Handicapping the Wall Street Way by Ripple

[facorsig]

This is a new offering to be released at the end of this month. Does any one know the author? Appears he is a retired stock broker. I have enjoyed other books which draw parallels between horse racing and the stock market such as Fabricand's. I will post a review once I receive and read.

[andicap]

here is one link

http://www.eclipsepress.com/current_titles/B11-1104.html

[andicap]

Well, there's even a Yahoo group -- although maybe Mr. Ripple started it.

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/ripplehandicappers/

[BillW]

Well, there's even a Yahoo group -- although maybe Mr. Ripple started it.

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/ripplehandicappers/

A group with one member (and one post). :)

[oddswizard]

The stock market and the races are very similar. In the stock market if you recommend a stock you are called a stock broker. In the horse business you are called a tipster. If you invest in the market you are a prudent investor. If you invest in the races you are called a de-generate gambler. When you invest in stocks you do not know when or if you are going to make money. When you invest in the races you know exactly how much you are going to make in advance if you win and you know you will be paid in about 2 minutes. And they call us gamblers?

On a serious note, I have a math teacher who is banned from the casinos for card counting. Then he went into handicapping and did very well. 5 years ago he switched to the stock market
with a formula based on money management he learned from racing. Far more profits, more daily action, leverage advantages and an outstanding profit record. His formula picks stocks based on what they are going to do tomorrow with 91% accuracy. Amazing track record.

[timtam]

Maybe he should write a book

How many people are really using the Ripple way of handicapping?

Got to keep both eyes on this :eek:

[ezpace]

The stock market and the races are very similar. In the stock market if you recommend a stock you are called a stock broker. In the horse business you are called a tipster. If you invest in the market you are a prudent investor. If you invest in the races you are called a de-generate gambler. When you invest in stocks you do not know when or if you are going to make money. When you invest in the races you know exactly how much you are going to make in advance if you win and you know you will be paid in about 2 minutes. And they call us gamblers?

On a serious note, I have a math teacher who is banned from the casinos for card counting. Then he went into handicapping and did very well. 5 years ago he switched to the stock market
with a formula based on money management he learned from racing. Far more profits, more daily action, leverage advantages and an outstanding profit record. His formula picks stocks based on what they are going to do tomorrow with 91% accuracy. Amazing track record.

8888888888888888888888888888888
I Do both.. mostly Futures Commodity and indices. I know that after the initial learning curve of FI security markets and weekly awareness of ones chart indicators financials are MUCH easier. I have made my inferior pace numberz(cj user) and speed figs for decades,finally finding some great tools 12 years ago. My proprietary speed figs/method created in chicago in late 1940's is another of the gems butt Finding value is the largest problem in T-handicapping even with good tools.. there is not enough dumb money around these shark infested waters MOST of the time.. ;) however its FUN.

[Harmonicaslim]

Has this book appeared yet?


Thanks,
Slim

[Overlay]

I see where the release date was pushed back from September to October (which is half-over by now anyway). Gambler's Book Club has it listed in their on-line store, but with no picture or description. Probably not quite out yet.

[Tom Barrister]

It's out. I browsed it about a week ago at Gambler's Book Club. I don't know enough about it to offer a review (not a speed reader :D).

[TRM]

I ordered the book today. So hopefully will receive it in a few days. I'll post a review later.

TRM

[Valuist]

He was on Larry Grossman's show yesterday (starting around the 49 minute mark) http://www.cardplayer.com/larry_grossman/

He said it was available at the Gambler's Book Club and www.eclipsepress.com

[Lemon_Drop_Kid]

He gave a brief synopsis of the book on the radio show, but the interview was only ten or so minutes long. What struck me was the uniqueness of his theory and I guess we all know that is what it takes to win today---not churning up the same old ideas. I guess Ripple has been around for five years or so and got started with American Turf Monthly. I plan on ordering the book later today.

[banacek]

Well, I got this book a week or so ago and was not impressed. I've read almost every book on handicapping and this didn't really give me one nugget. And I love the concept of relating the stock market and handicapping, but this didn't do much for me.

[Shuffletracker]

I'll put this one on my " to get list".

