Shake You Down at Charlestown?

[michiken]

Its sad to see a formerly great sprinter at the likes of Charlestown... Obviously the owners have no clue when to retire the horse?

[takeout]

Alw nw1in6 with a 30K purse. Easy money for the connections.
http://drf.com/pdfchart/CT0905040.pdf

[rastajenk]

It's a gelding that's still making money. Why should he be retired? Do you think the horse has some innate sense of class entitlement, and that running at Charles Town might hurt his feelings?

[SmartyMarty]

It's a gelding that's still making money. Why should he be retired? Do you think the horse has some innate sense of class entitlement, and that running at Charles Town might hurt his feelings?


Do the words:

a)Character
b)Sportmanship
c)Class

yada yada

play an itzy bitzy role in defining your life's perspectives?

[cj]

Why should the horse be retired?

Sure, he may have lost a few steps, though judging by last night, not too many. But, unless you have some inside info that the horse is injured, and not just getting old, I see no reason not to run the horse. Maybe the horse actually likes racing, as many of them do.

I'm not so sure Emmit Smith, Jerry Rice, or Doug Flutie would agree with you, by the way!

[SmartyMarty]

Why should the horse be retired?

Sure, he may have lost a few steps, though judging by last night, not too many. But, unless you have some inside info that the horse is injured, and not just getting old, I see no reason not to run the horse. Maybe the horse actually likes racing, as many of them do.

I'm not so sure Emmit Smith, Jerry Rice, or Doug Flutie would agree with you, by the way!


I would retire the horse for the same reason that many great athletes take leave..

ya wanna be remembered for the glorious days...

but you are you

I am me

and it really don't matter..

maybe you'd run em till they drop dead on the track...
like the nag at Saratoga yesterday..

good luck ta ya buddy..

[JustRalph]

The horse doesn't give a damn where he runs or what the hell anybody thinks of him. come on Marty? Classic anthropomorphic thinking

[midnight]

Maybe they should have kept racing Cigar, too. Drop him in class until he's racing in "written-for" optional claiming races against $2,500 claimers at Yavapai or Penn National. A small track would love to write a race once a month or so for the likes of Cigar and bolster the purse enough so that the rest of the entrants would be racing for what they usually race for if the star wasn't present. Something like:

OPTIONAL CLAIMING. Purse $30,000. For ten-year-old geldings
with career earnings of over $4,000,000 or horses to be claimed for $2,500.

The horse might not know the difference, but the connections do. It should be a matter of pride, and it hurts the dignity of the game to reduce a former star to a common race at a minor track. It gives the industry a bad name by repeatedly showing the fans that money is the almighty motivator which rules all. It's all about image, imo, and this sends the wrong message to the public.

[cj]

I'm not sure what conditions you guys are reading, but this was hardly a cheap claimer. It was a conditioned allowance race with a nice purse. The horse could very well step up and win a stakes race again.

As I stated earlier, maybe the horse actually enjoys racing, as many have said in the past about horses, and some have even been unretired to keep them happy.

Maybe they should have kept racing Cigar, too. Drop him in class until he's racing in "written-for" optional claiming races against $2,500 claimers at Yavapai or Penn National. A small track would love to write a race once a month or so for the likes of Cigar and bolster the purse enough so that the rest of the entrants would be racing for what they usually race for if the star wasn't present. Something like:

OPTIONAL CLAIMING. Purse $30,000. For ten-year-old geldings with career earnings
of over $4,000,000 or horses to be claimed for $2,500.

The horse might not know the difference, but the connections do. It should be a matter of pride, and it hurts the dignity of the game to reduce a former star to a common race at a minor track. It gives the industry a bad name by repeatedly showing the fans that money is the almighty motivator which rules all. It's all about image, imo, and this sends the wrong message to the public.

[ezpace]

YOu guys remember Polar Expedition?? they tried to retire him to a couple farms.. unhappy horse . to ole to race now.. he is back at his beloved chicago tracks as Hugh Robertson's pony horse... an happy...

