Sanders Due

[toetoe]

Maybe undue is the word. No matter how many more games in the series, Reggie Sanders will not get a hit. He got two playoffs' worth of hits in the first game, and now he looks like Tyler Baze out there. I'm looking at these teams, and besides good pitching and good defense, neither one has a Murderers Row hitting lineup.

[Valuist]

The Yankees have the best lineup of all. But the postseason is about pitching; not hammering out 8 runs a game.

[Steve 'StatMan']

But the postseason is about pitching; not hammering out 8 runs a game.

How critical! Esp. give the sudden 2 out rally that put the Cardinals back on top and continuing the series.

Wow. What a crusher! I was watching the game and the extremely exhuberant fans oh so hopeful that they'd FINALLY get to be in the World Series, reminding me of us oh so hopefull and extremely exhuberant Cubs fans who like Astros fans, have frequently gotten their hopes crushed unexpectedly in playoff games, wondering if they'd put the final nail in the coffin, or if it'd suddenly turn on them and disappoint those 40+ thousands fans, and oh my god, it happened. The last thing to happen in this playoff series in Houston, and now back to St. Louis. Will St. Louis continue the comback, or will Houston be able to overcome this huge disappointment and get it done on the road? Oh how shocking. I feel sad for the Astros fans. "Big Mo" has suddenly changed. Can either of these teams polish truly each other off? Can either of them play strong enough for long enough vs. the White Sox who've been dominating lately?

[toetoe]

Don't forget that Houston have the second best of many scenarios happening right now. They haven't won 4 of 5, but they have won 3 of 5.

RSand is a pro, and I'm guessing he's a wonderful guy, but he was on his last legs years ago with the Giants. Something about the poker that GM's play with their lineups every years leads to people like Sanders, Jose Vizcaino (ex-Giant also), Julio frign Franco, Ruben Sierra(!), etc. finding roster spots year after year.

I forgot to ask after Frank Thomas. I've since learned he was kept off the roster after an injury-intensive year. Hmm, it may be the Nate Thurmond/Nomar Garciaparra effect: "franchise" player is traded or otherwise done without, and team wins championship. Stay tuned and fellas, let's score some RUNS.

[falconridge]

I feel sad for the Astros fans.
I feel sad for all fans who've had these preposterous faux-"retro" parks--of which Minute Maid, nee Enron, Field may be the worst example--inflicted upon them. Choo-choo trains, short porches, weird and dangerous angles, center-field hills, and in-play flagpoles don't add "color" or "character" to a ballfield; they undermine what would otherwise be a beautiful game.

When, in the first decade of the last century, Barney Dreyfuss built Forbes Field, he was determined never to let the cheap home run, a phenomenon he could not stomach, decide a game.* This in an era in which Ty Cobb led the league in homers when he legged out seven of the inside-the-park variety. Dreyfuss was right. In what way is a 320' home run more exciting than a triple--or a double that sends a runner plateward as it tests the arm of the outfielder or the cutoff man?

Unfortunately, deeply discounted circuit shots factored heavily into the Astros' comeback in the marathon against the Braves, and a similar only-in-this-park blow threatened to be the game-winner in last night's tilt. Neither of Berkman's dingers would have made it to the seats in any other yard, nor would Burke's decisive 18th-inning "clout" have been more than a can o' corn in a proper ballpark. Pujols's shot, on the other hand, would have cleared the perimeter of Yellowstone.

The pop fly-catching Crawford boxes aren't the only annoying feature of Ten-Run Field. Like other recently opened "retro" parks, Minute Maid is rife with appointments worthy of a set-design in a Robert Zemeckis movie--old timey "family friendly" props (camouflaging pricey luxury boxes), with cutesy canned sound effects and market-researched "cheers" blasting out of state-of-the-art surround speakers. If we're going to go retro, let's really be retro, and deep-six the Big-Brother gadgetry that tells us when and how to cheer.

I've nothing against the 'Stros, their fans, or their skipper, "Scrap Iron" Phil Garner. But I don't care to see--ever--another game played in their ridiculously configured, gingerbread-trimmed crib. I'll take the old, cold steel symmetry of the Busch-era ballparks any day.

Curmudgeonlily,

Falconridge

*This dead-ball era park, which the game never outgrew, lasted until 1970. Its dimensions: 365' down the left-field line (with a 28' scoreboard), 406' to the left-field power alley (cleared in 1960 by the Mazeroski blast that sank the Yankee armada in WS game seven), 457' to the deepest part of center, and 420' to the right-field power alley. In our age of 'roided-up sluggers and rabbited-up baseballs, these would be reasonable dimensions.

[toetoe]

'Ridge,

I believe they sometimes moved the fences in at FF, not sure when or why. This gave them a choice of retro or realistic, I guess. Hey, which park was it that "say Hey" threw out Stargell as he tried to score from first on a double, said throw being from the wall/fence?
Just thought of a great 'double threat' stat ... overthrows of cutoff man + times retired on first pitch. My money is on VGuer --- he's good enough, a la Manny Sanguillen, (oops, ethnic profile alert!) to make contact and put into play a pitch anyone in his right mind (I know, I know ... we're talking baseballers) would take for ball one. As to overthrows, hey, any ball-loving kid wants to show off his arm.
As Howard would say,
"That Philly Gah-nah. He's a peppa pot!"