[American Pie]

It's obvious that the author definitely knows his subject. "Handicapping the Wall Street Way" is an excellent example of an author who writes from experience. He takes the time to explain why he is winning certain races, and I found that extremely helpful. It really is cutting edge stuff an and excellent book on handicapping. I consider myself an advanced handicapper on her way to being a professional, so I'm not sure how Mr. Ripple's peers will view this book, but I liked it a lot. Sure pace, and speed handicapping have their place, but those methods are so out of date that its quite hard for anybody to win with them. Sure, it may not win an Abel Prize in mathematics, but I don't think that was Mark E. Ripple's intent. It is written in an easy to understand way that anybody can follow. Did you see that he hit Pleasant Home at 30-1 on Breeder's Cup day? Quite a feat considering he made that pick the Monday before race day! Great luck with it! Tara

[RobinFromIreland]

It's obvious that the author definitely knows his subject. "Handicapping the Wall Street Way" is an excellent example of an author who writes from experience. He takes the time to explain why he is winning certain races, and I found that extremely helpful. It really is cutting edge stuff an and excellent book on handicapping. I consider myself an advanced handicapper on her way to being a professional, so I'm not sure how Mr. Ripple's peers will view this book, but I liked it a lot. Sure pace, and speed handicapping have their place, but those methods are so out of date that its quite hard for anybody to win with them. Sure, it may not win an Abel Prize in mathematics, but I don't think that was Mark E. Ripple's intent. It is written in an easy to understand way that anybody can follow. Did you see that he hit Pleasant Home at 30-1 on Breeder's Cup day? Quite a feat considering he made that pick the Monday before race day! Great luck with it! Tara

Maybe i'm out of order here, but i tend not to trust a review that is a person's first ever post on this forum, especially one that sounds more like and advertisement rather than an analysis, and completely contradicts another forum user's review of the book. Would you be able to provide an example of "cutting edge stuff" available in the book?

[GameTheory]

Maybe i'm out of order here, but i tend not to trust a review that is a person's first ever post on this forum, especially one that sounds more like and advertisement rather than an analysis, and completely contradicts another forum user's review of the book. Would you be able to provide an example of "cutting edge stuff" available in the book?I think you'd be right in this case about that review. This book sucks, plain and simple. What it has to do with Wall Street I can't fathom. And what the hell is an "Xtra" winner? (It says that on the cover.) There is nothing cutting-edge in this book, in fact there is practically nothing at all in the book. If anyone who thinks of themselves as an "advanced handicapper" finds anything of value in here, they are not nearly so advanced as they think.

There is one positive, but given what I just said, it is of the "The food here stinks, but at least they give you big portions" variety. That positive is the price -- a $12.95 cover price, quite cheap when most handicapping books these days start at $30 or more. I think this Eclipse press (which is Blood Horse) is trying to compete with the DRF series of books. It looks like they've entered market war to see who can come out with the skinniest books containing the least amount of content. (This book is only 80 pages or so.) So at least it won't cost you much or take you too much time to not learn anything from this book.

As far as the actual contents, it starts out talking about the efficient market hypothesis, which has been covered in much greater detail and more intelligence right here on this forum. So just do a search if you want to know about that. Then he goes on to suggest you categorize yourself as a bettor by the level of risk you are willing to accept -- I guess this is supposed to the "Wall Street Way". He provides a short multiple choice quiz to guide you. Once you decide if you are a risk-loving bettor or a conservative bettor (or in the middle), he gives two or three selection angles for each type (longshot strategies for risk-lovers and chalky strategies for conservatives -- moderates are supposed to bet them all I think). The angles are extremely simple and aren't going to make anyone any money.

He makes it sound like he has come up with something new -- a new way of looking at things, an alternative path from the methods of the masses that don't work, etc. There is NOTHING -- NOTHING -- in this book that is the slightest bit alternative and it contains no new ideas.

[banacek]

He makes it sound like he has come up with something new -- a new way of looking at things, an alternative path from the methods of the masses that don't work, etc. There is NOTHING -- NOTHING -- in this book that is the slightest bit alternative and it contains no new ideas.

I've read it too and absolutely agree. I would not recommend it.

[TRM]

GT,

I have to agree 110% with your review. I bought the book thinking there may be a nugget......NOPE. :ThmbDown: The only positive was the price $12.95

[midnight]

I only glanced through it for a few minutes when I was over at the house of somebody who owned it, but the parts I read sound like something you might find in a primer for beginners. Nothing original or special.

[highnote]

I've always said that one good idea is worth 50 bucks. I sped through the book, but did not get one good idea. However, I will read it thoroughly and hope to recoup at least some of my investment.

Someone else asked about the "Xtra" in the title. I kept thinking I was going to read some interesting way of using Cary Fotias' speed figures called the "Xtras".

So far I rate the book a big :ThmbDown: :sleeping:

But I do give him a :ThmbUp: for effort.

[GameTheory]

Someone else asked about the "Xtra" in the title. I kept thinking I was going to read some interesting way of using Cary Fotias' speed figures called the "Xtras".
I was thinking he (or the publisher, since the term is never used in the book the author probably had nothing to do with the cover) was trying to associate the work with Fotias, a cheap ploy. But then since Fotias is basically an unknown outside of hardcore handicapping circles, that doesn't make much sense either. Of course, the whole supposed concept of the book is a cheap ploy (the Wall Street connection)...

[Memogram]

I will skip looking at the book based on the above reviews, but at least there is some competition to the DRF's book series -- I would rather look at books that have new authors than "formula" books written by DRF employees passed off as experts.

