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JustRalph
08-31-2005, 09:40 AM
This is the kind of crap that gets published now days. And some will actually believe this crap.........it is amazing what these left wing idiots get away with.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr/afor-they-that-sow-the-_b_6396.html

ljb
08-31-2005, 10:46 AM
Just,
You have taken a simplified approach to this subject. The link suggests that Barbour and Bush's refusal to accept the fact that global warming is increased by the the release of co2. Accepting this would put pressure on fossil fuel suppliers and automobile companies. And we all know how the neocons revere corporate America. Now here is a quote from the column.
"Well, the science is clear. This month, a study published in the journal Nature by a renowned MIT climatologist linked the increasing prevalence of destructive hurricanes to human-induced global warming."
Again the neocons refuse to face reality and accept such tragedies as Katrina rather then do something which may have an adverse effect on corporate America's bottom line.

lsbets
08-31-2005, 11:06 AM
That's funny, just last night I saw a Professor Gray from the Univ of Colorado on MSNBC and he said hurricanes go through cyclical cycles in terms of number and severity of storms, and that Katrina has nothing to do with global warming.

BTW - MSNBC referred to him as one of the leading hurricane experts in the country.

ljb
08-31-2005, 12:09 PM
ls,
Yes I know there are experts on both sides of this topic. I am not saying my expert is better then your expert, I am just saying, there is some evidence that global warming is part of the cause of increased hurricanes. Rather then ignore this evidence we should consider it when we make decisions concerning the Kyoto agreement and other such things. We must be open minded about these type things.
This administration makes decisions much like corporate America based only on the bottom line.

lsbets
08-31-2005, 12:13 PM
I am not saying anyone is my expert of not. I'm saying we don't know. Anyone who tries to say otherwise is full of it. We don't know.

Open minded? On a personal level I make choices everyday that I feel are good for the environment, but I don't want the government to force me to make those choices. A good example is once they deregulated electricity in Texas I switched to wind generated power even though it costs more. My choice to make, not the governments.

ljb
08-31-2005, 12:17 PM
ls,
I have no argument with your last post.

lsbets
08-31-2005, 12:20 PM
ls,
I have no argument with your last post.

I'll make sure not to go outside today, because I have a feeling lightning might strike. ;)

kenwoodallpromos
08-31-2005, 12:41 PM
How does Bush raising the MPG for SUVs help the oil companies profit and cause global warming? You said he makes decisions based ONLY on the bottom line.

ljb
08-31-2005, 09:18 PM
How does Bush raising the MPG for SUVs help the oil companies profit and cause global warming? You said he makes decisions based ONLY on the bottom line.
Basically the law raising the MPG for Suvs is helpful to the Auto companies. A lousy 2 mpg in 6 years. gimme a break. I have no tie in to global warming and giving the auto companies a break. Don't know how you came up with that ?

Tom
08-31-2005, 09:27 PM
If anyone cause a hurriane, it was Teddy - that big bag of wind! :D


Actually, considering the proximity to Mexico, it might be related to that huge sucking sound Ross Perot spke about - our jobs going south!:mad:

Lefty
09-01-2005, 12:35 AM
Yeah, it's all GW's fault. He controls nature you know. If he'd signed the Kyoto traty well the hurricane wouldn't have happened.
What about Clinton? No hurricanes in his 8 yrs? Hmmmm?

Steve 'StatMan'
09-01-2005, 01:00 AM
I don't have cable, but I caught Britt Hume's video clip on Fox. Cindy Sheehan is also publicly blaming "President Bush and his war machine" for Hurricane Katrina for similar reasons to Kennedy's. :rolleyes: :bang:

He also showed 2 pictures, the first of a 'great private moment' of Cindy and Rev. Al Sharpton praying together over one of the small crosses (I'm guessing Casey's). Then they showed the 2nd photo of this, which shows at least 10-15 journalists, photographers, people with cameras and/or microphones on sticks, all crowded around them for what really amounted to a staged publicity stunt. :eek: :rolleyes:

schweitz
09-01-2005, 01:22 AM
I don't have cable, but I caught Britt Hume's video clip on Fox. Cindy Sheehan is also publicly blaming "President Bush and his war machine" for Hurricane Katrina for similar reasons to Kennedy's. :rolleyes:

A different opinion: www.techcentralstation.com/083105JKG.html

Secretariat
09-01-2005, 01:44 AM
A different opinion: www.techcentralstation.com/083105JKG.html

C'mon Scheitz, at least post a scientist...American Enterprise Institute...this guy is basically a right wing lobbyist.

