View Full Version : Bobby Frankel: Explain the Myth
the little guy
11-08-2005, 11:27 AM
What am I missing? He scratches WAY more often than he runs ( entered three today, two on the turf as the year winds down and there is nowhere else to run, and scratched them all ). He barely runs any of his horses, which ties up stalls, and denies owners the opportunity to make money. So, what I'm wondering is....
1 ) Why do tracks give him stallspace?
2 ) Why does anyone give him a horse?
I do not deny he is a very talented trainer ( perhaps one of the best ) but at this point he doesn't seem to be in the game to make money for anyone but merely to prove some indecipherable point while keeping his win percentage as high as possible. Ya know, they don't make money sitting in the barn.
Is it just me or are other people tiring of his act?
GMB@BP
11-08-2005, 11:36 AM
well after intercontinentals win he has even more reason to spew his usual bullshit.
maybe he expects a 5 horse field and when that does not happen he is concerned.
toetoe
11-08-2005, 12:24 PM
At least he doesn't do what Whittingham used to do. Charlie would have some good runners entered late in the card. When he scratched way late, and I'm not sure why he was allowed to without repercussions, the races would be thrown wide open and, of course, their backers would get the favorites in serial bets. Frankel is taking up stall space, but at least the also-eligible horses can still get in, right? By the way, will they ever be able to get a-e's for the big TC and BC races? I guess the future wagering is the sticking point. It's just a shame when someone scratches late due to injury, etc., and no one else can squeeze in.
I'm sure he runs enough horses to always be guaranteed space.
Another itcher who's always scratching is Neil Drysdale.
Figman
11-08-2005, 01:12 PM
Add Michael Dickinson.....but he doesn't take up stall space at a racetrack - he just doesn't run from Tapeta Farm.
saratoga guy
11-08-2005, 01:18 PM
As a fan I would agree about Frankel -- there was some horse at Saratoga (I'm blanking on the name) that he must have scratched at least three or four times this summer.
And the "bubble-wrapped" campaigns of his stakes horses is frustrating.
But ultimately, without acutally knowing how many starts per stall he's making it's hard to fault tracks for giving him stall space.
And if you're an owner, well, the guy ranks in the Top 20 nationwide in races won, and he's #2 in money won this year.
PaceAdvantage
11-08-2005, 01:58 PM
And here I thought his scratching at NYRA tracks was his way of protesting the firing of Mike Lakow....
He does this everywhere else as well?
the little guy
11-08-2005, 02:12 PM
And here I thought his scratching at NYRA tracks was his way of protesting the firing of Mike Lakow....
He does this everywhere else as well?I don't really follow other circuits. Are there other tracks stupid enough to waste stall space on him?
toetoe
11-08-2005, 03:36 PM
Hollywood Park year-round, I think.
Figman
11-08-2005, 04:13 PM
Woodbine in 2005 as well.
PaceAdvantage
11-08-2005, 04:19 PM
Then my theory has been proven false....seemed like he was scratching a lot more after Lakow got let go....
Valuist
11-08-2005, 05:10 PM
He's had stalls at Keeneland and Churchill also. I think its just Sheets-o-phobia (give a horse 60 days between races for fear of the "inevitable" dreaded, bounce). I think one thing we have learned is that mode of thinking does not work well for the Triple Crown or Breeders Cup races.
Fastracehorse
11-08-2005, 05:31 PM
Frankel won't run a horse if he doesn't think it is 100 %.
His owners know this - Juddmonte Farms was his staple for years before he hit the biggs - and let him control the horse aspect of the game.
fffastt
foregoforever
11-08-2005, 05:31 PM
I wonder what Alinghi's owners think of their decision to go with Bobby? She ran 16 times in a 16-month stretch down under. Bobby gets her, immediately puts her on the shelf and manages 2 races in 6 months.
I suppose he'll still get the Juddmonte horses, but you'd think overseas connections would find better alternatives ... like Graham Motion.
NYPlayer
11-08-2005, 05:32 PM
Late scratches can be frustrating, but I haven't noticed that Frankel does this any more than than the other big name trainers. I've noticed other seasons where others like Dutrow would enter horses as coupled entries on multiple days, and then pick which day to actually run part of the entry.
I don't mind the scratches as long as they're posted prior to the start of the races, so I can re-analyze the race prior to betting. One thing I find especially trying though is when a horse that I had planned on betting is scratched. It can really throw my day out of whack.
