Breeders' Cup Tix

[highnote]

FYI...

Seems like getting a ticket to this Saturday's BC at Belmont should be no problem. The largest crowd for a Belmont BC is about 51,000+. The place holds 80,000.

[fouroneone]

and with $10 general, $25 club, i dont think people will exactly be flocking out to Elmont this weekend.

[highnote]

and with $10 general, $25 club, i dont think people will exactly be flocking out to Elmont this weekend.


You're right. It is mostly an industry event anyway. If you've ever seen the seating chart for Belmont for the BC you'd see that almost all the good seats are reserved. The rest of the good seats are outrageously priced.

I still have a bad taste in my mouth from Belmont since the time I had to pay for parking and admission to go to the box office and try to buy Belmont Stakes tickets. I called before I left the house and they had tickets available. I got there and they said they were sold out. Of course, I still had to pay parking and admission to find out that they were sold out.

Very poor planning. The business models the American racetracks follow are antiquated. No wonder they are in decline.

[Ron]

I read something that NYRA is giving free entry admission if you do something trivial like sign up for it. There are still seats available. Unfortunately a lot has happened in the country since, say, the promise of last Spring.

[highnote]

The Breeders' Cup is selling a live feed of the races and commentary to international customers. It's called International pay-per-view of the Breeders' Cup Simulcast Show. It costs $9.00.

I wonder how many they will sell? Wouldn't they generate more handle if they paid the network that is producing the show a license fee for rights to broadcast it for free?

Or maybe they figure a show like this won't generate much extra handle, so it is not worth the risk of licensing it.

Interesting concept, though. Hope it works for them.

[highnote]

I just found the Belmont seating chart for the BC races. It wasn't on the Belmont website -- it was on the BC site. That's almost logical.

Anyway, clubhouse admission is 25 bucks. Apron box seats on the clubhouse side are 75 bucks.

I bought a clubhouse apron tickets for the Belmont stakes. Total ripoff. Nobody, and I mean nobody sat in them. Terrible seats. We could have paid general clubhouse admission and sat on a bench next to the rail just beyond the finish line for 100 bucks less. Buyer beware.

My suggestion is to spend 25 bucks on clubhouse admission and then make yourself at home in an empty Apron seat -- or a clubhouse bench seat next to the rail just beyond the finish line.

I suppose there is a chance they'll remove all the benches -- since this is such a high profile event. If so, you can always upgrade your ticket to a reserved seat at the box office. I'm sure there will be plenty available.

[PaceAdvantage]

I just found the Belmont seating chart for the BC races. It wasn't on the Belmont website -- it was on the BC site. That's almost logical.

Why isn't it logical? NYRA is essentially renting Belmont to the BC folks for the day. It's like that at every track that hosts a BC. BC people run the show in many (or most) aspects of the operation.

[highnote]

Why isn't it logical? NYRA is essentially renting Belmont to the BC folks for the day. It's like that at every track that hosts a BC. BC people run the show in many (or most) aspects of the operation.

I didn't say it was illogical. I just figured that if it was at Belmont, NYRA would have the seating chart. Then it dawned on me that I should maybe check the BC site. And there it was. Why wouldn't NYRA have it on their site. Is it illogical that they wouldn't?

NYRA does a lot of things that defy logic.

Is it logical that NYRA takes wagers from some rebate shops and not others? No, but they do. Is it logical that they don't advertise the fact that they still take wagers from rebate shops. Yes. But that's a story for a different thread.

[PaceAdvantage]

I didn't say it was illogical. I just figured that if it was at Belmont, NYRA would have the seating chart.

There is no seating chart for Belmont on the NYRA website? That's odd. I know there is always one available when I'm looking at Belmont Stakes seating....

Is it logical that NYRA takes wagers from some rebate shops and not others? No, but they do. Is it logical that they don't advertise the fact that they still take wagers from rebate shops. Yes. But that's a story for a different thread.

Address the question from both sides. First you must address WHY they decided to cut off certain rebate shops. What were the reasons given? Do these reasons apply to ALL rebate shops? If not, then you have your answer.

[highnote]

There is no seating chart for Belmont on the NYRA website? That's odd. I know there is always one available when I'm looking at Belmont Stakes seating....

I always saw the chart for Belmont Stakes, too. Maybe there is one for the BC, but I couldn't find it anywhere I looked. That doesn't mean it isn't there. I just couldn't find a seating chart of the host track for the second biggest racing event of the year.

Actually, this is pretty petty. I found the seating chart. So no big deal.


