DRF-Calling Mark -- Huge complaint-bad website

[andicap]

Incidents like this morning is what is driving me -- and others to BRIS/TSN.
I have always strived to give DRF the benefit of the doubt and defended it here.
But now I must join Tom and others who believe the DRF does not serve its customers. (although I have to concede I did get a refund after screaming at a phone rep, who admittedly was just following company directives. I don't blame her. Still the infrastructure DRF has in place is decidedly customer UN-friendly.)
Here's what happened:

I bought the daily plan for Formulator 4, intending to download three cards for today, 9/11. Fine.
I navigated to the Download Data area, found the Formulator 4 files and accidentally clicked on the file for Sept. 14. Understandable since I wanted today's file and just clicked on the most recent date. But I never DOWNLOADED the file -- and that's the key factor here.
So I escaped and clicked on the right date -- Well, the customer friendly DRF tells me I have to buy a whole new Daily Plan since I had already clicked on the Sept. 14 date. (Adding insult to injury, if I did want to download the Sept. 14 cards, I had only two left)
I called the customer service -- got right through. Great!! When I explained my mistake she said they couldn't credit me because then everyone would call and ask for a refund.
I asked if their software could tell if I actually DOWNLOADED the file and she said her computer showed I had downloaded it. Well, I hadn't. Cross my heart and hope to die as we used to say in school.
Now I don't expect the rep to believe me because everyone would lie. So I can't believe that the DRF system can not detect whether you actually downloaded the card or merely clicked on the wrong date by accident and canceled out.
My wife is editor of a publication that covers marketing and e-commerce and she said it would incredible that DRF wouldn't have in place a system to distinguish between whether I had actually downloaded the data or just clicked on it and escaped out.
I'm happy I got the credit, but disgusted that I had to scream at some poor women to do so and that DRF has such a poor back-end system on its site that it can't distinguish between whether anyone had actually downloaded a product or just made a (probably common) mistake and rectified it before downloading.

Moreover, after you buy the Daily Plan data there is nothing that tells you what to do next. You have to know to go to the Download Data site. After you have purchased the plan, the site should tell you to head to Download Data without having to look in a help file or find it myself.

:mad: :mad:

[midnight]

You would think they could handle complaints on a case-by-case basis and give the benefit of the doubt at least once. Some deadbeats will take advantage of them, but overall the goodwill towards the honest customers would result in a better bottom line.

[Tom]

heh,heh, heh.:lol:

[mhrussell]

Andi-

..we feel the good in you.. the conflict. Let go of the Dark Side and come back to the light. :D

"Many choices there are, hmmm, yes, many choices".

[GameTheory]

You would think they could handle complaints on a case-by-case basis and give the benefit of the doubt at least once. Some deadbeats will take advantage of them, but overall the goodwill towards the honest customers would result in a better bottom line.I always assume that they ("they" being any company that does things like this) make it easy to for you to make mistakes ON PURPOSE (or at least don't fix things that are obviously confusing) so that people who aren't going to call the customer service line (which is likely most people) to get it straightened out will go ahead and pay double to get the files they actually want.

On the other hand, technically it may actually be difficult to distinguish whether you got the whole file or not because of the nature of the internet. They might only be able to tell that you requested the file and the transfer began -- it may even show on their end that they transferred the entire file even if you didn't get it. It would help cut down on wrong-clicking if they put a confirmation dialog before the transfer starts, "Is this REALLY the file you want?" but that gets annoying as well...

[NoDayJob]

:lol: 4186 13511419 41131454 18152020514 615181493120151819 :lol:

Ya never have that problem with Posttime Daily either.

NDJ [AKA Troll #1]

[midnight]

For $1.50 a file and no options for ulimited, Post Time Daily SHOULD be error free or at least very easy to use.

[NoDayJob]

For $1.50 a file and no options for ulimited, Post Time Daily SHOULD be error free or at least very easy to use.

Unlimited? Talk to Doug Manley.

NDJ [AKA Troll #1]

[andicap]

Well, I've got to give DRF its due. I got a call from someone there today who wanted to credit my account for the problem. He was very nice, said they were working on a solution to my issue, etc.

That's what I like -- when you complain, the company responds quickly, apologetically, and gives you feedback.

Nice job, DRF.

As an old-school print guy I root for them.

:cool:

[MichaelNunamaker]

Hi Gametheory,

You wrote "I always assume that they ("they" being any company that does things like this) make it easy to for you to make mistakes ON PURPOSE"

Certainly that is true sometimes. I've also seen situations where things like this exist, not because the company is doing this on purpose, but all the company's effort that is put into error prevention is put into preventing errors that cost the company money. If the error harms the customer, the company doesn't care.

Either way, the company in question isn't doing right by the customer.

