Bush and his mindset

[Bobby]

Here's an insightful story focusing on the Bush administration & W's mindset on IRAQ, on Katrina, the leak, & the nomination of Harriet Miers.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/358714p-305660c.html

[Chuckles_the_Clown]

Very Interesting Bobby,

Thought these blurbs from the article are ominous:

"The President is just unhappy in general and casting blame all about," said one Bush insider. "Andy [Card, the chief of staff] gets his share. Karl gets his share. Even Cheney gets his share. And the press gets a big share."

"The vice president remains Bush's most trusted political confidant. Even so, the Daily News has learned Bush has told associates Cheney was overly involved in intelligence issues in the runup to the Iraq war that have been seized on by Bush critics."

So now its Cheney that was "overly involved" hmmmmm
These coming indictments could be very interesting. Always assumed they had Rove and Libby by the short hairs, but now Cheney may be in jeopardy.

The press and staffers are to blame?

Dayum this is Deja Vu.

time for an avatar


Here's an insightful story focusing on the Bush administration & W's mindset on IRAQ, on Katrina, the leak, & the nomination of Harriet Miers.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/358714p-305660c.html

[PaceAdvantage]

You guys really believe there will be indictments, no doubt about it? Hmmmm....I'll take a wait and see approach....

Not enough meat on 'dem dare bone in my opinion....but, if you live your life chasing shooting stars, eventually you might catch one....not here though....

[PaceAdvantage]

You know Chuckles, it could be quite the downer week for you if a) no indictments and b) LITF wins the BC Sprint.....:lol:

[Tom]

Daily News trying to pass off op-eds as news stories again, eh?
Once you get past Russ Harris, that rag is only fit for wrapping fish.
As far as news goes, that story was not. Exclusive? Maybe because no reputable paper would print such an obvious opinion piece under the guise of news.

[Chuckles_the_Clown]

You know Chuckles, it could be quite the downer week for you if a) no indictments and b) LITF wins the BC Sprint.....:lol:

I'll be going against most every strong favorite on B.C. Day. If the favorites prevail, i.e.:

Foggy
First Samurai
Ashado
Leroidesanimeaux

It will probably be a tough day to show postivie ROI.

St. Liam I'll be more careful with, but currently looking to beat him.

Daily News trying to pass off op-eds as news stories again, eh?
Once you get past Russ Harris, that rag is only fit for wrapping fish.
As far as news goes, that story was not. Exclusive? Maybe because no reputable paper would print such an obvious opinion piece under the guise of news.
__________________
Whaddaya mean we're out of bananas?????

The subject article was hearsay, as it all is coming out of the Whitehouse, but these stories have come from other sources for a number of years. Dubya has a celebrated irrationality and uses it liberally outside of the public eye. He's occasionally demonstrated it to the public too.

Context is important. The history of siege is that it causes those exposed to it to come unraveled. Does anyone really think Dubya posesses the personality to show grace under pressure? He won't even face a neutral public speaking eventa and he's definitely under siege.

Lets be real though. We are talking treason. Outting a CIA agent and covering up that act is treasonous. Its especially treasonous when its part of a fabricated plan to take the country to war and let the real enemy off. The treason is heightened when intelligence is withheld by the White House from the Congress, which is the body that must declare war. If that body is misled by a plan that both fabricates and hides evidence that is treason. Its an act to subvert the government.

All along the Cons have said that those opposing them are traitors. The question now is: "What shall we do with the treasonous?" Its no longer a question of who are the traitors.

I answer jail and impeachment. Let the hearings begin.

