Clinton's Hurricane

[Lefty]

Hillary is saying that Bush ruined Bill's Fema. Hmmm. How did Bill's Fema do in 1999?
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/7/134914.shtml?et=y?

[lsbets]

Lefty, come on, seriously, there hasn't been a hurricane to hit the US like this one since the Galvaston storm. Anything Clinton did or reacted to as President is totally meaningless when looking at what has happenned with Katrina.

[Lefty]

lsbets, that's the point. Hillary is saying Bush ruined Bill's Fema, yet Fema did poorly under Clinton under less stressful conditions. I'm friggin tired of the left blaming Bush for every damn thing that happens in this country and i'll point out Clinton's failures every chance I can get.

[ljb]

Interesting Lefty,
Last night Jon Stewart said. "Katrina is Bush's Monica." :D :D :D
Ya gotta watch this show it is funny.

[Secretariat]

lsbets, that's the point. Hillary is saying Bush ruined Bill's Fema, yet Fema did poorly under Clinton under less stressful conditions. I'm friggin tired of the left blaming Bush for every damn thing that happens in this country and i'll point out Clinton's failures every chance I can get.

Lefty, the quote below is form your article...my question, why didn't Jeb Bush commandeer every school bus in the state to get those people out?

"But I want to show you some video of Hurricane Floyd. This was the evacuation scene out of Florida last year. And you can recall, some three-million people in three different states were hitting the highways, jammed back-to-back trying to get away from the danger. And much of the local as well as the federal government was criticized for this backup.

[lsbets]

Sec, what's your infatuation with Jeb? Do you have a man-crush on him?

Lefty - I'll use Sec's reply as an example of why it is pointless to bring up Clinton. It diverts attention and scrutiny from the events of today, and that is exactly what guys like Sec want - they want the public to get a quick overview of a bad storm that makes Bush look bad, but they don't want any digging into it because they know the facts don't do so.

[Secretariat]

I lived in Florida for a time Is...Fact is I just missed Andrew and knew a heckuva lot of friends from that one. They couldn't get out either in time.

As to Jeb, well, it just seemed Jeb spent more time on Terry Schiavo than he did on disaster preparations in Floyd after reading Lefty's article. Thanks Lefty.

btw..I did not bring up Clinton. Lefty did.

[Lefty]

sec, why do you friggin libs have to bring up a poor dead girl who was deprived of her rights? Have you no soul at all or has the Dem party devoured it?

[Lefty]

lbj, you have no sense of humor and the key word is sense.

[Lefty]

lsbets and sec, the point of the articcle is Fema now that Hillary is saying...
Oh wat the hell, I give up.

[Secretariat]

lsbets and sec, the point of the articcle is Fema now that Hillary is saying...
Oh wat the hell, I give up.

I apologize Lefty. Honestly.

However, you did not answer my question.

"Why didn't Jeb Bush commandeer every school bus in the state to get those people out during Hurricane Floyd?"

[lsbets]

Lefty, don't give up, I'm just trying to show you its a diversion and it doesn't matter. Look how Sec once again tries to make the issue Jeb Bush and school buses. The issue is hurricane Katrina and the response leading up to and after the storm. Shit from the 90s simply doesn't matter.

[Secretariat]

Lefty, don't give up, I'm just trying to show you its a diversion and it doesn't matter. Look how Sec once again tries to make the issue Jeb Bush and school buses. The issue is hurricane Katrina and the response leading up to and after the storm. Shit from the 90s simply doesn't matter.

Shit from the 90's does matter since it is invoked often enough on this board. I've heard Clinton so many times on this board as the person responsible for everything bad that has ever occurred.

But Lefty does raise an important issue. There have been hurricanes before that have caused massive evacuations, and in all those times there has never been an instance of a governor or mayor commandering school buses to evacaute the citizenry, yet Nagin has been taken to task on this board over and over for not doing what Jeb Bush and others failed to do as well, and Nagin had but 24 hours to do so.

So let's just drop that piece of absurdity and move on.

[lsbets]

Okay Sec, here ya go:

The NO plan called for using school buses, I have no clue what plans in Florida or other states called for. No one knows how many people are dead right now and how many people might have been saved if the city's plan had only been followed.

There was a lot more than 24 hours notice that a really big storm was coming, they just didn't take it seriously until 24 hours out. So your 24 hours stuff is nothing but pure bullshit. But, the truth never matters when you post.

[Bobby]

We're talking 1+ million people. For 80% to evacuate is an incredible feat in my opinion. Especially since in the last 10 or so hours before landfall the storm moved to the east a tad and hit Biloxi head on, rather than NO.

