Whoops ! Another one

[karlskorner]

According to Bloodhorse and CBS Sportsline

"Trainer Richard Violette Jr. was suspended and fined $500 by Belmont stewards Sunday after a banned substance was found in the urine of Flying Sharp.

The 15 day suspension was reduced to seven after Violette waived his right to appeal. Traces of the drug Robaxin, commonly used for back pain and as a muscle relaxer, was found in Flying Sharp, who finished second in the fifth race at Aqu. on1/18/02.

Flying Sharp was disqualified and declared unplaced in the revised order of finish"

Don't read the articles, or bury your head in the sand, or tell me how reporters are trying to "burn" the business of racing, I really don't care. But it's out there and these are the few they are catching. 15 days reduced to 7 because he "admitted" it.

A good article on drugs can be found at;

www.als.edu/glc/wagering/reports.html

Titled: "Let's try an alternate approach to drug penalties"

Karl

[so.cal.fan]

Traces of the drug Robaxin, commonly used for back pain and as a muscle relaxer.............
My friend, a Hospice Nurse, gives this drug to dying people!
I don't know anything about drugs, but I think it is a really STRONG one, this Robaxin!
:eek:

[karlskorner]

so.cal.fan

I don't know anything about the drug, but what bothers me is that he peels off $500, takes a 7 dav fishing vacation and goes right back to work again. I know drugs are being used, I live with it on a daily basis, but I don't like it.

Karl

[Tom]

I am sure that the racing fraternity doesn't mean to upset you personnally, in fact I am sure that the average racing fan is the farthest thing from their minds! <G>

No matter how you slice it, a cheater is a cheater and I say lifetime bans are the only deterent. If a trainer can't control his charges, then better he find a new line of work.
Zero tolerance on drugs, electricity, shoes, whatever they use to cheat.

[Observer]

First of all, it is naive to believe racehorses never recieve any drugs, of any kind. They all need to be medicated at some point for something .. that's just life.

Second, it is naive to believe only claimers at the cheap tracks have ailments, unless they have been sent to the sidelines because of major injury that must have time. The reality, as I believe, is that more horses than not have their physical ailments. Honestly, these are athletes .. aches and pains are going to happen.

Third, to believe all trainers are doping their horses for race day, and now we have a rash of the "bad apples" getting caught is just as naive. Many of the horses on the track may need to be medicated on a daily basis in some form or another until race day comes along. Honest mistakes are bound to happen.

Horses have allergies, just like people .. hence the use of clenbuterol. Horses have back problems just like people .. hence the use of robaxin. And like people, horses are susceptible to any number of ailments .. including arthritis and ulcers. Just because they are animals doesn't mean they have no aches and pains .. hence the widespread use of bute in states where permitted .. but no one is complaining about bute, because bute is legal, eventhough it masks pain!

In this latest case, where Violette "admitted" to the drug positive by dropping his right to appeal, trace amounts of robaxin were found. Does anyone know the levels?? Sure, an overage is an overage, but seriously, in most cases, when trace amounts are found, they are so minute it's almost ludicrous .. like a few years ago when trainers like Pletcher and Hennig had horses in Florida found with such small amounts, it wouldn't have even had an impact on a human! And here we're talking about animals that are much larger than humans .. we're talking about 1,000 pound animals!

To think trainers are cheating just because they have had a horse test positive does not mean they are cheaters, often it simply means the medication the horse needs did not clear out in time.

Could it be that maybe Violette simply accepted the 7 days to avoid the fight which could end up coming out with a 15-day ban. Accepting the 7 days gets him out and back to work quickly, preventing a delay in the suspension, which could end up falling at a less then ideal time if appealed. Now may be a more "right" time than later. It's not like he's winning tons of stakes races like some of these other guys, or tons of claiming races for that matter. So to think a fine means nothing to him, and he's happy to get a "fishing vacation" is another naive way of thinking.

[so.cal.fan]

Good post, Observer.
I know for a fact that many of the big stables here in So. Cal.
who have to use some of these drugs like Clenbuterol (which really helps horses train well, and more comfortably) send their own horse's urine test to the lab in Orange County to be tested. PRIOR TO RACE DAY to MAKE SURE there are NO TRACES of any drugs at RACE DAY.

[karlskorner]

It is certainly within the scope of my naivete to believe that Doctor "Feelgood" or Trainer "Goodfellow" would administer any medication that would relieve the pain or improve the well being of any horse. After all who wants to win races.

Karl

[karlskorner]

so.cal.fan.

For what purpose does sending a urine test to the Lab in Orange country a couple of days before the race serve, when on race day a drug can be administered. Most Lab's take weeks/months before they issue a report. Are you implying that the Big Stables pay an extra surcharge for this test to insure that the animal is "clean" before a race. The is an old saying "Loose the purse, win the bet"

Karl

[so.cal.fan]

Karl,
No, that isn't what I imply.
Most layoff horses train much, much better on Clenbuterol.
The rule is, I think 7 days, it needs to be out of their system for race day. Now, every horse, just like people are different.
They do this to make sure that a "trace" does not show up in a test. Their horses run drug free, as they are required by law to.
Several of our trainers have been fined for "traces" of this or that, and they are very, very small amounts, that have remained in the system longer than expected. That's all.
One stable I have in mind, that does this for the above reason:
The trainer NEVER bets. His owners are very wealthy people, who are rarely at the track. They have good horses, they hope/expect to compete in Stakes races. These people are certainly not interested in betting, if they bet at all, it is for entertainment.