[Valuist]

Ridge-

I wonder how many homers Clemente would've hit if he played most of his career at Three Rivers and not Forbes. He wasn't really known as a power guy but I've heard he's one of the few hitters that actually hit the scoreboard at Wrigley w/a HR.

[OTM Al]

No one ever hit the scoreboard at Wrigley, though a few have come close

[Valuist]

I never saw it but supposedly Clemente did.

[falconridge]

I believe they sometimes moved the fences in at FF, not sure when or why. This gave them a choice of retro or realistic, I guess. Hey, which park was it that "say Hey" threw out Stargell as he tried to score from first on a double, said throw being from the wall/fence?
I thought you might lay wood on my Rip Sewell style blooper ball. The Pirates did once shorten the left field fence at old Forbes, long after Dreyfuss had left the scene. In the late 1940s, the management (which then consisted of Bing Crosby and a few co-investors), acting upon the suggestion of Hank Greenberg, who played his last ML season as a Pirate, put in a cyclone fence (kind of like what enclosed the outfield at old Candlestick) that extended from the left field line to the power alley in left center. This was to accommodate pull-hitting bopper Ralph Kiner, then in his second year with the big club. The reach still wasn't short, but its more conventional 340'-380' no doubt aided Kiner in winning seven consecutive home run titles. When, in the early '50s, the Bucs traded Kiner to the Cubs in a blockbuster six-player deal (which brought Joe "Baldchuckler" Garagiola to the Bucs) that helped neither team, the cyclone fence was removed, and the old configuration restored.

My guess is that Say Hey's Stargell-snaring peg came at Forbes. The throw would have been launched from near the batting cage, which the Bugs stored in deep center field, near the 457' marker. Speaking of which, I once saw Juan Marichal slither unscathed from beneath a Pirate gang tackle, when, with a runner on first, the late Donn Clendenon swatted a Dandy pitch that wound up hitting the batting cage on the fly. What would surely have been at least a run scoring triple (even if Clendenon had fallen down rounding second), and likely an inside-the-parker (the ball was airborne a long time), became a ground-rule non-run scoring double. Still bitter about that one.

[falconridge]

No one ever hit the scoreboard at Wrigley, though a few have come close
Al's right about Wrigley register. Clemente clouted one that actually sailed above the scoreboard, just left of center. A couple decades earlier, Billy "Swish" Nicholson, a power-hitting mainstay of the Cubs' last pennant-winning squad, pasted a pill that barely missed the scoreboard on the left, but was high and far enough to have hit it. And the late (my God, are they all gone?) Dick Stuart crushed a liner that is said to have followed the same arc as Nicholson's drive.

Valuist, I have a story to share about Clemente, but I'll wait for a subsequent post. He could certainly muscle up when he wanted to--or had to--though it would have been silly to follow those tactics in the airport-sized home ballpark in which he played most of his career.

[falconridge]

Ridge-

I wonder how many homers Clemente would've hit if he played most of his career at Three Rivers and not Forbes. He wasn't really known as a power guy but I've heard he's one of the few hitters that actually hit the scoreboard at Wrigley w/a HR.
Had Clemente played in a more homer-friendly home ballpark, he might have run up an impressive total of career round-trippers. That nearly happened. Clemente entered organized baseball in the Dodger organization, only to be claimed by the Pirates from the Bums' minor-league affiliate Montreal Royals in the equivalent of the Rule 5 Draft. Clemente had signed with the Dodgers for a $10K bonus after he'd given his word and a handshake to the scout who offered him his first professional contract. After young Roberto had agreed to sign, but before he'd inked anything with the Dodgers, a Braves representative offered the Carolina, PR native a $40K bonus to sign with that organization. The Braves offer, however, was, as far as Sra. Clemente was concerned, a non-starter. Since her son had already given his word to the Dodgers and agreed upon the price, he'd left himself with no choice but to honor his commitment and sign for a fourth of what the Braves were offering. To go back on one's word was something a real man could never do.

Imagine a Braves lineup with Eddie Mathews, Henry Aaron, and Clemente! Roberto might have developed into a very different kind of hitter--carrying perhaps only a .285-.310 BA instead of the circa .330-.340 clip at which he hit consistently in Bucs black and gold, but swatting (especially in Milwaukee's County Stadium) 30-35 home runs per season. And with Clemente's rifle arm in right field, Aaron might never have moved from second base.

As things shook out, Clemente tailored his swing to produce gap-finding, long-rolling, off-field line drives--perfect for Forbes Field. Still, he could, as you know, muscle up when called upon. In 1966, his MVP year (about time the baseball writers woke up!), manager Harry Walker asked 'Berto to "go longball" in the last half of the season. Clemente produced 29 HR that year--more than any righthanded batter other than Dick Stuart or Frank Thomas (not the Big Hurt) had hit during a non-Greenberg Gardens season at Forbes Field.

I said I had a Clemente story, Val.; didn't say it was good. Nonetheless ...

"Batting third, and playing right field, number twenty-one ...", my boyhood hero.

[toetoe]

FRidge,

How about Beto and Say Hey on the Bums at the same time. Didn't the Bums pass up Mays to take Carl Furillo?

Didn't Der Bingel also buy Batavia Downs and beseech the locals to come gambol "where the turf meets the Monongahela?(sp.?)" Catchy as it sounds, I guess it never caught on.

Dick Stuart had home runs in all the extant parks while still playing, for a while, anyway.