BC question for all [Archive] - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

10-03-2005, 11:46 AM

I have had two really big scores that I remember right off.

The first was Cajun Beat, just betting to win in the sprint, but it was a big win bet, and he was 20-1 I think.

The second was Unbridled Elaine. I absolutely loved her in the Distaff, and in addition to playing her to win, I keyed her on top of the Illinois Bred mare that ran third, can't remember the name. But I played UE over her over all and UE over all over her. UE won at 12-1, the other horse ran third behind Spain at 50-1 or something like that, and I took down the tri I think 5 times if memory serves. Still haven't hit any big P3s or any P4s at all.

KirisClown

10-03-2005, 12:03 PM

1996 was an awesome year for me..... Pilsudski in the Turf.. took a stand against the heavily favored Maktoum entry.

Followed up by Alphabet Soup in the Classic....

http://img304.imageshack.us/img304/3456/alphabet18rd.jpg

oddswizard

10-03-2005, 12:07 PM

I had two major scores in the Classic. Alphabet Soup over Cigar & Volponi to win and the late double. My biggest score was the one I missed in the pick 6. Went to the track with a partner and could not get him to take 1/2 of my $364.00 pick 6 ticket. He decided to play trifectas. He went 0 for the course in trifectas and the ticket I did not play keyed Volponi in the Classic and I lost $3.1 million as the only winning ticket. I simply did not bring enough dough to the races that day.

46zilzal

10-03-2005, 12:42 PM

Dancing Brave was deemed "unbeatable" which I thought was akin to the Titanic being unsinkable. The night before the race (Halloween) I had a shirt made up which said "Dancing Brave, you can't handle the turns here," and while wearing it, stood at the walking ring right in front of the little PIN HEAD Eddery yelling "Manila, Manila, Manila to the Whittingham entry." Folks thought I was nuts UNTIL the race was over and then they were taking my picture. I showed it to Leroy Jolley as he was walking back to the saddling enclosure and he laughed out loud. An aside: my sister was betting the race and was talking to two fellows who had flown in from England. She matter of factly said: "Dancing Brave will lose because he has too much ground to make up." They scoffed at her, but they too looked her up AFTER the race to ask her who she liked in the Classic. Actually, I told this story to the Derby List and it wound up in Perry Lefko's book: The Breeders's Cup: the Greatest Day on the Turf.

It's fun when your'e right.

JustRalph

10-03-2005, 12:54 PM

Unbridled Elaine made my day too...............big win bet for me.

detectivelemmycaut

10-03-2005, 01:46 PM

OK here is my take on the Breeders Cup

1. You need lot's of money on that day and if you do not have much just pick one race and crush it.

2. You need guts! If you don't have any borrow some from a friend and return them after the race.

3. You need to have a horse as a key that the crowd hates.

You can score big in trifectas exactas pick threes pick four and win bets and the big daddy of them all the pick six.

My big scores come from all of the above except the pick six. I buy a small pick six ticket as it cost so much to stand a chance at hitting it.

They will let so many horses go off at long odds that would be even money on other days. My favorite bet is find a bomb single and then wheel all all in the pick three. The other is find a key in a tri and wheel in all three places with at least half the field. If my exacta key is 10-1 or higher buy a key wheel 5/all and all/5 ect. This worked well in the kd this year 50-1 shot/all all/50-1 shot. I don't get cuite on bc day just spend the money. If it looks like a Broco horse or some fav and fav will win the race I buy a 2 or three horse box like 10 times and that is another way to crush the cup. Good Luck.

kitts

10-03-2005, 02:08 PM

I only had one huge BC score. The Classic won by Black Tie Affair. I had come from Califonria to Vegas to bet this event and lost every race up to the Classic. I decided Black Tie Affair would win and Twilight Agenda would run second so I bet that one-way exacta. Twenty times. This was back in the days of "local pools" and I got to bet into the Churchill Downs pool so I got better prices than my buddies in California.

Such fun and such a long time ago.

garyoz

10-03-2005, 02:16 PM

I'm mediocre on BC Day, but my best two days were focusing on track biases. 1996 at Woodbine and another year at GP--the year Cat Thief won. In both cases I perceived a speed bias and handicapped like they were regular races instead of BC Races--ignoring the hype and looking for speed on the main track with competitive TGraph numbers.

Definitely easier to hit exactas and trifectas than trying to put together 3 or 4 winners in a row. Its one of the few days I'll use an "all" button to fill out gimmicks (expect at Mountaineer which I do regularly).

I've also been at the track with friends who have had big scores in BC races hitting tri key wheels on the turf races using Ragozin sheets to find key horses. As Harvey Pack used to say, "The Wheel is Man's Greatest Invention."

rastajenk

10-03-2005, 02:21 PM

I've picked a few upsets here and there, but the Cup cleans my clock every year. I shouldn't even be posting in this thread. Sometimes it comes in the form of near-misses, but other times I'm left wondering if I even handicapped the right race. I think this year should provide more than the usual fireworks. I'll be watching from the sidelines for the most part.