[SmartyMarty]

Maybe they should have kept racing Cigar, too. Drop him in class until he's racing in "written-for" optional claiming races against $2,500 claimers at Yavapai or Penn National. A small track would love to write a race once a month or so for the likes of Cigar and bolster the purse enough so that the rest of the entrants would be racing for what they usually race for if the star wasn't present. Something like:

OPTIONAL CLAIMING. Purse $30,000. For ten-year-old geldings
with career earnings of over $4,000,000 or horses to be claimed for $2,500.

The horse might not know the difference, but the connections do. It should be a matter of pride, and it hurts the dignity of the game to reduce a former star to a common race at a minor track. It gives the industry a bad name by repeatedly showing the fans that money is the almighty motivator which rules all. It's all about image, imo, and this sends the wrong message to the public.


ya see Midnight got brains AND the ability ta put common sense inta words..

I only possess the former...

Tanks fer helpin me out pal..

[46zilzal]

These guys love to run! Friend had one here winning at 11 and tied the track record at 10. One of the greatest Q-horses of all time won until the legal limit of 11 (Kaweah Bar) and, ironically, when he was retired to a farm in Utah, it was only then he broke a leg and had to be put down.

[JackS]

Retiring from the big leagues to the Cal Fairs circuit should be heaven for horses who still want to run. Sunny California, Travel every month or two to a new oval, meet new horses, meet new people, in short heavenly simi-retirement which should be much more interesting for the horse rather than wandering aimlessly around a pasture for the rest of his life. The easier compitition will also make this horse a big fish in a little pond so to speak which should add to his ego and ultimatly his mental health. Aaaah, the golden years..

[tholl]

The horse is only seven, not seventeen !!! If he's sound I don't see a thing wrong with running him. Many sprinters are still in their prime at this age. Sure he's not quite as good as he was. But it would be different if he was running badly either from being sore or gone sour or simply too old. But he won for fun yesterday, and it was probably just what he needed. An easy win to restore his confidence, now I would expect to see him back in New York and competitive.

It would be different if he was running for a tag; THEN one would say that money is the only motivator. However since he's not for sale it would appear that his connections still have faith in him and have targets up the road.

In any case how can he possibly be compared to Cigar ? Apart from his two huge races, second in the de Francis and third in the Breeders Cup who did he beat ? To call him a "star" would be an exaggeration.

[JustRalph]

I caught a 9 year old at MTR a few times that made me some serious jack...........his name was "Rockmill Two" anybody with a database look that guy up and see when he last ran. I don't think he runs anymore........But he always ran his heart out..........and seemed to relish it...........at least from what I could perceive from the TV screen, it seemed he liked it..........hell, he might have been spitting fire back at the barn.........at 9 years old.

[tholl]

I caught a 9 year old at MTR a few times that made me some serious jack...........his name was "Rockmill Two" anybody with a database look that guy up and see when he last ran. I don't think he runs anymore........But he always ran his heart out..........and seemed to relish it...........at least from what I could perceive from the TV screen, it seemed he liked it..........hell, he might have been spitting fire back at the barn.........at 9 years old.

He last raced Dec 28 2003 at the age of eleven; three days short of being twelve. However he really looked ready to be retired. He placed a few times but could not win at ten and eleven and his last few starts were horrible.
Lifetime: 91-9-17-15 $122,660

[frankfig]

I dont see any problem running him in that spot,or at that track. You cant even come close to calling him a great horse ! He is a solid sprinter who could still win some races and if he is sound he could win a stakes race or 2 in the winter at aqueduct

[The Hawk]

I think the problem that some people have with this is that they think NY is a major circuit and CT is a bush circuit. In actuality, CT racing is excellent, and the purses are strong, obviously. In fact, I'd bet these same guys would have no problem with this horse running in a similar allowance in NY...except a race with these conditions would never fill in NY.

[JustRalph]

He last raced Dec 28 2003 at the age of eleven; three days short of being twelve. However he really looked ready to be retired. He placed a few times but could not win at ten and eleven and his last few starts were horrible.Lifetime: 91-9-17-15 $122,660

Thanks Tholl. This guy was a hard knocker. if my half ass math is right, he was in the money almost half of his starts and won around 10% of starts. Not bad really. I wonder where he is now.......... I am afraid to ask.