All this talk about the gov and mayor using school buses to evacuate people as the levees are breaking is just not practical. In fact, its utterly ridiculous. Its a lame excuse for the real perpetrators - the federal govt. It makes absolutely no sense to use school buses to evacuate 200,000 people. It took the govt a full week to do it after the storm.

[lsbets]

Bobby, who is talking about as the levees were breaking? Here is my quote:

There was a lot more than 24 hours notice that a really big storm was coming, they just didn't take it seriously until 24 hours out. So your 24 hours stuff is nothing but pure bullshit. But, the truth never matters when you post.

It seems that your ability to read is on par with your understanding of how government works.

[Bobby]

Do the math LS. 50 people fit on a school bus. Nagin would had to have started evacuating people while the hurricane was way out in the Atlantic to have a chance at being successful.

Bush what does he do? Hot dogs around at his ranch in TX and then flys over the destruction. Then 2 days later decides its time to make a visit. Does he watch TV or get breifings or read the paper?

[lsbets]

Oh, I get it Bobby - it would be really hard to follow the plan in place so to hell with the people who can't drive themselves out, right? Don't bother even trying because it would be tough. Yes, his plan - HIS plan (Nagin) called for a mandatory evacuation 72 hours out. He didn't follow it.

Your intestinal fortitude in the face of great challenges is even more astounding than your comprehension of government and your rgeat reading skills.


"Its tough, so don't try". Is that your motto?

[Lefty]

You guys refuse to get my point with this thread and you sec have decided to completely circumvent it. Maybe the Dems are too dense but i'm surprised you didn't get it, lsbets. It was about Fema and Hillary saying it's been ruined by Bush when under less stressful circumstances it wasn't effective unser Bill either. Geez, I weary havong to explain this over and over, so that's it.
Bobby, no they couldn't have evacuated everybody with those friggin school busses but they could have saved a evacuated a bunch. It would even have been smart to evac the jailbirds to another prison or facility rather than turn them loose, which was insane.

[lsbets]

Lefty, I get your point. Government bureacracy is not good at doing much of anything, and more bureacracy is never a solution to a problem. That's why I thought the Dept of HS was a bad idea when it was first created.

[Bobby]

Its gonna cost $1 billion a day. Pretty expensive. A new levy, one a little taller, say 10 feet taller probably just a few hundred million. Definitely not in the $100s of billions though. Just a shame. What a nice city NO was. The booze, the women, the Jazz, the creole cookin' and of course the beads for the ladies.

RIP - fats domino

[lsbets]

The boos? Is that something for Halloween? or did you mean booze? :)

[Bobby]

Yea, I changed it to "BOOZE." The hand grenades & kamikaze's. The margaritas. I used to go down pretty frequently. I was there last MArch. Stayed at the Hilton. Went down on Bourbon. Had a blast. Get some fresh gulf shrimp, along with crawfish and gumbo. Damn I getting hungry. Lunchtime

[Lefty]

Bobby, there is more than 1 levee and a thirty yr prob you're now trying to lay on Bush exclusively. Here's something ya don't know. Ea levee in NO is under it's own little govt control. Ea one controlled by a diff body. That waswhat Rush revealed the other day. Bush was on the ph to the Gov begging her to declare an emerg he was not just laying around the ranch and if you truly blve that you are a very dense man or boy as the case may be.

[boxcar]

All this talk about the gov and mayor using school buses to evacuate people as the levees are breaking is just not practical. In fact, its utterly ridiculous. Its a lame excuse for the real perpetrators - the federal govt. It makes absolutely no sense to use school buses to evacuate 200,000 people. It took the govt a full week to do it after the storm.

Hmm..."lame excuse", "utterly ridiculous", "just not practical". Then was were school buses an integral part of the city's emergency and evacuation plan? You just condemened an awful lot of polticians who drew that plan up.

Boxcar

[Bobby]

All I gotta say is that while BUSH was hot dogging around his ranch and Brown and Chertoff dicking around DC, Wal-Mart was sending 100s of loads of relief supplies to the victims. Its a damn shame when a private company can beat the govt to the rescue. FEMA and DHS can show up for some trailer-park tornado, yet leave NO with bodies in the streets and attics of homes and no response for 4 or 5 days. 25,000 Body Bags sent to LA - shouldn't happen anywhere in this world.

And you got 1+ million displaced. And you guys try to blame NAGIN because of freakin "school buses." Gimme a break.

[Secretariat]

You guys refuse to get my point with this thread and you sec have decided to completely circumvent it. Maybe the Dems are too dense but i'm surprised you didn't get it, lsbets. It was about Fema and Hillary saying it's been ruined by Bush when under less stressful circumstances it wasn't effective unser Bill either. Geez, I weary havong to explain this over and over, so that's it.
Bobby, no they couldn't have evacuated everybody with those friggin school busses but they could have saved a evacuated a bunch. It would even have been smart to evac the jailbirds to another prison or facility rather than turn them loose, which was insane.