Address the question from both sides. First you must address WHY they decided to cut off certain rebate shops. What were the reasons given? Do these reasons apply to ALL rebate shops? If not, then you have your answer.

From what I've heard and read, the reasons do not apply to all rebate shops. There were some rebate shops implicated in the Uvari case. I think those were cut off. However, others were cut off, too, even though they were not implicated in the case. Then I heard that all rebate shops were cutoff from NYRA. Now I hear that NOT all rebate shops are cut off from NYRA.

The policy towards rebate shops seems incongruent.

But what the hell do I care... I can't even bet on racing over the internet. So I won't be betting this weekend. :(

[PaceAdvantage]

BTW, you are correct. There is a seating chart on the NYRA website, but it is for the Belmont stakes (seats are in the same place...i think...LOL, but the prices are far different).

[highnote]

I just saw on TV a shot of the Apron seats near the rail and just beyond the finish line. As predicted, they are nearly empty.

The best bet today was to buy a $25 clubhouse general admission ticket and then sit in almost any Apron reserved seat that you would want.

The Belmont Stakes was the same way. Those seats aren't worth money. For $25 they might be worth in. For $65 or up -- definately not worth it.

That said... I wish I was at the track today. This is one of my favorite days of racing. KY Derby is still the best. But BC is close to top.

[weegee]

We bought handicapping desk-seats in the clubhouse, first floor, for $40 and it was the best thing we could have done. It was relatively warm, easy access to the apron and paddock, and each one has its own TV and betting machine for use with the NYRA cards (which I had to learn to use in a hurry). It was a great day and a good turnout considering the cool weather.

[The Hawk]

Not for anything, having just returned from the BC, I have to say that Belmont Park is an absolute pit, irregardless of my opinion of the races there throughout the year.

It's nothing short of depressing, and this was with several years notice that a "major event" was to be held there. From the rusting lighting fixtures to the 70's decor (including the "retro" signs over each betting window), to the escalators that are out of service to the TV's that are missing from fixtures to the stale pretzels to the $7 beers to the filthy bathrooms, that place is an absolute disgrace.

I've only been there about a half dozen times in my life despite living about 45 minutes away and now I know why. Why the interior of this track isn't upgraded, at the very least for the premier day in American racing, is anyone's guess. And it's not about money. The place needs a little TLC -- a paint job, some basic cleaning, some light fixtures, etc. And this is from someone who supports the current management in place there.

For those of you who didn't make it: Be glad. But make sure you make it to the BC next year, when a decent racetrack hosts it. At least when you're betting at Churchill it doesn't feel like you're spending the day playing races from the Port Authority Bus Terminal, with action every 35 minutes.

[the little guy]

The BC was great, as usual, at Belmont today. It's truly the best place for the BC. It is the biggest, and can thus handle the crowd the best, and the courses are the fairest.

By the way......irregardless isn't a word.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

It's truly the best place for the BC.
I'm really upset that Churchill has not figured out a way to start the Derby on a turn.

[GameTheory]

By the way......irregardless isn't a word.Words get to be words because people use them. This one has been around long enough to be considered a word, like it or not. It is funny that most non-technical words start out with bad reputations from stuffy types who like to say, "That's not a word." Yet people keep on using them just the same, and words they become. Interesting thing, language.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/irregardless

[highnote]

By the way......irregardless isn't a word.

Sure it is. If enough people use it then it's a word. Is "ain't" not a word?

Maybe "ain't" ain't a word the Queen of England would use, but it's a word.


On another note:

I live 45 minutes from Belmont and have been there many times. Not only is it a pit. It is a big cavernous pit... only slightly better than the cavernous men's room better known as Aqueduct.

[toetoe]

Gently siding with tlg on this, and many thanks for the thread-careen into off-topic land. Irrespective of the brass tacks, it was getting dry.

[The Hawk]

The BC was great, as usual, at Belmont today. It's truly the best place for the BC. It is the biggest, and can thus handle the crowd the best, and the courses are the fairest.

By the way......irregardless isn't a word.

Oops, I forgot. It was in NY, so it had to be the best. NY has the best everything, including racing. Just ask the guys from NY. NY is the greatest city in the world, the city that never sleeps (which is really Vegas, but we're splitting hairs). Even the rats, which number in the millions in NY, apparenly have come to know it's the best place to live.

Is provincial a word?

[highnote]

I'm really upset that Churchill has not figured out a way to start the Derby on a turn.


Bwahahahaha :lol: I was thinking the same thing. One of the most important races of the year and it starts on a turn.

Why not have the BC Classic be a 12 furlong race when it's held at Belmont? Maybe more foreign horses would enter then. Germans have some of the best 12 furlong horses in the world right now.