[chickenhead]

hard enough for these owners to not lose their ass, without placing some kind of weird restriction on them. If they've got a gelding that can run some, I say run him till he can't. I've got no problem with these guys recouping some of their losses...assuming the horse isn't suffering.

You should be glad I didn't own Cigar..he would have toured the Fair Circuit, no doubt. Ferndale Marathon, baby. Shake You Down, Eel River Sprint..4K added.

[Tom]

Why should the horse be retired?


I'm not so sure Emmit Smith, Jerry Rice, or Doug Flutie would agree with you, by the way!


Jerry Rice might! He retired today.:D

What do you call a 7 yo gelding at Finer Lakes?
A juvinile!

[Valuist]

It was a classified allowance race and he won easily. It's not like he's running for $10,000 now. He apparently still can run pretty good; maybe not BC Sprint worthy but definitely still solid. I see no reason to retire him now.

[Suff]

NYRA did and I suppose still does, have a "Horses of Racing Age" sale. It goes on right on the grounds. Very similiar to the yearling sales you see at Keeneland and the like. They parade 6,7 and 8 year old horses out for private sale.


You see some real old warriors on the NY Circuit that are put up for chump change when they can't compete there for serious money any longer.

They put out a catalogue for it. You can call the racing office and get yourself put on the Mailing list. I remember thumbing through it and seeing GIANTS similiar to Shake you Down that were being run out for 8,9 10 grand. Some other very talented allowance horse's just two years ago that were being fire saled for 4 and 5 grand.

When I flip through I remember certain races/horses that I bet on, horses I liked from a fans perspective and so on. It was a bit disappointing sometimes to see a horse go from the BIG STAGE to an OFF OFF OFF BROADWAY production like C=Town, Suffolk downs etc....

At the same time..I have seen many, literally hundreds over the years, BIG PRICE horses that never made it to NY, FL, KY or CA. Two years ago at Suffolk, Burton Sipp had two horses in his stable that sold for $750,000.00 and $500,000.00 respectivley, at Kentucky Auctions, that never ran for more than 10 Grand in thier life due to Injury, or Growth iregularities.

Imagine spending almost a Million dollars to buy a Yearling and get him ready to race at 2 or 3 Years old, and he makes his debut at 4 in a MDCLM5000 at Suffolk Downs? Thats heartbreaking as well.

[Doc]

Did he run already, or is he entered to run? The link to DRF.com in the second post doesn't work...and I can't find him either in the entries or results. I went back as far as the 4th.

[Suff]

Did he run already, or is he entered to run? The link to DRF.com in the second post doesn't work...and I can't find him either in the entries or results. I went back as far as the 4th.

The thread was 5+ months old. I was just browsing through old threads and felt like commenting.

I have no idea what Shake You Down is up to nowadays

[cj]

He ran 4th of 5 in a conditioned allowance at Belmont on October 10th at 5-2.
He easily won a conditioned allowance at Laurel on January 9th at 6-5.
He then ran 3rd in a conditioned allowance at Laurel on February 1st at even money.

[tahoesid]

Looks like 20031228 at MNR for Rockmill Two

[CryingForTheHorses]

Why should the horse be retired?

Sure, he may have lost a few steps, though judging by last night, not too many. But, unless you have some inside info that the horse is injured, and not just getting old, I see no reason not to run the horse. Maybe the horse actually likes racing, as many of them do.

I'm not so sure Emmit Smith, Jerry Rice, or Doug Flutie would agree with you, by the way!

Most horses especially older geldings LOVE to run,I myself won 5 out of 9 and 3 in a row with 10yo's.Believe it or not..SOME are even mad that they got beat!!

[twindouble]

I caught a 9 year old at MTR a few times that made me some serious jack...........his name was "Rockmill Two" anybody with a database look that guy up and see when he last ran. I don't think he runs anymore........But he always ran his heart out..........and seemed to relish it...........at least from what I could perceive from the TV screen, it seemed he liked it..........hell, he might have been spitting fire back at the barn.........at 9 years old.

I lost a few steps as well, look where I'm at now. :lol: Just kidding, I like it here and I'm sure as heck not going to quit the game. :cool: