BC Changes for the Future

[OTM Al]

Now that ESPN has this event for the next 10 years and the BC people are talking about changing the purse structure, I was wondering what everyone thought might be productive changes to the format. This can be anything from changing entry structure to chaning races. For me, the thing I would love to see would be an additional 2 races:

2yo Turf, 1/16 m. Just one race for boys and girls. They generally aren't so different in ability at this point as 2yos anyway. This would give a chance for up and coming US turfers to shine as well as attracting some solid foreigners, who now wouldn't be forced to run on dirt.

3U Turf, 2m or more. A race for stayers. This is big everywhere else in the world and if this is to truly be a world championship meet it should be included. Go find a replay of this year's Melbourne Cup and tell me races for stayers aren't exciting too. This would also get plenty of foreigners in as well as reintroducing this kind of race to the US. Having this race and a few BC sponsored races for stayers during the year might get some attention back to distance running in the states.

I'm not much of a fan of adding a turf sprint or dirt mile, though I suppose arguements could be made for them as well. I would like to see non-nominated horses be able to qualify by winning BC sponsored races. Something like they don't get the extra BC money, as they don't now either, but win one and only have to pay half nom fee and win two and no nom fee or something along those lines. If the purses go up, so will the nom fees, which will make it even more difficult for non-nominated stars to run.

[cj]

I'd be all for a dirt mile. It seems to me that great milers make the best sires these days.

Turf sprint, no way. Turf for 2yos, no way at all, although if you want to get more foreign horses, that would do the trick.

[Valuist]

I'd have to think either a mile or 1 1/16 miles on the dirt would be the logical race to add. Maybe a 2YO sprint race on dirt.

How about a 4 furlong $150,000 race for the undercard?

[twindouble]

How about a race for the little guys, a million dollar purce at 6 1/2 or 7 f. horses that have nerver run for more than $25,000 claiming and no less than $10,000. We can name it The B.C Players appreciation race. :)

[TravisVOX]

A dirt mile? It'd do an awesome job of taking away from the Classic...terrible idea. I think, if anything, maybe a filly and mare sprint. The current structure is okay I feel though.

ESPN is talking more about a marketing scheme will all their networks... this years cup, though successful, lacked an aggressive marketing campaign. I'm anxious for a much improved product next year.

[cj]

I don't really think a million dollar (million and a half maybe) race at a mile is going to take much away from the Classic. As it is now, a lot of Euros already pass the cheaper turf to try an unknown surface for more money.

I don't see a single horse in this year's classic that would have even considered running in the mile.

[ryesteve]

A mile race seems like a very logical idea, but if there'd been such a race this year, who would we have seen in it? I'm concerned that it'd end up with a watered-down field, as well as watering down the Sprint (we've seen plenty of 7f-1m specialists do well in that race over the years)

The first thought that came to my mind was why not let the BC Steeplechase be part of the big day?

[andicap]

They ought to rethink the timing -- i know it's geared toward end of the year awards and everything and late in the year is critical for giving 3 yr olds a chance. But there are some valid reasons for moving the races

-- Competition -- One reason for the lousy ratings is BC goes right up against college football. Not only for viewer's eyeballs but for media space as well. Also it's NFL season, the World Series is ending, NHL and NBA just starting. Too much other major sports vying for the media and public's attention.
As a "minor" sport horse racing needs to find a time when it can have the media hype and public attention to itself.
That's why the Derby is on such a good date. Early in baseball. No football. NBA playoffs just starting.

-- Health of horses -- By October some horses are worn down after their season. Nice to see them run when they are a bit fresher.

-- Weather -- End of October, usually pretty good weather people are out doing fall-type stuff. How about holding it when the weather is colder and people are looking to stay inside.

Holding the race in mid-December wouldn't deal with the health issue -- although it might let horses hurt earlier in the year get better. Afleet Alex might have been able to run if it were held in Dec. But it would be colder outside in most parts and you wouldn't have college football (other than a few minor bowls possibly) to deal with.
NBA and NHL are in their mid-season doldrums and there's no baseball. The NFL remains a competition but at least the playoffs haven't begun.

February after the Super Bowl would be good-- So you wouldn't hold the BC in the cold-weather cities. Big deal. You're holding the event for television anyway not for the live audience.