Comic Relief, Dubya in his own words:

Animation with actual press conference audio. Classic Dubya, he misprounces a big word and then tells the audience what it means.

lol

It's really too frequent and funny to believe. No wonder the Nation is dealing with such profound mistakes.

http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/disassembler.htm

One more right from his mouth: "You gotta catapult the propaganda." You can't make this type of stuff up.

http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/catapultpropaganda.htm

[Kreed]

WHY can we use reason more then we politicize or religionize or catergorize
or racialize or demonize or, like BoxCar just criticize. Why can't we scientize
more? Now lets Honest-ize here for a moment: Cheney, F'N annoyed at Wilson
finds/knows Wilson's wife is a ex-CIA agent; aha, Vunerable. Rides w/ Libby
in a limo, to work, and mentions this, the wheels are on fire. Innunendo. Novak ---isn't he just ugghhh, creepy? --- lays the lyric in print. He, Novak, KNOWS
that Cheney is the REAL trouble maker here, and being a huge AssKisser, but
mortal, would have his tongue removed before squealing. He's no idiot.
YET, Cheney intention is to hurt Wilson, disparage him, but is that a crime?
umm, mAYBE at that level, it should be, because we assume that a VP would
not be concerned with trivia. ONLY. if Cheney obstructed or just Libby, then
I think Libby will fall. I'm sure of this outcome, 75-25%.

[JustRalph]

Cheney For President in 2008!!!!

[Tom]

The facts of the case do not suspport the conclusions.
I would rather out a CIA agnet than totally ignore the bombing of the USS Cole.
Bush has never come close to beating that for disgusting things.
Ralph - Chenney's campaign slogan.....The clock is ticking, and so am I!

[PaceAdvantage]

If they say it enough times, does it make it true? That's what you have to ask yourself.

Was a CIA agent actually "outed" in this case? Let's examine the meat, and forget the garnish.

[Chuckles_the_Clown]

The facts of the case do not suspport the conclusions.
I would rather out a CIA agnet than totally ignore the bombing of the USS Cole.

Holy shit.

Its not a choice between which is less evil: The volitional outting of a covert CIA agent working upon keeping America safe from WMD's vs. The intentional bombing of a destroyer.

The intentional bombing of the destroyer MIGHT be worse. Even then I'm not certain. This agent outting might allow a True Terrorist to get WMD's and kill thousands with them, but that sure as hell isn't the issue. No agent of our government intentionally bombed the USS Cole. (At least none to our knowledge) Government agents did out the CIA agent. Not even remotely similar. I'm chatting with wallpaper. You guys are unbelieveable.

The USS Cole was bombed on October 12, 2000. It took some time to ascertain who did it. Clinton was gone in four months. Bush had 9 months thereafter (13 months total) and had done nothing by 9-11. If Clinton had hit who he suspected maybe something would have been done during his term. Then again, maybe he'd of made an Iraq faux paux and killed a bunch of innocents.

You Neo Cons need to turn the heater off, turn the music up, pour cold water down your pants and slap yourselves into conciousness. We are talking treason here. Not the "your not on board, so you're a traitor" type of stuff. Real treason. American lives put at risk. Goverment work ruined by loose lips because the lips wanted to protect false war justifications. There was no yellowcake. They didn't want America to hear that. They wanted to scare America with mushroom cloud imagery. They wanted their treason to go unchecked.

I can't believe you guys are this thick. We are talking treason. Our own government working illegitimately against legitmate and critical government function. Treason folks. Say the word. Say it. Learn it, live it, love it, love it so much you want to correct it. Treason will not go unpunished. Those that cover up Treason will not go unpunished. This is not a Fascist Government. This is not Nazi Germany. This is not about Mein Fuhrer. This is America. This in the U.S. of A. and this is about Treason.

Let the hearings begin. Let the treasonous rats run for the shadows. We will know them by their attempts to hide.



Bush has never come close to beating that for disgusting things.
Ralph - Chenney's campaign slogan.....The clock is ticking, and so am I

Dubya isn't directly tied up in the outting or coverup yet. What may save him is that he is the least inquisitive and most disengaged individual that has sat in the oval office in modern times, but its far from over and Rove was his top aide.

let the chips fall where they may

Let the treasonous rats dangle by their necks from the gallows. Even the old bald ones.

