BRIS chart parser

[Fatl]

Hey all, is there a bris chart parser out there? I ask because I use andy's parser and it looks like Equibase is going pdf next week

OFFICIAL CHARTS

Click on the track name to view available dates in a calendar format. Effective September 28: This product will require the use of the Adobe Acrobat Reader 5.0 or higher. If you do not have the Reader or have an older version, you may download this program free by clicking the Get Adobe Reader Button.

[cj]

I would imagine BRIS and DRF will do the same shortly, otherwise Equibase is wasting their time.

[linrom1]

Prima facie evidence that racing is doomed as peddlers of useless data are trying to protect content that has no value to just about everyone but a few racing diehards. Just milk the ones that are left as much as possible. Next sign of doom: takeout is going to go up everywhere.

[sjk]

What are the alternatives for reasonable purchase of chart data? I'm not interested in using anyone else's program or proprietary numbers just the basic chart data in usuable form.

It really stinks that Equibase which is largely owned by the tracks is doing its best to chase away players that have placed millions of dollars in bets over the years.

You really have to wonder if racing is going to be around for the long haul with some of the decisions that are being made.

[Vegas711]

Posttime, for $ 75.00 per month for unlimited downloads or .75c per track per day. For the past month they have had some problems becouse equibase has made changes in their code .They are working on correcting the problem.

www.posttimedaily.com (http://www.posttimedaily.com)

[Vegas711]

At this time their web site is down.

[Tom]

What are the alternatives for reasonable purchase of chart data? I'm not interested in using anyone else's program or proprietary numbers just the basic chart data in usuable form.

It really stinks that Equibase which is largely owned by the tracks is doing its best to chase away players that have placed millions of dollars in bets over the years.

You really have to wonder if racing is going to be around for the long haul with some of the decisions that are being made.

I think ALL charts available are grossly over priced.
I have not seen any source to buy that I would spend half the dough they cahrge. Without the parser, I will probably not play near as many tracks
anymore.
Couple that with the serious doubt I have as racing's integrity and I may not play any track much anymore. I can take uncovering cheating and then deling with it, but when they just ignore it, I have to wonder....and NYRA is definately off my play list. About the only way I'll senf any money to NY is if Wal Mart gets the franchise and levels the track in favor of a super store.

[Overlay]

With the general discouragement and skepticism I've noted on the board with the directions in which racing is going, are we board members being rational by continuing to follow the sport and (especially) by continuing to risk money on its outcomes? Are we relying solely on "inside information" and behind-the-scenes maneuvers which are not known to the general public as a basis for wagering decisions? Or do a significant number of players still believe that there is a systematic, objective means of analyzing recurring performance patterns contained in published information that can serve as a basis for consistent wagering success? Count me as part of the latter group, but I'm increasingly wondering how many still feel that way.

[lefthandlow]

Is there a program that will convert the pdf file back to html??LL

[bobbyb]

CovertPDF - Try This

www.DownloadGrid.com

bobbyb

"it hurts ($$$) when your drinking coffee, ya sneeze, and the coffee hits the laptop" :mad:

[bobbyb]

ooopp's after posting downloadgrid site, (which is enormous) - you can follow the link below directly.

PDF conversion software to HTML

www.iceni.com/content/Gemini

bobbyb

[sjk]

One could spend several hours writing a parser for that gobbledegook.

[cj]

A parser would be fairly simple to write for DRF or BRIS for my needs, but I see no reason to believe they won't follow suit soon. I'll wait a little while and see how this all shakes out.

Equibase sells charts for $15 a month, but don't know if they will also switch to PDF as well.

[sjk]

It appears from their web page that they will. I don't have a problem with paying for the html charts or equivalent data. I just don't know where to get them.

[cj]

It appears from their web page that they will. I don't have a problem with paying for the html charts or equivalent data. I just don't know where to get them.

The guy below posted a link where comma delimited charts are available unlimited for $75 a month. That seems a little steep to me. I don't see anything on BRIS/TSN/DRF mentioning anything about this yet. I know DRF had something in the works, and they looked very nice, but I haven't heard anything lately or know what the pricing might be.

[linrom1]

The guy below posted a link where comma delimited charts are available unlimited for $75 a month. That seems a little steep to me. I don't see anything on BRIS/TSN/DRF mentioning anything about this yet. I know DRF had something in the works, and they looked very nice, but I haven't heard anything lately or know what the pricing might be.


Are these comma delimited charts at DRF?

[cj]

Yes, they are, but they are not being offered yet.

[Grifter]

From the comma-delimited charts I have seen (BRIS and TSN), there is no "Race Summary" provided. There may be other elements of data that do not translate friom HTML and PDF to comma-delimited format, but that's one crucial item.

CJ -- Have you seen the DRF comma-delinited charts? Does it include race summaries for each runner?

Parsing PDF -- My guess is that the use of either PDF parsers or OCR programs is problematic. The only reason to do that is to defeat what Equibase in it's wisdom wants to avoid: chart databasing. Running PDF through a parser or OCR to extract text elements, then further parsing the results to make the chart data useful, is probably too much work.

-- Grifter

[cj]

I have seen them, but it was several months ago and I honestly don't remember if that was included. I have the file format at home, I'll look it up when I get there.

[BIG49010]

I've used bris for years, and they cost a little more but they save me time, and the data matches the information in there drf files, which is a problem I have run into when you mix and match for prices.

I would love a less expensive solution, so I could play more tracks, so if anybody finds one post it.

[Lou G]

Check this link - it's not the only one out there and not really cheap, but might be good if you want to import chart data into home-grown software or a spreadsheet...

http://www.pdftoall.com/ld-getter.htm

[cj]

I have yet to find a PDF to text or PDF to HTML that can handle the beaten lengths, you always get funny symbols.

[sjk]

Probably a simple exercise to make a translation table for the funny characters; not that I am looking forward to writing a new parser.

I am still hoping others will post some reasonable alternatives even at a modest cost.

[highnote]

I suppose one could use file sharing of the certain industy comma-delimited charts -- a la Napster, Kazaa or BitTorrent.

I'm sure the industry data sellers would love to see this happen. :D

But I don't blame those who might share files.

[NoDayJob]

I have yet to find a PDF to text or PDF to HTML that can handle the beaten lengths, you always get funny symbols.

Are you familiar with these conversion programs?

http://www.convertspot.com/?gp2t

NDJ [AKA Troll #1]

[highnote]

Are you familiar with these conversion programs?

http://www.convertspot.com/?gp2t

NDJ [AKA Troll #1]

I'm still not sure these will translate all the characters. I think DRF uses more than just text in the PDF charts. I think someone told me they also use images in their PDF charts. You'd need optical character recognition software for them or else you'd need to figure out what each symbol represents. I don't think OCR works that well on DRF PDF charts.

For all the work it would take to write software you may as well just buy the comma delimited charts from a data provider.

However, here are some illegal options for you rebels out there:

1. Find a programmer to do it for you and have about 20 or 30 people pay the programmer so it is worth his/her while. Problem is there would need to be occasional updates to the software.

2. Find a person who buys comma delimited charts and is willing to do file sharing. Then send that person some money for his/her time. If you find enough people to share files using Kazaa or BitTorrent the cost would be very low.

Here are a couple legal options:

1. Stop betting U.S. races and bet German, Argentine or UK races. They give away their charts for free. Of course, you'll still need someone to write parsing software.

2. Start up a handicapping service geared toward players. Buy the data from the Equibase monopoly (or is it a cartel?) and then sell it back to yourself at a discount along with other handicapping products. Of course, then you'd have to spend all your time running a business rather than betting the horses.

3. Start handicapping publicly traded companies. When you find an overlay, buy shares in the company. A lot more players have made fortunes in the stock market than in the horse racing market.

Just some ideas. Maybe not the best, but they're a start.

[sjk]

A few minutes of looking at the characters in the superscripts seems to indicate:

ansi 166= 1
167= 2
168= 3
170= 5
199= hd
201= nk
244= 1/2
245= 1/4
246= 3/4

I'm still mad as hell and just beginning with the phone calls and e-mails to tracks and people I have dealings with in the racing industry since it seems to me that with the take-out on my bets over the years well up into the 6 figures I should be treated as a valued customer and not as some pest to be stomped out.

I sure hope that Equibase is reading the posts.

[BIG49010]

When you decide what country or what stock I'm in.:bang:

[highnote]

I'm still mad as hell and just beginning with the phone calls and e-mails to tracks and people I have dealings with in the racing industry since it seems to me that with the take-out on my bets over the years well up into the 6 figures I should be treated as a valued customer and not as some pest to be stomped out.

I sure hope that Equibase is reading the posts.

I hope they're reading, too. As consumers about the only power we have is the money we spend. There are alternative ways to spend our money.

The AG of Connecticut told XpressBet to close my account. Did XpressBet put up a fight to keep these Connecticut accounts open?

I wrote software to scrape tote data off of BRIS Supertote. They don't want me to use software to read their HTML toteboard -- even though I bet at BRISBET/AmericaTab with the data I glean from Supertote.

Racing customers are not treated very well by some racing organizations. I have to wonder why these companies are in business.