As for Frankel, he had two horses in the Turf Mile. Both ran and Intercontinental won - at a great price too. If I owned the track, I'd have no trouble giving him stall space. Not at all.
kenwoodallpromos
11-08-2005, 10:02 PM
He was a poster boy for the DRF.
Obviously he has a lot of horses whether he runs them enough or not. So he is still making his day rate.
TLG- thanks for starting a thread with this interesting aspect of trainer think!
midnight
11-09-2005, 04:16 AM
How do Frankel's horses hold up, as opposed to Pletcher, Dutrow, Assmussen, etc.? How is his percentage of horses that are retired due to injury compare to the other top names?
Valuist
11-09-2005, 09:38 AM
I would say they hold up much better than the aforementioned names. He's always specialized in older horses and he certainly doesn't run them into the ground.
KirisClown
11-09-2005, 09:44 AM
Grey Traffic might be one of the most scratched horses in the history of racing.... each and every time she is entered, Bobby takes her out...
kitts
11-09-2005, 01:38 PM
Many years ago, Bobby Frankel came to California primarily as a trainer of Claimers. He was diligent and polite to the fans. He worked with the Racing Secretary and the grooms. He paid his dues. Now he has risen to the top of the heap. If I ever get to the top, I'll be right along with Bobby doing just whatever I want to do!
the little guy
11-09-2005, 01:42 PM
Many years ago, Bobby Frankel came to California primarily as a trainer of Claimers. He was diligent and polite to the fans. He worked with the Racing Secretary and the grooms. He paid his dues. Now he has risen to the top of the heap. If I ever get to the top, I'll be right along with Bobby doing just whatever I want to do!That certainly speaks well of you.
westny
11-09-2005, 02:53 PM
Then my theory has been proven false....seemed like he was scratching a lot more after Lakow got let go....
I don't think your theory is false at all.
As I posted in another thread, Frankel raced more horses in Delaware and Monmouth than he did in NY. I checked his entries every day along with Pletcher.
As for scratching in NY, you bet he did. After Lakow was let go, just about every Frankel entry was "scratched" at Belmont spring, Saratoga (except for a very few stakes races) and even then he scratched.
He continued to scratch in Belmont Fall...look at Frankel in the trainer standings in NY this year, and in the past when Frankel raced in NY from May to October and rarely at Mon and Del.
Frankel raced at Woodbine this year only becasue he got a few horses from Stronach.
In the past both Frankel and Pletcher raced sparingly at MON and Del, mostly stakes races. This year, both raced the fewest horses in NY compared to the size of their stables.
For anyone who follows NY racing, that should be obvious. Saratoga weekday races were "filled with NYbred races". Belmont Fall was "worse", NYbred 2 year old MSW/CL filled the cards.
the little guy
11-09-2005, 03:09 PM
Pletcher ran more horses in Delaware because he was given significantly less stalls in NY.
DrugSalvastore
11-10-2005, 05:13 AM
What am I missing? He scratches WAY more often than he runs ( entered three today, two on the turf as the year winds down and there is nowhere else to run, and scratched them all ). He barely runs any of his horses, which ties up stalls, and denies owners the opportunity to make money. So, what I'm wondering is....
1 ) Why do tracks give him stallspace?
2 ) Why does anyone give him a horse?
I do not deny he is a very talented trainer ( perhaps one of the best ) but at this point he doesn't seem to be in the game to make money for anyone but merely to prove some indecipherable point while keeping his win percentage as high as possible. Ya know, they don't make money sitting in the barn.
Is it just me or are other people tiring of his act?
I'm tiring of the act of people who feel the need to knock Bobby Frankel for the exceptional job he does of managing his horses.
It's really astonishing to me, how someone as intelligent and competent as the poster I am quoting, can produce such a frivolous and absurdly stupid post. (I've had my fair share of frivolous and stupid posts--but I am stupid, so I'm allowed!)
As for your two questions..., you know the answer to both of them, but I will be a good sport.
#1. Why do tracks give Frankel stall space? He simply has an army of top race horses...tracks want elite race horses on their grounds...you don't say no to the mighty Bobby Frankel machine.
#2. Why does anyone give Frankel a horse? He's a five time Eclipse Award winning trainer, a hall of fame trainer, one of the best claiming trainers in the history of the game, he trained last years Horse of the Year, and he's been around for a long time (he won a Saratoga training title 35 YEARS AGO!) That's 11 years before I was ever born! I think that's why people give him horses to train!