CtC

[PaceAdvantage]

We've already gone over all of this Chuckles...you're late to the party. This Plame stuff is old news...the only things left are the indictments (if any) that may be handed out....

Relax...let the SP do his job, and get back to us when he issues his ruling.

I know you're itching to hang Bush by his balls, (or at least Rove), but I have a hunch you are going to be severely disappointed (again).

[46zilzal]

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/presrankings1.html

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/02/26_presidents.html

It's too bad that NONE of the elected officials in the last 40 years came CLOSE to making it on this list. Well TODAY at least..Surprised that Nixon was left off the worst list. As this survey states: "Presidents who served during a time of war or acute economic crisis would have a certain advantage over those whose terms were relatively peaceful and prosperous. Also, the passage of time can have an effect on how a president is ranked, given that new information or analysis can change the way we view a particular chief executive."

What does it takes to be a good leader? REPSONDING to difficult situations with what is BEST (in the long run) for a country whether it is popular (i.e. Truman) or not. I suppose the rutabga currently thinks he is doing that.

[Chuckles_the_Clown]

Your hunches aren't worth much PA....tell me your B.C. Day hunches. I bet I can eliminate a lot of horses that way. The indictments are all about the outting. If i'm late to the party, its clear you don't know why its being thrown.

You have to be a N.Y. resident or part republican.

lol


We've already gone over all of this Chuckles...you're late to the party. This Plame stuff is old news...the only things left are the indictments (if any) that may be handed out....

Relax...let the SP do his job, and get back to us when he issues his ruling.

I know you're itching to hang Bush by his balls, (or at least Rove), but I have a hunch you are going to be severely disappointed (again).

[Chuckles_the_Clown]

What does it takes to be a good leader? REPSONDING to difficult situations with what is BEST (in the long run) for a country whether it is popular (i.e. Truman) or not. I suppose the rutabga currently thinks he is doing that.

Zilzal, the lies that Dubya and his cronies told to justify an attack against Iraq are going to become fully known. This is the internet age. The dinosaurs that did this fraud really don't understand you can't hide this kind of stuff anymore. When Iraq eventually goes bad. and it will go very bad, America will point the finger of accountability at one man. This is one man's mistake.

I can't take the time to itemize all the reasons but the Rutabaga will surely go down in history as the biggest joke of a President this nation ever had, but many of them involve Iraq:

Not being prepared to stop 9-11, despite adequate warning

Attacking the wrong nation in regard to 9-11

Fabricating reasons to attack that nation

Committing criminal acts endangering the Country to hide those fabrications

Defying International law in the process

Failure of the ostensible reason for that invasion (WMD's)

Poisoning the invaded Country with WMD's (depleted uranium)in the war to rid them of WMD's

This isn't going to go well for this White House. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that. They just made the wrong decisions at every turn.

[lsbets]

Depleted uranium a WMD? You are an idiot.

[46zilzal]

Depleted uranium a WMD? You are an idiot.
NO that far off given this data:

uranium-234: half life = 244 thousand years, 0.0055% of all uranium.
uranium-235: half life = 704 million years, 0.72% of all uranium.
uranium-238: half life = 4.5 billion years, 99.28% of all uranium.
QUESTION: Would that much radiation be about in that countryside OTHERWISE??

[lsbets]

NO that far off given this data:

uranium-234: half life = 244 thousand years, 0.0055% of all uranium.
uranium-235: half life = 704 million years, 0.72% of all uranium.
uranium-238: half life = 4.5 billion years, 99.28% of all uranium.
QUESTION: Would that much radiation be about in that countryside OTHERWISE??

What radiation? DU is not radioactive - it is a heavy metal like lead.

[46zilzal]

Depleted uranium is approximately 40 percent less radioactive than natural uranium, but RADIOACTIVE NOETHELESS...


Methinks someone FIBBED to you Didn't you get a lead apron to wear around it???