Mike

[Steveh]

Hi Gametheory,
Certainly that is true sometimes. I've also seen situations where things like this exist, not because the company is doing this on purpose, but all the company's effort that is put into error prevention is put into preventing errors that cost the company money. If the error harms the customer, the company doesn't care.
Either way, the company in question isn't doing right by the customer.
Mike

Todays racing digest has thier website setup so you can download the same file over and over again with only one charge. If TRD can do this maybe DRF could treat thieir customers with the same respect and save them all the frustration and money by making a change in thier software.

I haven't done business with TRD for a long time because I am short financially at this time. I have had a couple problems in the past with Todays racing digest, at least one was my fault, but the people are very nice and they gave me the benefit of doubt at least once and there was no arguing at all. They are just nice folks. I don't work for TRD but it might appear that way. I just like to point out when someone has been fair and courtious with me.

[dav4463]

You have to admit that those days where DRF gives you 11 tracks for $5 (print edition), it is a bargain.

[xfile]

drf has double billed me (in a way) twice this year for MONTHLY plans. I joined a few weeks before the ky derby and paid for a month. Low and behold the day BEFORE the ky derby my password stop working. Had to re-join. Thought at the moment my timeline was messed up. THEN 2 weeks later the day BEFORE the preakness the same thing happened. I havent bought a thing from them since. I give all my business to BRIS now. Too bad because i really like some of the drf products to use as an addition to my yeast run at times.

[highnote]

My belief is that the industry should give data away for free.

I agree that the industry should charge for information. Information is created from data. Data is not useful unless it is turned into information.

My problem is that I don't like the information that is available. If it's information and it's for sale then that means someone else has it. If someone else has the same information as me then that information has been devalued.

So there should be free or low cost data available that we horseplayers can turn into information for our own use.

I'd even register and pay a small fee and agree not to sell information I created from industry data. The source that provides the data could have a more expensive plan for those who wish to use the data to create commercial information. In fact, the industry already has a plan where they sell data for something like $100,000 per year to registered information sellers. That's way too much for someone like me who just wants to bet.

I don't want to resell data or information. And I don't want to buy information that has little or no value to me. I just want to bet based on my own information.

Can someone explain why this option is not offered? I'm open to comments or critiques.

[GameTheory]

My belief is that the industry should give data away for free.

I agree that the industry should charge for information. Information is created from data. Data is not useful unless it is turned into information.

My problem is that I don't like the information that is available. If it's information and it's for sale then that means someone else has it. If someone else has the same information as me then that information has been devalued.

So there should be free or low cost data available that we horseplayers can turn into information for our own use.

I'd even register and pay a small fee and agree not to sell information I created from industry data. The source that provides the data could have a more expensive plan for those who wish to use the data to create commercial information. In fact, the industry already has a plan where they sell data for something like $100,000 per year to registered information sellers. That's way too much for someone like me who just wants to bet.

I don't want to resell data or information. And I don't want to buy information that has little or no value to me. I just want to bet based on my own information.

Can someone explain why this option is not offered? I'm open to comments or critiques.
The industry does not believe it will come out ahead this way. They feel they will lose more in data sales than they will gain in increased wagering. They see the data as a product separate from wagering and do not want to devalue that product. This is quite stupid of the industry of course because free data would cause not only people like yourself to bet more, but for there to be an explosion in handicapping products in general. Some of these new products would undoubtably be of quality and would be marketed by clever people. Lots of new people would be attracted to the game and wagering would skyrocket. (You'd have existing bettors betting more, and new people betting that didn't bet at all before.) They are too dumb to ever do it (without being forced to by market forces anyway) because it entails risk -- what if wagering doesn't skyrocket and now they just lose their data sales money? The fact that Santa Anita was able to raise its handle by half a million in one day just by reaching out to a segment of its current (but dormant) market and giving them some free forms and free parking should show the industry that people are craving this kind of attention. They don't seem to realize the basic offensiveness of the idea of charging you high rates just for the privilege of taking your money in the form of bets.

[Tom]

I am all for free data!

John, run for something and I'll vote for you! ;)

Talking about greed, I understand they are charging admission to OTB parlors now???????
Now THAT is low.

I have a long standing rule - they pay me or I don't go in. :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown:

[GameTheory]

I am all for free data!

John, run for something and I'll vote for you! ;)

Talking about greed, I understand they are charging admission to OTB parlors now???????
Now THAT is low.

I have a long standing rule - they pay me or I don't go in. :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown:
What if you went to a Vegas casino and they wanted to charge you $10 to get in the door so you can go lose your money at craps? Outrageous, unthinkable, right? But the tracks do it every day, with only a few exceptions. (Are there any tracks left that don't charge admission for the grandstand, or have free parking? )

[highnote]

What if you went to a Vegas casino and they wanted to charge you $10 to get in the door so you can go lose your money at craps? Outrageous, unthinkable, right? But the tracks do it every day, with only a few exceptions. (Are there any tracks left that don't charge admission for the grandstand, or have free parking? )

Mountaineer has free admission and free parking. They have the nerve to charge for programs, though.