I run my own business. To me, the customer comes first. I get some ridiculous requests, but I try to meet them.

I just don't see the harm in scraping html data or being able to buy racing data at a reasonable cost.

I guess the problem is that the high tech handicappers are ahead of the curve. We have devised ways to bet multiple tracks, but the industry seems intent on preventing us from betting multiple tracks.

Oh well. What's the point. It's probably falling on deaf ears.

I haven't bet with XpressBet, BRISBET or CT-OTB for awhile now. I can't say that I miss it. The industry people should heed this advice: Once they lose a customer, it is very difficult to get them back.

I'll give you an example:

I read a stock market book called "Trading for a Living". It's written by a psychiatrist. He says that before you start trading you need to make sure you're not a compulsive gambler. In order to test that, you should take 30 days off from betting. If you can't go 30 days without betting, then you probably have a gambling problem.

I tried it. I went 30 days without betting. In fact, I went about 3 months. I didn't miss it at all. I found plenty of other things to do. I didn't realize what a pain in the ass it was feeling like I had to keep up with racing everyday.

Now that all my accounts are being closed, I just may give it up again. Aside from PA, I honestly don't know if I can can say I've gotten as much out of the industry as I've put in. I'll have to give that some thought.

[Tom]

On line poker just might be a lot more profitable and fun than patronizing a greedy industry like horse racing.

The only thing I need out of these precious charts is the damned restrictions on a race and I can't get it anywhere. Trackmaster is the only place I have seen the data I need and thier files are way too procey for a damn cahrt, and too often thier files are just plain unusable due to lack of quality control. TM is a piss poor seller of data. DRF is no help, since they, for some unknown reason, do not offer all tracks in the Winner's Book so you could even hand type in info.
I guess it is time to reevaluate what information I really need and just say NO to data sellers.

[NoDayJob]

Not sure if it will work with symbols though. Easy PDF to Text Converter 2.0 near the bottom of the page.

http://downloads-zdnet.com.com/3120-20-0.html?qt=pdf+converter&tg=dl-2001

NDJ [AKA Troll #1]

[GameTheory]

Looked at sample PDF of the new "charts plus" (the pay version of their charts) today. The PDF is encrypted, so I'll assume the free version is going to be as well -- most of those converters aren't going to work. (DRF pdf charts are unencrypted, btw.)

There is no indication that BRIS/TSN/DRF aren't all going to continue offering HTML charts, so there's that. I'm not sure if they are as complete as the Eq ones....

[Steveh]

I'm still not sure these will translate all the characters. I think DRF uses more than just text in the PDF charts. I think someone told me they also use images in their PDF charts. You'd need optical character recognition software for them or else you'd need to figure out what each symbol represents. I don't think OCR works that well on DRF PDF charts.

For all the work it would take to write software you may as well just buy the comma delimited charts from a data provider.

However, here are some illegal options for you rebels out there:

1. Find a programmer to do it for you and have about 20 or 30 people pay the programmer so it is worth his/her while. Problem is there would need to be occasional updates to the software.

2. Find a person who buys comma delimited charts and is willing to do file sharing. Then send that person some money for his/her time. If you find enough people to share files using Kazaa or BitTorrent the cost would be very low.


You've made some good suggestions. It's a shame Equibase is so greedy. If these files start getting shared on p2p then guys will eventually be trading drf files on p2p too. The thing Equibase doesn't understand is that they are insulting a lot of people's intelligence. If they insult long enough someone will try to make an @ss of them. Can't be done? Look at the free software websites that operate from Russia or the Orient.

[Steveh]

Looked at sample PDF of the new "charts plus" (the pay version of their charts) today. The PDF is encrypted, so I'll assume the free version is going to be as well -- most of those converters aren't going to work. (DRF pdf charts are unencrypted, btw.)

There is no indication that BRIS/TSN/DRF aren't all going to continue offering HTML charts, so there's that. I'm not sure if they are as complete as the Eq ones....

I know the old chartgrabber cannot get charts from other than Equibase. It would sure be nice to have a selection DRF, EQ, Bris, TSN.

Along this line the TPX files give parser stomach acid because of the "all weather track". That can be edited out and replaced with Dirt and it'll make an xrd. This info is no good now though :-(

[highnote]

You've made some good suggestions. It's a shame Equibase is so greedy. If these files start getting shared on p2p then guys will eventually be trading drf files on p2p too. The thing Equibase doesn't understand is that they are insulting a lot of people's intelligence. If they insult long enough someone will try to make an @ss of them. Can't be done? Look at the free software websites that operate from Russia or the Orient.


I don't know what the best answer is. Here is my understanding of how the data side of the racetrack industry works. Someone please feel free to correct any errors.

Equibase is a company that is a consortium of racetracks. In a sense, Equibase is the racetrack industry's data provider. They are a monopoly as far as I can tell. Equibase grants licenses to data resellers -- like BRIS, Posttimedaily, HDW, etc.

These companies sell value added data -- well, at least in theory. I had an employee at one of these companies tell me once, "The only difference between the handicapping software we sell is that the better ones take longer to figure out that they don't win." I don't know whether he was joking or serious. I digress.

So anyway, these reseller companies sell value added data. And they pay a fee to Equibase for a license to resell data. I imagine the fee is fairly large.

So, since these licensed resellers are trying to sell data for which they are paying a hefty license I am fairly certain they don't want anyone getting the data for free. They are probably concerned that the person getting free data might resell it and have an unfair advantage since the unlicensed company does not have a huge license fee to pay to Equibase. However, I have never heard of anyone selling raw data for which they paid nothing.

There are companies who are selling handicapping info who are not licensed by Equibase. However these companies buy their data from a licensed reseller and then add their own value.

The thing about many of the players here on PA is that we want to add our own value to the raw data. We are mavericks. But the problem is that the data is too expensive. Some of us are just hobbyists and we like to massage the data to see what we can come up with. Some of us are just data grease monkeys. We like getting into the data and getting our hands dirty.

We all know the takeouts are too high. If we made a lot of money betting, I'm sure none of us would mind paying for data. But since it is very difficult, if not impossible to make a lot of money betting against a 17% average takeout, we don't have a lot of money to spend on buying data.

So I wonder if the tracks make enough money from data sales to justify the high cost of data? Anybody know how much racetracks get back from Equibase in royalties? Wouldn't they be better off selling less expensive data so we could develop better systems that have the potential to make more money. The more money we make, the more we can bet, the more the tracks will make. The more the tracks make, the higher the purses. The higher the purses, the better the racing. The better the racing, the bigger the handle. The bigger the handle, the more tracks make. ETC ETC ETC.

See it's simple. I call it the "Trickle Down and then Back Up Theory". Tracks provide inexpensive data and everybody ends up making more money.

Here's a hypothetical question: For one month, no one can sell, buy or provide or use any horse racing data. What would happen to handle?

[Steveh]

So, since these licensed resellers are trying to sell data for which they are paying a hefty license I am fairly certain they don't want anyone getting the data for free. They are probably concerned that the person getting free data might resell it and have an unfair advantage since the unlicensed company does not have a huge license fee to pay to Equibase. However, I have never heard of anyone selling raw data for which they paid nothing.


I hope my message didn't seem to suggest that someone compete against Equibase with thier own product. That wasn't my intent. I was just trying to point out that when a product or service is not fairly priced it insults customers that buy from them. If you challenge and/or insult enough people there will be some in the bunch that will simply put thier heads together and trade files so it's more affordable, others might try to use p2p, and sooner or later someone will want to send the insult back and EQ might find they have competition in Hong Kong that is giving the files away.

I am not trying to sound arrogant or threatening because that isn't what my post is about. My post will hopefully be read by EQ. My message is that EQ sells a service and I really feel they are shooting a hole in thier foot. Nobody wants to steal but we all want to be treated fairly. There are a lot of voices in here that feel they are being stiffed, they are upset about it, and they are your customers!

[NoDayJob]

There's nothing to prevent a confederation of handicappers on this or any other forum from buying information from Equibase just like the other resellers. Say for instance a group of 500 handicappers paid a fee of $20.00 per month. That adds up to $10,000.00 per month. I doubt Equibase gets more than that amount per month, from the present resellers. Set up an LLC as the operating unit and each participant would be issued one voting share. Elect your operating officers, et cetera. For $240.00 per year you'd have all the information you want and you could do with it what you want, except re-sell or re-distribute it. Will it happen, probably not. Just a thought.

NDJ [AKA Troll #1]

[GameTheory]

I sincerely believe Equibase does not want you to buy stuff from them, or download their charts at all. They offer them since they maintain the database anyway and it is basically a token gesture. They make you go through like 14 steps to download even some of the free products like meet statistics.

I think what they want you to do is goto TSN or BRIS or DRF -- one of *their* clients that pays a data fee -- and get your stuff from them. I don't think they care at all if you goto BRIS, download THEIR html charts, parse them, and database them. Equibase wants to protect the companies that buy their data (like BRIS) from "freeloaders" downloading off of the Equibase site but I don't think they care about protecting TSN (which is a bad example because BRIS & TSN are owned by the same people) from people downloading off the BRIS site. BRIS/TSN/DRF are after all in competition with one another (in theory) and so that's ok. And BRIS/TSN don't have restrictive terms & conditions posted all over their site like Equibase does. I don't think they have any posted anywhere, actually. So if you want free HTML charts, they are still going to be available (it seems) from at least 3 sources. The companies that buy Equibase data in order to sell it back to you have an interest in keeping you the customer happy (even though they do a bad job of it), but Equibase itself does not and seems not a care a bit about the end-user, only about the middle-men they sell to.