Valuist

10-03-2005, 02:25 PM

1990

Had three nice hits. The tri with Fly So Free and two 30-1 shots underneath in the Juvenile, the exacta in the Mile with Royal Academy/Itsallgreektome and then the exacta in the Classic with Unbridled and a longshot I can't even remember. None of the winners was a big price but the runnerups all were.

fmhealth

10-03-2005, 02:32 PM

Kev, just as a reminder. If you had bet EVERY horse at odds of 20-1 or better in EVERY BC race you would now have a profit of 35%.If you started this strategy in 99-03 you would be ahead a remarkable 82%!!! Also, if you had simply bet EVERY horse, no matter what the odds were,during this time period,you would also have a positive ROI, albeit a small one.

BTW, this is significantly better than the results I've been able to generate.

46zilzal

10-03-2005, 02:52 PM

I'm mediocre on BC Day, but my best two days were focusing on track biases. 1996 at Woodbine and another year at GP--the year Cat Thief won. In both cases I perceived a speed bias and handicapped like they were regular races instead of BC Races-

Those two courses are, USUALLY, speed crazy, but YES they were MORE so on those days. Also at CD in '88 there was a definite LANE bias as NOTHING, save Gulch in the sprint, moved up near the rail. EVERY WINNER was at least 3 to 4 off. The riders who picked it up (Laffit on Is It True among others) profited greatly.

46zilzal

10-03-2005, 02:57 PM

Classic with Unbridled and a longshot I can't even remember. None of the winners was a big price but the runnerups all were.

European, deep closer Ibn Bay something or other. He had beaten a few BIG names in Europe and handled the dirt VERY well that day. Unbridled splitting horses was amazing to see. The trainer said that that one was fearless in that regard never minding being in tight.

how cliche

10-03-2005, 03:05 PM

I traveled to Oak Tree for the '03 edition. I had a small bankroll of $150 which made it so I could only choose 3 runners on the day. I told my buddy, "There's three horses I'm gonna play today. Dimitrova in the Filly & Mare Turf, Johar in the Turf and Pleasantly Perfect in the Classic.

After Dimitrova ran LAST, I hit two win bets and nailed the tri in the classic on an additional $6 bet, where I wish I'd played the super, because I went 2,6,9with8with2,6,9. Little did I know it would finish 2-8-6-9.

Tee

10-03-2005, 03:42 PM

I'll give a year by year recap

95 - My Flag in the Juvenile fillies. She only paid $9, but it was my first Breeders Cup wager.

96 - I also had Pilsudski who paid $29.40. Read something about Arc also rans/runners-up doing well in the Turf race & he fit the bill.

97 - Wasn't a good year :)

98 - Had Escena at a whopping $8 & took in the %@! with the Swain debacle. All in all not a good year either. :mad:

99 - Had a couple bucks to place on Tuzla in the mile $13.20.

00 - Was getting killed all day until I was bailed out by Macho Uno, Kalanisi & Tiznow along w/Giant's Causeway.

01 - A reverse of the year prior. Got off to a good start with Unbridled Elaine & Tempera, went cold until Johannesburg. Didn't have a single wager on Tiznow, but was happy to see him win.

02 - Couldn't have hit water off an aircraft carrier.

03 - Six Perfections ($12.60) only decent winner on the day, but it was enuff.

04 - Wasn't feeling Lone Star Park & did not make one single play.

46zilzal

10-03-2005, 04:09 PM

93 B.C. and a poor guy in front of us lost and/or GOT PHOTO'd OUT of every bet he made. Wife tells him: "Why not bet $5.00 across the board on this French horse (in the classic) trained by the good trainer Fabre since he has done so well this year." We all wished him (tongue in cheek) good luck and then slapped him on the back repeatedly when he showed a handsome profit on the day!! What did we know?

Valuist

10-03-2005, 04:48 PM

Zilzal-

You have a good memory re: that 1990 runner up. Ibn Bey. Must've been a gelding. Never seen any offspring of that one.
If I remember correctly, Unbridled DIDNT win horse of the year? He won the Derby and BC Classic but I thought they gave it to someone else. Who would that have been?

Bubbles

10-03-2005, 04:51 PM

Had to have been the Sprint in, I want to say, 2003. Had the Cajun Beat/Bluesthestandard/Shake You Down trifecta cold. Was surprised CB went off at such disrespecting odds (20-1), he was coming in off a very nice prep race. Trifecta paid in the neighborhood of $500.

46zilzal

10-03-2005, 04:51 PM

Valuist

10-03-2005, 04:55 PM

That was CRIMINAL that Unbridled wasn't Horse of the Year. Imagine if Smarty Jones or Afleet Alex won the BC Classic but they gave the award to Mineshaft or Saint Liam?

46zilzal

10-03-2005, 05:03 PM

That was CRIMINAL that Unbridled wasn't Horse of the Year. Imagine if Smarty Jones or Afleet Alex won the BC Classic but they gave the award to Mineshaft or Saint Liam?
used to happen to Western based horses all the time. MOST of the votes are in the East.

toetoe

10-03-2005, 05:10 PM

I thought Ibn Bey won the turf that year. I'm getting my middling BC-winning Euros mixed up, maybe?