However, they also have slot machines in the grandstand -- so that explains the free admission and parking.

[GameTheory]

Mountaineer has free admission and free parking. They have the nerve to charge for programs, though.

However, they also have slot machines in the grandstand -- so that explains the free admission and parking.Ahh...the racinos, of course. The slots aren't going to get them to give away data, though.

[Tom]

What if you went to a Vegas casino and they wanted to charge you $10 to get in the door so you can go lose your money at craps? Outrageous, unthinkable, right? But the tracks do it every day, with only a few exceptions. (Are there any tracks left that don't charge admission for the grandstand, or have free parking? )

Finger Lakes is free parking, free admission, both grandstand and clubhouse.
Coffee is $35.95, but heck........:eek:

[highnote]

I am all for free data!

John, run for something and I'll vote for you! ;)

I would like to announce that I intend to run for President of the United States in 2012. Tom, thanks for your support.

I think I've got a good chance to beat either one of the incumbent women who win 2008 -- Condi or Hillary. :D

Actually, I shouldn't laugh. Who else is there?

[rokitman]

Jesse Ventura. He has a new look. It's much more presidential. Real old school. All he needs is a bullet in the back of his head from some crazed actor http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/sports/jesse-ventura/ventura_president_bx113.jpg

Hey, he went from running his yap on "wrestling" shows to being governor of Minnesota. Maybe being a spokesman for BetUS.com is the presidential track these days. It is a country with an ever-expanding population of nitwits.

[Suff]

He was a guest on THE BIG show with Donny Deutsch last week. He's actually shaved off the sides , and has Braided the chin portion. It dangles about 6 inch's below his chin, with a couple of small beads at the bottom.


He's leaving the United States. He is interested in the world he says. Going to Thaliand, singapore and from there, where ever it takes him.

The guy was a navy seal, actor, mayor and Governer. No joke. But unique.

[JackS]

Andi or other DRF customers I have a question. Every now and then when downloading DRF pp's, I run outta ink and have to re-download a couple of races. I do this without every leaving the page since I always notice it right away. The question- Do you think DRF counts this a seperate download thus charging my account?
I'm sure someone is going to suggest that I check the remaining downloads before starting but doubt that few people do this. I never have.

[andicap]

I've never asked DRF, but I do know BRIS lets you download each track as many times as you want for each day.

[rokitman]

Andi or other DRF customers I have a question. Every now and then when downloading DRF pp's, I run outta ink and have to re-download a couple of races. I do this without every leaving the page since I always notice it right away. The question- Do you think DRF counts this a seperate download thus charging my account?
I'm sure someone is going to suggest that I check the remaining downloads before starting but doubt that few people do this. I never have.

I had something similar happen the day before I quit that site for good. And, yes, I did get billed twice. That was a 4 years or so ago though.

[sevenall]

Andi or other DRF customers I have a question. Every now and then when downloading DRF pp's, I run outta ink and have to re-download a couple of races. I do this without every leaving the page since I always notice it right away. The question- Do you think DRF counts this a seperate download thus charging my account?

Do you mean that you guys don't save a copy of the pdf file before you print it? This would avoid what you're running into.

[Tom]

And another thing....why doesn't DRF offer an option to download the whole card at once? How many people take all the charts as opposed to one of two?

[Marc At DRF]

1) Download the same card at DRF.com as many times as you'd like, you're only charged once. In fact, download the Formulator (basic) and PDF file for the same card, and you're only charged once. If you're a 4.0 customer, download all three of the files for the same card, and you're only charged once.

2) PDF files for charts are processed the way they are for the print editions, which is one at a time-- all the website does is mimic print in that regard. To do full-card charts in one file is a surprisingly expensive undertaking, with no revenue in it. Sorry. I agree it's annoying.

3) If you've ever been double-charged for anything, which is a rarity, it's likely the remnants of an e-commerce system that's actually in the final stages of being replaced (after BC but before year's end). Anyway, please contact newsletter@drf.com with any complaints of this nature. We're happy to clear it up and hook you up with some extra cards if it happened.

[kingfin66]

1) Download the same card at DRF.com as many times as you'd like, you're only charged once. In fact, download the Formulator (basic) and PDF file for the same card, and you're only charged once. If you're a 4.0 customer, download all three of the files for the same card, and you're only charged once.



Marc,

Does this apply to the BC advance? If we buy it now, we can download it after the post draws and ML odds are published?

[cj]

It remains available until some time in November for those who have bought it.

[melman]

Philly Park and all of its Turf Clubs (what they call the OTB's) has had free admission and free parking for a long time. Plus in the winter if you get there early Keith Jones will buy you a coffee. :D

[Marc At DRF]

No, BC advance is a separate product from the Belmont PPs for that day, which include a couple extra races, closer looks, etc.