But its probably unrealistic due to the breeding issues involved and issues relating to getting juveniles ready for the Derby. Trainers wouldn't want their charges to peak in February when the Derby is only 3 months away.
But the 3 yr olds of the year before would be even stronger and more competitive and the new juveniles would be more experienced and better suited to get the distance.

[cj]

Why not run it in May the week before the Derby? NASCAR runs their big race in the beginning of the year, and they seem to be doing OK. Just a thought, didn't put too much brain power on this one, mine is limited!

[PaceAdvantage]

Aren't BC ratings affected by the fact that lots of potential viewers are at a simulcast facility betting and watching?

[TOOZ]

Pick 4 prep races for each category at the major tracks accross the country. You want to run in the Breeder's Cup, you have to run in one of the preps. Beats this guessing game the foreign horses, at least you would see them up close and personal for one race in this country. Think how good racing would be the 6 weeks before the Breeder's cup.

[ryesteve]

Running it in February or May isn't really practical if they want to continue to position it as "the Thoroughbred Championships". No sport conducts their championship at the beginning of the season.

[cj]

Running it in February or May isn't really practical if they want to continue to position it as "the Thoroughbred Championships". No sport conducts their championship at the beginning of the season.

That is part of the point, racing doesn't really have a season. Doesn't the Super Bowl get played in the next calendar year from the rest of the season? Probably not practical, but Andy is right, the BC gets lost in the shuffle in its current slot. August wouldn't be a bad idea either, just run it at Saratoga or Delmar every year :)

[Valuist]

A mile would definitely fill. It would probably be mostly the Grade 2 and Grade 3 type horses who are hard hitters but struggle when they go up against the Saint Liams of the world. Horses like Presidentialaffair and Lord of the Game come to mind. Maybe Tap Day and The Daddy also.

[cj]

A mile would definitely fill. It would probably be mostly the Grade 2 and Grade 3 type horses who are hard hitters but struggle when they go up against the Saint Liams of the world. Horses like Presidentialaffair and Lord of the Game come to mind. Maybe Tap Day and The Daddy also.

I was thinking more along the lines of Congaree in the past, Roman Ruler this year. Peace Rules was no Classic horse, so they ran him in the Mile on turf. I think you would get better than G2/3 horses. Midas Eyes, Aldebaren, and Swept Overboard were all top horses that might have preferred a mile over 6f.

[andicap]

Aren't BC ratings affected by the fact that lots of potential viewers are at a simulcast facility betting and watching?

maybe a tenth of a point or so -- the household rating has been dropping.
one-tenth of a ratings point (diffrence between 2.0 and 2.1) is 180,000 households. How many people do you think are watching the BC outside the home?
To make a HUGE differene, say a single ratings point, then men representing 1.8 million homes would have to be watching at a simulcast/track etc.

Doesn't seem to affect the Kentucky Derby ratings and the other TC races.

Other sports have similar issues -- to a lesser extent -- with people watching at bars, friends homes, college campuses (not wired by Nielsen)

[ryesteve]

A mile would definitely fill. It would probably be mostly the Grade 2 and Grade 3 type horses who are hard hitters but struggle when they go up against the Saint Liams of the world. Horses like Presidentialaffair and Lord of the Game come to mind. Maybe Tap Day and The Daddy also.
The BC supporting card already has a race or two like this. I'm not sure there's a need to inflate the purse and add the "Breeder's Cup" tag to it.

[ryesteve]

That is part of the point, racing doesn't really have a season.
I would disagree. The BC deterimines most of the Eclipse Awards, and given that many of those awards are based on age, I'd say the season ends no later than December 31st. It wouldn't make sense to have a BC 3yo race in February determine the champion 2yo for the previous year.

[PaceAdvantage]

Considering the Breeders' Cup appeals MOST to established fans of the sport, I would think there would be lots of folks outside the home watching at a simulcast facility, as that is the only place to get down some action, unless you have an internet or phone betting account....and let's face it, as much as we'd like to think there are lots of us out there, internet betting on horse racing isn't all that big, even now.

So, I would argue that there are more folks than we might realize watching outside the home, who would be watching inside the home if they WERE home, and not out wagering on the races....

The same really doesn't apply to other sports, if only because the fan base is much wider in sports such as baseball and football....you'll always have tons of folks sitting at home watching football on a Sunday, whether they bet on the game or not.

[andicap]

PA, your reasoning doesn't make sense.