If I had my way, the BC would have some races that are truly tests of stamina -- multiple 4 mile heats -- like they had in the old days.

[toetoe]

Empire State also breeding grounds of one Naughty New Yorker, a hanger of such magnitude that Linda Lovelace herself is drooling in heaven at the thought of him.
Shirocco won it fair and square, so unless we can restrict BC races to royally bred Phipps horses and fashionable European juggernauts, we should accept the winners and even toast them. Hey, I got a comma in there. Dat's delimit.

[highnote]

Shirocco won it fair and square

Shirocco was the high point of the day for me. Never underestimate Andre Fabre.

[PaceAdvantage]

I just saw on TV a shot of the Apron seats near the rail and just beyond the finish line. As predicted, they are nearly empty.

I was there. They weren't empty. If they were empty when you saw them, you probably got a shot of them between races, and the explanation there is that it was FREEZING outside, and lots of folks moved inside between races.

I thought those seats looked excellent. (I'm talking about the ones on the apron, not the temp seats set up on the second floor behind the glass....those looked horrible).

What was so wrong about the seats on the apron? They are right near the finish line, close to the rail.....they seemed like some of the best seats in the house....if it was warmer out, I would have wanted to sit there....

As for The Hawk's comments, NYRA is in penny pinching mode. They aren't going to spend money on paint when they are talking about solvency issues.

And as for your knock "if it's from NY, it has to be the best", well sir, you are just as guilty of the opposite. Your anti-NY racing bias is just as shallow.

[highnote]

I was there. They weren't empty. If they were empty when you saw them, you probably got a shot of them between races, and the explanation there is that it was FREEZING outside, and lots of folks moved inside between races.

You're probably right. I wasn't there. You were. They had apron seats for the Belmont Stakes and they were awful. They were beyond the finish line in the grass. The free bench seats that were to the left of the expensive apron seats were much better. NO ONE sat in the apron seats on Belmont Stakes day.

It sounds like they must've taken out the free benches and put the apron seats there instead.

[PaceAdvantage]

Well, I didn't get to see beyond the finish line, so I don't know if they had seats on the grass.

The seats I saw were on the apron, right in front of the rail, right before the finish line. They were individual seats, not bench seats. They were temporary, but they looked good to me.....

[highnote]

Well, I didn't get to see beyond the finish line, so I don't know if they had seats on the grass.

The seats I saw were on the apron, right in front of the rail, right before the finish line. They were individual seats, not bench seats. They were temporary, but they looked good to me.....


The seats I'm talking about were on the clubhouse side well beyond the finish line and on or near the grass by the hospitality tent -- clubhouse apron seats. Those were the empty ones. The hospitality tent was probably on the grass. And they probably removed the benches and put in apron seats.

I don't know for sure because I wasn't there. That's what I gleaned from the map and from what I saw on TV.

[The Hawk]

As for The Hawk's comments, NYRA is in penny pinching mode. They aren't going to spend money on paint when they are talking about solvency issues.


Now they can't afford paint?

How long have they known that they were going to host this year's Breeders' Cup. Four years? Three years? There were no such insolvency issues back then. The place looks like the BC knocked on the door on Friday and said, "Can we hold the Cup here tomorrow?" NYRA said, "Sure", hung up some banners, raised the prices of beer and opened the doors.

I went with a friend, a native New Yorker, who likes to play horses from home, and on our annual Florida, Preakness and KY Derby trips, and occasional Monmouth trips. He had NEVER been to Belmont. The first thing we came upon, after getting through the turnstiles, was a five-gallon barrell catching a streaming leak from the roof. It hasn't rained here since Tuesday. He said, "I always thought this was a nice track."

And as for your knock "if it's from NY, it has to be the best", well sir, you are just as guilty of the opposite. Your anti-NY racing bias is just as shallow.

Horsesh*t. I think NYRA's stance against the rebate shops and their low takeout rates are laudable efforts to aid the horseplayer, and I've posted that here in the past. I think Saratoga is one of the nicest racing facilities in this country. I've mentioned how much I admire Charlie Hayward. But you choose to focus on only my critcisms concerning NYRA, since you'll defend ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that NYRA does, including the indefensible. This weekend's criticism doesn't fall into the category of indefensible but your blind allegiance to NYRA ruins your credibility on these subjects, in my opinion.

[highnote]

Horsesh*t. I think NYRA's stance against the rebate shops and their low takeout rates are laudable efforts to aid the horseplayer

I think cutting off rebate shops was a big mistake. They could use the extra money that rebate shops provide -- maybe even buy a few gallons of paint.