[lsbets]

Depleted uranium barely increases normal background radiation. The danger from DU comes if it gets inside of the body. Since it is very heavy, particles do not get blown around in the air. It would have to be ingested. So, if there were a hazard from DU, it would happen if it contaminated food crops or water supplies, just like lead. There is no signifigant risk of radiation exposure from DU.

[46zilzal]

Depleted uranium barely increases normal background radiation. The danger from DU comes if it gets inside of the body. Since it is very heavy, particles do not get blown around in the air. It would have to be ingested. So, if there were a hazard from DU, it would happen if it contaminated food crops or water supplies, just like lead. There is no signifigant risk of radiation exposure from DU.
Since I have a Master's degree in toxicology I am NOT really sold on your explanation

[lsbets]

I'm not trying to sell you, I could care less if you believe it or not. But, if you consider DU to be a WMD, than I will also lump you into the idiot category.

In 1999 the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry punlished A Toxicological Profile for Uranium. The conclusion - DU is chemically toxic, but not considered to be a radioation hazard.

[46zilzal]

SOME toxic substances i.e. lead (usually as lead acetate or SUGAR of lead), polychloronated biphenyls, etc. do NOT show up as a SHORT term toxic problem.

THERE is NO safe level of radioactivity if the exposure to ANY of it is LONG enough, even in the MOST casual interaction. Why do you think radiologists have, BY FAR, the higherst level of leukemia?? BACK GROUND higher levels of radiation over a career INCREASES their changes of severe health problems.

Health risk. not a WMD - but then IT WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN THERE without the war

[46zilzal]

I always ask my patients how many x-rays they have had in the previous few years to DECREASE the health risks of unnecessary exposure. Roentgen Equivalent Man is an expression of the amount of ionizing radiation we recieve and it has to be SPREAD over a certain time limit per mass of the indiviual to keep them in the saftey range.

SAME thing with increased background radiation in the environment.

[46zilzal]

Recommendations

* Following conflict, levels of DU contamination in food and drinking water might be detected in affected areas even after a few years. This should be monitored where it is considered there is a reasonable possibility of significant quantities of DU entering the ground water or food chain.
* Where justified and possible, clean-up operations in impact zones should be undertaken if there are substantial numbers of radioactive projectiles remaining and where qualified experts deem contamination levels to be unacceptable. If high concentrations of DU dust or metal fragments are present, then areas may need to be cordoned off until removal can be accomplished. Such impact sites are likely to contain a variety of hazardous materials, in particular unexploded ordnance. Due consideration needs to be given to all hazards, and the potential hazard from DU kept in perspective.
* Small children could receive greater exposure to DU when playing in or near DU impact sites. Their typical hand-to-mouth activity could lead to high DU ingestion from contaminated soil. Necessary preventative measures should be taken.

[lsbets]

Seems to back up what I said the primary risks are from DU.

[46zilzal]

short term...these have not been around long enough to draw and HARD line conclusions. It is always better to err on safety's side. I wouldn't want this crap around and neirther do many DUMP sites around the U.S. Just saw a big hullabloo in Utah over it's being placed there.

In the twenties MANY dentists used to hold the film in the patient's mouths until their fingers bagan to have canerous growths in the 40's. Radiation doses are accumlative over time, particularly LONG TERM low dose.

[Chuckles_the_Clown]

Depleted uranium a WMD? You are an idiot.

Methinks Isbets isn't aware of just how radioactive Du actually is. Or maybe he wasn't aware until Zilzal contributed to his edification.

What I'd suggest in this edification attempt is some investigation into the radioactivity increases in Iraq subsequent to the legal 1991 Gulf War and the illegal 2003 blitzkrieg. This may be hard for Isbets to follow, but I'd suggest an analysis into how else these elevated radiotivity readings could have occurred. Or in other words, has a nuclear device been detonated in Iraq? Theres some leeway here Isbets, be creative in explaining it.