Of course, if Equibase was truly interested in its mission statement of "promoting the sport of throughbred racing" it would do its best to spoon-feed you all the free data it could, because that would get you betting on throughbreds. But they don't seem to really be interested much in promoting racing, only in keeping their monopoly intact. I'm a little unclear about Equibase as a company -- WHO profits from their profits? Who is the actual owner of Equibase? It says a partnership between the racing associations and the jockey club, but it would seem to me that those people would be interested in promoting and expanding the sport, not keep it in a choke-hold by restricting access as much as they can. It makes no sense. I swear to God that there is some secret rule that to get ahead in the racing industry you have to prove that you failed Economics 101...

[rokitman]

I I swear to God that there is some secret rule that to get ahead in the racing industry you have to prove that you failed Economics 101...

That is not true, mister! I have been consistently disproving your theory for many years! HA!

Off topic but since all the smart guys seem to be in this thread..is a betting exchange with no take illegal? As I understand it, only when there is a "house" collecting a take does a game of skill become illegal. I know this applies to poker. They busted some guys a few years ago who had a money poker game going on for years as they commuted on a train from upstate NY to NYC. It was thrown out for just this reason. That is, no "house."

REVOLUTION.

[highnote]

That is not true, mister! I have been consistently disproving your theory for many years! HA!

Off topic but since all the smart guys seem to be in this thread..is a betting exchange with no take illegal? As I understand it, only when there is a "house" collecting a take does a game of skill become illegal. I know this applies to poker. They busted some guys a few years ago who had a money poker game going on for years as they commuted on a train from upstate NY to NYC. It was thrown out for just this reason. That is, no "house."

REVOLUTION.


I was trying to find that poker case recently. Do you remember any more specifics?

[GameTheory]

I believe some states have exceptions for "social gambling", but some states don't. Around here (in Denver) they have organized poker games in bars and restaurants. I'm not sure if that means they are having a tournament so you are playing with chips to win a fixed prize or they are just setting up space for poker players so they can sell them drinks.

In any case, if you find that no-take betting exchange, let me know...

[Whirlaway]

Off topic but since all the smart guys seem to be in this thread..is a betting exchange with no take illegal? As I understand it, only when there is a "house" collecting a take does a game of skill become illegal. I know this applies to poker. They busted some guys a few years ago who had a money poker game going on for years as they commuted on a train from upstate NY to NYC. It was thrown out for just this reason. That is, no "house."

REVOLUTION.

I think Howard Ledherer of poker fame got arrested for running his own pool in Vegas a while back. He had a storefront operation (run by his mother!) that matched his sports bets with other gamblers with no vig involved. He got raided and shut down, but I don't think his case ever went to trial.

On the other hand the Iowa Electronic Maket (http://www.biz.uiowa.edu/iem/) has been in operation for years with seemingly no legal problems. I do wonder what the law is here.

[rokitman]

I was trying to find that poker case recently. Do you remember any more specifics?


Sorry, no. All I recall is what I outlined already. What kind of specifics are you looking for? Maybe you'll jog my memory.

[Whirlaway]

It would actually be very easy to create your own low-tech betting exhange. All you'd need is a bulletin boad (hosted offshore preferably). Then you could make a post like this:

Belmont 9/28 Race 1

Offering:

1. 9/5
2. 4/1
3. 6/1
4 5/2
5 10/1
6. 8/1

Max Wager $20


Then someone could reply:

Take $10 on 6.

As long as you could trust the timestamp on the BB, this would work very well. Big problem would be settlement, since this is the kind of thing that Paypal would sniff out pretty quick, I think.

[rokitman]

I think Howard Ledherer of poker fame got arrested for running his own pool in Vegas a while back. He had a storefront operation (run by his mother!) that matched his sports bets with other gamblers with no vig involved. He got raided and shut down, but I don't think his case ever went to trial.

On the other hand the Iowa Electronic Maket (http://www.biz.uiowa.edu/iem/) has been in operation for years with seemingly no legal problems. I do wonder what the law is here.

Yeah, I'd expect Vegas would be about the last place you'd get away with something like that. That Iowa exchange is very interesting. Those dudes might know something about my original question of Is a no-take exchange legal? If it is, and somebody starts moving on it, I bet "racing" would, allofasudden, be able to rationalize a 5% exchange of their own. I mean, I know that they are currently so busted up by the prospect of us getting robbed by someone fixing a race and profiting from it on an exchange that they can't think straight. I bet they are even seriously considering lowering their penetration from 20% to 19.5% to save us from those dastardly thieves.

REVOLUTION.

[rokitman]

It would actually be very easy to create your own low-tech betting exhange. All you'd need is a bulletin boad (hosted offshore preferably).

If it was found that a no-take US exchange is legal, I think the thing to do would be to go to IbetX. They are already all set up for it. They already take a lot of US tracks. And they currently pull in about $7 a day in commissions on them. There's other ways for them to profit if a whole lot of Americans show up to play there on a legal exchange. Goldenpalace.com does things like buy $28,000 grilled cheese sandwiches just for the publicity.

[EQUIPACE]

Game Theory,

I just sent you a private message!

Thanks!

John
~¿o

[highnote]

Sorry, no. All I recall is what I outlined already. What kind of specifics are you looking for? Maybe you'll jog my memory.

I thought they were Connecticut residents -- and one of them was a lawyer. They were arrested on the train while playing poker -- which they had been doing for years (I think?). I think it was the same four guys who rode the train together and they played poker on the ride home.

Anyway, they won the case because it was a private game.

I don't see why a group of people could not play a private game over the internet. The problem for the operator of the game is that it might involve a lot of time (not to mention trust between the other players) to keep track of the bets. So it's not worth it for free.

But I don't think it would be illegal for 4 or 5 friends to get together over the internet and play poker for real money on a private table -- if that kind of software was available. Maybe it is on Yahoo games? Actually, it would be fake money -- until they settled up at a future date.

[rokitman]

Yeah, they had been playing for years. CT residents sounds right. Check out the links below. Scroll down, there's some related articles.

http://poker.bongomedia.com/data/month/m-200503


http://www.poker.net/headlines/news/default.htm

[highnote]

Thanks for the links. Lots of good articles.

[BIG49010]

Anybody having any luck with the new pdf's as far as converting to html?

Or is it this? :bang:

[NoDayJob]

Anybody having any luck with the new pdf's as far as converting to html?

Or is it this? :bang:

The properties table shows the PDF files are encrypted.

NDJ [AKA Troll #1]

[Steveh]

two files attached. Does anyone know if they have been decrypted? The old eqparser seems to make a file but there's nothing in the xrd folder. I guess I won't attach them because they are 100+ kb and too big. If anyone wants to look at them I will send a private msg.

[punchsaw]

Perhaps Andy would consider writing a parser for BRIS charts?
I'd be willing to pay for it. :)

[BillW]

The properties table shows the PDF files are encrypted.

NDJ [AKA Troll #1]

Print the chart to a file - now you have a postscript file (Windows experts - how do you get the file to be postscript? any special cajoling?) which should be convertable to ASCII.

Bill

[GameTheory]

Perhaps Andy would consider writing a parser for BRIS charts?Nope.

[DJofSD]

Perhaps Andy would consider writing a parser for BRIS charts?
I'd be willing to pay for it.

There's been other discussions previously about parsing results charts. Use the search function to locate some of them.

You can download comma delimited results files which makes it easy to import into an Excel spreadsheet. I believe Thomas Maximus Postimus does that.

DJofSD

[punchsaw]

There's been other discussions previously about parsing results charts. Use the search function to locate some of them.

You can download comma delimited results files which makes it easy to import into an Excel spreadsheet. I believe Thomas Maximus Postimus does that

I've searched and cannot find anything along those lines.
Where would Thomas be downloading these csv files.
He must pay a premium for them.

The whole point of this is that the chart prices out there are absolutely outrageous!

[BillW]

I've searched and cannot find anything along those lines.
Where would Thomas be downloading these csv files.
He must pay a premium for them.



I subscribe to the TSN $59/Mo. .pcs file special. Results files are included with that - otherwise they are $0.25 ea. (there I go again trusting my memory :rolleyes: )

Bill

[punchsaw]

I subscribe to the TSN $59/Mo. .pcs file special. Results files are included with that - otherwise they are $0.25 ea. (there I go again trusting my memory )


With all due respect. I still think the $59/Mo. is way out of line.

[highnote]

I think Charts are $79/mo on posttimedaily.com. Results are cheaper.

[BillW]

I subscribe to the TSN $59/Mo. .pcs file special. Results files are included with that - otherwise they are $0.25 ea. (there I go again trusting my memory )


With all due respect. I still think the $59/Mo. is way out of line.

I was answering the question.

