KGEN PLUS

[shoelessjoe]

One of the members was nice enough to give me KGEN but Im looking for the one that has the plus in it.I would be willing to give you Val3 in return for it that was Doc Sartin's last program.Since they are no longer in buisness I figure we wouldnt be hurting anyone's pockets. Shoeless

[Vegas711]

Hi.


You may be tying your hands behind your back using a computer program that relies on limiting yourself to a single paceline. This idea that there is a single repesentative paceline in my opinion is based on false reality. horses very seldom duplicate a paceline, never will an entire field duplicate these lines. This may be the reason why these programs are out and why readouts like CJ,s are in.

If you are really interested in Sartins stuff I would buy their book Pace makes the Race and then get someone from this board to write a program which constructs these ratings for ALL the Horses pacelines for ALL horses.This program will kick the living crap out of any of these cool named programs.Having a cool name program will not make you any money it is your ability to maximize its use that will.

The Key is to work hard at the program recording when it works and why it failed. Learning what Par adjustments work for the track you are playing, Keeping a track profile and handicapping your ratings so you begin to learn patterns. This last line is why you need a printout of a horses last 10 races so that you can see race dynamics and form cycles. The easiest of sartins stuff to do this was TPR.


Good luck, Give it a try you will see that I am right.

[46zilzal]

If you are really interested in Sartins stuff I would buy their book Pace makes the Race and then get someone from this board to write a program which constructs these ratings for ALL the Horses pacelines for ALL horses.

That is already available. It is called Speculator PA and it was written by the fellow who wrote MANY of the Sartin programs

[Vegas711]

I heard about that program i didn't know it did TPr ratings?

[46zilzal]

I heard about that program i didn't know it did TPr ratings?
Doesn't use TPR's alone....many ratings for each horse EACH line

[DJofSD]

You may be tying your hands behind your back using a computer program that relies on limiting yourself to a single paceline. This idea that there is a single repesentative paceline in my opinion is based on false reality. horses very seldom duplicate a paceline, never will an entire field duplicate these lines. This may be the reason why these programs are out and why readouts like CJ,s are in.

Who say's you have to use a single pace line?

Doc never said there was a single representative paceline. If there's a false reality it is your understanding or a misapplication of that understanding.

No one ever said they duplicated their paceline. If they did they would never improve.

These programs are out because PIRCO/O' Henry House came out with newer programs. I believe Validator 3 was the last. And as zilzal pointed out, the methodology has continued with the offer of Speculator.

These programs are tools. In the hands of the inept, they'll frustrate and confuse. In the hands of those that already 'get it' they're a way to have both halves of the brain in harmony.

DJofSD

[danddiver]

Where can you get info on this software?
Thanks,
Dan

[46zilzal]

Contact the programmer Guy Wadsworth at ml.west@verizon.net. He will tell you all about it

[shoelessjoe]

A word of caution about Spec PA it doesnt come with any type of manual or instruction booklet.Unless you are familiar with Sartin Programs think twice about getting it.There are two websites where you can get instruction VDC Messenger run by a great guy named Binder and Sartin Alums which 46 Zigzal is associated with and who knows the program well. Shoeless

[Tom]

One of HTR screens is velocity for every paceline - EP, AP, SP, LP, F1,F2,F3, %E.

[46zilzal]

A word of caution about Spec PA it doesnt come with any type of manual or instruction booklet.Unless you are familiar with Sartin Programs think twice about getting it.

This poster has a bone to pick with that programmer so take this warning with about 3 tons of salt!. If you can understand pace analysis at all, this program, over time, becomes very easy to understand.

When you are as dumb as a post, it might be difficult

[Vegas711]

Who say's you have to use a single pace line?

Doc never said there was a single representative paceline. If there's a false reality it is your understanding or a misapplication of that understanding.

No one ever said they duplicated their paceline. If they did they would never improve.