Additionally, Isbets may want to inquire into the number of 1991 Gulf War Vet Disability. The number is astonishingly high and many of these men have radiative concentrations in their testes. Don't ask me why it goes there, but it does.

My guess is Isbets served and received the common Du demonstration where the sergeant puts the live round in his mouth to prove its harmlessness. FYI, that round is heavily coated and the real danger is when it becomes "friable". I'll let Isbets ascertain the definition of that term. It will make him feel like he's determined something on his own accord.

Lastly, that thoroughly dismissed organization called The United Nations has quite a bit to say about the nature of Du as a weapon. In determining whether it is a WMD you may want to do some investagation there. By the way, now that our Army is thoroughly bogged down in Iraq, Dubya is desperately trying to get the United Nations to sanction Syria, ostensibly for a bombing that killed a former Lebanese Prime Minister. Though the real reason is probably for Syria to undertake greater action to cut down on arms moving from Syria to insurgents in Iraq. In other words, we need the United Nations help, our Army is too small to do it all.

CtC
MERRY FITZMAS!!!...What is Santa Fitz bringing all you bad Neo Con Boys and Girls?...A year in Leavenworth!!!!!!!!........how nice for you!!!!!!!!!!!! ...MERRY FITZMAS **==

[lsbets]

Hmm, I post reports and studies, 46 posts opinions, and then 46 posts a study by WHO which backs up what I said. Chuckie the Moron posts something he heard from someone somewhere and slides in the occasional insult. Sounds like someone comes unglued when knowledgable folks speak out! What's the matter Chuckie? Does your sense of intelligence disappear when I reveal you to be the fool that you are. Methinks so.

It takes a brave man (or woman) to hide anonymously in the shadows of the internet and hurl insults. Step out from the shadows Chuckie, or are you scared?

[46zilzal]

knowing WHO said it makes NO DIFFERENCE to what was said. Content doesn't chagne

And that W.H.O. report DOES NOT back up you point of view

[ljb]

MERRY FITZMAS!!!...What is Santa Fitz bringing all you bad Neo Con Boys and Girls?...A year in Leavenworth!!!!!!!!........how nice for you!!!!!!!!!!!! ...MERRY FITZMAS **==

[/b]
:lol:

[Chuckles_the_Clown]

knowing WHO said it makes NO DIFFERENCE to what was said. Content doesn't chagne

And that W.H.O. report DOES NOT back up you point of view

He doesn't know what he's talking about Zilzal. He has no idea of the huge increase of background radiation in Iraq. Nor the consequent increase in birth defects there. He doesn't care, these Du rounds are not raining down on Alabama or Mississippi or Texas or wherever these logicless Con's make their domicile. He doesnt know about the Gulf War clean up teams nor how like their Nam era Agent Orange counteparts they are all dead now. He doesnt know how the U.S. Government argued for years that Agent Orange was not a factor for disability, nor how they are stonewalling the Gulf War vets.

He just doesnt care. He's a Con and as long as he is not sick or dying, its all good.

MERRY FITZMAS!!!...What is Santa Fitz bringing all you bad Neo Con Boys and Girls?...A year in Leavenworth!!!!!!!!........how nice for you!!!!!!!!!!!! ...MERRY FITZMAS **==

[Tom]

Oh boy...Chuckles the Vet and ZigZag teaming up...W.H.O.'s on first?


:confused:

[lsbets]

knowing WHO said it makes NO DIFFERENCE to what was said. Content doesn't chagne

And that W.H.O. report DOES NOT back up you point of view

Lets see, I talked about the dangers of ingestion through food and water and so did the WHO report. You just hate to admit that I'm right.


And Chuck - I can't decide the better name for you - Chuckie the Coward or Chuckie the Chicken. Either way you know you can't dispute what I say, so instead you say I don't care. Whatever Chuckie the Chicken, I don't hide from my opinions.

[Tom]

And only 54 posts so far....seems like she's been here forever! :D

[Chuckles_the_Clown]

And only 54 posts so far....seems like she's been here forever! :D

12,000 posts and not a solitary good idea among them?