[rrbauer]

There is an interview in Monday's WSJ with Ken Gregory who is one of the guys who runs the Masters' Select family of mutual funds. This is his summary of the performance criteria used to select fund managers:

"It all starts with a well defined process that is executed with a high degree of discipline. There are an awful lot of smart people in the investment business, but not very many of them are consistently successful. We think the reason is that not many of them have a truly well-defined process and are truly disciplined in executing it. The stock pickers that we like really want to win and they work very hard and very creatively at maintaining an investment edge....We like to see a high degree of focus, without too much on the plate of the stock picker other than the stock picking itself. Many great investors also are independent thinkers."

If Gregory had been talking about horseplayers, he might have said this:

"It all starts with a well defined process that is executed with a high degree of discipline. There are an awful lot of smart people in the horse-betting business, but not very many of them are consistently successful. We think the reason is that not many of them have a truly well-defined process and are truly disciplined in executing it. The horse pickers that we like really want to win and they work very hard and very creatively at maintaining an betting edge....We like to see a high degree of focus, without too much on the plate of the horse picker other than the horse picking itself. Many great horseplayers also are independent thinkers."

The parallels are evident.

I know many people who are well grounded in both stock picking and horse picking. To a person, they agree on one thing: Stock picking is easier!

[andicap]

Have you seen how the Masters Select Funds do?

Most of them fare worse than the S&P 500 or below their funds' benchmarks.

[PaceAdvantage]

Have you seen the money they pay to some of the Hedge Fund managers in NY? Check out the top of this list! Somebody's doing something right!


http://newyorkmetro.com/guides/salary/14497/index1.html

[andicap]

Masters Select isn't a hedge fund, although I'm not sure you're implying that it is. It's a mutual fund with stock selections from supposed superstar stock pickers.

I used to love reading the Wall Street Journal's stock picking contest between four experts and a dartboard. The "Dartboard Portfolio" would win a lot! Eventually the WSJ got rid of the column, I guess either because it had run its natural course or it got pressure from Wall Street because it was making the analysts look bad!!

[rrbauer]

Have you seen how the Masters Select Funds do?

Most of them fare worse than the S&P 500 or below their funds' benchmarks.

Is there a point to your post? I am not pushing the Masters' Select Funds in any way, shape or form. I don't own any of them and never have although since inception they are in the top 25% of their respective Morningside peer-group rankings so it depends on the time frame that you pick before you start pissing.

I just thought the interviewee's recruiting criteria was interesting vis-a-vis the parallels it offered to horseplayers.

[PaceAdvantage]

I was just trying to point out that certain stock pickers (and I would venture a guess that Hedge Funds do engage in the picking of stocks, whether short or long, short-term or long-term) can be very successful, and way outperform their peers.

[highnote]

Have you seen the money they pay to some of the Hedge Fund managers in NY? Check out the top of this list! Somebody's doing something right!


http://newyorkmetro.com/guides/salary/14497/index1.html

Chelsea Clinton is getting $120,000 per year consulting for Mackenzie. Not bad for a young consultant.

[Lemon_Drop_Kid]

This is a link to Cindy Pierson Dulay's review of Handicapping the Wall Street Way. It's fairly comprehensive and seems to be unbiased. It makes the Wall Street connection, says it is excellent for novice to intermediate players, and the only 'con' is that is is limited when discussing longhots and exotics.

http://horseracing.about.com/od/bookreviews/gr/aagr110905.htm

I ended up getting it and personally, I liked it. He makes a good point about place pools. It's interesting to me that she said it was limited when discussing exotics as there is a whole chapter on exactas. My review of the review lol is that it's good.

I guess one has to consider where they are when reviewing any book. There is work out there that not even a PhD could understand, and at the same time some books on handicapping could be coloring books.

[banacek]

This is a link to Cindy Pierson Dulay's review of Handicapping the Wall Street Way. It's fairly comprehensive and seems to be unbiased.

I'm glad you found some things in the book that were of use for you. Just didn't do anything for me.

But the reviews on Cindy Pierson's site are always positive (4 stars out of 5 seems minimum - 5 stars out of 5 common) so I don't pay much attention to them. It is hard for them to be unbiased when there is a link to buy the book at the end of the review.

[Triple Trio]

I find this book totally useless. Someone commented that the only positive thing about this book is that it's cheap. Pity those of us who live overseas and have to pay for the shipping cost. :mad:

[Achilles]

There always seems to be something popping up about the connection between the stock market and wagering on horses. Certainly the personality traits and skill sets of successful investors and bettors are similar, but I've never been able to understand the supposed similarity in the two markets. When lots of people like a stock, its value increases and buyers can cash in at the higher value(s). On the other hand, when lots of people like (wager on) the winner of a race, they get less of a return per wagered unit than if only a comparatively few folks wagered on the winner. What am I missing? I'm sure that someone on this forum will "enlighten" me.:D

[Memogram]

"When lots of people like a stock, its value increases and buyers can cash in at the higher value(s)."