46zilzal

10-03-2005, 05:14 PM

04 - Wasn't feeling Lone Star Park & did not make one single play.
there were a LOT of peole feeling, or rather NOT feeling that way. Probably the worst version of the B.C. of all of them

betchatoo

10-03-2005, 05:35 PM

1994 mile. Lure had an outside post (14) that was death at Churchill. I bet Baretha. She paid almost $25. Plus I crushed the tri.

46zilzal

10-03-2005, 05:48 PM

I thought Ibn Bey won the turf that year. I'm getting my middling BC-winning Euros mixed up, maybe?
In The Wings Stevens up

Doc

10-03-2005, 06:35 PM

In 1998, I was sent to cover the BC at Churchill Downs. Michael Dickinson and his girlfriend Joan were up in the pressbox, timing Da Hoss' last work on the turf before the Mile. He was ecstatic - jumping all around, hugging Joan, etc. So I just knew that he had Da Hoss right where he wanted him. I only had $20 left by the time BC Day rolled around (lost most of my bankroll the day before) and plunked it all down on Da Hoss' nose. Jeez, was that sweet! The greatest thing was meeting Andy Beyer in the elevator and touting him on Da Hoss...he dismissed me with a shake of his head and a frown. Remember, Da Hoss was coming off an incredibly long layoff. Anyway, I still get goosebumps thinking about that race. And I'm sure Beyer was still frowning after Da Hoss paid $25 and change.

Overlay

10-03-2005, 07:12 PM

1993 Classic: I bet a year's salary on Arcangues. :rolleyes:

blind squirrel

10-03-2005, 07:42 PM

1993 Classic: I bet a year's salary on Arcangues. :rolleyes:

I guess you liked the turf to dirt move!

i had MISS ALLEGED{43-1} in the 91 turf.

loved CARDMANIA{5-1} in the sprint in 93,EDDIE D{out of the clouds} just
nipped gary stevens on MEAFARA at the wire.

DJofSD

10-03-2005, 08:23 PM

I'm having a little trouble remembering my first BC. I think it was at SA when Pine Tree Lane was one of the runners where I was on track.

I've done some searches of the internet looking for a list of all the winners of the BC races to help job my memory but I'm not finding anything comprehensive.

Any one have a link for a complete list of placings?

DJofSD

kev

10-03-2005, 08:25 PM

The Cajun Beat tri paid $2 = 2,151.70.....Thanks guys it seems I'm always playing win/place and having some fun, not this year. I'm playing what ever comes my way, mostly the two pick 4's and some tri's. I look at it like this, any other weekend I'll be happy with a $300 profit or so, not BC day and Derby day anymore those should be the days I go all in and unload.

DJofSD

10-03-2005, 08:27 PM

1993 Classic: I bet a year's salary on Arcangues.

I wish!

I pegged Go Team Go in that race as the winner. Too bad I only bet it to win. Arggggg!

DJofSD

falconridge

10-03-2005, 09:18 PM

Until a couple of years ago, I never had a mediocre BC day. Typically, I'd alternate between melon-cuttings and train wrecks--though I must admit I've endured a few more of the latter than I've enjoyed of the former. My first BC bet was at Bay Meadows in 1984, when I decided to test the waters with a small ($6--natch, to win) wager on Fran's Valentine, which wager I intended as a hedge against my more substantial outlay ($15) on the theretofore maiden, Outstandingly, in the Juvenile Fillies (if I'd known the late Pete Axthelm had picked Outstandingly, I might not have ventured the three Lincolns). Though I'd have pocketed more had FV's number not been jerked, I felt my judgment vindicated when the stewards moved my primary pick up to the top spot. Flush with the track's money and spry with the added spring in my step, I bounded to the windows with escalated hopes--and wagers: 20 men on boxcar Lashkari (improving, lightly raced 3-y-o coming off a smart score in France; 53-1) and half a hundred on All Along, La Reine, and a gift at 3-1. PA members will recall the younger colt outgaming the gallant mare to take a narrow decision. And so it went, as, for the first time in my life (though it proved to be only the first of several times at that marvelous 84-85 BM meeting), I found myself well over a grand ahead.

The fairy tale day ended somewhat anticlimactically when I talked myself off of Wild Again. I'd seen this guy prep in an overnight at BM, when, in receipt of ten pounds, he battled with a dead-game grey gelding named Pet's Dude, a horse that had run more kindly for me than any other I'd ever backed. (The Dude had done all the work and put away the odds-on favorite in deep stretch, only to lose the ultimate head-bob to a lightly-weighted cloudjumper named Uncle Barrydown.) I started listening to the network pundits and to the Turners (who said they thought Slew Again might be even better than his daddy), and began thinking about just how improbable yet another big upset would be. Though days earlier I'd resolved to bet WA, I wound up cutting loose about a hundred and a half on the chalk. After the race, I heard trainer Vince Timphony thank racing secretary Harry Krovitz "for getting us that race up at Bay Meadows."