Isbets, you keep saying there was a lot more time than 24 hours,. I posted a timeline that shows at the most an additional 12 max to that, and that's iffy. Barbor declared a state of emergency AFTER Nagin. He just asked for a mandatory evac sooner. The Alabama gov didn't declare until well after Nagin. I won't repost stuff from the other thread, but the timeline with the Hurricane Center is in that thread.

Lefty,

God bless you, ya didn't give up. Yes, I understood that FEMA received some complaints during Floyd because of the flooding. And ya know what? It in no way justifies a complete bungling by this FEMA. When it comes to natural disasters, just cause something may have happened in as you say Clinton's hurricane doesn't forgive a disgraceful performance by this FEMA. That is terrible logic, and nobody wins when lives lost.

As to the buses, my point is that other governors and mayors have had that option and yet none have used them, including Jeb. So to knock Nagin when even Jeb rejected the option seems a bit surprising from those on the right.

[lsbets]

Sec - what part of using the buses was in the plan that he approved do you not understand? Every governor and mayor in the world has access to buses, but Nagin's plan said he would use them, and he didn't. Are you really that dense?

[ceejay]

I rarely post on political threads, but even if FEMA was broken before GWB, Bush has been President for almost five years, including nearly 4 since 9/11. This should have been ample time to fix FEMA. FEMA (and others) failed.

[lsbets]

Sec - it seems you want to use the declaration of a state of emergency as the benchmark for when evacuations should have started. LA had a state of emergency declared by the governor on Friday the 26th, which while not 72 hours, is certainly in the range of 66 hours before landfall, a far cry from the 24 you keep touting.

[Tom]

"Shit from the 90s simply doesn't matter."

That certainly describes Clinton to a T. :rolleyes:

[Tom]

Lefty....I'm on your page 100%.

Bobby seems to think Bush could have done something miraculous in a hsorter time frame than NO had. THEY WERE THE ONES who put together the evacuation plan, they had 72 hours to implement it, and FAILED to do so,
so I guess it OK with Bobby that NO in fact, had NO plan other wait for someone else to come in and do thier job for them.

Let's review:

Bobby is happy that NO

1. Lives in a bowl under water next to a lake
2. Has no viable plan for evauation
3. Refused to allow the Red Cross enter the area with supplies.
4. Blam Bush for the total lack of plannig and execution by NO and LA.

Lefty, save your fingers - this guy can't read. In spite of everything, once the Feds got in, everyting started getting done, and the locals somehow found enough buses to get the cops to Las Vegas.

OK, well now......:sleeping:

[PaceAdvantage]

I love it when folks can blame Bush for not getting themselves out of the way of a Category 4 or 5 hurricane....

What's next? Blame Bush the next time you take a leak and miss the bowl?

[Lefty]

bobby, your RIP Fats Domino a little premature. I heard Fats was found alive with friends in the French Quarter.

[Secretariat]

I love it when folks can blame Bush for not getting themselves out of the way of a Category 4 or 5 hurricane....

What's next? Blame Bush the next time you take a leak and miss the bowl?

See this is where you don't get it. I don't blame Bush for not getting people out before the storm. i blame him for his response AFTER the storm. That's the whole point.

[Tom]

I love it when folks can blame Bush for not getting themselves out of the way of a Category 4 or 5 hurricane....

What's next? Blame Bush the next time you take a leak and miss the bowl?


I thought Reagan was the "trickle down" president!
:rolleyes: :blush:

[PaceAdvantage]

See this is where you don't get it. I don't blame Bush for not getting people out before the storm. i blame him for his response AFTER the storm. That's the whole point.

I read that Bush was fully prepared to go into LA with the full resources of the federal Gov't, but was turned down by the Governor a day or two before the Hurricane hit. Is this true?

It's only after the shit hit the fan that state and local officials went crying to Daddy Bush for help....by that time, it was too late....they had to wait a day or two while they ramped up the forces they were going to ramp up had the Governor signed off on the Bush plan IN THE FIRST PLACE....

Weird how there are so many different accounts of what went on prior to the storm hitting the city.

[lsbets]

I read that Bush was fully prepared to go into LA with the full resources of the federal Gov't, but was turned down by the Governor a day or two before the Hurrican hit. Is this true?

According to several accounts it very well might be. The reports claim she was worried that if she brought the feds in before the storm she would be seen as weak and a failure. Hmmm, as opposed to how she is seen today, err, nevermind.