Buyers can't cash in at the higher value, the people that owned the stock prior to the increased demand get to "cash in." Those buyers then have assumed risk at the higher stock price, just as horseracing bettor has assumed risk at the lower odds of a horse that has drawn much of the money wagered. Seems very similar to me. It is boils down to Risk vs Return and that is how the pari-mutuel market and stock market are similar -- final results are unknown when taking a position in a stock or on a horse, the outcome not close to certain for either -- you can lose or you can gain. The main differences is that historically the stock market has risen greatly vs. the costs of trading (commissions), while the pari-mutuel market player is up against a steep takout.

[Achilles]

When I say that people "like" a stock, I mean that lots of folks are buying it now, betting that it will rise in value later. Then, after it increases, they can show a profit when they sell it. Sorry if I did not express myself clearly in my original post.

To your point about takeout: Aren't capital gains taxes similar in that they are a tax on winners, like the takeout? I pretty much agree with what you said re the skills required of the bettor/investor, but risk/benefit analysis seems somewhat easier in horse betting because you can see what your payoff probably will be from the tote board.

Cheers............Achilles

[Tom]

A group with one member (and one post). :)

NO flamming at all! :jump:

[Tom]

Well, this IS remarkable - we have a no-poster here. 0 posts, yet, that fact is presented in a post!

This must be a Baaaad book (that I just BOUGHT!) for someone to not even get credit for posting about it! :lol:

PA, we got ghosts herre?????

[PaceAdvantage]

That was due to the mini-meltdown that happened a month or two ago....a couple of post counts may have lost a post, and this was one of them....

[facorsig]

I initiated this thread and should post my opinion towards closing out this thread.

I read the book in about 1-1/2 hours two nights ago. The author is not a skilled writer. Like a lot of horse racing books, he repeats certain information far too much. The book is also small and thin (starts on page 11 and ends on page 82 with blank and significantly less than full pages between. I will not agree with the author with respect to Martingale betting and in over simplifications regarding professional, rational and irrational bettors. The book appears to have been written over a two week period in November 2004.

I think there are some reasonable points raised with respect to ideas such as wagering on Belmont, types of races to look for (e.g. 3+ yo vs. 2 & 3 yo), and strategies for certain types of races (e.g. MCl and MSW races). Many books I have read advocate avoiding horses higher than 5:1, but the author has some ideas for higher odds horses (not tried). He also tries to tie the ideas together at the end.

Yes, for $10 you don't get a lot, but I have bought some $35 publications which weren't even bound, but highly recommended on PA and thought they were significantly more worthless than this book. Lukewarm recommendation...

Fred

[bobphilo]

According to the book's description it's geared to the "beginer to intermediate horse player". If his whole theory is based on inefficient markets, is he saying anything other than look for value? Don't want to judge it before reading it ,though. Perhaps his money management technique is what makes it unique. I even joined the Yahoo group to get a beter idea of what it's about.

Bob

[highnote]

Well, there's even a Yahoo group -- although maybe Mr. Ripple started it.

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/ripplehandicappers/


They are up to 5 members -- still only 1 post.

[bobphilo]

They are up to 5 members -- still only 1 post.

Somebody finally posted there but it was just somebody asking about Gulfstream's new configeration. Do I actually have to spring for the book to find something out about this method?

Bob

[Lemon_Drop_Kid]

"Do I actually have to spring for the book"

LOL...If everyone who viewed this thread pitched in three-tenths of a cent, the board would have its own copy! :lol:

Quite a long decision process for a $12.95 purchase. LOL I'm betting a lot of "shut-outs" at the betting windows? :bang: Am I right? ;)

I'll be in the other line.:)

[Koko]

It's obvious that the author definitely knows his subject. "Handicapping the Wall Street Way" is an excellent example of an author who writes from experience. He takes the time to explain why he is winning certain races, and I found that extremely helpful. It really is cutting edge stuff an and excellent book on handicapping. I consider myself an advanced handicapper on her way to being a professional, so I'm not sure how Mr. Ripple's peers will view this book, but I liked it a lot. Sure pace, and speed handicapping have their place, but those methods are so out of date that its quite hard for anybody to win with them. Sure, it may not win an Abel Prize in mathematics, but I don't think that was Mark E. Ripple's intent. It is written in an easy to understand way that anybody can follow. Did you see that he hit Pleasant Home at 30-1 on Breeder's Cup day? Quite a feat considering he made that pick the Monday before race day! Great luck with it! Tara

Review by H.R. Fluff 'n Stuff. Employed by the firm American Spam. Advised by Troll Associates.