That inaugural BC set me on my way to what turned out to be, by a factor of five, the biggest meeting I'd ever had (to this day, the second biggest of my life). I've had a few other successful BC days (as when Cat Thief bailed me out when I looked like I might be going under for the third time), but those will have to wait for other posts.

plainolebill

10-03-2005, 10:41 PM

In the last few years Pleasantly Perfect, Cajun Beat and Better Talk Now stand out for me. In fact they may be my only scores. :D

46zilzal

10-03-2005, 11:57 PM

Helped to defeat Groovy in the 1986 B.C. sprint own by Smile. Groovy had not had anyone to eyeball him all year and "quit" when headed early (his Achilles heel) by this one.

DJofSD

10-04-2005, 12:10 AM

Smile - now I remember! So, 1986 was my first BC but without some additional info I'll never remember my wagers (tossed all of that stuff a long time ago).

DJofSD

P.S. Still looking for a complete list of BC results.

BillW

10-04-2005, 12:19 AM

P.S. Still looking for a complete list of BC results.
At the risk of asking this without reading the thread - what are you looking for? - the Thoroughbred Times Almanac has various results including winners with times etc.

Bill

Overlay

10-04-2005, 12:22 AM

Try this link:

http://www.ntra.com/content.aspx?type=other&id=14281&style=purple&section=breederscup

cnollfan

10-04-2005, 12:24 AM

I have not done well on the Breeders' Cup. Had Cash Run (speed on the rail, Lukas, Bailey) at a nice price in the juvenile fillies one year. About 10 friends get together for a Pick 6 BC syndicate party each year, once we had five of six, lost out when Hesabull got caught near the wire by Elmhurst.

46zilzal

10-04-2005, 02:20 AM

One factor often overlooked on B.C. day is the weather: the Europenas do so much better in the cooler NORTHERN climes and with the wide courses with better turns, the larger venues really help those very late Euopean kickers.

Go back and see how the Europeans did in Florida...woof

TOOZ

10-04-2005, 07:19 AM

JustRalph

10-04-2005, 09:43 AM

hey that reminds me........ I had "better talk now" I touted him in the war room the day before and got plenty of laughs and teasing..........you gotta love this game

Wiley

10-04-2005, 02:31 PM

The first BC in '84 was my best and it has been downhill ever since. Knew enough to play Euro's in the turf and saw that Lashkari was by Mill Reef, an Arc winner, and ran competitively in GR 1's in Europe so played him $5 across the board and a $3 exacta box with who I thought would probably win the great turf mare All Along. Hoping for second but when he glided past AA for the win it became a great day. As Tooz mentions in those days the pools were separate and I played at Jefferson Downs where Lashkari was 80-1 and the exacta was huge, my first signer. The interview with Brough Scott, whatever happened to him?, and Yves St. Martin was hilarious - with Scott pronouncing and proclaiming the greatness of European racehorses and Martin mumbling in French and then he would throw in a couple of English words like .... 'he won'.
I tend to hit one race big usually early then give it back or more. The Classic is my worst race with one chalky win Sunday Silence in 20 years, tons of seconds.
Like other big days of racing stay away from the hype and stick with your handicapping fundamentals. I am big on the horses appearance in the post parade on Cup day because it is the end of a long racing season for most so some will be going off form and look the part.
The race I still get sick to my stomach over was the One Dreamer distaff win in 1994 as I told my friend before the race lone speed can wire this one. Changed my bet in line and came away with nothing - the hype of Sky Beauty, Hollywood Wildcat, and Heavenly Prize got to me, my buddy of course made a nice score on the race. End of the day barely had money to pay my beer tab.

classhandicapper

10-04-2005, 04:06 PM

These were my double digit winners. There were plenty of shorter priced horses.

Proud Truth 16.80
Unbridled 15.20
Pilsudski 29.40
Awesome Again 11.40
Perfect Sting 12.00
Vindication 10.20
Cajun Beat 47.60
Worst beat was Thunderello at 48.70-1 losing in the last few strides to Orientate (2.70 -1) and not having a saver exacta.

JustRalph

10-04-2005, 05:38 PM

Worst beat was Thunderello at 48.70-1 losing in the last few strides to Orientate (2.70 -1) and not having a saver exacta.

I had twenty across on Thunderello...........and like a dumbass didn't have an exacta ticket either..........that was a pisser...........

classhandicapper

10-04-2005, 06:17 PM

I had twenty across on Thunderello...........and like a dumbass didn't have an exacta ticket either..........that was a pisser...........

At least you had him across the board. I ripped up a $50 win ticket and cried myself to sleep. :(

falconridge

10-05-2005, 08:52 PM

1993 Classic: I bet a year's salary on Arcangues. :rolleyes:
Ho there, pinball pal o' mine,

Re the Arcangues coup, two questions:

1) Which year?
2) Whose?

San Mateo Slim
Live to Bertrando

From a Ring Lardner, Jr.-scripted film:

LANCEY "THE MAN" HOWARD (Edward G. Robinson): "This Cincinnati Kid--good, is he?"
SHOOTER (Karl Malden): "Lancey, you know he is!"

rokitman

10-05-2005, 09:51 PM

In the years of the first Breeders Cups, I used to meet by buddy at Garden State for the day. That was also the early days of simulcasting. You could bet many tracks, but each track had their own separate pools for the Breeders Cup races, which no longer exists. Not only did you have to handicap the horses, you then had to go around to all the TV's and handicap which track would give you better odds on your pick. Suffolk might have had your horse at 7-1, Belmont 5-1. Then you had to factor in the time left and all that. Exacta pools were different. Felt like I was in England.

That sounds like fun. For one day, that is. Any more than that would be an express ticket to the looney bin.

The most memorable Breeders Cup day I had was at the Albany Teletheater. Memorable because the girl I was seeing at the time had four straight winners, none of which I had. It was the DaHoss Second Coming year, which she had. At least one other one besides Dahoss was pretty pricey, as I vaguely recall.The first hit I didn't think anything of. After the second, She can't hit another one! After the third, NO WAY she will hit another! This from a guy who firmly believes the Godds of Racing often shine on first-timers, as this was for her. And as I had said to her before we got there, which she kept reminding me as I tore up my tickets, trying not to cry. The final kick in the ass came when she grandly refunded me, out of her championship wad, the money I had given her to bet with after I had hit an early race, "minus a fee for sexual sevices rendered."

toetoe

10-06-2005, 01:19 PM

falconridge

10-06-2005, 03:06 PM

Okay, Pope of the Peninsula, here are three T/F questions for you.

Greg Gilchrist REALLY DID ride his horse into the Hillsdale Inn.
Partner's Hope was unbeatable at BM.
Marine World originated at Belmont, Ca.
toetoe has set a real poser in front of me. I'm going to say "True" to all three, though I'm only sure of the last. Here's why:

There must be at least sixty-eleven PA members who know more about Gilchrist than I do. All I really know for sure is that I rarely got a price on him, and that for at least 20 years the NoCal tracks always used the same publicity photos of him and longtime NoCal colleague Damon Pollard. Both mug shots showed western-shirted dudes, with what appeared to be ten-gallon potato chips atop their noggins. Who but a born-to-the-saddle cowfella would want to cultivate such an image? Ergo, I'll bite at the Granny Goose-style haberdashery, and say that GG did indeed make such an entrance. (I never stayed at the Hillsdale Inn--just a lariat's spin from the Bay Meadows stockyard--myself, but always lodged at the folks' capacious 1100 sq. ft. estate in the tony San Mateo neighborhoods of Fiesta Gardens and Parkside) True.

Partner's Hope campaigned in the early '70s, before the kinfolk had given up hope of discouraging me from mixing with the reprobates and rummies at the track. I do remember catching PH's act over one Thanksgiving break, however. I dimly recall that the discarded Form I picked up before entering the grounds after the seventh race had gone official (when BM would waive its admission charge) showed a lot of "1's" in PH's PPs. And I remember he won that day (T'giving? Friday following T'giving?). It was either the Thanksgiving Day Handicap or the Children's Hospital Handicap. Not much basis for saying he was "unbeatable," but I'll snap at the bait. True.

I do remember Marine World (never visited it), just off the Bayshore Freeway (U.S. 101), on the east side. First MW I know of. I'm not sure when I noticed its finny tribe and cetaceans had relocated to Vallejo--just next door to the Solano Co. Fair--but it must have been at least 20 years ago. With confidence, I say "true."

How'd I do?

toetoe

10-06-2005, 03:38 PM

True or false?: ToeToe's T/F's are always true. That's like "I'm a liar." Don't spend too much agony on that one. Anyway, all true, all the time, right here at KTRU, The Blowtorch, or Mouthpiece, or whatever.

GG looks exactly like an old actor who, I think, appeared in a lot of the 'movies' shown on the old 'Marshal J' show, strictly kids' stuff. He had that Wilbur-from Mr.-Ed look, only twice as hapless. Or would it be half as hapful?

Ah, The Children's Hospital Handicap. A wonderful tradition, usually a good race, a great cause ... no wonder they discontinued it. Also, Cetacean was a winner on turf at --- you KNOW where I'm going with this --- a whale of a price.

rokitman

10-06-2005, 06:02 PM

Rok,
The biggest discrepancy was the place, etc. prices on Vision And Verse in the Belmont Stakes. I think the pools were integrated by then, but for some reason CD had a separate pool on the Belmont Stakes, calling it CD-Race-13, or whatever. Anyway, I think it was a $20 or $30 difference on a $2 place bet. How could we even check something like that? Some things are just buried so deeply in the haystack of history as to be irretrievable.
F'Ridge,
Okay, Pope of the Peninsula, here are three T/F questions for you.

Greg Gilchrist REALLY DID ride his horse into the Hillsdale Inn.
Partner's Hope was unbeatable at BM.
Marine World originated at Belmont, Ca.