Where would Thomas be downloading these csv files.


The files are $0.25 ea. the $59 is for the whole data subscription.

[punchsaw]

I was answering the question.

Those files at .25 each are not csv files, they are html file.
We can already get those free. We just don't have a way of parsing them.

[BillW]

I was answering the question.

Those files at .25 each are not csv files, they are html file.
We can already get those free. We just don't have a way of parsing them.

I've written software to process and import these files and I'm fairly confident that they are .csv files. Yes TSN has .html charts which are free.

[GameTheory]

TSN Advantage plan:

"For a flat monthly fee of only $59.95, TSN Advantage Plan members are entitled to unlimited Quick Play PP's, unlimited Insider Picks & Power Plays Selection Sheets, and unlimited ProCAPS software datafiles, and exotic result files. In addition, TSN Advantage Plan members receive "Preferred" membership rates on all other TSN products."

Procaps datafiles are PP files in comma-delimited format with file specs provided on the site. So you can do what you want with them, and also use their ProCaps software, naturally.

Exotic results files are comma-delimited files with winners & payoffs, but without full chart info, correct?

I know at least a couple of people that have made massive Access databases that did everything you could want using these files. It is not a bad option...

[BillW]

Exotic results files are comma-delimited files with winners & payoffs, but without full chart info, correct?

I know at least a couple of people that have made massive Access databases that did everything you could want using these files. It is not a bad option...

Yes they are lacking intermediate call positions.

http://www.tsnhorse.com/downloads/xrd.txt

I use these files in addition to Bris charts (yea, I got lucky and by chance chose to import Bris charts instead of Equibase :jump: ) to get the complete results.

[punchsaw]

I use these files in addition to Bris charts (yea, I got lucky and by chance chose to import Bris charts instead of Equibase ) to get the complete results.

I'm interested in pace and speed, so I need internal points of call and beaten lengths. The files you people are speaking of are of no use to me.
Thanks anyway.

[Brian Flewwelling]

I'm interested in pace and speed, so I need internal points of call and beaten lengths. The files you people are speaking of are of no use to me.
Thanks anyway.

Punchsaw, you said earlier that you were willing to pay for such a program.
Then you said everything else was too expensive.

How much would you be willing to pay? And what are you looking for as far as output -- details and format?

[punchsaw]

Punchsaw, you said earlier that you were willing to pay for such a program.
Then you said everything else was too expensive.

How much would you be willing to pay? And what are you looking for as far as output -- details and format?

Yes everything else is too expensive.
Go to brisnet.com and take a look at a sample of their import chart files.
That is the format and the details that I want.
Unfortunately they are charging $1 a chart for those files.
Sorry, but that is just way out of line.

As far as a parser goes...I'd probably pay $100 to $150 for it.
It does save alot of time.
Take care!

[NoDayJob]

http://www.verypdf.com/pdf2txt/pdf2txt.htm

NDJ [AKA Troll #1]

[rokitman]

It's those gadamn off-shore books' fault!

http://www.equibase.com/news/releases/100405release.cfm

[Brian Flewwelling]

http://www.verypdf.com/pdf2txt/pdf2txt.htm

NDJ [AKA Troll #1]

it does not work on the SECURE pdf files from Equibase.

Why do you keep posting these links without checking them?

[GameTheory]

It's those gadamn off-shore books' fault!

http://www.equibase.com/news/releases/100405release.cfmAre off-shore books too cheap to get comma-delimited charts? Or use BRIS html charts? If Equibase thinks it is going to slow them down for one day, they're being silly...

[headhawg]

it does not work on the SECURE pdf files from Equibase.

Why do you keep posting these links without checking them?
And it doesn't appear that current pdf...uh...decrypters will work either.

[BIG49010]

Can you still get the works files with Chartget?

[GameTheory]

Can you still get the works files with Chartget?Nope.

[ranchwest]

You've made somewhat of an incorrect assumption. Equibase bought out Track Master, so they do have a stake in the direct sales of data.

[rokitman]

Are off-shore books too cheap to get comma-delimited charts? Or use BRIS html charts? If Equibase thinks it is going to slow them down for one day, they're being silly...

I think we'll be seeing The Off-shore Race Book Card being played by all the entities of US racing sometime soon.

I wonder if there is any reward for your where-abouts, Mr. Mother of All Scrapers!

[punchsaw]

No they have made that inaccessible as well! :(

[rokitman]

Now you've gone and got me crying, Punch :(

[NoDayJob]

it does not work on the SECURE pdf files from Equibase.

Why do you keep posting these links without checking them?

************************************************** *********

This is the printout that the company sent me, using their program.

NDJ [AKA Troll #1]

BELMONT PARK - October 2, 2005 - Race 1
CLAIMING - For Thoroughbred Three Year Old and Upward Open (NW2 L)
One Mile On The Dirt Track Record: (Najran - 1:32.24 - May 7, 2003)
Purse: $25,000
Available Money: $25,000
Value of Race: $25,000 1st $15,000, 2nd $5,000, 3rd $2,500, 4th $1,250, 5th $750, 6th $125, 7th $125, 8th $125, 9th $125
Weather: Clear Track: Fast
Off at: 1:01 Start: Good for all

Pgm Horse Name (Jockey) Wgt M/E PP Start 1/4 1/2 3/4 Str Fin Odds Comments
4 Major Jonathan (Fragoso, Pablo) 121 - 4 5 41/2 61 31/2 31 1/2 11 2.40* along in time outside
3 Susanne's Honor (Castellano, Javier) 118 L bcf 3 6 11/2 11/2 1Head 1Head 2Head 11.10 stayed on stubbornly
7 Olydar (Chavez, Jorge) 118 L 7 3 21 21 21 1/2 21/2 32 1/4 3.05 outfinished
6 Sahm Iahm (Morales, Pablo) 114 L b 6 7 9 9 5Head 4Head 42 4.40 had no rally
2 Senor Nicky (Arroyo, Jr., Norberto) 118 L b 2 8 5Head 4Head 41/2 52 53/4 16.50 inside, no response
1 Guy Getaway (Coa, Eibar) 121 L bc 1 9 82 71/2 61 1/2 62 1/2 63/4 8.80 had no rally
5 Kid Hendrix (Hill, Channing) 113 L c 5 4 6Head 81/2 82 73 1/2 76 7.50 3 wide trip, tired
8 Wholehearted (Jara, Fernando) 121 L f 8 2 3Head 3Head 71/2 84 1/2 82 1/4 14.70 tired after a half
9 Finnegans in Again (Daniel, Clarence) 121 L bf 9 1 7Head 5Head 9 9 9 49.00 chased 4 wide, tired

Fractional Times: 23.63 47.39 1:11.90 Final Time: 1:37.05

Winner: Major Jonathan, Chestnut Gelding, by Major Impact out of Emmy Lou, by Deputy Minister. Foaled Apr 01, 2001 in Florida.
Breeder: Harold J. Plumley. Winning Owner: RB and L Stable

1 Claimed Horse(s): Major Jonathan New Trainer: Scott A. Lake New Owner: Scott A. Lake

Claiming Prices: 4 - Major Jonathan: $35,000; 3 - Susanne's Honor: $35,000; 7 - Olydar: $35,000; 6 - Sahm Iahm: $35,000; 2 - Senor
Nicky: $35,000; 1 - Guy Getaway: $35,000; 5 - Kid Hendrix: $35,000; 8 - Wholehearted: $35,000; 9 - Finnegans in
Again: $35,000;

Total WPS Pool: $238,597
Pgm Horse Win Place Show Wager Type Winning Numbers Payoff Pool
4 Major Jonathan 6.80 4.30 3.30 $2 Exacta 4-3 92.00 239,027
3 Susanne's Honor 10.80 6.70 $2 Trifecta 4-3-7 268.00 160,791
7 Olydar 3.10

Trainers: 4 - Dunham, Bob; 3 - Weaver, George; 7 - Asmussen, Steven; 6 - Barbara, Robert; 2 - Ortiz, Juan; 1 - McLaughlin, Kiaran; 5 - Zito, Nicholas; 8 -
Martin, Sr., Frank; 9 - Jerkens, Steven

Owners: 4 - RB and L Stable; 3 - R.C. Hill Stable; 7 - Olstein, Robert and Karen; 6 - W. Vee Stable; 2 -Robert Perez; 1 -John Marulli; 5 - My Meadowview
Farm; 8 - Flying Zee Stable; 9 - Jerkens, Joan, Gnerre, Angelo, Steinhardt, Sheri, Daly, Thomas, Bookasta, Geor;

Footnotes
MAJOR JONATHAN raced close up early, came wide for the drive and was along in time from the outside, driving. SUSANNE'S HONOR was hustled to the
front, set the pace along the inside and stayed on stubbornly in the stretch. OLYDAR pressed the pace from the outside and was outfinished. SAHM IAHM
was outrun early and had no rally. SENOR NICKY raced inside and had no response when roused. GUY GETAWAY had no rally. KID HENDRIX raced
three wide and tired. WHOLEHEARTED tired after a half mile. FINNEGANS IN AGAIN chased the pace while four wide and tired.


Copyright 2005 Equibase Company LLC. All Rights Reserved.




BELMONT PARK - October 2, 2005 - Race 3
STAKES Trippi S. - For Thoroughbred Three Year Old Open
Six Furlongs On The Dirt Track Record: (Artax - 1:07.66 - October 16, 1999)
Purse: $65,000 Added
Available Money: $67,400
Value of Race: $66,100 1st $40,440, 2nd $13,480, 3rd $6,764, 4th $3,394, 5th $2,022
Weather: Clear Track: Fast
Off at: 2:02 Start: Good for all

Pgm Horse Name (Jockey) Wgt M/E PP Start 1/4 1/2 Str Fin Odds Comments
3 Byanosejoe (Prado, Edgar) 120 L b 3 3 5 41/2 21/2 13 1/4 2.30 strong finish outside
1 Run Thruthe Sun (Migliore, Richard) 118 L cf 1 1 1Head 11/2 11 1/2 21 3/4 2.00 vied, held place
5 Upscaled (Velasquez, Cornelio) 116 L bf 5 4 4Head 5 5 3Neck 7.20 good finish outside
2 Daddy Joe (Arroyo, Jr., Norberto) 118 L b 2 2 31 1/2 3Head 42 4Neck 24.75 stumbled start, tired
4 Yes Yes Yes (Velazquez, John) 118 L 4 5 21 22 1/2 32 1/2 5 1.65* stumbled start, inside

Fractional Times: 22.80 45.14 56.95 Final Time: 1:09.36

Winner: Byanosejoe, Dark Bay or Brown Gelding, by Cherokee Run out of Je Comprend, by Caerleon. Foaled May 19, 2002 in Kentucky.
Breeder: London Thoroughbred Services Ltd.. Winning Owner: Diamond Pride LLC, Dubb, M., Goldfarb, S. J., Scuderi, V. S. and IEAH Stables

Scratched Horse(s): Man of Danger

Total WPS Pool: $291,548
Pgm Horse Win Place Show Wager Type Winning Numbers Payoff Pool
3 Byanosejoe 6.60 2.70 2.80 $2 Exacta 3-1 18.00 247,357
1 Run Thruthe Sun 3.30 3.20 $2 Trifecta 3-1-5 58.50 115,802
5 Upscaled 3.60

Trainers: 3 - Dutrow, Jr., Richard; 1 - Levine, Bruce; 5 - Bailes, W.; 2 - Pedersen, Jennifer; 4 - Pletcher, Todd

Owners: 3 - Diamond Pride LLC, Dubb, M., Goldfarb, S. J., Scuderi, V. S. and IEAH Stables; 1 - Weatherwatch Farm, Valente, Roddy and Passaretti,
Zachary; 5 -Max H. Pearson; 2 - Paraneck Stable; 4 - Team Valor Stables LLC;

Footnotes
BYANOSEJOE raced in hand early while three wide, finished strongly outside and was ridden out to the finish. RUN THRUTHE SUN contested the pace
from the outside and continued on to hold the place. UPSCALED was outrun early, came wide into the stretch and finished well outside. DADDY JOE
stumbled at the start, chased the pace from the outside and tired. YES YES YES stumbled at the start, contested the pace along the inside and tired.


Copyright 2005 Equibase Company LLC. All Rights Reserved.




BELMONT PARK - October 2, 2005 - Race 5
MAIDEN SPECIAL WEIGHT - For Thoroughbred Two Year Old Fillies
Six And One Half Furlongs On The Dirt Track Record: (Bear Fan - 1:14.46 - June 5, 2004)
Purse: $43,000
Available Money: $43,000
Value of Race: $43,000 1st $25,800, 2nd $8,600, 3rd $4,300, 4th $2,150, 5th $1,290, 6th $215, 7th $215, 8th $215, 9th $215
Weather: Clear Track: Fast
Off at: 3:06 Start: Good for all

Pgm Horse Name (Jockey) Wgt M/E PP Start 1/4 1/2 Str Fin Odds Comments
1 Capote's Crown (Bejarano, Rafael) 119 - 1 6 21 1Head 12 1/2 12 1/2 21.10 drifted out stretch
4 Inda (Prado, Edgar) 119 L 4 9 9 5Head 4Head 23/4 7.30 game finish outside
6 Preciousness (Velazquez, John) 119 L 6 3 31/2 42 1/2 2Head 31/2 4.00 chased 3 wide, no bid
2 Diamond Spirit (Santos, Jose) 119 L c 2 7 72 6Head 55 1/2 41/2 1.45* mild rally outside
8 Crystal Current (Bailey, Jerry) 119 L 8 5 6Head 3Head 31/2 54 3/4 5.80 4 wide run, weakened
3 Secret Witness (Castellano, Javier) 119 L 3 2 4Head 73 77 61 1/2 12.40 inside, no response
5 Holy Chimes (Migliore, Richard) 119 L 5 1 1Head 21/2 61 73 3/4 9.30 speed outside, tired
7 Heavenly Juice (Hill, Channing) 114 L b 7 4 5Head 9 9 84 1/4 41.50 inside trip, tired
9 Youknowshesright (Velasquez, Cornelio) 119 L c 9 8 8Head 82 1/2 8Head 9 16.90 outrun

Fractional Times: 22.83 46.25 1:10.55 Final Time: 1:16.99

Winner: Capote's Crown, Bay Filly, by Capote out of Majesty's Crown, by Magesterial. Foaled Apr 03, 2003 in Kentucky.
Breeder: Avalon Farms. Winning Owner: Eldon Farm LLC

Total WPS Pool: $349,552
Pgm Horse Win Place Show Wager Type Winning Numbers Payoff Pool
1 Capote's Crown 44.20 19.80 10.80 $2 Exacta 1-4 323.00 310,606
4 Inda 10.60 8.30 $2 Trifecta 1-4-6 1,520.00 243,303
6 Preciousness 4.70 $2 Pick 3 3-7-1 (3 correct) 230.50 89,521
$2 Pick 4 1-3-7-1 (4 correct) 595.00 133,803

Trainers: 1 - McLaughlin, Kiaran; 4 - McGaughey III, Claude; 6 - Pletcher, Todd; 2 - Jerkens, H.; 8 - Mott, William; 3 - Kimmel, John; 5 - Hennig, Mark; 7 -
Bush, Thomas; 9 - Rice, Linda

Owners: 1 - Eldon Farm LLC; 4 -Emory A. Hamilton; 6 - Padua Stables; 2 -Joseph Allen; 8 - Kinsman Stable; 3 - Broman, Sr., Mary and Chester; 5 -Edward
P. Evans; 7 - Klein, Gary and Schloss, J., Steven; 9 -Frederick Jack Liebau, Jr.;

Footnotes
CAPOTE'S CROWN showed good speed along the inside, soon showed in front, set the pace along the inside, drew clear into the stretch and was kept
busy while drifting out in deep stretch. INDA was outrun early, rallied three wide nearing the stretch and finished gamely outside. PRECIOUSNESS was
hustled along outside, chased the pace while three wide and lacked a rally. DIAMOND SPIRIT raced inside early on, came wide into the stretch and offered
a mild rally outside. CRYSTAL CURRENT was urged along outside, put in a four wide run on the turn and weakened in the final furlong. SECRET WITNESS
was hustled along inside and had no response when roused. HOLY CHIMES showed speed from the outside, argued the pace for a half mile and tired.
HEAVENLY JUICE raced inside and tired. YOUKNOWSHESRIGHT was outrun.


Copyright 2005 Equibase Company LLC. All Rights Reserved.




BELMONT PARK - October 2, 2005 - Race 7
STAKES Astarita S. Grade 3 - For Thoroughbred Two Year Old Fillies
Six And One Half Furlongs On The Dirt Track Record: (Bear Fan - 1:14.46 - June 5, 2004)
Purse: $100,000 Added
Available Money: $108,400
Value of Race: $108,400 1st $65,040, 2nd $21,680, 3rd $10,840, 4th $5,420, 5th $3,252, 6th $2,168
Weather: Clear Track: Fast
Off at: 4:08 Start: Good for all

Pgm Horse Name (Jockey) Wgt M/E PP Start 1/4 1/2 Str Fin Odds Comments
3 Sensation (Coa, Eibar) 117 L 3 1 21/2 11/2 15 15 1/2 2.00* took over when asked
4 Swap Fliparoo (Lakeman, Andrew) 117 - 4 4 6 4Head 33 25 12.10 rallied, second best
5 Unobstructed View (Velazquez, John) 117 L 5 6 31/2 31 1/2 41 31 1/4 2.20 bobbled start, 3 wide
2 Saoirse Cat (Prado, Edgar) 117 L b 2 3 11/2 2Head 2Head 45 11.90 bumped start, inside
1 Fast Deal (Bailey, Jerry) 117 L b 1 5 4Head 5Head 57 57 3.60 bumped start, inside
6 Sleeping (Bravo, Joe) 117 L c 6 2 5Head 6 6 6 5.70 4 wide trip, tired

Fractional Times: 22.08 45.36 1:10.37 Final Time: 1:16.90

Winner: Sensation, Bay Filly, by Dixie Union out of Ryn, by Mr. Prospector. Foaled Jan 24, 2003 in Kentucky.
Breeder: Hermitage Farm LLC. Winning Owner: Cobra Farm and Castletop Stable