The Derby gets many millions more viewers and yes, it's a shorter telecast, but no part of the BC gets many viewers.
I tell you the number of people watching outside the home may affect the ratings by one or two-tenths of a point, from a 2.0 to a 2.2. No big deal.

The Breeder's Cup is racing's opportunity to EXPAND its pool of fans. There are millions of "soft-core" racing fans, people who attend the track once a year or watch the Derby, etc., who do not watch the Breeders Cup. That is a fertile audience for the Breeders Cup if they would ever learn how to market anything.
(Case in point, the absolute failure to exploit the release of the movie "Dreamer" in October.)

As long as people want to just reach the hard-core types racing will stagnate adn eventually go away. There are few opportunities to expand the base and the BC is one of them, especially with ESPN marketing the event to sports fans who might discover the telecast.

[Snow Chief]

I think a dirt mile would suck horses away from the classic and the sprint, and to say they wouldn't is completely delusional. Sure it is fun to think of ways to tweek the Breeder's Cup, but remeber the goal is clear championship races, not grade 2s sucking money away from the rest.

Of course, like everyone else i am only human and if i were in control i would push the BC back two or three weeks. the Breeder's Cup has done a lot of ggreat things for the sport, but there are some bad things. It has ruined a lot of great fall meets around the country (Laurel, Hollywood) and severely weakened others (Belmont, OSA). These meets were all once premiere and some have had their races completely gutted thanks to the BC (Laurel lost three grade 1's International, the Laurel Futurity and Selima).

My other change would be to increase the distance of the classic to 1.5 miles or longer. I know this sounds crazy, but the general consensus is the breed is being ruined by turning more and more toward speed. De facto American classic distance is a mile and an eighth now. if someone doesn't lengthen races and encourage breeding sturdier horses who will? It also makes sence to have the breeders cup do it because it is the grand finale and the distances traditionally get longer with the fall calendar. it used to cumulate with the JC Gold Cup at 2 miles when we had horses who ran more than 5 times in a season. it would encourage other tracks to lengthen their races to allow horses to work up to the classic.

[Wiley]

I don't know about changing the timing of the BC races but I do see the problem with the lack of draw to the event due to many other sporting events taking place this time of year. To me the only other feasibly time would be the mentioned late August timing - Saratoga and Delmar would be great spots. If you go early in the year you pretty much exclude the 2 year olds and late developing 3 year olds which could not compete with older horses at that time of year so special races would have to be carded for them plus as mentioned this would screw up the year end award schedule.

I think the races carded now pretty much fit the bill for most horses. I am against a mile dirt race because I like the challenge of where to place a horse - think of Precisionist who ran credible one year in the Classic, after winning the Sprint the year before. This to me separates a good horse from a great horse by showing it's versatility.

I hope ESPN keys into the hardcore bettor, emphasize betting as the backbone of racing, which it is. Highlight the handicappers, bring on celebrity bettors, not celebrities per se but people that have won say that year's big handicapping contest or the person that hit one of the pick six's on BC day to play real money like $1000 seed money, show their bets, let them tell why they played it and keep a running total. Have a competition between bettors on the broadcast - get Crist or Beyer or other popular handicappers to go against the above mentioned players - or form teams. I just don't think the human interest stories bring in new people that are going to become players, one or two are fine but over the years NBC went overboard on this.

No Kenny Mayne, Moss is decent and maybe Jay Privman or the other California guy - don't know his name. Thank goodness no more Mike Battaglia, that guy is the most unimaginative bettor I have ever seen, every race he is as predictable as the setting sun, if he bets he must be horribly in the red, but my guess is he is not a bettor.

[PaceAdvantage]

PA, your reasoning doesn't make sense.

The Derby gets many millions more viewers and yes, it's a shorter telecast, but no part of the BC gets many viewers.
I tell you the number of people watching outside the home may affect the ratings by one or two-tenths of a point, from a 2.0 to a 2.2. No big deal.

I beg to differ. The Kentucky Derby is an AMERICAN sporting EVENT. The BC is simply a thoroughbred racing event. Office pools are created around the Derby. There is a much broader base of viewers for the Kentucky Derby. Lots more "casual" fans of racing are into the Derby. For them, it's a must watch.

This doesn't apply to the BC. The BC is still a relatively new event (when compared to the Triple Crown events, especially the Derby), with a much narrower base of appeal.