"James K. Glassman is a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, a Washington public policy think tank, where he specializes in issues involving economics, technology and financial markets. He is also host of TechCentralStation.com, a public affairs website that concentrates on matters of technology and public policy. He is also chairman of Investors Action, a new advocacy organization for America's small investors."

Lefty
09-01-2005, 01:47 AM
Scweitz, these libs just will not let themselves be confused by facts. In this, they are conistent just as they are consistent in their hatred of Bush.
From the article:
Giant hurricanes are rare, but they are not new. And they are not increasing. To the contrary. Just go to the website of the National Hurricane Center and check out a table that lists hurricanes by category and decade. The peak for major hurricanes (categories 3,4,5) came in the decades of the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s, when such storms averaged 9 per decade. In the 1960s, there were 6 such storms; in the 1970s, 4; in the 1980s, 5; in the 1990s, 5; and for 2001-04, there were 3. Category 4 and 5 storms were also more prevalent in the past than they are now. As for Category 5 storms, there have been only three since the 1850s: in the decades of the 1930s, 1960s and 1990s.

I guess the nat'l hurricane center is rightwing too.

schweitz
09-01-2005, 01:52 AM
C'mon Scheitz, at least post a scientist...American Enterprise Institute...this guy is basically a right wing lobbyist.

Did you read the whole article?

Do you mean scientists like Cindy Sheehan and Kennedy? :D

boxcar
09-01-2005, 02:39 AM
Looking at the devastation along our Gulf coast states, I became curious as to which of our international friends have come running to our rescue, as we do every time one of them is hit by disaster.



Lets see, France, who owes their freedom and independence from the Nazis to us must have broken records getting aid to our shores. Money, oil, gasoline? It boggles the mind to imagine what treasure the French have donated to our southern cites in need, but I have not found this on any of the news shows yet has anyone seen what must be a sizable commitment to our well being?



Looking at a more recent beneficiary our selfless benevolence, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia must be leading the list. Both are rich oil producing countries who owe their very existence to our sacrifices ( not that were keeping track, mind you!). Kuwait surely has full tankers laden with crude speeding west as we speak, and most assuredly one of those tankers is carrying cash for immediate consumption by our needy. Saudi Arabia has great influence over the price of oil, so I am looking to see just how low our price per barrel has dropped since Monday. I would guess we are paying about $20 a barrel by now, knowing just how grateful that House of Saud can be.



And what about Mexico, our close friend and neighbor to the south, who share the same Gulf coastline? Surely they had an advantage in term of distance in getting aid to the front lines of this natural disaster. Surly, they are sending oil and gas north, and I just cannot imagine where we will put all that cold cash they must be sending back to us, cash earned illegally here and sent to Mexican relatives over the last year. I am sure they realize that we need it more than they do now and are probably sending it in by the carload.



Kofi Anon must be marshaling the UN felons to funnel some of their oil-for-food booty to our needy. Kofi is always right there on top of human suffering, why just look at what he has done for Sudan, Rwanda..The original Angel of Mercy.


Houston is opening up the astrodome indefinately to provide shelter for upwards of 27,000, who they are helping transport. Inspired no doubt by the good neigbor actins of Houston, the oil companies could not wait to jump in and raise prices through the roof, long before the storm ever hit shore! Talk about being pro-active. Must be they saw those transport busses as a golden opportunity to fleece more money out a disastor. Reocrd profits, and never a thought of helping out thier neighbors, just screwing them worse. Way to go, bastards.

I havent seen actual figures yet, but I am sure our lib friends have come across this information on their daily surfing expeditions searching for things to blame on Bush. Please share.

Since this is a poltically-oriented post, I'm going to add to Tom's thoughts on this thread because of it's political bent. Hopefully, this strategy will help maintain the peace in the House of Pace.

FNC today on its scroll banner wrote that Germany offered assistance, and some radio talking head yesterday claimed that Japan offered to send some of its strategic oil supply to us, if we needed it. A Free Republic thread claims that Russia offered aid to us. This might be the most legit of the claims since a link was posted to the russianjournal site that talks about the offer.

http://www.russianjournal.com/news/cnewswire.shtml?nw=48834#n48834

Scroll down to find the article.