I like how you cutely added "they don't make money sitting in the barn" but you neglect to add that they also WON'T GET HURT sitting in the barn.
I've owned race horses before, and I had one experience that still bothers the living hell out of me. I claimed a horse named Dixie Doodle, he was an exceptionally tough and honest old claimer who was surprisingly healthy for a horse who ran 60 or so times and made over $250K. Looking at his form, this horse hated off-tracks. He was the morning line favorite for an open claimer with a $19,000 purse. It rained hard, against my better judgement I didn't demand the trainer scratch him, he was last early on and according to the jock "fighting with the track." He closed to finish 2nd beaten less than a length--came out of the race with a career ending injury. That REALLY sucked!!
I don't have a ton of money to my name, and I had much less than compared to now, but I would have gladly given the $3,800 purse back, waited another four weeks to run, and scratched off the check to my trainer for $1,800 while my horse went all month without a race, and stayed "sitting in his stall."
I basically just butchered the life and career of an exceptionally honest old race horse who was in razor sharp form. I'll never feel good about that.
Frankel is a great trainer, Frankel is a good person, and Frankel understands and cares about bettors. It's really that simple. He might be a myth to you, but he's a legend to me. So, I'm sorry his "act" doesn't please you. It even kind of bothers me some when people like you take a stab at knocking Frankel. It's probably my bias to him, but to me it comes across as being a cheap shot against a guy, only because you don't like or approve of him on a personal level. I think if Frankel went out of his way to be buddy-buddy with more pressbox type people, his style of training wouldn't get unfairly criticized as often as it does. JMO.
DrugSalvastore
11-10-2005, 05:42 AM
Frankel won't run a horse if he doesn't think it is 100 %.
Leriodesanameaux just recently.
It was former Mr. Universe 2002, Mike Watchmaker, who harshly criticized the powers that be (NYRA) for not scratching Frankel's 2nd place finisher in the Breeders Cup Mile.
At first, I thought Watchmaker (who I do like reading) was being sarcastic by suggesting NYRA should force Frankel to scratch. Kind of like forcing a fat kid to eat a jelly donut---but he was in fact being serious. I didn't agree with him on that issue at all! But, he was trying to be pro-betting public.
"Leroy" did get beat---but he ran a very strong race---and it can even be argued that he ran the best race in the Mile. The winner was a very good horse who sat the perfect trip he projected to get...and, in my opinion, the 3rd place finisher didn't have anything near the tough trip it originally looked like she had.
If the post positions and flow of the race had been changed, I actually think Leroy would have likely won. Thankfully that wasn't the case.
DrugSalvastore
11-10-2005, 06:14 AM
I wonder what Alinghi's owners think of their decision to go with Bobby? She ran 16 times in a 16-month stretch down under. Bobby gets her, immediately puts her on the shelf and manages 2 races in 6 months.
I suppose he'll still get the Juddmonte horses, but you'd think overseas connections would find better alternatives ... like Graham Motion.
It isn't a bright idea to rush foreign imports to the races. You can REALLY screw them up that way.
Bobby Frankel is the master with foreign imports---It blows my mind how people can't praise him endlessly for this. Better alternatives?
Look at Starine!--she was a former claimer in Europe! She was 2-for-10 in Europe, one win came in a claiming race, and the other was in a race restricted for Female riders only!!! Look it up! Frankel, who owned her, got her to win the Breeders Cup Filly & Mare Turf.
Leroidesanmeaux is another recent example!--nice horse in South America, but nothing that special--turned him into a genuinely SUPER turf miler.
Intercont, Megahurtz, Mizzen Mast, Mazel Trick etc etc etc etc.
Mazel Trick was like junk in Europe---can anyone tell me the name of JUST ONE horse in the last 7 years who ran two back-to-back races as strong as Mazel Trick did in 1999? I'll answer, you can't!...because no horse ever did in that time span.
I don't get the lack of love for Frankel. Just don't!
Maybe it's the high volume of scratches?, or maybe it has something to do with his political beliefs? Maybe some people don't like him because he trains for those "evil" Suadi's? I guess there are still people in 2005 who aren't very fond of his ethnicity...maybe for one or two people that might have something to do with it? Maybe he somehow comes acorss as a jerk or cocky?
