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BetHorses!
09-23-2005, 12:08 PM
Got to tell you I am thinking twice about this now. I am all for rebuilding in general, when they knocked the twin towers down I wanted and still want either rebuilt towers one floor higher or three towers instead of two but this is different. They are below sea level and we are currently in a 10-20 year cycle of active and severe storms. We have just seen two CAT 5 storms both with pressure recorded among the top 5 lowest off all time and less than a month apart.

Lets do some math, spend 200+ Billion and wait for another storm or just heavy rain to devastate everything and spend more money to fix again

OR

Out of the 1.1 million people affected I believe its 400,000 households, maybe we should give the 400,000 households the money instead. $250,000 towards a new home and another $250,000 to help get them back on their feet. 400,000 x 500,000 = 200 Billion

Not sure if this is the answer but how much money should we spend building an rebuilding below sea level?

Buddha
09-23-2005, 12:35 PM
I don't think that the rebuilding is the issue. If that were the case, why rebuild any town that is hit by a hurricane? The real issue is whether or not to rebuild it the way that it is/was. Rebuilding below sea level is just asking for more flooding at a later time. Why not "fill in the hole" that New Orleans is, and build it above sea level like other towns. Sure, there is still a chance at hurricane damage, but the flooding won't be so severe.

ljb
09-23-2005, 01:23 PM
Hell no. I don't think the federal government should rebuild for those dudes in the earthquakes in Ca. either. Or for that matter, the dudes that live on stilt houses along the ocean should not get any federal funds for rebuilding either. There may be others but I can't remember any right now.
I don't have a problem with helping these folks out in their time of need but like the comedian said about the folks starving in the desserts of Africa, "Don't send them food, send them a suitcase."

boxcar
09-23-2005, 01:25 PM
I'm hoping (perhaps in vain) that these wussies we have for politicians will at least, this time around, sit down and calmly and intelligently assess the entire situation from top to bottom before making any commitments to rebuild.

Not too long ago I stumbled onto a site that, believe it or not, provided a "justification", based on cost-to-benefit ratio, for the construction of its current levee system that would only provide protection against Cat 3 storms. (I could be wrong but I think the study at that time was conducted by scientists at LSU.) Guess what? Current events have proven that their probability stats weren't worth the paper on which they're printed!

There's lots of irony in the fact that at that time no one wanted to spend 20+ BIL for the additional protection of "CAT 5-proof" levees; but after a major disaster strikes and all but obliterates NO, all these mealymouthed, cowardly, vote-buying politicians (including Bush!) don't blink an eyelash about spending at least 10 times the above amount! No one has the courage to tell it like it is -- or to even tell all Americans that before moving so fast, we need to take a really hard look at the feasibility for rebuilding.

Maybe...just maybe...the flooding now being caused by Rita will give some politicians a reason to call a time-out. But I personally wouldn't bet on it.

Boxcar

JustRalph
09-23-2005, 01:30 PM
No...........

boxcar
09-24-2005, 01:31 AM
No...........

Hey, JR, I know brevity is the soul of wit, but I'm wonderin' if your "No" was in answer to whether NO sholuld be rebuilt, or if Congress and the President would really pause and call a time-out to truly and honestly assess the plausibility of rebuilding?

Boxcar

Tom
09-24-2005, 12:10 PM
Just say NO! to NO.

JustRalph
09-24-2005, 01:04 PM
No to rebuilding it at all. At least as a city in the same vein as before. I don't care if it gets rebuilt, as long as Federal Money is not used. There is going to be another hurricane season next year..........and If private individuals want to take the risk..........fine...........but no Fed money. The state can do it.........but it must be paid for by the State residents.

so.cal.fan
09-24-2005, 01:27 PM
I agree with Ralph, here.
Our constitution does not guarantee our government being responsible to perform such tasks.
New Orleans should be rebuilt only within the private sector.......if only for the reason of LESS GRAFT.
The people of La. will want to rebuilt it, and doing so will provide many jobs and incentives for everyone else in the country to do likewise.
Old Huey Long's slogan "every man a king" went to far.......many of the NOLA people believed it to mean that their government has the responsibility for their lives.
Not a good thing.

doophus
09-26-2005, 08:59 AM
Check out the link below and note the ones involved in the decision making. And this bill was filed before Rita!

Incidentally, David Vitter isn't a RINO, but for him to join forces with this group only guarantees him one conservative vote less upon his quest for reelection.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/25/AR2005092501413_pf.html

P.S. All donations will be accepted.

tonto1944
09-26-2005, 09:36 AM
Why throw good money to a bad place. If they want to rebuild let the Private sector rebuild. I wouldn't trust the people who run the city. Half of them before the Hurricains were under indictment. New Orleans is the most corrupt city in the USA. Why do you think they call it the big easy. More than half the money sent to the State by the Goverment either went to the Casino's being built or into someones pocket. They blame everyone else for the way the poor were living down there ,meanwhile they were stuffing money in their pockets.The Mayor woun't be moving back there,he bought a brand new house in North Texas. Wonder where he got that money from.

Tom
09-26-2005, 07:48 PM
It flooded twice already this month. Duh!