I could very well be off on my thoughts here, but I wouldn't characterize it as not making sense. It makes sense to me....LOL

[twindouble]

Andicap;

I've never read any in depth studies on the ecomics of horse racing but I do have a few questions.

First, how is it mediocre so-called grade 1 horses can run for 1, 2,3, and 4, million dollar purces today where as in other classes purses haven't haven't gone up proportionately?

Second, what's the hold up in bringing American racing to other countries?

Third, what created the necessity to take money from slots to subsidize purces?

Forth, why can't a jock that got seriously injured, will never ride again and not have enough insurance to cover his medical bills or afford a decent living?

Fifth, Are their more horse players today than there was 20 or 30 years ago, if not why?

Sixth, Are there more horseman today than, 20 or 30 years ago, if not why?

7th, Breeding; What percentage of horseman can afford the cream of the crop at the sales, compared to 20 or 30 years ago?

8th Adjusted for inflation, what does it take to run a race track today? Also, adjusted for inflation, should horse players of today be wagering $20 per ticket rather than $2.00? Also, adjusted for inflation, should a jock be getting $300 per mount plus a greater % of the purce?

9th Will consolidation of tracks and the market as a whole be good for racing knowing there will be less tracks run by a two or three conglomerates and the whales will get 10 to 15 % rebates and we qet peanuts? Plus we get relegated a seat or stand and watch a TV monitor along with toilet paper that will cut your fanny. :eek:

Oh yes, no smoking allowed, just in the parking lot 8 rows back. The rich will have their own ventilated smoking booth in the gold club house being waited on hand an foot along with free wine and food.

Thanks,

T.D.

[sparkywowo]

One of the ideas I like was suggested by D. Wayne Lukas: The Breeder's Cup should alternate between Churchill Downs and Belmont Park. When the Cup is held at Churchill the Classic would be 1 1/4 miles, and when it is held at Belmont the Classic would be 1 1/2 miles.

I don't like the Juvenile Races, and would cut both back to 1 mile (1 turn at Belmont and Churchill).

I like the BC Sprint at 6 f. And, I would opt for more divisions, The Dash at 5 f, The Sprint at 6 f, and The Long Sprint at 7 f (can't think of a catchy name).

[Bubbles]

I think the F + M Sprint is a novel idea. There have been only a few ladies (read: Safely Kept, Xtra Heat, etc.) who can hang with the fastest male sprinters in the world.

While we're on the topic of sprinting, here's a thought: Why not make the Sprint 7 furlongs? It'd attract a lot of top horses that can't get 6 or 10 furlongs, and it'd make the thought of a mile BC race null and void. Bump up the Sprint purse to 2 million, and then see what kind of horses fill the field, everyone will be pleasantly surprised. For those saying that'd never work, let me bring something to your attention: Some big-level Sprint preps, like the Forego at Saratoga, are contested at 7f, it's not like it'd be anything new for G1-calibur horses.

[garyoz]

One of the ideas I like was suggested by D. Wayne Lukas: The Breeder's Cup should alternate between Churchill Downs and Belmont Park. When the Cup is held at Churchill the Classic would be 1 1/4 miles, and when it is held at Belmont the Classic would be 1 1/2 miles.



Better yet, have it at Belmont every year

[Valuist]

If you're going to have it in one spot, have it at Churchill. Geographically, its pretty much in the middle. Kentucky, not California or New York, is the horse racing capital of the world. And you can run races at normal distances, like 1 1/16 miles around 2 turns and 1 1/4 miles with 2 turns, not starting part way on a turn. Climate wise, its cool there this time of year so the Euros will be enticed to come over. I do think they should alternate, but if they went to one track, it should be Churchill.

[DrugSalvastore]

I know some people are really going to hate this idea....but I would love to see a $500K starter allowance race added to the Breeders Cup Card.

All horses who started for a claiming tag of $35,000 or less during the season are elidigble. I would make the race 7 furlongs (or maybe 1 mile) on dirt---and give fillies a big break in weight (like 7 pounds.)

This race would be a SUPER neat race!! You know you will get a flood of entries, and you get to take the 14 best horses.

The distance will make it very fascinating---and shouldn't deter any sprint or route specialists from entering...the big weight break will help not deter the connections of any filly or mare from running. You are almost assured of getting the 14 best possible former claimers in the land---and the race will always be the best betting race on the card.