In my opinion, rebate shop players are not necessarily great players. They just take longer to tap out. So all the money they add makes for juicy overlays.

[PaceAdvantage]

NYRA said, "Sure", hung up some banners, raised the prices of beer and opened the doors.

You say yourself that you've been to Belmont maybe 6 times in your life, and now you know they raised the price of beer just for the BC? I've been to Belmont 100x more than you, and I can say with certainty that they didn't raise the price of beer just for the BC. It's been that way for a while.

The first thing we came upon, after getting through the turnstiles, was a five-gallon barrell catching a streaming leak from the roof.

I guess it depends on which turnstile you come through. I came through the main turnstile, and the first thing I saw was a beautiful backyard park with a pond, the beautiful paddock with the famous statue of Secretariat, and a host of festivities going on to coincide with the big day. I take it you came in through the LIRR turnstiles, which is on the far west side of the track which is basically deserted, even on big days like the BC.

Horsesh*t. I think NYRA's stance against the rebate shops and their low takeout rates are laudable efforts to aid the horseplayer, and I've posted that here in the past. I think Saratoga is one of the nicest racing facilities in this country. I've mentioned how much I admire Charlie Hayward. But you choose to focus on only my critcisms concerning NYRA, since you'll defend ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that NYRA does, including the indefensible.

Horseshit right back at ya. I can't recall any post of yours that had anything positive to say about NYRA. And I'm curious why you say you admire Charlie Hayward. What has he done to earn this admiration from you? Reading your criticisms of NYRA, you'd think Hayward would be at the bottom of your list of people you most admire.....

[The Hawk]

You say yourself that you've been to Belmont maybe 6 times in your life, and now you know they raised the price of beer just for the BC? I've been to Belmont 100x more than you, and I can say with certainty that they didn't raise the price of beer just for the BC. It's been that way for a while.

Ok, if that's the case, I stand corrected. If a 12 oz. plastic bottle of beer is $7 everyday at Belmont, that's a travesty, but still, I'm dead wrong.

I guess it depends on which turnstile you come through. I came through the main turnstile, and the first thing I saw was a beautiful backyard park with a pond, the beautiful paddock with the famous statue of Secretariat, and a host of festivities going on to coincide with the big day. I take it you came in through the LIRR turnstiles, which is on the far west side of the track which is basically deserted, even on big days like the BC.

Yes, I did come off the LIRR, and I bet a large percentage of the people at the track that day did the same. What does that mean? That we deserve what we get, because we didn't drive in? I wasn't out in the parking lot, I was inside the eighth pole. Come to think of it, maybe I would have been better off in the parking lot. It was probably in better shape than the grandstand.

Horseshit right back at ya. I can't recall any post of yours that had anything positive to say about NYRA. And I'm curious why you say you admire Charlie Hayward. What has he done to earn this admiration from you? Reading your criticisms of NYRA, you'd think Hayward would be at the bottom of your list of people you most admire.....

As stated, you choose to focus on the negative. A quick search of all my posts yielded the following:

(I started this thread):

02-26-2005, 11:17 PM

Belated kudos to NYRA
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't remember seeing anyone else post about this, so if they did, forgive me, but I think NYRA's decision to ban several offshore sites should be applauded. Those outlets represented a fairly good-sized chunk of their daily handle, and while Hayward's decision was the right one, it was also one that a lot of guys wouldn't have had the nerve to make. I know it was in their best interests but I would like to think they also had the everyday player in mind when this decision was made.

Another thread:

02-24-2004, 09:25 PM

NYRA
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I applaud NYRA's lower takeout. Compared to the MJC, it's a professional operation. But I will not play another race there until they seriously address the precipitous drops in odds on horses when they come off the turn with the lead. A mere five years ago it would have been preposterous that we would even have to address such an issue. Yes, it happens elsewhere too, and I don't play those tracks either.

...and I have said at least once that I like Hayward because he's a horseplayer, among other reasons. I wouldn't expect you to remember it, with all the posts you must read, but I wouldn't have posted that I was supportive of NYRA in the past if it weren't true.

It really is ok to put the NYRA pom-poms away at some point and look at certain situations objectively. Maybe it's not this particular subject, but at some point, a little impartiality would help your credibility in these NYRA debates.

[rokitman]

Where do you get these NYRA pom-poms?

[PaceAdvantage]

NYRA and the takeout reduction happened years ago, before Hayward ever appeared on the scene. Hayward certainly isn't the first NYRA top executive to also be a horseplayer....Barry Schwartz and Steve Crist come to mind immediately....these two also had the greatest influence on the NYRA takeout reduction program.