I know why the people of NO are so stupid......thier school grades are below "C" level! :lol:

doophus
09-26-2005, 11:45 PM
Tonto1944 said:

"The Mayor woun't be moving back there,he bought a brand new house in North Texas."

Local reports state that he didn't buy a house in Dallas, but he admits to "renting" a house in the Dallas area so his family could get settled.

Tom stated:

"I know why the people of NO are so stupid......thier school grades are below "C" level!" :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol:
It's quite apparent that manufacturing hasn't dulled your senses. Another classic! :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

Kreed
09-27-2005, 07:36 AM
My take on re-building NO is NO. At least, not until a scientists' plan is made
public & open to total debate. And another large NO to re-building the Twin
Towers. It's so long past now, and there are many more interesting urban
issues before us.

BetHorses!
10-06-2005, 10:37 PM
CNN.com asked readers for their suggestions on how the city should rebuild and how it could take advantage of reconstruction to improve. Here is a sampling of those responses, some of which have been edited:

Use the area as a landfill until it is above sea level. Then rebuild. It may take a few years, but if you truck in trash from all over it could take less time than you think. Just wait for the ground to settle and be stable for foundations.
Eric, Portland, Oregon

If it is to be re-built, we need to make sure that the houses in the floodplain are essentially "houseboats" (economical housing for those that need it?), and can freely float (tethered to the lot) if the land is flooded. Utilities would be provided by an extendible, waterproof "umbilical cord," so that people could actually remain in the houses, provided the water is safe to drink. Every house would have a lifeboat of some sort as standard equipment in case evacuation was necessary after a flood. The land is going to continue to sink, and if rebuilding is the course of action to be undertaken, then we definitely need to re-build smarter, instead of creating another catastrophe.
Rob Bygrave, Lexington, Kentucky

As a New Orleans native, I am deeply concerned regarding the rebuilding effort. Besides honoring our architectural legacy, an effort should be made to create parks, gardens, state-of-the-art schools, libraries and community and cultural centers that focus on food, music, art and history. We have a wonderful city that has been hijacked by corrupt politicians. I don't want New Orleans to turn into Las Vegas, Biloxi, Houston, Atlanta or Disneyland.
Michael Dominici, New Orleans, Louisiana

Yes, rebuild, but do it wisely. Ask the Dutch government for help in building in a flood zone. The Dutch build houses that rise with water levels. Also, plant trees and reestablish the natural barriers that would help minimize hurricane damage in the future.
Lili Grudzien, New York

Why not make some of the lower level districts into parks that would serve as flood basins if necessary? The San Fernando Valley in Southern California has (or had) just such a park/flood basin. Also, this would be a great time [to]plan a rail transit system to bring workers in from suburbs located on higher ground.
Rose, Livermore, California

Flatten the slums, build staff quarters, give the French Quarter and the surrounding areas to Disney or Harrah's and turn it into a play park for grownups.
Phil, Houston, Texas

Good healthy communities have "mixed" housing, with single family middle income housing alongside lower income housing. Avoid ghettos. Create retail space in each neighborhood to attract the national chains. Create a city-wide public transit system that enables low income workers to travel for better employment or education. Mandate two years of public service work for every Louisiana 18-year-old. This teaches responsibility, access to learning job skills and opportunities for mentored relationships, a good way to help prevent the next generation falling into the poverty trap. Could also help melt the lines that reinforce racial segregation.
Karen Kelly, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

The states affected by hurricanes should adopt Dade County, Florida, building standards. You see pictures of the wood frame houses that fly away with high winds. Expensive? No way if you factor in the reduced insurance cost. You simply won't find a wood frame house in the hurricane-affected areas anywhere except the United States! Maybe we need to visit Cuba and the Dominican Republic to see how well built, hurricane resistant and inexpensive housing can be made.
Luis Paez, El Paso, Texas

New Orleans should be built up to new levee standards, to withstand a Category 5 hurricane. Turn [the city] into a giant amusement park, and ... in case the levee still doesn't hold, roller coaster everyone out of town!
Martha, Hernando, Texas

In any area that is six feet or more below sea level, change all streets into waterways. In other areas, use silt from the river to raise land above sea level.
Tarique M. Agha, Maspeth, New York

New Orleans [should] be built in another location away from the sea level vicinity. I hope that the planning people use wisdom this time and rebuild in another section of Louisiana.
LeVerta Davis, Stockbridge, Georgia

The U.S. government should not only repair the damaged levee system, but should instead design and construct a monumental wall with a concrete base and arched steel girders along the top that would flank a lighted walkway that will be known as "The Promenade of New Orleans." This creation of public space of unprecedented proportions would function not only as a hurricane protective seawall, but enable city residents and tourists to stroll down or bicycle around this unique city and can be accessed by numerous entry/exit ramps available along the city side of the promenade. This promenade would connect the various neighborhoods of New Orleans and undoubtedly will become a major tourist attraction offering remarkable views of this historic American city. Monumental plaques along the main entrances of the promenade (and the entry/exit ways) should be dedicated to the victims of Hurricane Katrina and pay homage to the people of the state of Louisiana and the city of New Orleans.
Winston Laverne, Chicago, Illinois