Vision and Verse! With Lemon Drop Kid on top! After making my real bets and just seconds before that race, I said to my sister and brother-in-law (big race interlopers), Let's throw $2 bucks a piece in the pot and pick a pricey horse each for a $1 exacta box. Those two picked the whopper exacta! I got my one third of one half of the exacta which still was a handsome $250! It was a little more at Churchill but WAY less at Monmouth, all which was visable at the OTB we were at. Look here http://www.monmouthpark.com/99archives/mb060699.asp

falconridge

10-06-2005, 08:09 PM

GG looks exactly like an old actor who, I think, appeared in a lot of the 'movies' shown on the old 'Marshal J' show, strictly kids' stuff. He had that Wilbur-from Mr.-Ed look, only twice as hapless. Or would it be half as hapful?
I loved "Marshal J"--even more than "Captain Satellite." The gentle, soft-spoken kiddy-show lawman always showed the best 'toons; I was partial to "The Hunter," "Tennessee Tuxedo," and "Mr. Wizard," who, with his "trizzle-trazzle-truzzle-trome" incantation, always had to rescue the foolish Tooter Turtle.

I also well remember the reason for J's extended absence from the Circle J Ranch. One morning the San Francisco Chronicle carried a story about how one Jay Alexander, who after a hard day's ride had apparently munched some loco weed and washed it down with a saddlebagful of firewater, landed a haymaker on the chin of some rustler who happened to find himself at the same cocktail party as Marshal J.

Speaking of Capt. Satellite (Bob March), did you know that the old Starfinder 2 pilot appeared in Magnum Force, the second of the Dirty Harry movies? March even has a line, right at the beginning of the picture. He comments on the trial at which the judge has just punched some Harry-nabbed nogoodniks' tickets to Quentin. Then, like the Starfinder 2 at four o'clock, or just after the Stooges have flung the last pie at Vernon Dent's puss, he disappears.

toetoe

10-06-2005, 09:10 PM

V. Dent and the Gilchrist look-alike are two indelible characters in a kid's memory. Now don't forget Art Finley and Mike Cleary.

falconridge

10-07-2005, 01:54 AM

V. Dent and the Gilchrist look-alike are two indelible characters in a kid's memory. Now don't forget Art Finley and Mike Cleary.
Art Finley I remember well, Mike Cleary less well. Was it Cleary who replaced Marshal J after the cowpoke's brush with the law? I think I remember that Cleary drew cartoons, and occasionally more realistic pictures, in charcoal and what I assume were colored chalks (we had only a black-and-white TV 'til well into the '70s).

One of my earliest memories of an encounter with "celebrity" was a personal appearance by Mayor Art in the Macy's at the Hillsdale Mall in San Mateo. Before anyone realized he'd arrived on the scene, he came up the escalator to the floor on which the toys department was located, put his hand on my sister's shoulder, and said something to me, though I was too excited to make it out, let alone respond.

Later came Pat McCormick, with his pals Charlie and Humphrey, who sounded remarkably alike--and not so very different from McCormick himself. The only other local kiddy host I recall from that time in my life was Sir Sedley, who had, as Skipper Sedley, preceded Mayor Art as the host of the afternoon show that aired all the old Max Fleischer Popeye cartoons. I found Sedley creepy, but I'd put up with him just to see the strong-to-the-finach ('cause he ate his spinach) sailorman.

After Finley's mayoralty, from time to time I'd see his name in the Chronicle, though I can't remember in what connection. Bob "Capt. Satellite" March went on to be an afternoon host on KKHI, the classical radio station. McCormick bought a toupee and became a weather comedian on KTVU, channel 2 ("from Jack London Square in the Port of Oakland") newscasts. Don't know what became of the others.

Here's one for you: Who induced celebrity ringer Willie McCovey, pinch-hitting for Reno Barsocchini in the 1968 P(olice) A(thletic) L(eague) charity softfall game at the Cow Palace, to pop up? Hint: he had a sidekick (more like a foil) named Smith.

I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam, I'm

Falcon the ....

P.S.: Sorry, dudes and dudettes, for unraveling this and other threads with childhood reveries. You never really know where you'll find yourself headed, or what it will be that gets you moving in that direction.

toetoe

10-07-2005, 11:12 AM

F.,

How nice that Uncle Artie grasped your sister's ... ahem, hmm, shoulder.

Anyway, Cleary was Sgt. Sacto, whereas March became Capt. San Francisco. Only Sarge had a show, while Cap'n was a figurehead, I guess. Maybe some light duty at I. Magnin openings, maybe City Of Paris functions.

I'm an expert at inducing folks to THROW up, but the pop-up inducer I'll have to wildly stab at, as in what we call 'O.J. races' at the track. I'll say Barney Google, as his sidekick was Snuffy Smith, sorta. Forgive my amnesia, as I am afflicted with CRS --- Can't Remember SH*#.

How about a backstage look at the making of 'Barney Google And Snuffy Smith?' We'll call it 'Alias Smith And Google' and dedicate it to Peter Duel, nee Deuel.

falconridge

10-07-2005, 12:01 PM

That's it: Sgt. Sacto. KBHK TV, channel 44. Kinda bland, as I recall, which isn't very well, which must make me right about his having been kinda bland. Must've developed his act in another city; didn't catch him too often.