These programs are out because PIRCO/O' Henry House came out with newer programs. I believe Validator 3 was the last. And as zilzal pointed out, the methodology has continued with the offer of Speculator.

These programs are tools. In the hands of the inept, they'll frustrate and confuse. In the hands of those that already 'get it' they're a way to have both halves of the brain in harmony.

DJofSDI disagree with what you wrote, I bought almost all of the sartin seminars tapes, they always talked about finding a representative paceline, you are totally wrong on this. If you have any of these tapes listen to them again.

I did not say that sartin talked about a horse duplicating its paceline, I am the one saying this, you miss read me.It is my observation that they seldom duplicate.

I never meant to inply that I was a big losser using sartins programs actually in the end i lost with his stuff 1/2 the track take.I learned a lot from Howard Sartin, I have no beef with him or any members.

What i was saying is that having ratings for a horses entire past performance will help you see a much more better picture than only looking at 1 paceline. I do say that there is no way that you can with all confidence say that picking 1 paceline for each horse , that you will not make an error in atleast 1 of these paceline selections.

If making significant profits using my method is inept i will be happy to be the inept KING.:cool:

[Tom]

This poster has a bone to pick with that programmer so take this warning with about 3 tons of salt!. If you can understand pace analysis at all, this program, over time, becomes very easy to understand.

When you are as dumb as a post, it might be difficult

How would one know what the readout mean without a manual or instructions?
I saw nothing in Shoeless's post that was insulting or unture, and you insinuate he dumber than a post?

Is his caveat true or false...bottom line, is there a manual or is there not?

[46zilzal]

I disagree with what you wrote, I bought almost all of the sartin seminars tapes, they always talked about finding a representative paceline, you are totally wrong on this. If you have any of these tapes listen to them again.

representative yes but anyone using any of these programs, with any competence, would NEVER depend upon a single paceline Tools have NO SINGLE WAY to be used

[Vegas711]

representative yes but anyone using any of these programs, with any competence, would NEVER depend upon a single paceline Tools have NO SINGLE WAY to be used


Me thinks, I just concentrate on making money investing at the racetrack and leave the arguing back and forth to others.

Make MONEY Not WAR.

[shoelessjoe]

Tom,Thanks there is no manual or instructions for it and 46zigzal is associated with the program therefore he persists in calling people names who have anything negative to say about it.The reason I mentioned it is because I feel before you plunk down $500 for something you should know what your getting.Even though I dont post much everyone here has been great about answering my questions.If trying to warn people about something that is true is wrong then I apologize I am dumb. Shoeless

[Binder]

Val 2 and Val 3 have a feature called Paceline indicater
or PI. All pace lines can be entered the by pushing F6 on your keyboard
it will rate the best lines for each horse what you will see is line 1 -3 line 2 -4 line 3 -1 etc.
Speculator has a pre analysis feature that does the same thing
and much better. You can view form cycles and get a better idea of the strenth of the lines Speculator is a fantastic program
The no instruction manual issue is a joke , The man behind it uses a cloke and dagger method to sell it under the table, 'Writing" or in truth fiddling around with a 5 year old
VAL 3 base Dos program, Then selling it out of the trunk of your car
is a tidy way to make some money. To put out a manual/instructions
means a legit product. sure e mail the man and listen to his sad story
He will refer to Doc when its good for him and bad mouth him when its good for him, Either way he wins
Sorry for the bitterness As I said great product- poorly marketed

[DJofSD]

they always talked about finding a representative paceline, you are totally wrong on this. If you have any of these tapes listen to them again.


I didn't have to buy any of the tapes. I had access to the author.

What do you mean by representative? Average? Typical?

What was said many times is you can find a pace line that will confirm the first line you selected especially if it shows it as the winner.

Substitute for representative the question 'how will my horse run today?'