Total WPS Pool: $334,548
Pgm Horse Win Place Show Wager Type Winning Numbers Payoff Pool
3 Sensation 6.00 3.60 2.60 $2 Exacta 3-4 53.00 249,154
4 Swap Fliparoo 8.80 3.80 $2 Trifecta 3-4-5 135.00 162,479
5 Unobstructed View 2.80 $2 Daily Double 1-3 12.00 96,895
$2 Pick 3 1-1-3 (3 correct) 424.50 82,449

Trainers: 3 - Hough, Stanley; 4 - Jerkens, H.; 5 - Pletcher, Todd; 2 - Mott, William; 1 - Lukas, D.; 6 - Contessa, Gary

Owners: 3 - Cobra Farm and Castletop Stable; 4 - Hobeau Farm; 5 - Eldon Farm LLC; 2 - Live Oak Plantation; 1 - Overbrook Farm; 6 - Cassidy, David B.,
Lipton, Edward and Bilinski, Darlene;

Footnotes
SENSATION broke well, pressed the pace from the outside, took over when asked, drew away and was kept to the task to the finish. SWAP FLIPAROO
was hustled along between rivals, responded when roused and finished well to be second best. UNOBSTRUCTED VIEW bobbled at the start, was hustled
outside, chased the pace while three wide and tired in the stretch. SAOIRSE CAT was bumped at the start, was hustled up inside, set the pace and tired in
the stretch. FAST DEAL was bumped at the start, raced inside and tired. SLEEPING raced four wide and tired.


Copyright 2005 Equibase Company LLC. All Rights Reserved.




BELMONT PARK - October 2, 2005 - Race 9
STAKES Kelso Breeders' Cup H. Grade 2 - For Thoroughbred Three Year Old and Upward Open
One Mile On The Turf (Temp Rail Set At 18 Feet) Track Record: (Elusive Quality - 1:31.63 - July 4, 1998)
Purse: $350,000 Guaranteed
Includes: $100,000 BC - Breeders' Cup
Available Money: $350,000
Value of Race: $334,200 1st $210,000, 2nd $70,000, 3rd $25,000, 4th $12,500, 5th $10,500, 6th $1,000, 7th $1,400, 8th $1,400, 9th $1,400, 10th $1,000
Weather: Clear Track: Firm
Off at: 5:14 Start: Good for all

Pgm Horse Name (Jockey) Wgt M/E PP Start 1/4 1/2 3/4 Str Fin Odds Comments
8 Funfair (GB) (Prado, Edgar) 115 L 8 6 56 41/2 3Head 32 1Head 13.60 found room on rail
9 Artie Schiller (Migliore, Richard) 123 L 9 1 2Head 21/2 22 21/2 23/4 1.35* gamely between rivals
2 Keep The Faith (AUS) (Castellano, Javier) 115 L 2 4 11 1/2 11/2 11/2 11/2 3Neck 5.30 set pace, stubbornly
7 Not Phone (ARG) (Bejarano, Rafael) 113 L 7 7 62 61/2 5Head 41/2 4Head 18.80 game finish outside
1 Limehouse (Bravo, Joe) 114 L 1 5 4Head 53 6Head 62 1/2 51 12.60 chased, came again
3 Latino Magic (IRE) (Burke, Robert) 115 L 3 10 81/2 72 41/2 5Head 61 3/4 38.75 4 wide move, weakened
6 Ecclesiastic (Santos, Jose) 115 L 6 3 7Head 91/2 92 7Head 71/2 24.75 came wide, mild rally
10 Silver Tree (Bailey, Jerry) 117 L 10 2 31 1/2 32 81 91 81/2 4.50 chased 3 wide, tired
5 Willard Straight (Coa, Eibar) 115 L 5 9 10 10 10 10 91 1/2 18.50 inside, no response
4 Ay Caramba (BRZ) (Albarado, Robby) 116 L 4 8 91/2 8Head 71/2 81/2 10 9.90 wide move, tired


Fractional Times: 22.98 45.11 1:08.58 Final Time: 1:32.95

Winner: Funfair (GB), Bay Gelding, by $Singspiel (IRE) out of Red Carnival, by Mr. Prospector. Foaled Jan 28, 1999 in Great Britain.
Breeder: Cheveley Park Stud Ltd. Winning Owner: Cheveley Park Farm

Total WPS Pool: $555,917
Pgm Horse Win Place Show Wager Type Winning Numbers Payoff Pool
8 Funfair (GB) 29.20 8.10 6.00 $2 Exacta 8-9 73.50 427,761
9 Artie Schiller 2.90 2.40 $2 Trifecta 8-9-2 454.50 317,027
2 Keep The Faith (AUS) 4.20 $2 Superfecta 8-9-2-7 4,623.00 110,960

Trainers: 8 - Motion, H.; 9 - Jerkens, James; 2 - bin Suroor, Saeed; 7 - Dutrow, Jr., Richard; 1 - Pletcher, Todd; 3 - Osborne, R.; 6 - Jerkens, H.; 10 - Mott,
William; 5 - Pletcher, Todd; 4 - Frankel, Robert

Owners: 8 - Cheveley Park Farm; 9 - Timber Bay Farm and Walsh, Mrs. Thomas J.; 2 - Godolphin Racing, Inc.; 7 -Lansdon B. Robbins, lll; 1 - Dogwood
Stable; 3 - Osborne, Mrs. Patrick, Dermot; 6 -Joseph Allen; 10 -Peter Vegso; 5 -Lawrence Goichman; 4 - Bozano, Patricia;

Footnotes
FUNFAIR (GB) raced close up along the inside, rallied turning for home, found room on the rail in the stretch, dug in determinedly and got up in time after a
long drive. ARTIE SCHILLER broke running, chased the pace while between rivals and dug in gamely while between rivals in the stretch. KEEP THE FAITH
(AUS) quickly showed in front, set the pace along the inside and stayed on stubbornly to the wire. NOT PHONE (ARG) was outrun early, raced between
rivals, angled out in upper stretch and finished gamely. LIMEHOUSE raced close up along the inside, chased the pace, dropped back on the turn then came
again gamely in the stretch. LATINO MAGIC (IRE) was outrun early, put in a four wide run on the turn and weakened in the final furlong. ECCLESIASTIC
was outrun early along the inside, came wide into the stretch and offered a mild rally. SILVER TREE was hustled along outside, chased the pace while three
wide and tired after three quarters. WILLARD STRAIGHT was outrun early, raced inside and had no response when roused. AY CARAMBA (BRZ) was
outrun early, put in a wide run on the turn and tired in the stretch.


Copyright 2005 Equibase Company LLC. All Rights Reserved.

[BIG49010]

Looks like your getting closer, what program did you use?

[punchsaw]

Looks like your getting closer, what program did you use?

I tried the program that he posted, and it does not work.
Equibase has those files encrypted.

[Museful]

Following is an excerpt of a PDF to Text conversion I did with a tool I downloaded from the following location: http://www.convertspot.com/download/P2TTrial.exe. I had to send them a sample PDF to look at (and the Equibase URL), as their converter did not work at first. They modified their software and posted the above updated trial version on their website. Before buying, be sure you're getting Build #4401.

The text below loses some formatting here, but the actual converted text maintains much of the spacing and column alignment of the PDF document, although the company has a PDF to XML developer version, which would make it easier to parse. Encryption is not the issue.