The picture drawer I was thinking of was Jack something or other, and I'm almost sure he replaced Marshal J. I kept hoping Jack ... Hansen!--that's it--was only temporary, but J's exile from the Circle J proved to be as long as Shane's.

The chain-smoking softball lobber was the late Don Sherwood, the real Mr. San Francisco (not that effete three-dot Nob Hill gossipmonger Herb Caen). DS went the distance that night, something he rarely managed on his morning radio show on KSFO. For that PAL game, the KSFO No-Stars went out and got a few ringers of their own, with John Brodie, George Mira (to whom several ML Baseball teams offered large signing bonuses), and Steve Spurrier patrolling the outfield. Lon Simmons, brown-baggin' to the end, was at the mike; and Scott Beach, Mayor Alioto, and Mayor Art were prominent. Meir Kahane, however, was a no-show, as was Willie Mays.

toetoe

10-07-2005, 01:00 PM

How could I forget Jack Hanson, who was a sports anchor fill-in, AND he showed 49'ers highlights at the end of his kids show. Kristine Hansen was a bit cuter, but Jack was the best.

As to no-show, no-call, no-count Kahane, who needed him? Big Kahuna himself, John Miller, was in the stands, surely? Actually, he was still Lil Kahuna at that point.

Sherwood: Smoked right up to his dying day, oxygen tank notwithstanding.

Beach: Should be broadcasting, or at least PA'ing, with that world-class voice.

Mira: QB of record on the play that Jim Marshall ran into history, making a safety and spiking the ball OB.

Ronnie Schell: Come on, I KNOW he had to be there. Maybe Gene (Put on the coffee, Bubbles, I'm comin' home) Nelson, too.

Sidekick Smith: Carter B., perhaps?

falconridge

10-07-2005, 02:19 PM

You've swept the card, toe. Full marks for your human interest comments on Hansen, Sherwood, Beach, Mira, and Schell (according to Dick Smothers, the world's slowest-rising young comedian; and yes, Schell was there, too), and extra points for the bits about Gene Nelson (who that night, despite his BL-TL profile, played shortstop) and Carter Blakemore Smith. Dan Sorkin, who'd recently had a leg amputed following a motorcycle accident, got things underway by riding in on his Harley. And Jack Carney helped Lon out on the play-by-play.

Simmons had clearly overindulged that evening, and already had a noticeable glow on even before Sherwood's initial slo-pitch. Both the Fat Man (Russ Hodges) and the Big Indian (Lon) were well known for that sort of thing. I don't remember Russ being there; maybe by that time he'd already bid us his last "bye-bye baby."

toetoe

10-08-2005, 12:22 AM

Lon once referred to Russ' favorite charity --- J & B, and from the guffaws in the background, I gather that RHoj approved.

toetoe

10-08-2005, 01:30 PM

Am reminded of the first 'concept' or compilation records I ever saw. First was KEWB Disc-overies. Later came KFRC's 21 Golden Rocks. The most interesting was KYA's 21 Golden Gate Greats, as it had pictures of all the D-J's on the back. Who was on there? So glad you asked.

Gene Nelson.
Russ 'The Moose' Syracuse.
Ed Heider(sp.?)
Johnny Holliday.
Sean O'Callahan.
Tommy Saunders, The Prince Of Darkness, and others.

Many later went over to KSFO, to join the Lange Gang, i.e., Dan Sorkin, C.B. Smith, Jim Lange, etc.

JohnGalt1

10-08-2005, 06:43 PM

I have never been to a track on BC day. I always go Friday and put all my bets in--so I can't change them-- and watch at home.

My biggest day was Tiznow's first win. I bet $20 to win, had the tri and super that paid $6600 I think. But I wouldn't have hit it if the photos for second and third didn't go my way.

The best thing was I was unemplyed for most of that year and needed the dough.

I also had Unbridled Elaine to win, but didn't get the pick 3 or tri.

Good luck everybody this year.

The Judge

10-08-2005, 08:32 PM

I went and check some of the results at the Breeders Cup site they have them all, and hey I've done pretty good I just didn't know it. Best, Safely Kept over Dayjur one way, knew I was beat Dayjur jumps the shadow within the last 40 yards. Tiznow to Giants Causeway box. War Chant to North East Bound(42.30-1) had it more times with North East bound to War Chant. Mark Cramer came out with the idea that the Kentucky Derby winner came back and won the Breeders Cup so I had a single on Unbridled. But as with most it what could have been. Had Spain (55.90-1 ) and Surfside (10.30-1) as may top horses TEH sustain if I remeber Riboletta wasn't in the top 3 if memory serves me I put Riboletta on top she ran 7th in a field of 9. Said the winner of the Classic was Alphabet Soup(19.85 to 1) and Cigar would run 3rd (.65-1) but no Louis Quatorze (18-1) in the middle only had Soup in 1st only had Cigar in 3rd. While at Arlington Park this lady from Texas asked in the Classic what horse could not possilby win I looked at the form and told her "Valponi" can't win little did I know she made her biggest bet of the day on "Valponi" $10 WPS could have knocked me over with a feather.

Stillriledup

10-26-2015, 12:21 AM

10 years have gone by, lets update some BC scores!!

Track Phantom

10-26-2015, 01:10 AM

In 1997, my girlfriend and I went up North for a weekend vacation the weekend prior the Breeders' Cup. It was one of these bed and breakfast type get-aways with a hot tub in the room that was right on Lake Superior. It was pretty cool but there was A LOT of down time.

I had printed off the BC past performances that year and, for the first time, really dug into the handicapping. I'd say I spent between 10 and 15 hours of reading and re-reading the PP's.

I had Elmhurst on top in the Sprint (think he won at like 18-1 with Nakatani up). Was a small bettor at the time. I had a $32 pick six ticket and ended up singling Sharp Cat but kept trying to put the entry that included the winner Ajina on the ticket. Just couldn't afford it. That ended up costing me the pick 6 (had 5 of 6).

I don't recall how much I won that day. But, what I do recall, and what stays with me even to this moment. The adage "study long, study wrong" or "paralysis by analysis" is a fallacy. The more scribbling, the more tattered edges and fading my sheets had (in other words the more time I spent with the PP's in advance of the racing day) the sharper I was.

nijinski

10-26-2015, 03:40 AM

Manila was my first , I didn't think anything could beat him on turf ..Drosselmeyer across the board . Mott was not keeping any secrets about how well he trained when they put the bar shoe on and he kept that tender foot protected for the Classic . Distance , no problem. And the price was nice.

tanner12oz

10-26-2015, 06:41 AM

I hit the pick 4 the year blame won

dilanesp

10-26-2015, 02:49 PM

1986: The Manila-Theatrical exacta in the Turf. Dancing Brave was a European shipper who didn't figure to like the firm turf at Santa Anita. Manila and the Theatrical-Estrapade entry were the logical two horses to beat him.

1987: Very Subtle in the Sprint. Groovy was an obvious bet-against (he was probably the single most overrated sprinter in American history, running big speed figures in races beating a nobody named Sun Master and getting to run the first quarter in 23 seconds in a 6 furlong race), and Very Subtle was just really really fast and figured to get the lead. She did. (Person sitting next to me had Epitome in the Juvenile Fillies-- we were pissed we didn't split a daily double ticket which would have paid 4,000 bucks or something.)

1988: Great Communicator in the Turf. Very similar play to Very Subtle-- an overrated New York horse (Sunshine Forever) took all the money.

1989: Steinlen in the Mile. I hammered him based on his Arlington Million win.

1990: Unbridled in the Classic. Weak favorite (Rhythm), and the horse was working well. But I got lucky-- got an amazing ride from Pat Day to win the thing.

1992: Thirty Slews in the Sprint. This was Baffert's first really good horse after switching from quarter horses.

1994: Tikkanen in the turf. Just one of those Breeders' Cup overlays that happen when a good horse goes off at way too high a price.

2001: Banks Hill in the Filly and Mare Turf. She'd beaten a bunch of good colts in Europe, and loved the soft Belmont turf.

Tiznow in the Classic. He had thrown in a clunker in his last race, but the clockers said he looked great coming out of that race.

2003: Six Perfections in the Mile. Another filly who had been beating up on colts in Europe.

Pleasantly Perfect in the Classic. Course specialist at Santa Anita against a handicap division that took turns beating each other.

2012: My best Breeders Cup. First, Calidoscopio in the Marathon-- he was a 2 mile specialist from Argentina who was fine on dirt. He may have given me the greatest single thrill at a racetrack, because he came from 40 lengths back.

And then, a double from Trinniberg in the Sprint to Little Mike in the Turf. Trinniberg was a speedball who had just run in way too many distance races and finally got to run his best distance-- he was sort of like Gulch who also won this race. And Little Mike was a classy turf horse who was a big overlay. The double paid over $700.

2013: Mucho Macho Man in the Classic. I posted that pick here in PA. I was salivating on betting him because he loved Santa Anita so much.

ebcorde

10-26-2015, 03:09 PM

Filly and mare turf. I bet by studying the prior breeder's cup winners of Owners and Trainers. I then Made 6-7 $1 supers for $24 each before racing began that day, 1 horse on top, the rest in 2nd,3rd,4th . The bomb was a stablemate so I threw him in underneath.

I made my Luck that day.

PhantomOnTour

10-26-2015, 04:08 PM

Many memorable longshots:
Anees
Better Talk Now
Pleasant Home
Lahudood
Shared Account

But my best Breeders Cup by a very large margin was last year, when I literally could not miss.
I had:
Bobbys Kitten
Work All Week
Karakontie
Texas Red
Main Sequence
...and if Toast Of New York had fought his way past Bayern in the Classic it would have been the dream day at the races come true.
It was still my best day ever as I hit for five figures in the end.

This year is sure to be a let down...lol

no breathalyzer

10-26-2015, 04:10 PM

Secondbest

10-26-2015, 04:13 PM