DJofSD

[shanta]

One of the members was nice enough to give me KGEN but Im looking for the one that has the plus in it.I would be willing to give you Val3 in return for it that was Doc Sartin's last program.Since they are no longer in buisness I figure we wouldnt be hurting anyone's pockets. Shoeless

Shoe,
I think the difference in the 2 is that pre play screen if u want to "see" the counter energy horse try this and see if it helps

this is yesterdays 9th race at Hawthorne type these pacelines into your kgen they are the highest speed rating for the horse in last 3 comparable races going back no more than 180 days.

I have equalized and adjusted the races thru trackmaster to todays distance of 8.5 furlongs :

2- 47.6-112.4-144.3 bl-2.10-.70-0-0
4- 47.2-112.1-144.8 bl-2.1-1.8-1.5-1.0
6- 48.7-113.9-145.4 bl-7-1.6-.15-1.8
7- 46.8-111.8-144.8 bl-4.3-3.8-3-1.3
9- 46.0-111.1-145.5 bl-.15-.15-0-0
11-46.8-111.6-144.9 bl-15.1-8.5-6.6-4.8

after u type these in go to that deceleration screen which shows the horses with the lines going up and down look at the lines for the horses ok do you see ONE horse who "LOOKS" totally DIFFERENT than all the others??

now go look at the result of the race

hope this helps
Richie

[shoelessjoe]

Richie,Thanks I will try it and let you know.Shoeless

[Lefty]

Tom, there is no manual with SpecPA. If you are a Sartin Alum you will understand most of it. The guys at Satin Alum site will help and Guy will answer any questions.

[Lefty]

Tom, here's the site:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/SartinAlums/?yguid=101709371

shoe, why do you want to take a step bkwards with KGEN? If you have Val3 and SpecPA these are superior to KGEN. And KGEN is manual entry. Ouch.

[46zilzal]

There are people involved in the Deification of the memory of Howard Sartin who cannot accept PROGRESS. It is akin to the idea folks had in the 1890's when they wanted to CLOSE the U.S. patent office with phrases like "Well, EVERYTHING has been invented hasn't it?"Farily soon you might see them petition Rome for his sainthood.

Any movement down the line from what the PROPHET said has to be heresy even BEFORE it gets an objective trial. Any process has to stand on the merits of it's application NOT on any preconceivied notion of it.

Speculator adresses many of the failures of previous programs, it was written by the SAME programmer as previous pace programs (Validator and synthesis). The "cloak and dagger" fellow has severe emphysema and the sale of the program is his only income.

[Tom]

So what does this have to do with no manual?

I would say it was an appropriate heads up. If you are not familiar with Sartin read outs, there isno manual tohelp you. This makes you dumber than a post?

Enough said.

[Binder]

This cloke and dagger man twice tried to screw me
I paid for one of his early versions Specex $200
He wanted me to pay him cash to a third party
I refused, I was told by the moderator of SA "I will
take care of it" I sent the moderator the $200.00
and have a letter of thanks and a cashed check
also a promise of FREE upgrades.from the moderator. I than was banned
from SA because I spoke up about our freind Zigzag's suggested bet
of boxing the top 5 EPR horses
I was banned and sent a letter saying No updates to you
I started my own Sartin Methodology group V/DC Messenger I was accused of giving away free copies of Speculator or worse selling them on Ebay. I was then accused of being an acomplise to the man they caught
Ater It was agreed I was not involved .The Cloke and dagger man
contacted me and asked me to send him something for the copy ofSpecPA
I had.I asked hw much? $500 was what Iwas told That night A memeber of my group told me Cloke sent him The same program for $100 if i send it to his "friend"
I talked to Cloke he again said Send cash to so and so.I said no
All he needed to say was send it to me I had the $200 money order
ready I have never spoke to him again

[46zilzal]

I would say you had a BAD experience with this guy unbeknownst to me.

