Pedigree in Turf Races

[xfile]

I find pedigree in turf routes are a fantastic way to find longshot winners. For years I've used this. It doesn't matter whose ratings you use. I've used them all and the best turf pedigree will almost always get the highest rating. When these horses are 8-1 or higher I am all over it. Was wondering how many of you employ this in your handicapping :eek:

[nobeyerspls]

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I learned about turf sires when I got involved with breeding. For those using the Tomlinson's in the Form, a word of caution. While the sire is important, the female side often has more influence. Look at the broodmare sire and also at what the dam has produced.
For a clue as to surface preference, it helps if a first time turfer has had a lousy race on an offtrack. If they have and the female side says grass, bet with both hands.

[The Judge]

Breeding has always fascinated me especially turf breeding and horses that are might get a route of ground. Also I've hit a few long price horses $75-$100 by watching a horses stride in dirt races. Some horses have stride that seems to be the type of stride that you see on turf not on the dirt. If they finish in the back of the pack and they will, you can get huge prices when they are on the turf for the first time.

[KingChas]

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I learned about turf sires when I got involved with breeding. For those using the Tomlinson's in the Form, a word of caution. While the sire is important, the female side often has more influence.If they have and the female side says grass, bet with both hands.

From day one never did cut off that 10% for female side.As Tomlinson said some people improvised on his ratings with success when he 1st published.Posted a thread about this (female side)a while ago here at PA -no replies. :bang:

[xfile]

From day one never did cut off that 10% for female side.As Tomlinson said some people improvised on his ratings with success when he 1st published.Posted a thread about this (female side)a while ago here at PA -no replies. :bang:

My success is looking mainly at sires but if see a damsire with a high turf pedigree i consider it a bonus. It's just amazing how many winners at big odds i've gotten simply betting the one horse in the turf route with the best turf sire.

[Tom]

Mark Crammer makes an interesting point in his lastest C&X Report - that the Tomlinson Numbers no longer seem to have the powerr that they had prior to being mass produced in DRF. The resoning is not the loss of value by over exposure, but the fact that DRF variety of the "Tommies" are not the same as before. When Tomlinson sold his numbers every quarter, we could look up both sides of the pedigree and DRF only offers the sire side.

I don't have Tomlinson numbers in any of my dtabases, but I wonder if anyoe who does could look into this. My gut feeling is that the "tommies" are no longer worth considering seriously - just my perception, but far too many low rated horses are winning on turf. If using the dam side figures would improve the DRF variety, I would be interested to know.
Sad day when Lee went public ( not for HIM, proabably:eek: , but for me, a huge edge was lost).

Thanks goodness for Mike Helm and his non-computer numbers.

[KingChas]

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Sad day when Lee went public ( not for HIM, proabably:eek: , but for me, a huge edge was lost).

Thanks goodness for Mike Helm and his non-computer numbers.

TOM, no database still using -believe it or not Tomlinson 2000 rating guide with success but much more work.The figs are totally different from the forms.I have 05-06 sire ratings from Mike Helm but when it comes to turf still use LT,s.Big difference from form when using female side. ;)

So in eccense I'm using grandfather/great grandfather ratings for mom.Maidens/firsters only.Always was behind the times. :D