Ted Craven

---------------------------------
BELMONT PARK - October 5, 2005 - Race 1
MAIDEN CLAIMING - For Thoroughbred Two Year Old Fillies
One Mile On The Turf (Temp Rail Set At 18 Feet) Track Record: (Elusive Quality - 1:31.63 - July 4, 1998)
Purse: $34,000
Available Money: $34,000
Value of Race: $34,000 1st $20,400, 2nd $6,800, 3rd $3,400, 4th $1,700, 5th $1,020, 6th $170, 7th $170, 8th $170, 9th $170
Weather: Clear Track:Firm
Off at: 1:01 Start: Good for all
Pgm Horse Name (Jockey) Wgt M/E PP Start 1/4 1/2 3/4 Str Fin Odds Comments
9 Categorize (Prado, Edgar) 120 - 8 8 87 72 1/2 72 1/2 35 1/2 11 1/4 2.80 along late inside
5 Wall Street Legend (Morales, Pablo) 113 L 4 3 12 1/2 15 16 16 24 1/4 6.20 clear, drifted, caught
10 A'int Shy (Luzzi, Michael) 120 L f 9 1 21/2 21/2 23 2Head 36 2.75* chased outside, no bid
3 Merrimack County (Castellano, Javier) 120 L f 1 2 51/2 5Head 51/2 45 1/2 41 3/4 6.30 inside, no response
2B Sister Judge (Sutherland, Chantal) 120 L 7 7 7Head 86 85 1/2 61/2 54 7.20 inside trip, no rally
7 Battle Fever (Smith, Mike) 120 L 5 9 9 9 9 9 6Head 9.80 off slowly, greenly
8 Sydney's Emerald (Velasquez, Cornelio) 120 L 6 6 66 64 1/2 6Head 51/2 74 3/4 7.60 4 wide turn, tired
4 Magic Momentum (Lakeman, Andrew) 120 - 3 5 31/2 32 41/2 81 82 1/4 32.00 chased inside, tired
2 Rivervale (Espinoza, Jose) 120 L b 2 4 45 43 3Head 71/2 9 7.20 inside trip, tired
Fractional Times:22.74 45.81 1:10.93 Final Time:1:37.67
Winner: Categorize, Chestnut Filly, by Menifee out of Catechism, by St. Jovite. Foaled Apr 16, 2003 in Kentucky.
Breeder: Oak Cliff Breeders, Inc.. Winning Owner: Stone, James H. and Hancock, III, Arthur B.
1 Claimed Horse(s): Categorize New Trainer: Richard E. Dutrow, Jr. New Owner: Sanford J. Goldfarb
Claiming Prices: 9 - Categorize: $75,000; 5 - Wall Street Legend: $75,000; 10 - A'int Shy: $75,000; 3 - Merrimack County: $75,000; 2B -
Sister Judge: $75,000; 7 - Battle Fever: $75,000; 8 - Sydney's Emerald: $75,000; 4 - Magic Momentum: $75,000; 2 -
Rivervale: $75,000;
Scratched Horse(s): Act as If, Cosmo Queen, Fiddlers Trick, Piazza Grande, Promiseheranything, Scaife Road, Storm Seeking
Total WPS Pool: $182,897
Pgm Horse Win Place Show Wager Type Winning Numbers Payoff Pool
9 Categorize 7.60 4.00 2.80 $2 Exacta 9-5 50.50 184,257
5 Wall Street Legend 6.90 3.50 $2 Trifecta 9-5-10 137.00 113,547
10 A'int Shy 2.90
Trainers: 9 - Clement, Christophe; 5 - Violette, Jr., Richard; 10 - Lewis, Lisa; 3 - Weaver, George; 2B - Donk, David; 7 - Hennig, Mark; 8 - McLaughlin,
Kiaran; 4 - Jerkens, H.; 2 - Donk, David
Owners: 9 - Stone, James H. and Hancock, III, Arthur B.; 5 - Klaravich Stables, Inc.; 10 - Dizney, Donald R. and Imperio, Michael; 3 - Richlyn Farms;
2b-Charles A. Murray; 7 -Edward P. Evans; 8 - West Point Stable; 4 - Hardwicke Stable; 2 -William Bloom;
Footnotes
CATEGORIZE was outrun early, advanced on the turn, came five wide into the stretch, angled in in upper stretch, finished strongly and was along late along
the inside, driving. WALL STREET LEGEND quickly opened a clear lead, set the pace along the inside, drew away into the stretch, took a sizeable
advantage into deep stretch, drifted out a bit in the final furlong and was caught nearing the line. A'INT SHY chased the pace from the outside and lacked a
rally. MERRIMACK COUNTY was outrun early, raced inside and had no response when roused. SISTER JUDGE raced inside and had no rally. BATTLE
FEVER broke slowly, raced greenly and tired. SYDNEY'S EMERALD was outrun early, raced four wide on the turn and tired in the stretch. MAGIC
MOMENTUM chased the pace along the inside and tired. RIVERVALE raced inside and tired.

Copyright 2005 Equibase Company LLC. All Rights Reserved.

[DJofSD]

This is getting closer. Perhaps the XML results will be better.

The problem I perceive is in the paceline information.

In an HTML/XML result file, the running position is followed by a tag <sup> for superscript which is for the beaten lengths. In the sample you provided from the updated utility, it appears the running position and beaten lengths run together. Unless there's either an intervening white space or brackets/braces/parens used to designate the beaten lengths, writing a program to capture and separate the data items will be difficult.

If you're communicating with the developers, let them know that superscripted data needs to be some how identified uniquely. Perhaps a user selected option to allow use of either white space or a user specified character pair such as a square open and close bracket, would make their product the right answer.

Thanks for the information and link.

DJofSD

[Museful]

HTML or XML is lots more fun to parse than plaintext! But the plaintext output will lose the distinction between supercripting and regular, due to no markup tags.

In the original, for example, a finish call group looked like this (i.e. preceded by several spaces):

24 1/4

This can unambiguously be parsed as 2nd position, 4.25 lengths ahead of the next, since at each call point, the first character represents the position, while the rest represent the lengths ahead. You'd need to run a tab for each column to unambiguously distinguish between running position 1 and position 10, do some validation, etc - no problems.

Anyway, it can be done, just no fun (and not for $150!) I'm still not clear why BRIS/TSN HTML is not just as good as Equibase's was, or is this discussion in anticipation of them also going PDF?

Ted Craven

[DJofSD]

I have a library I use in my programs that makes parsing HTML/XML very easy.

I think the lack of a clear separation between the position and beaten lengths can be worked around programmactically. But why not make it easier? Sure, I can anticipate such "running together" of the two data items but given a choice, I'd rather have them distinct and separate rather than having to write a program to detect and separate them myself -- hey, I'm lazy!

Yes, I would anticipate that once Equibase has done it, the others will eventually do it too.

DJofSD

[sjk]

What do you do with 111?

[Museful]

Good point!

If we are trying to distinguish between, say, a finish position of 1st, 11 lengths ahead, and 11th, 1 length ahead in an 11+horse field, I'd try to look to context at the preceding call, or the subsequent call if it was an internal point.

Perhaps it's possible to come to an ambiguous situation, but I wonder if comparing the ambiguous alternates once the rest was in place would shake it out (i.e. some series of pionts of call and resulting lengths ahead/beaten lengths would make sense and some would not...)

Not that I'm offering to try - I'm saving my pennies for the PDF to XML version, and using BRIS HTML in the meantime :~)

Ted

[DJofSD]

Yes, you could look at other data items from the other points of call for that same horse. Or you could fill in the matrix of all the horses in the race with their unambigious point of call data then derive the missing running positions to then help figure out the beaten lengths.

Lots of work. $100 might look cheap after writing that program.

And, what about the running lines for horses that do not finish?

DJofSD

[highnote]

It's those gadamn off-shore books' fault!

http://www.equibase.com/news/releases/100405release.cfm

This quote is from the above Equibase link:

“In a test earlier this year we changed one data element in one of our data distribution channels and found that eighteen off-shore bookmakers had published the data on their web sites,” continued O’Hara. “Obviously those entities are not licensed to use Equibase® data and that’s when we knew we had to take additional steps to increase security.”

I'd like to see the list of the 18 off-shore bookmakers who were publishing the data. I've never seen any off-shore bookmakers publish Equibase data. Obviously, I have not visited every online bookmaker, but still, I've visited some off-shore sites like Betfair, Pinnacle, TCBets, Ehorse. What other popular ones are there that might be publishing the data?

[DJofSD]

That press release is just a pile of warm steaming you-know-what.

DJofSD

[Steveh]

This quote is from the above Equibase link:

I'd like to see the list of the 18 off-shore bookmakers who were publishing the data. I've never seen any off-shore bookmakers publish Equibase data. Obviously, I have not visited every online bookmaker, but still, I've visited some off-shore sites like Betfair, Pinnacle, TCBets, Ehorse. What other popular ones are there that might be publishing the data?

I think you have asked a very reasonable question and I'm sure there are many of us who would like to see even 6 of the books who published the data. Equibase should respect thier customers enough to provide a response even if it's just "awww I was decieving you guys.".

If the Equibase quote is true it'd be interesting to understand the logic of how the change will stop them from publishing the data. The books make enough to spend some money to but data to promote thier sites, no? Me thinks somebody at EQ speaks with forked tounge! I guess insulting our intelligence is ok.

[highnote]

I think you have asked a very reasonable question and I'm sure there are many of us who would like to see even 6 of the books who published the data. Equibase should respect thier customers enough to provide a response even if it's just "awww I was decieving you guys.".

If the Equibase quote is true it'd be interesting to understand the logic of how the change will stop them from publishing the data. The books make enough to spend some money to but data to promote thier sites, no? Me thinks somebody at EQ speaks with forked tounge! I guess insulting our intelligence is ok.


Steve,
Thanks. I'll ask it again, but even more simply...

Can anyone name even one site that has illegally published Equibase or U.S. racing data?

Surely, someone on PA has seen at least one off-shore site do this. Right?

[Steve 'StatMan']

Steve,
Thanks. I'll ask it again, but even more simply...

Can anyone name even one site that has illegally published Equibase or U.S. racing data?

Surely, someone on PA has seen at least one off-shore site do this. Right?

Actually, how would we know? I'm guessing if they put the data out there without the standard "Equibase" tag line " I guess.

Of course, what is 'facts' vs. 'copyrightable' data is a big issue (not wanting to start that discussion up again).

[highnote]

Actually, how would we know? I'm guessing if they put the data out there without the standard "Equibase" tag line " I guess.

Of course, what is 'facts' vs. 'copyrightable' data is a big issue (not wanting to start that discussion up again).


Good points.

Does anyone know if anyone has ever been sued by Equibase for copyright infringement?