All I know is Frankel is as good as it gets. If you evalute and judge him on the job he does with his horses---you will see that he is pure excellence at his profession. As good as it will ever get.
Mazel Trick was like junk in Europe---can anyone tell me the name of JUST ONE horse in the last 7 years who ran two back-to-back races as strong as Mazel Trick did in 1999? I'll answer, you can't!...because no horse ever did in that time span.
Left Bank.
Left Bank.
2002
Back2Back
121 BSF's
the little guy
11-10-2005, 09:50 AM
Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion.
For example, many of Frankel's former owners, some who might dispute your claim that horses don't get injured " sitting in the barn ", might disagree with some of your assertions.
But, like I said, everyone is entitled to their opinions.
toetoe
11-10-2005, 10:19 AM
DrugS,
Tlg understandably took a very slightly hyperbolic stand, to get the omnilogue started.
Not only is the goodness of the guy immaterial, it's unknowable, isn't it?
How about Mizzen Mast, another (I think) Frankelite and contemporary of MT? I know he had at least one huge race. Another that did not last long, no implication intended.
PaceAdvantage
11-10-2005, 01:55 PM
...his style of training wouldn't get unfairly criticized as often as it does. JMO.
Where? (And don't say here, cause here don't count)
DrugSalvastore
11-10-2005, 03:47 PM
Left Bank.
On speed figures--the two races Left Bank run are marginally better....and the 120 and 128 Ghostzapper ran back-to-back are even better than Left Bank's two.
Still, IMO, the two back-to-back races by Mazel Trick in 1999 are so vastly superior to anything else that it isn't even funny--both of his figures from those two races where highly debatable---and horses who got absolutely drowned in those two races--came back to subsequently win Grade 1's and major stake races with much higher figures.
The two Mazel Trick wins were as impressive as it gets both visually and analytically..., and from a figure standpoint they only were a pair of 118's, but I was convinced both of those figures came back laughably slow. It's sometimes hard to give a horse off a seven month layoff, who's never run real fast before, such a giant figure like that. The Triplebend figure was VERY conservative.
DrugSalvastore
11-10-2005, 04:04 PM
Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion.
For example, many of Frankel's former owners, some who might dispute your claim that horses don't get injured " sitting in the barn ", might disagree with some of your assertions.
But, like I said, everyone is entitled to their opinions.
Yea, no doubt.
I might have been a little bit over-the-top with the spirit in my reply. I think I've been witness to a few to many NYRA threads around here. They always get spirited defenses like that.
Not that I have anything against NYRA---they are as good or better than all other track management in my opinion---but that's not saying much! It's like being the prettiest girl at the fat camp! I don't get how they can have so much love and so many enimies--like they do around here.
DrugSalvastore
11-10-2005, 04:11 PM
Where? (And don't say here, cause here don't count)
HERE---and it was even worse at the other message board I came from. Even the so called "horsey lovers" who don't bet hated Frankel.
He's not a very appreciated guy around pressbox type people in my opinion. Not just in New York either---I know multiple West Coast (So. Cal) pressbox type gents who think he's an overrated cheater and a bad person. Knowing the people I am referring to out West, if Frankel bought them a choclate milkshake and tried to be a friend of theirs---he would instantly turn into a training God.
the little guy
11-10-2005, 04:47 PM
I could tell a very specific and very recent story concerning Frankel that would sway your opinion of his behavoir but unfortunately I cannot.
Be that as it may, I do believe he is an extremely talented trainer ( only an idiot would argue with that considering his vast ouevre of success ), and stated as much, but I believe his enter and scratch tactics are tiresome and not in the best interests of racing, to say the least. I respect his support of Mike Lakow, as I am a supporter of his as well, but if he's going to choose to continue to stable his horses in NY he has an obligation to play fair. It is my opinion that he doesn't. I do not believe that other trainers would be accorded the same preference that he is if they scratched the percentage of entrants that he does.
foregoforever
11-10-2005, 09:09 PM
There's no question Frankel is an outstanding trainer, but there are others around that are quite good on the turf. It surprises me that he gets all the import horses that he does, though.
He does race his horses infrequently, and it's very rare for him to run his horses against each other. There are only so many races to go around. So if I was Alinghi's owner and was shopping for a trainer, why would I send her to Frankel, who already had Leroi, Intercontinental, and several others running at similar distances?