So, besides being a horseplayer, why else do you admire Charlie Hayward? What has he done since coming to NYRA to warrant continued admiration?

And as for pom-poms, there are PLENTY of folks on here slinging the NYRA mud around in earnest. You NEED the cheering section from me every once in a while to keep a little balance going....without me, this would simply be a NYRA death watch.

I eagerly await your reply.

[highnote]

I think NY racing should be privitized. Let the marketplace decide if the tracks are well run. If they're not, they'll go out of business.

I would like to see 3 or 4 tracks in the NYC metro area. Why not? Many years ago there were and there were fewer people then.

[The Hawk]

NYRA and the takeout reduction happened years ago, before Hayward ever appeared on the scene. Hayward certainly isn't the first NYRA top executive to also be a horseplayer....Barry Schwartz and Steve Crist come to mind immediately....these two also had the greatest influence on the NYRA takeout reduction program.

So, besides being a horseplayer, why else do you admire Charlie Hayward? What has he done since coming to NYRA to warrant continued admiration?


You said this:

"I can't recall any post of yours that had anything positive to say about NYRA."

So I found them. Took me about a minute and a half. So, were you or were you not wrong about that? You jump all over guys for making erroneous accusations. Curious how the takeout is just glossed over as being old news, since you'd rather not focus on something positive that I posted about NYRA. I'm not saying you should have remembered them, but then I post them here and you still ignore it?

The fact that Charlie Hayward is a horseplayer is a big reason why I think he's a perfect guy to run a racetrack. I've been around enough racetracks to know that most of them are run by guys who have no clue as to what a $1 trifecta box costs. But you want more. He's a very successful businessman, he understands the economics of the game, and since I know people who know him personally I can say I've heard nothing but good things about the guy. What has he done for NYRA since taking over? Mostly damage control, it seems to me. But what else is he to do? He's walked into some mess.

You conveniently forget that the whole point was that you made the statement that I don't say anything positive about NYRA. I proved you wrong, and used Hayward as an example. Now you're attacking me about Hayward? I'm not linking him to the takeout reduction, that's a separate issue. So after you posted this...

"I can't recall any post of yours that had anything positive to say about NYRA."

...you see there are two things right there that I think are right about NYRA, the takeout and NYRA. But if I said Hayward was worthless you'd accuse me of being anti-NYRA. I agree with you about Schwartz and Crist, but it never came up because it's not relevant, but if you want to count them there are FOUR positive NYRA comments, all in one post.

And as for pom-poms, there are PLENTY of folks on here slinging the NYRA mud around in earnest. You NEED the cheering section from me every once in a while to keep a little balance going....without me, this would simply be a NYRA death watch.

I eagerly await your reply.

This is ridiculous. You and TLG wave the banner without prejudice, and when someone has the nerve to post a negative comment about NYRA you guys get so goddam defensive you lose any credibility on the topic. I respect -- generally, I have GREAT respect -- for both your opinion and the opinion of TLG on everything else racing related EXCEPT for this topic, because you're not objective.

[PaceAdvantage]

What do you want me to say? Losing money is a good thing? Short fields are a good thing? Screwy detention TENTS at Saratoga are a good thing (Hayward didn't quite think this one through, according to the horsemen, correct?)

Cheating tellers are a good thing? Cheating trainers are a good thing? Of course they aren't! Do you need me to post all the bad things that have happened at NYRA (this stuff also happens at lots of other tracks)? Isn't that what the deferred indictment and the Federal monitor were for? What did they conclude recently?

I know damn well NYRA has screwed up plenty. You don't need me repeating all the stuff you and others repeat here again and again. What the hell good is that going to do?

OK, so you posted some positive stuff about NYRA on one or two occasions. I just posted some criticism of Hayward and the way he handled the Saratoga detention tents. I guess we're even.

BTW, with all the negatives being thrown around about NYRA, it's interesting they were able to attract a record crowd for a Breeders' Cup in NY, despite the less than optimal weather and a LACK of marquee names.

[highnote]

BTW, with all the negatives being thrown around about NYRA, it's interesting they were able to attract a record crowd for a Breeders' Cup in NY, despite the less than optimal weather and a LACK of marquee names.

I was surprised by those numbers, too. That's a good sign.

I wonder though, how many people were industry people and how many were just regular fans.

[Ron]

Cheating tellers are a good thing? Cheating trainers are a good thing? Of course they aren't!

You forgot cheating head waiters!! ;)

[PaceAdvantage]

You forgot cheating head waiters!! ;)

Precisely because it is so forgettable.