You give the winner of the race an eclipse award for Outstanding Claimer. It will be a huge hit in my opinion!!! You also might get a few more owners who can't afford buying a lot of young horses involved in owning and the claiming game. And the fans get another bang up betting race.

[rokitman]

People need to be able to bet on the Breeders' Cup. In an easy , efficient manner that they can do at the Quickie Mart, like they do with lotteries. No sign-ups with Social Security numbers and credit cards or any other complications. Without betting on the races, I don't expect anybody to ever give much of a sh!t. Why should they? Because Garrett Gomez was in jail for a couple of days a couple of years ago? Whoop-de-fockin-do. They can watch Nascar if they want to watch something running around in circles. And they are. Why should they get out of their rut for one fleeting day of horses running around in circles? Because Jerry Bailey might retire? Yawn. If I wasn't betting, I wouldn't be watching. And if I didn't have an account, I wouldn't open one for one day floating by on the busy sports schedule.

The Quickie Mart Breeders' Cup. You heard it here first at PaceAdvantage.com.

[BillW]

The Quickie Mart Breeders' Cup. You heard it here first at PaceAdvantage.com.

Not too many state gov'ts, who have a monopoly on the lottery will go for this without a heavy chunk of the action.

[Geekyguy]

My suggestions:

1. Open the card with the BC jump race. It's just a nice touch, and the thing I love most about Saratoga (middle of the week -- hey, let's have a JUMP race!).

2. The starter cap is a good idea, but I'd make it a $1 million race for horses who have started TWICE for a claiming price of $50,000 or less in their careers, and run it at 12 furlongs.

3. Add a race called the "Breeders' Cup Debutante." Make it a seven-furlong race for 2yo FIRST-TIME STARTERS with a purse of $1 million. This could become the first step along the road to the Triple Crown, and wouldn't require horses to have dual peaks. It would also create two Derby prospects on the same card and set up for a rematch battle for the Eclipse award.

4. Use the host track announcer, whoever that may be. The announcer is as much a part of the track's history as the track himself. Just make sure never to hold the BC at a track where Mike Battaglia is working.

5. Add a 10-cent pick-8 and promote it through the lottery terminals. Set it up so that any machine that can spit out PowerBall tickets can handle this bet, and offer computer-generated picks based on the program morning lines.

[schweitz]

Geekyguy---number 5 is an excellent idea---that would draw some interest from newbys and possibly generate some new horseplayers after spending the day watching the Breeder's Cup races to see how their pick-8 did.

[rokitman]

Not too many state gov'ts, who have a monopoly on the lottery will go for this without a heavy chunk of the action.


Yup. Give it to them. Or get a 1.7 rating, a 4 share and fade into the noise of our culture one tenth at a time.

[banacek]

Better yet, have it at Belmont every year

I believe it is also called the World Thoroughbred Championships - still Breeders Cup to me. But it does attract the best horses in the world. Should it not move around - even to other countries occasionally. It's been to Canada - probably hard to have the whole thing in the U.K., but you could have one or two of the the turf races there one year and the rest in the U.S. Might be interesting.And could build interest.

[Geekyguy]

Geekyguy---number 5 is an excellent idea---that would draw some interest from newbys and possibly generate some new horseplayers after spending the day watching the Breeder's Cup races to see how their pick-8 did.

Well, I remember when War Emblem was going for the Triple Crown at Belmont and they said that he was good marketing for the sport.

I thought Sarava's $142.00 win payoff was a pretty damn good hook as well.

The best market for horseplayers right now is the "Pinnacle" market: guys who are stuck at the computer all day on the weekends following football and basketball, and want something quick to bet their money on that they can enjoy. Sports bettors don't like horses because they think it's too complicated, fixed, and that the takeout is too high. Even then they still don't mind betting the big races.

[banacek]

Not too many state gov'ts, who have a monopoly on the lottery will go for this without a heavy chunk of the action.

I can still remember the Irish Sweeps tickets my parents would buy when I was a kid.

How about a good old fashioned sweepstake.The winners would each come to the track and each would draw a horse's name. The winner got $100,000 or something if their horse won. Could do a killer one on the Breeders Cup. Have a sweepstake on each race.

I don't know - just seems more exciting than picking 6 numbers from 1 to 49.