[46zilzal]

I was hoping to use this sometime in the future, it is from V/DC messenger:
TESTED by someone else
: Wed Jun 16, 2004 Subject: Findings on Top 5 EPR @ Philly

The last 2 days I have went back & reworked some of the Philly cards
using guidelines for the boxing top 5 EPR in the Trifecta. I
don't have all the Philly cards, but these are the ones I had so I
am not picking & choosing.

As most everyone agreed, it does take a hefty bankroll and veins
with ice water sometimes, but the angle did show profitable in my
testing. I am not near as savy as he may have been able to
turn a couple of my losers into winners or passes. I used only
sprints, babies, claiming & dirt. I pass on Allowances as better
horses are running there (not the cheap speed):

Total for 8 racing days
Profit of $2391.20

I am not advocating everyone should stop what they are doing and begin
betting this angle. He definitely has an eye for the unique
and often very profitable angle.

[PaceAdvantage]

What does the PA in SpecPA stand for?

[46zilzal]

Pre- Analysis....You can group all the past performance lines FIRST by whatever variable that relates to the surface/distance or track profile for example: TOTAL energy, 2nd call velocity, Hidden energy, Speed rating or True Speed and then mark them first, so that when you review all the lines later, you are better able to see where the FORM cycle is TODAY and you can see where a single entrant may have several lines in the top groups under a specific variable

[shoelessjoe]

Lefty,I dont have Spec PA I didnt want to buy it because there was no manual or instructions to go along with it.Also I like the older programs the manual entry I feel makes me concentrate better on the race.Shoeless

[shoelessjoe]

That's your trademark posting results from 2004 pretty current I would say.Shoeless

[shoelessjoe]

From the screens I have seen in Spec my advice to anyone thinking of getting it is just get Synthesis.Really that's all Spec is with a few bells and whistles added,plus you can save yourself $500 as well.Shoeless

[Binder]

I was hoping to use this sometime in the future, it is from V/DC messenger:
TESTED by someone else
: Wed Jun 16, 2004 Subject: Findings on Top 5 EPR @ Philly

The last 2 days I have went back & reworked some of the Philly cards
using guidelines for the boxing top 5 EPR in the Trifecta. I
don't have all the Philly cards, but these are the ones I had so I
am not picking & choosing.

As most everyone agreed, it does take a hefty bankroll and veins
with ice water sometimes, but the angle did show profitable in my
testing. I am not near as savy as he may have been able to
turn a couple of my losers into winners or passes. I used only
sprints, babies, claiming & dirt. I pass on Allowances as better
horses are running there (not the cheap speed):

Total for 8 racing days
Profit of $2391.20

I am not advocating everyone should stop what they are doing and begin
betting this angle. He definitely has an eye for the unique
and often very profitable angle




Please show me were this appeared on VDC
I can't seem to located it

Binder

[46zilzal]

From the screens I have seen in Spec my advice to anyone thinking of getting it is just get Synthesis.Really that's all Spec is with a few bells and whistles added,plus you can save yourself $500 as well.Shoeless
ONLY problem is that synthesis NO LONGER is supported by automated downloads........

[Binder]

ONLY problem is that synthesis NO LONGER is supported by automated downloads........

There was a patch that you needed to order
from Pirco If you wanted to download from trackmaster
and didn't want to upgrade to the Validator series

The version of Synthesis I have has the patch I am
able to download TM files

[Lefty]

SpecPA is available and Synthesis is not, unless you find a used one. I do have a Val2 i'll sell.

[shoelessjoe]

Lefty I have a question for you if somebody really wanted Val why would you sell it to them instead of just giving it to them.Especially if it was someone here that has helped you out before.Shoeless

[Lefty]

shoe, because it wasn't given to me. I progressed from Pace Launcher 1 all the way up to Val2. Pacelauncher cost me I think, $300 and then every step up was $200 a pop. So, p1, p2, p3, p4, synthesis and val 1 and 2, you figure it out. Now I should just give it away? According to what I have in it, i'm practically giving it away.