[andicap]

Zero tolerance is unrealistic. What if a groom wanted to get back at a trainer who he felt had treated him unfairly? What if, as has been suggested in the above notes, there was a trace of the drug left in the horse due to a human error, but not maleviolent intent?
You just can't be inflexible with these rules. It's like saying if you kill someone you should get "X" punishment. Well, what if there are extenuating circumstances (like I see on "Law & Order" all the time:) ? that's why the law has Murder-one, Murder-Two, Man-1, Man -2, etc.
Same thing with trainers.

Yes, repeat offenders should get treated harshly, etc., but different sets of facts suggest different degrees of punishment.

[PaceAdvantage]

Has anyone brought up the Neil Drysdale suspension, or did I just miss the post???

He got 45 days after Hawthorne Derby winner Flying Dash tested + for clenbuterol (breathing med) and promazine sulfoxide (tranq).



==PA

[karlskorner]

PA:

Would I miss such a juicy story, It's under New Frontiers, this post, 2nd page about 6 down. That's what started all this. I read today he's appealing, why not. Most trainers have a card board sign next to a mirror, reads "WHO ME" ???? Just to keep in practice.

Karl

[Show Me the Wire]

In a prior post I discussed performance enhancing drugs and medicinal drugs. The Flying Dash tested for clenbuteral in Illinois which is a zero tolerance state, which was a nistake by the trainer. Flying Dash was based in Kentucky and probably would have been tested negative because Kentucky has threshold limits and I believe Drysdale probably ASSUMED Illinois had the same standards, because Drysdale does not race in Illinois. Big mistake. The tranquilizer was just a real screw up. The horse was vanned to Illinois to close to the race date and was more than likely tranquilized for the trip, standard operating proceedure. Tranquilization is usually done for the horse's safety.

Yes the stable used bad judgment but the drugs administered were not for the purpose of cheating.

Regards,
Show Me the Wire

[Tom]

Originally posted by Observer
First of all, it is naive to believe racehorses never recieve any drugs, of any kind. They all need to be medicated at some point for something .. that's just life.
============================================
The time is not race day. Whose responsibility is it to ensure this rule is met? The trainer.
============================================
Second, it is naive to believe only claimers at the cheap tracks have ailments, unless they have been sent to the sidelines because of major injury that must have time. The reality, as I believe, is that more horses than not have their physical ailments. Honestly, these are athletes .. aches and pains are going to happen.
============================================
Agree. But my drug views apply to all, from Zippy Chippy to War Emblem. A grudgged horse is adrigged horse.
============================================

Third, to believe all trainers are doping their horses for race day, and now we have a rash of the "bad apples" getting caught is just as naive. Many of the horses on the track may need to be medicated on a daily basis in some form or another until race day comes along. Honest mistakes are bound to happen.
===========================================
Ther is no room for honest mistake when ten of thousands of dollars are bet on the outcome of a race. w naive to believe that better testing is no exposing a lot of heretofore undetected rules violations?
===========================================
Horses have allergies, just like people .. hence the use of clenbuterol. Horses have back problems just like people .. hence the use of robaxin. And like people, horses are susceptible to any number of ailments .. including arthritis and ulcers. Just because they are animals doesn't mean they have no aches and pains .. hence the widespread use of bute in states where permitted .. but no one is complaining about bute, because bute is legal, eventhough it masks pain!
============================================
I am opposed to the use of bute or lasix on raceday. I am opposed to all drugs on race day. Both in the horse and the rider.
Only the bettors have a need for drugs <G>.
=============================================

To think trainers are cheating just because they have had a horse test positive does not mean they are cheaters, often it simply means the medication the horse needs did not clear out in time.
=============================================
I am talking about the repeat offenses, over and over again. At what point do we move past "Ooops!" and get the "Hmmmmm?"
To suggest that there are not trainers out there who cheat and will continue to cheat is naive. Drugs, electricity, illegal shoes, you name it.
=============================================
.

Mt 2cents...the game has to be focused on the bettors, not the owners or trainers or jockeys. As a bettor, I demand a clean sport and if the trainers can't run their outfits cleanly,a dn according to the rules 99.99+% of the time, then I say ban them.
andicap, I agree that first time offenders should not be banned for lifetime, but at some point, we are dealing with a cheater, and then I say, -OUT!

[GameTheory]

I basically agree with Tom that we should not have tolerance for repeat offenders. The thing that bothers me is that the people in charge of making the rules, doing the testing, etc. are a bunch of morons.

It is not like we have a bunch of incredibly competent good guys valiantly trying to rid the sport of the dirty cheaters. The rules regarding drugs and the testing procedures are totally idiotic. With most of these cases, I find it very hard to tell who is really at fault...

[PaceAdvantage]

karl,

Ooops...my bad...I had forgotten that you had posted this already....


==PA

[Observer]

Originally posted by Tom
To suggest that there are not trainers out there who cheat and will continue to cheat is naive.

I did not (or didn't mean to) suggest that there are no trainers trying to cheat in this game .. my point was simply that we shouldn't be suspicious of every single trainer who has a horse test positive for something along the way. There are rotten crooks in all walks of life, but that doesn't mean what could just be an honest mistake should be held against a person or blown out of proportion. I was merely providing a look from the flip-side since everyone seemed so quick to pass judgement on trainers who have a horse test positive.