But let's look at this subject from a different angle for a moment. Since help from our international "friends" seems to be pretty slow in coming, thus far, what about help from America's corporate friends? You know...the eeeevil corporations that the Left dearly loves to lambast. Well a buddy of mine sent this to me yesterday:

DearLess-Than-Decent Left:
We interrupt your previously scheduled shrieking of "Blame Chimpy McBushitlerCo!" and "We can blame this all on global warming!" to bring you this much-needed dose of reality:
We don't want to ruin your little view of the world, but America's corporate giants are stepping up in a big way to help those in need.
Just a quick summary:
• Ford Motor Company is allowing customers affected by the Katrina to defer payments for the next two months, penalty free.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news/index_mail.shtml?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/08-30-2005/0004096512&EDATE=

• For those with two and four-legged friends,Petco is holding a national fundraiser through their stores, asking customers to "round up" their purchase to help those critters in need.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news/index_mail.shtml?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/08-30-2005/0004096181&EDATE=


• Anheuser-Busch issending more than three hundred thousand cans of clean drinking water.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news/index_mail.shtml?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/08-29-2005/0004096079&EDATE=

• Lowe's is not onlymatching customer donations to the American Red Cross up to $1 million, they're on the case with trucks and supplies.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news/index_mail.shtml?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/08-29-2005/0004096001&EDATE=

• The company that the Left loves to hate is taking the lead. Wal-Mart 1) already gave$1 million to the Salvation Army, 2) is using all 3,800 stores to raise money, 3) is sending trucks and trucks of supplies (many of which they don't even account for) as we speak, and 4) have already gotten a store in Kenner, LA open for supplies.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news/index_mail.shtml?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/08-29-2005/0004095869&EDATE=

And many more to come… Right now, in conference rooms and offices across the country, executives are meeting not to discuss whether or not to help – but how much to help, and how to effectively help those in need.
And global domination. And finding out where every Lefty in the country is, so that John Ashcroft's unfinished projects can finally be completed. (See, we do care about your mental health, guys.)
In seriousness, as Americans, we should be grateful that we have such good neighbors in our corporate citizens. Remember: Those corporations are run, staffed by, and held by Americans and other humans -- not soulless androids. Having seen my share of hurricanes the last couple of years, I can tell you this will all be needed, and more. Hats off to the folks who are putting their money down, without even being asked.
It's kinda helpful to remember that every so often.

I, too, believe that this small list of corporations represents a very small sampling of what Corporate America will be doing for the hurricane victims.

Boxcar

boxcar
09-01-2005, 03:13 AM
I quickly perused the PR Newswire site to see if I could find any other corporations stepping up to the plate. This is what my quick and incomplete search turned up:

PG&E offers crews and financial assitance to victims.

Center Point Energy dontates $250,000.

Stater Bros. Supermarkets Partners With KCAL-9/CBS-2 to Raise Funds For Victims of Hurricane Katrina

Johnson Controls Donates $1 Million to American Red Cross for Disaster Relief in U.S. Gulf States

McAfee, Inc. Teams with American Red Cross on Hurricane Katrina Relief Efforts

Fluor to Donate $100,000 to Hurricane Katrina Relief Effort

U-Haul Comes to Aid of Employees Affected by Hurricane Katrina

Community Coffee Company Hurricane Response

The National Trust Announces Relief Efforts for Gulf Coast Region Affected by Hurricane Katrina

Pepco Sends Crews to Assist in Katrina Aftermath

The Weather Channel to Give More Than $1 Million for Hurricane Katrina Relief Efforts

Wachovia and Its Employees Respond to Hurricane Katrina

Humana Foundation Donates $1,000,000 to Gulf Coast Hurricane Relief

To read the stories, just go to the site and click on "Today's Stories" and let your mouse do the scrolling. You'll find one story after another.