When Tom has a good idea you'll know cuz he'll start by saying "A democrat once told me."

Have another banana

[Kreed]

12K, thats gotta be a PA GR1 victory. Gene Simmons from Kiss said he "Had"
4,620 women, averaging about 3/week for ~30+ Years. hehe, aerobics A+.
Funny comment Chuckles, but Tom has a point of view, and unlike others here
who just are so Adored, but dumb, (and ugly too) Tom is right On, and knows
a good idea when it happens. You won't find Tom easy to peg.

[Lefty]

lbj, before you can put anyone in Leavenworth yuh gotta find a crime. Can you find it, apparantly Fitz hving trbles doing so. Maybe it'll be Wilson going away, huh?

[Steve 'StatMan']

lbj, before you can put anyone in Leavenworth yuh gotta find a crime. Can you find it, apparantly Fitz hving trbles doing so. Maybe it'll be Wilson going away, huh?

Strange things have happened. Just ask Linda Tripp!

[PaceAdvantage]

Your hunches aren't worth much PA....tell me your B.C. Day hunches. I bet I can eliminate a lot of horses that way. The indictments are all about the outting. If i'm late to the party, its clear you don't know why its being thrown.

You have to be a N.Y. resident or part republican.

lol


Only 56 posts, and yet you already read like a grizzled ol' vet at this game....insulting me on top of everything else....very nice.

I grow weary of this game.

[Lefty]

clown, how can there be indictments about the outing when there was no crime? Even the woman that helped draft the law, said this case clearly doesn't fit the criteria of the law. Course she did say this prosecutor has been creative in the past(not a good thing)and could trump up any ole charge. Looks like this prosecutor just likes "feathers" in his cap.

[ljb]

lbj, before you can put anyone in Leavenworth yuh gotta find a crime. Can you find it, apparantly Fitz hving trbles doing so. Maybe it'll be Wilson going away, huh?
Lefty,
Just curious, how does it feel as the worm turns ? Is perjury still a crime ? Is obstructing justice still a crime ? Is outing a cia operative a still a crime ?
If you choose to answer, please answer all the questions, thank you.

[Chuckles_the_Clown]

clown, how can there be indictments about the outing when there was no crime? Even the woman that helped draft the law, said this case clearly doesn't fit the criteria of the law.

First off, to my knowledge the law was passed in 1982. I've read it. It has three sections dealing with incrementally less severe sanctions depending upon the nature of the disclosure. Its US CODE, which means it was drafted, debated and passed by the full House and Senate. There is no way a single participant in the process can state whether the case does or does not fit the elements of the law. No one but the U.S. Attorney and the Grand Jury are in a position to know whether the case fits the elements. If it does there will be an indictment for violating that law.

As far as there being no underlying crime, whoever you listened to was spinning. That determination is always for the Prosecutor (Indictment) and Trial Jury (Conviction) to make.

Lastly, a bj is not a crime. Theres no crime at all there, unless the woman is under 18. Assuming she is over 18 how can a man be charged with perjury or obstruction of justice if the bj is legal?



she did say this prosecutor has been creative in the past(not a good thing)and could trump up any ole charge. Looks like this prosecutor just likes "feathers" in his cap.

You do know Fitzgerald was part of the Prosecutorial team that convicted the 1993 WTC bomber don't you?

They say you don't prove that you are a good prosecutor by convicting a guilty man. They say anyone can convict a guilty man. Where a prosecutor really shows his ability to convince and persuade is where he is able to convict an innocent man. Which in no way implies the White House traitors are innocent. But we are not worried about that are we? Being a true American means succeeding in what you do, thats why we support torture. With torture theres going to be innocents too.

http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/chickenhawks.htm

[Lefty]

lbj, I haven't seen any idictments for those charges. Have you?

[Tom]

No terror warning, either.

Lbj must play for the Astros - oh-fer's