If you're looking for that one Grade 1 win as a send-off to the breeding shed, Bobby's probably your man. But if you're looking for your horse to run to a consistent, competitive campaign and really show what he/she is capable of, I think there are better choices.
rastajenk
11-11-2005, 02:51 AM
I wonder if his win rate has suffered any with the loss of Doc Harthill. :cool:
Dr. Carter
11-15-2005, 07:24 AM
I wonder if his win rate has suffered any with the loss of Doc Harthill. :cool:
Dr. Harthill had virtually no business for the last 5 years. He was so senile at the end they had to take his car away from him. Any juicing he did was years ago.
GMB@BP
11-15-2005, 09:08 AM
drug,
your post was a good read, right up to the "he is a good person" statement. If he is a good person then Bob Baffert is mother theresa.
the little guy
11-15-2005, 10:30 AM
drug,
your post was a good read, right up to the "he is a good person" statement. If he is a good person then Bob Baffert is mother theresa.
Well, other than Mother Theresa being dead, I always felt there were many similarities.
taintso
11-15-2005, 12:35 PM
I could tell a very specific and very recent story concerning Frankel that would sway your opinion of his behavoir but unfortunately I cannot.
Then why mention it at all?
kenwoodallpromos
11-15-2005, 01:23 PM
My guess- Our guesses are more interesting than the real story!
the little guy
11-15-2005, 01:27 PM
Then why mention it at all?Are you another self appointed arbitor of proper posting.....in just your 7th post no less?
I could tell a very specific and very recent story concerning Frankel that would sway your opinion of his behavoir but unfortunately I cannot.
Then why mention it at all?
I'm sure many of the board members would like ask the same question as taintso did on the numerous occasions that the "I could tell, but unfortunately I cannot" comes about.
Some of us know not to bother with what response will sure to follow.
Are you another self appointed arbitor of proper posting.....in just your 7th post no less?
the little guy
11-15-2005, 02:03 PM
Ya know, I understand where the guy is coming from, and he's not totally wrong, though in this particular case I was sort of answering DrugS, who has a naive understanding of the situation, by basically saying " there are plenty of stories out there that might sway your opinion ". Which is not to say that general chat room rumor should always ( or ever ) alter people's opinions.
There is however something distasteful about being chastised in someone's seventh post. I can't take anyone to heart until a minimum of 37 posts. And even then.....
taintso
11-15-2005, 02:14 PM
Ya know, I understand where the guy is coming from, and he's not totally wrong, though in this particular case I was sort of answering DrugS, who has a naive understanding of the situation, by basically saying " there are plenty of stories out there that might sway your opinion ". Which is not to say that general chat room rumor should always ( or ever ) alter people's opinions.
There is however something distasteful about being chastised in someone's seventh post. I can't take anyone to heart until a minimum of 37 posts. And even then.....
This is classic. We're all lucky to have you around...
the little guy
11-15-2005, 02:15 PM
This is classic. We're all lucky to have you around...
The fact that you're named after a horse I like will only get you so far.
There is however something distasteful about being chastised in someone's seventh post. I can't take anyone to heart until a minimum of 37 posts. And even then.....
Perhaps it is better to be in receipt of a censure by a newbie(who isn't really a newbie) & get it out of the way? :) :)
Take solace in the fact that u haven't lost your touch!! :D :D
DrugSalvastore
11-15-2005, 10:49 PM
drug,
your post was a good read, right up to the "he is a good person" statement. If he is a good person then Bob Baffert is mother theresa.
It may have been over-the-top for me to say that he's a good person. I've walked up to him before with a question, and he gave me a thoughtful reply. In no way did he come off condescending or rush away from me. I'm not someone in a position to know with certainty how good or bad a person he is.
Let me add, that TLG's story is in regard to Frankel's poor treatment of an owner. It wasn't the first time that I've heard something about Frankel being a difficult person for owners to get along with.
People are people, and even millionaire horse owners have feelings, so if he did treat one (or several more) of those good folks bad---shame on him! These recent stories are TOTALLY OUT OF CHARACHTER with a lot of the stuff I've heard regarding the younger version of trainer Bobby Frankel.
This is straight from the HRTV Bio of handicapper Jeff Siegel. Siegel is a pretty respected handicapper and horse owner. In the last chapter of Beyer On Speed--Beyer praises Siegel's understanding of West Coast racing.