[Museful]

Just a follow up note on PDF to Text converters: the few that have successfully demonstrated conversions to a text file of the current Equibase PDFs, are able to do so because they work around an odd individual race assembly format into a composite PDF document. The problem is NOT because the Equibase PDFs are encrypted - they are NOT encrypted (currently).

HOWEVER, I created a PDF file using my PDF distiller tool (Jaws, but could be Adobe Distiller, or any), applying 40 bit PDF 1.3 encryption to it. The PDF to Text converter was then NOT able to parse it to text.

CONCLUSION: Equibase's PDFs, since they can be converted to text, are not currently encrypted. However, they could easily be, in the future! Hence, I think it's a losing proposition to attempt to write a parser to deal with any Equibase Chart PDF documents.

Perhaps better to use another HTML source while they last, or else (gasp!) pay for comma delimited files somewhere.

Ted Craven

[RonTiller]

Does anyone know if anyone has ever been sued by Equibase for copyright infringement?

I don't know for certain but I don't believe there have been any actual lawsuits. I do know that Equibase has gotten cease and desist orders for many websites. Since they apparently all do cease and desist, I'm guessing that it never gets as far as a lawsuit. There is one case where the website ended up getting an Equibase contract. It is not for me to name names in this matter but I can confirm that Equibase aggresively pursues these matters and that formatting (still) free data as PDF rather than HTML is part of this overall enforcement policy.

Actually, how would we know? I'm guessing if they put the data out there without the standard "Equibase" tag line...
Gee, all anybody had to do was download a program from THIS website to parse the files, then reformat the data as desired. And it doesn't require expert programming skills to parse the HTML from scratch - its all elementary, if not sometimes laborious. That is why Equibase had to seed the files to identify who was using them, rather than look for companies redisplaying the exact HTML on their websites. This is standard operating procedure.

Ron Tiller
HDW

[highnote]

Gee, all anybody had to do was download a program from THIS website to parse the files, then reformat the data as desired.

Are you sure you could download the program from THIS website? There may have been a link to a site for downloading. (I don't remember seeing one, though.) But I doubt that a parser program resided on THIS server.

I will also add one comment... My level of play has decreased 100% since I no longer have access to low cost comma delimited result charts and my internet wagering accounts were closed per the order of the Attorney General of the State of Connecticut.

[GameTheory]

I will also add one comment... My level of play has decreased 100% since I no longer have access to low cost comma delimited result charts and my internet wagering accounts were closed per the order of the Attorney General of the State of Connecticut.Didn't you know that you are supposed to go to your local OTB now? You better get down there...

[highnote]

Didn't you know that you are supposed to go to your local OTB now? You better get down there...


No. I'm afraid not. I refuse to place my bets with Connecticut OTB -- a state sanctioned monopoly.

This is the same reason I refuse to pay for information provided through Equibase. Equibase is a monopoly.

If each track would offer it's own data in the form of comma delimited lifetime past performance and chart data/information I would bet with that track.

If any track provided low cost data about the horses running there more people would bet that track.

I believe in free markets. Basically, I think that Equibase is conspiring with the racetracks to fix prices. If you want to buy data from Equibase for Belmont or Santa Anita or Yakima Downs the cost is the same. There is no competition. All tracks have agreed to sell their data for the same price through Equibase. Isn't that price fixing?

Or have I got this wrong?

[Tom]

....where THEY area charging admission now! Yikes! I'll use a pay toilet, but even I won't pay to use an OTB. :kiss:

[Figman]

This one has a $3 admission. State of the Art. Real nice! There are only eight Teletheaters in New York State. The newest is Nassau's Race Palace.
http://tinyurl.com/do3f7

[highnote]

This one has a $3 admission. State of the Art. Real nice! There are only eight Teletheaters in New York State. The newest is Nassau's Race Palace.
http://tinyurl.com/do3f7


Pay for admission to a teletheatre? I don't care how nice it is. I've never paid to enter a race book in Vegas and some of those are way nice.

If I'm gonna pay admission I should at least get a rebate.

[rokitman]

At the Albany Teletheater you can pay an admission to go in the "left side" of the place and get track prices or not pay an admission and enter the "right side" and get sodomized for the usual additional 6% OTB "surcharge" on your winners. And you won't get a gaddamn thing for free on either side except for high blood pressure. That's their specialty.

[highnote]

At the Albany Teletheater you can pay an admission to go in the "left side" of the place and get track prices or not pay an admission and enter the "right side" and get sodomized for the usual additional 6% OTB "surcharge" on your winners. And you won't get a gaddamn thing for free on either side except for high blood pressure. That's their specialty.


Yeah, but if you go to the side where you don't pay admission and you lose then you don't have to pay the 6% surcharge. Plus with money you saved on admission, you can afford one winner. The 6% surcharge should equal the admission you saved. It's a wash -- right? :D

[Zaf]

This one has a $3 admission. State of the Art. Real nice! There are only eight Teletheaters in New York State. The newest is Nassau's Race Palace.
http://tinyurl.com/do3f7

Very nice place. I have a friend who lives in Plainview and have been to the Race Palace on many occasions.

ZAFONIC

[Sabe]

Equibase PDF Results Charts!
Anybody making any headway?

[richrosa]

The Race Palace is the best the teletheatre I've ever seen, and better than most casinos. I'm just thrilled that I live one mile away, and no one asks me to put out my cigar downstairs while I'm playing night races.

[PaceAdvantage]

I probably missed this somewhere, but is there a reason you guys don't utilize the free BRIS charts? They are in HTML format....

[Zaf]

I probably missed this somewhere, but is there a reason you guys don't utilize the free BRIS charts? They are in HTML format....

Yes they are today ...... tomorrow ???

ZAFONIC

[highnote]

I probably missed this somewhere, but is there a reason you guys don't utilize the free BRIS charts? They are in HTML format....

I don't think they are as complete as Equibase charts. If you compare them side by side, Equibase offers a wee bit more info.

[Tom]

No parsers for BRIS! :(

I gotta learn how to program.....something or other.:confused:

[rokitman]

I don't think they are as complete as Equibase charts. If you compare them side by side, Equibase offers a wee bit more info.

Yeah but beggars can't be choosers!

I'll make a donation to anybody that gets a BRIS parser done. If there are any other benefactors out there please, for the love of godd, make yourselves known!!

[richrosa]

I have made available a BRIS DRF file parser written in PHP. You can get it for free at https://sourceforge.net/projects/handicappingos. You probably could apply lots of the code in my DRF parser to use against their comma-delimited chart files.

That's not the question being discussed here. I can tell you from experience that you CAN parse the BRIS HTML chart files. In my opinion (and experience) you need a stronger regular expression tool than those contained in VB. I would recommend PERL or PHP, both of which have that regex support that you need to do this.

If anyone ever starts this and needs some pointers, I'd be glad to help.

[cj]

No parsers for BRIS! :(

I gotta learn how to program.....something or other.:confused:

I wrote one, but its only for my needs and probably wouldn't do much for anyone else. Its not very tough, but tedious.

[linrom1]

I wrote one, but its only for my needs and probably wouldn't do much for anyone else. Its not very tough, but tedious.

Looks to me that if someone writes one, there is a paying market for it. So why not earn a few dollars for a good cause.

[cj]

Looks to me that if someone writes one, there is a paying market for it. So why not earn a few dollars for a good cause.

Mostly because BRIS, DRF and TSN could decide tomorrow to go to PDF, and I'd be screwed as would any customers.

[highnote]

Mostly because BRIS, DRF and TSN could decide tomorrow to go to PDF, and I'd be screwed as would any customers.

Unfortunately, all good things must come to an end. :(

[linrom1]

Mostly because BRIS, DRF and TSN could decide tomorrow to go to PDF, and I'd be screwed as would any customers.

If doesn't count. One must assume that world will continue as is. :confused:

[Tom]

http://www.guysoftware.com/parserat.htm

For the adventerous......no idea at all what is like, but maybe it will somebody.

[sjk]

The equibase guy I talked to on the phone referred to their action as part of an "industry solution" to his problems (he was not imrpessed by my point of view that the "solution" did nothing to solve the problem; it only created headaches for some good industry customers). That gave me the impression that the other html pages might be gone sometime soon.

Changing data sources involves work to make things as compatible as humanly possible, lack of compatiblily to the extent that it is not possible to do so and the risk that an error might not be caught which could potentially be very expensive if you use the data to bet real money.

I didn't think it was worth the work and extra risk to switch to a data source that might not be around for long.

[headhawg]

Does anyone know how long it will be before Bris changes from html to pdf format? I'm working on a parser for the hell of it, mostly to see if I can do it. I should be learning how to handicap better but this challenge is a nice diversion for a programming dabbler like myself. It's going to take a while as I work 13 hour days so I thought that I would ask the question about the changeover. If it's in a week or two, I think that I'll just quit the project now and save myself the aggravation.

[rokitman]

Maybe they're not, Head. Did you ask them?

[NoDayJob]

If the information provided by Equibase is sent in comma delimited format, as I suspect it is, there would be no advantage for the other data suppliers to change to PDF, unless they are forced by EB. Maybe when they renew their contracts?????

NDJ [AKA Troll #1]