Implement a work program. Bring back the impoverished evacuees, hire them to do the cleanup and construct housing, schools and parks. Extend a housing opportunity to the workers who rebuild the city, either a rent reduction or tax break. This type of activity creates a sense of ownership and pride that the previous welfare recipients have never experienced before, hopefully reducing crime and poverty. People protect what they have worked hard to build. Pay them wages not food stamps.
Linda Churchill, Fayetteville, Arkansas

New building codes should require all new single family homes be elevated like many coastal homes are built to minimize flooding hazards. All new homes especially ones built for the poor should have the latest in solar water heaters and energy efficient construction. Architectural design should consider solar orientation wind resistance.
Jeff Striebich, Eden, New York

It is true that any rebuilding should follow strict storm-resistant guidelines. But in order to help rebuild New Orleans's economy along with its buildings, those guidelines should also require that the rebuilding be done to the extent possible by local contractors and craftsmen who would be given preference and encouragement to return, and with local labor.
Sal Hall, New Orleans, Louisiana

New Orleans has always had an European feel to it. Why not enhance this by making it like Venice, Italy? Leave the areas that didn't flood as they are and make the rest like Venice with canals for roads and the houses and properties on concrete "islands".
Charmaine McCleave, Hattiesburg, Mississippi

Why not build a deep water sea port next to New Orleans and use the dredged material from the new sea port to build up the low areas of the city? A deep water sea port would mean a bright economic future for a depressed area.
Dave Ryan, Portland, Oregon

Improve roads by raising and widening for evacuation, turn Ninth Ward into retaining "pond" or parks that would be OK if it flooded. Prevent rebuilds in lowest areas. Use refuse to raise areas before rebuilding, or reinforce levees with rock, block, brick. Return to the "crescent" shaped city. Leave the swamps to the animals.
Jeff Roach, Capac, Michigan

Buildings being rebuilt would need to be erected in such a way that the corners would be facing the predominant winds from the Gulf, thus slicing into the wind, as would the bow of a ship slice into the water. Taking this one step further, buildings would be best built in an aerodynamic form much like the upper portion of a plane or automobile. In this way the high winds would have the least amount of impact.
Marc Hiemstra, Bobcaygeon, Ontario

Flooded neighborhoods should be bulldozed and new construction should be high-rise residential with multi-level parking garages below. Each building should be supplied with generators on upper levels. With this type of residential construction, future levee breaks could be withstood, as it is too costly to rebuild levees for Cat[egory] 4 or 5 storms.
Rosemary King, Houston, Texas

Change the building codes to require all hospitals to have a self-contained power supply such as, fuel cells, solar power or even wind generators on the roof. The power supply should be required to supply at least 25 percent of regular usage to all levels. All levels below sea level should be reinforced and allow easy access to above sea level floors. Large commercial buildings such as the Superdome should have a self-generating power supply [and]also, a fresh water tower to supply the Dome for at least one week for maximum capacity. Homeland Security should look into requiring all major shelters to have a regenerating power supply and fresh water for future use. Water may be recycled instead of stored in a large container also.
Robert D. Murphy, Mc Allen, Texas

I would suggest that each parish use the highest point available and build a new parish building that has a very deep poured concrete foundation that rises to the maximum flood water height. The perimeter would be ramped to create a virtual island in the midst of the flood. The basement would be waterproofed to resist encroachment of flood waters and would have a central core of a size large enough to house residents of the parish who were infirm or had no means of travel. The upper levels would be constructed to resist a Category 5 disaster and would house the offices of the council, mayor, police, fire and other important disaster centers. Emergency food and water would be stored similar to the bomb shelters many of us built during the Cold War.
Horace Burke, La Celia, Honduras

Let the "bowl" fill in naturally with water and build homes around this new lake. Name the lake appropriately and remake New Orleans from the bottom up.
Sherry Norman, Milan, Michigan

Create "cells" -- interior levees that isolate potential areas of flooding so that the flooding could be contained within each cell (like on a battleship). Connect the cell walls forming a network of parks, bicycle paths and streetcar lines throughout the city.
Neal Nathan son, Bethesda, Maryland

Renewable energy resources such as solar energy should be used for distributed power supply systems so that even if the transmission lines get knocked off the city is not starved of power. Use of small high-speed gas turbines which can work from the gas mains can be thought of for electricity supply. The location of the distribution boards for electric supply has to be done at a higher elevation than in the normal ground level mode to avoid failure during floods.
SNOBAL, Nevi Mumbai, India

DJofSD
10-07-2005, 12:36 AM
Well, I think before they rebuild, they'll need to do an EIR.

DJofSD

so.cal.fan
10-07-2005, 10:20 AM
Interesting BetHorses....I hadn't read that.
Some really great ideas here.
I think the people of India and Holland contribute some interesting solutions.
After all...these folks know about these things, obviously better than the City of New Orleans did.

DJofSD
11-18-2005, 12:18 AM
Two programs on PBS next week, Nova and Frontline, about the hurricane.

Of coarse, I'm expecting a certain slant to the reporting. But it will be interesting nonetheless.