[rokitman]

Hey Geeky, Number 5 is a good idea! Obviously, I didn't read all of your post before I posted mine! :D

[Valuist]

Have a race for 5YOs. Quite a few good 3YOs hang around for their 4YO year. But after that, its usually off to the breeding shed. Maybe this would help entice a few more to stay in training.

[twindouble]

I'll try to answer my own questions;

Here we are talking about adding another BC race for what? Another million dollars or two for the rich? Screw them, add a race like I said for claimers, they make up the bulk of racing and run untill they can't run no more or are put to sleep on the track. Seems like a fitting thing to do.

Why haven't other classes of horses purces gone up proportionately to BC and other graded stake races? Simple, it's call trickle down economics, the rich get richer and poor get poorer. It's red lining the smaller barns and tracks so outfits like Magna can pounce on them when the time is right and guys like Gill that will snach your horse when things get tight.

Horseman can't afford the cream of the crop because the rich have put them out of their reach, no different than all the antiques and famous art along with historic centuries old antiquities. They swallow up everything of any value to our culture and others through out the world. Some you need a special permit to see and you or I wouldn't qualify. That's right we don't get to see the best run beyond their early successes.

When it comes to the jock that got paralyzed at Mountaineer Birzer, he's in the same position as most Americans when it comes to health insurance, the Jockeys Club failed him like the medical industry has failing us. If you can't afford some sort of catastrophic health insurance your doomed if something unforseen happens.

I would say there's less hard core horse players than there was 30 years ago, can't support that with any stats but it's just my gut feeling when I go to OTB or to a track, most are as old as I am, plus I've lost many buddies. Same goes for horsemen.

No one here or anywhere else factors in inflation when it comes to where we are today in this game. It eats at everything related to playing the horses and running a track. It plays a big part in my third paragraph, the rich drive inflation.

#9 speaks for it's self, prior post.

[cj]

If you run a race for claimers, it will be Dutrow against Lake against Catalano against Norman etc, etc. Not interested in that really.

Interesting to see a race at Delaware, Lake claimed Draw Play off Dutrow in New York for 16k, ran him back for 16k, he did nothing as expected by me at least.

[twindouble]

If you run a race for claimers, it will be Dutrow against Lake against Catalano against Norman etc, etc. Not interested in that really.

Interesting to see a race at Delaware, Lake claimed Draw Play off Dutrow in New York for 16k, ran him back for 16k, he did nothing as expected by me at least.

Good point on the trainers, could get around that by putting a ceiling on trainers earnings in the conditons. Like I said, let the little guy have a shot at a big payoff. Pipe dream, I know.

[Geekyguy]

If you run a race for claimers, it will be Dutrow against Lake against Catalano against Norman etc, etc. Not interested in that really.

Lake has never done that well in The Claiming Crown, however. I think this type of race wouldn't favor the top trainers because their stock would be used up long before their eligibility expires. A BC Starter Cap would more likely favor the genuinely improved horse who just happened to run for a tag, like Charismatic.

[garyoz]

A BC Starter Cap would more likely favor the genuinely improved horse who just happened to run for a tag, like Charismatic.

Charismatic is a very rare event, where you have a horse that is a genuine stakes horse who ran for a tag. John Henry is another I can think of. But what is more likely to happen is Shifty Shiek. He is the first plater that I can think of who moved from running for that tag up to winning a stakes race through what appeared to be "magic." Good 'ol Oscar Barrera Jr.

In additional I don't think conditioned races of this type belong in the BC. I think the race menu is near perfect as it is currently configured. I have more problems with having it at a venue like Lone Star. Where the Euros don't come over, the tight turns on the turf course determine the outcome, and the main track speed biased and not conducive to big fields.

[Tom]

Better yet, have it at Belmont every year

ARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!

Just say NO to Belmont!
Aqueduct, great!
Saratoga - Hmmmmmmm.

[rastajenk]

Yeah, why not Saratoga? When Gulfstream has had it, don't they just do a three-day mini-meet? Why couldn't the Toga?

[cj]

I have no problem with Belmont, but the Classic should be 1 1/2 miles when it is there.

[Geekyguy]

Yeah, why not Saratoga? When Gulfstream has had it, don't they just do a three-day mini-meet? Why couldn't the Toga?

Does Saratoga have a heating system?

