may be exceptional.

Good point about the Canadian money being deceptive. Here's a little more detail about the six. The broodmare who dropped these six foals is named No Class.

Sky Classic (15-for-29 lifetime, multiple Gr. 1 winner, made over $3 million, narrowly beaten favorite in the BC Turf.)

Regal Classic (8 time stakes winning millionaire, ran 2nd in the '87 Breeders Cup Juvenile)

Always A Classic (lifetime record of 8-6-1-1. Grade 1 winner in the USA)

Classy N Smart (9-5-3-0 record, all five wins in stake races, won the Canadian Oaks. Dam (mother) of Dance Smartly and Smart Strike)

Grey Classic (five time stakes winner, a Graded Stakes winner in the USA, and Grade 1 placed in the USA)

Classic Reign (multiple stakes winner. Ran 2nd in the 3rd jewel of the Canadian Triple Crown)

It's a little funny that a filly named No Class turned out to be such a legendary Canadian broodmare. She was only 3-for-29 lifetime as a race horse.

[toetoe]

Two ordinary mares, Procne and Spectacular, raced against each other, then foaled Flying Paster, a very nice Ca.-bred, and Spectacular Bid, a champion.