"Q. Who is your favorite trainer?
A. My favorite trainer of all time is Bobby Frankel because when I had the pleasure of having horses with him in the 1970's, nobody taught me more about this game than he did."
I've heard so many kind things just like that said about Bobby Frankel. I've even heard stories about how extremely generous a tipper he was.
Maybe he's changed now that he's employed by the evil Saudi Royal Family, and he has people like Gann giving him expensive cars as gifts---who knows, and frankly who really cares! There is a lot of jealousy in and around this game, that little I do know. Maybe Frankel has become a victim of that, or maybe he's just becoming a prick with old age.
I still like the guy--even though it seems to be fashionable to hate on him these days.
DrugSalvastore
11-15-2005, 10:57 PM
in this particular case I was sort of answering DrugS, who has a naive understanding of the situation
I have a pretty naive understanding of all situations.
toetoe
11-15-2005, 11:01 PM
He's shown me he picked up some manners along the way. Now, when he wants to rip the stewards, he asks permission from the presenter of the trophy his stakes horse has just won, then lambastes the stewards for a takedown in the previous race. I gotta love it.
Way back when, I've read, he so enraged an owner in SoCal, I think by repeatedly claiming off him, that said owner retaliated by claiming 100% of Frankel's claiming runners, which constituted close to 100% of Frankel's stock. The rumor was that someone set up a meeting, and Frankel apologized for whatever it was, but boy, that's hard to picture.
kenwoodallpromos
11-16-2005, 01:24 AM
Thank you for the Frankel info!
I hear there are as many complications and attitiudes as there are owners and trainers!
GMB@BP
11-16-2005, 09:04 AM
I have met siegel a couple of times at santa anita and know he is knowledgable on the game.
I know a few owners who have had horses with frankel, such as the owner of a horse named Squirtle Squirt, who won the breeders cup sprint with frankel. More or less he said frankel, great trainer but a complete jerk. One day he called and asked whats up with the horse after a long period of no communication and he got "he is doing ok", then he asked when he was going to run again, answer was "I dont know", next question, is there any plans at all, answer "i will let you know when the time comes".....I mean this was not a claimer we are talking about.
kenwoodallpromos
11-16-2005, 11:06 AM
"won the breeders cup sprint". I forgot- Did Squirt retire due to injury?
GMB@BP
11-16-2005, 12:10 PM
I honestly dont remember, I think he just kinda tailed off and was retired, maybe injury.
DrugSalvastore
11-16-2005, 02:55 PM
I know a few owners who have had horses with frankel, such as the owner of a horse named Squirtle Squirt, who won the breeders cup sprint with frankel. More or less he said frankel, great trainer but a complete jerk. One day he called and asked whats up with the horse after a long period of no communication and he got "he is doing ok", then he asked when he was going to run again, answer was "I dont know", next question, is there any plans at all, answer "i will let you know when the time comes".....I mean this was not a claimer we are talking about.
I heard almost the exact same story word for word.
I even mentioned it to another poster in a PM on this subject.
He did a pretty good job training the horse in question--and because of showing very poor communication skills with a millionaire owner--does that make him a 'bad person'?
If I heard about this situation, and you heard about it, the owner was probably pretty bothered by it, and told it to a lot of people. Not that I have anything against wealthy horse owners, but it might be possible that those type of people get kissed up to more than average people---and they tend to be much more sensitive to stuff like this, than average people are.
I don't know. I've defending Frankel enough here. He's sort of become my own version of NYRA.
GMB@BP
11-16-2005, 03:00 PM
I heard almost the exact same story word for word.
I even mentioned it to another poster in a PM on this subject.
He did a pretty good job training the horse in question--and because of showing very poor communication skills with a millionaire owner--does that make him a 'bad person'?
If I heard about this situation, and you heard about it, the owner was probably pretty bothered by it, and told it to a lot of people. Not that I have anything against wealthy horse owners, but it might be possible that those type of people get kissed up to more than average people---and they tend to be much more sensitive to stuff like this, than average people are.
I don't know. I've defending Frankel enough here. He's sort of become my own version of NYRA.
that was one story, there are several more.....oops.....guess I may have a "why mention it coming" from someone.....
"won the breeders cup sprint". I forgot- Did Squirt retire due to injury?
If memory serves, the right amount of money was offered & that led to the retirement of Squirtle Squirt.
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