[rokitman]

They need to change the name of the Breeders' Cup to the Fall Kentucky Derbys.

I've found that the people I have known that play the Derby and nothing else all year do not have any idea that it is a 3YO race. In fact, when I informed one friend of mine of that fact he was all disappointed because he thought all horses were eligible-like a championship race.

[Valuist]

If you are going to run the Classic at Belmont, run it at 1 1/8 miles, not 1 1/12 miles which is totally antiquated nowadays.

[andicap]

If you are going to run the Classic at Belmont, run it at 1 1/8 miles, not 1 1/12 miles which is totally antiquated nowadays.

Sorry to correct you but you're wrong.
it's 10f, just like the Derby not 12f as you suggest.

A perfect, Classic distance. 9f would cheapen it. Even horses bred for 7f or a mile can get 9f. But not 10f. (most times.)

[Valuist]

I'm aware its run at 1 1/4 miles but it was suggested earlier that it should be run at 1 1/2 miles, I assume because it would be 2 turns and not starting on a turn, like it does when they run 1 1/4 miles there now. If the 1 1/4 starting on the turn was taken out of the equation, 1 1/8 miles around one turn would make more sense, IMO.

[twindouble]

Sorry to correct you but you're wrong.
it's 10f, just like the Derby not 12f as you suggest.

A perfect, Classic distance. 9f would cheapen it. Even horses bred for 7f or a mile can get 9f. But not 10f. (most times.)

andicap;

I'm sure Valuist war refering to cj's idea of a mile 1/2 race. Personally, I'd like to see more route races at every track.

Horse racing is a tough sell to begin with, sprints are over to quick, then you sit out 20 min inbetween races or stand in lines. Lines are a big turn off in our society, other sports there's action all the time. Back when I was a kid every hollywood hero rode a horse, now they fly space ships, blow something up, mow people down with an AK 47 or masturbate while singing. Back then the gift of any kids dream was getting a horse, now it's a play station killing every thing in sight including cops.

The industry has to bring the horse back into our culture, not many people can afford the land required to stable one, let alone a few. The media is the only place where they can achieve that, I don't care how many million dollar races they run each year. The idea that they can turn racing into a computerized investment vehicle or Vages type operation is a black eye to a sport that historically has been just the opposite. Good Luck!

T.D.

[Snow Chief]

it definitely should be a 1 1/2 miles at Baelmont. the start on that turn is ridiculous, it would bring more acction in front of the fans, and may do something to reverse the trend of a weakening breed. besides how many times can we see these horses run the same distance? every handicap race is now a mile and eighth, it might as well be harness racing

[Valuist]

I think you answered your own question. Since they never run at 1 1/2 miles, why should they make the centerpiece of the BC at an unknown distance. Don't compare it to the Derby because those are 3YOs trying a new distance. There's a reason why we don't run races at 1 1/2 miles on the dirt nowadays. Horses aren't bred for it.

[ryesteve]

There's a reason why we don't run races at 1 1/2 miles on the dirt nowadays. Horses aren't bred for it.
I think that's the reason why some people think this would be a GOOD idea.

[PaceAdvantage]

An update on the BC TV Ratings:

Breeders' Cup TV Ratings Rise Slightly (http://bc.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=30877)
National television ratings for NBC's telecast of the Oct. 29 Breeders' Cup World Thoroughbred Championships from Belmont Park in New York increased slightly from last year's numbers. Blood-Horse (http://bc.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=30877)

[JohnGalt1]

After reading all the comments:

Adding a race for claiming horses is a Claiming Crown race. Claiming Crown races are held before the Del Mar and Saratoga meets so they get a week's worth of publicity before those major meets.

Adding a race might be too much for the average fan. My favorite day of racing is the Breeder's Cup. I wish there was 12 races.

With about 50-60% having cable or satelite service will the Breeder's Cup draw as many viewers/betters. I make my bets on Friday and watch Saturday on my couch.

The change I would make is for whoever is televising it to post all payoffs. Not just wps ex tri, and supers. This year I won 3 pick 3's and had to go to Equibase a few hours later to see what they paid. Plus NBC posted what payoffs they ran for 2.6 seconds :)

I just watched wire to wire on ESPN2, which I had taped, and they also didn't show any priced except what NBC did.

Yes horse racing is about beautiful animals running around a track, but isn't it the betters that keep horse racing going?