Since Tom mentioned our "friends" at Saudia Arabia, the same site posted this story:

WASHINGTON, Aug. 31 /PRNewswire/ -- King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz today called U.S. President George W. Bush offering condolences to the victims of the disaster and the people of the United States from the government and people of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia over the loss of life and destruction caused by Hurricane Katrina.
King Abdullah affirmed that Saudi Arabia stands with the United States as it faces this tragedy, and is ready to provide assistance to mitigate its
effects and consequences.
On Monday, Minister of Petroleum and Mineral Resources Ali Al-Naimi stated that Saudi Arabia stands ready to immediately increase its crude oil
production to 11 million barrels per day, and sustain that level to replace
any market shortages resulting from the effects of Hurricane Katrina in order
to stabilize world crude prices.

This press release is distributed by Qorvis Communications, LLC on behalf of the Royal Embassy of Saudi Arabia. Additional information is available at the Department of Justice, Washington, DC.



SOURCE Royal Embassy of Saudi Arabia, Information Office
Web Site: http://www.saudiembassy.net

Boxcar

lsbets
09-01-2005, 08:42 AM
Gov Perry issued an order to allow any children affected by the hurricane to attend school in Texas, and they do not have to show proof of immunizations. They're opening a shelter up here in Dallas at Reunion arena.

On another note, I know Cindy Sheehan's tour was supposed to stop in Houston today as she drives to DC. Has anyone heard whether or not she's going to cancel the Houston appearance given what is going on with the flood of people heading there trying to piece their lives together? Seems like it would be the decent thing to do.

schweitz
09-01-2005, 11:01 AM
Boxcar---thanks for the corporate list---there is no doubt that this list will grow considerably larger in the coming days. As a side note, at the checkout stand yesterday at Costco I was asked if I wanted to donate to Katrina relief---when I got home and looked at my receipt my last line item said Red Cross---don't know if Costco is matching or not but still a public service to ask every customer and make it so easy.

Secretariat
09-01-2005, 11:16 AM
...And finding out where every Lefty in the country is, so that John Ashcroft's unfinished projects can finally be completed.

That is the most frightening statement I've ever heard. i had hoped Lefty was unique, not cloned.

boxcar
09-01-2005, 11:17 AM
On another note, I know Cindy Sheehan's tour was supposed to stop in Houston today as she drives to DC. Has anyone heard whether or not she's going to cancel the Houston appearance given what is going on with the flood of people heading there trying to piece their lives together? Seems like it would be the decent thing to do.

I wouldn't expect anything too decent to come out of her mouth or her actions. She's already blamed Bush for the disaster along the Gulf Coast. It's all his fault, according to her "pearls of wisdom".

Moreover, Cindy'Cane claims we wouldn't be having all this looting and mayhem going on in the stricken areas if America didn't have troops in Iraq; for we'd have a sufficient numer of National Guard on hand to handle the situation -- not only to protect life and property but to assist in rescue operations.

I personally find megabytes of irony in her remarks, for not too long ago the Left Wing Whackos were deriding and belittling the National Guard due to Bush's service therein. The NG, according to the Left, is merely a haven for cowards and yellowbellies and underachievers and such. The NG isn't the real thing. It's not like being on active duty in the Army, Marines, Navy, etc. -- the real military where real men serve.

But now this country has a disaster on its hands of unprecendented proportions, and all of a sudden the Left is looking toward the NG to help bail out the vicitims, protect property, protect lives, etc. The NG now is good enough to do this work, but was just some namby pamby orginization when Bush served in it.

The world is not a large enough place to contain all the inconsistenceis and hypcrisy on the Left.

Boxcar

chickenhead
09-01-2005, 11:32 AM
there is an article in Nat'l Geographic this month about hurricanes. The surface temp of the ocean seems to rise and fall in decade long stretches, and it does not sound like anyone particularly knows why..but when it's warm, look out.

The surface temps from 1995-2004 have been consistently higher than from 1985-1994, and the increase in hurricanes has been dramatic. The last time the temps were as high as they are now, was back in the 30's, 40's, and 50's, we seem to be in the midst of that level of hurricane activity.

We will see more Katrina types until things cool off.

Secretariat
09-01-2005, 11:39 AM
I agree this is not the time for finger pointing, but when Bush gets on TV today and says "No one could have anticipated the levees would break."...well, he's just flat out wrong, and is either lying to the public, or is just ignorant. When he decides to go to a golf course to give a speech on medicare the day before the hurricane strikes...you have got to wonder about his priorities. There certainly was enough knowledge in advance.

But I'll restrain my anger and pray for those folks in NO. I've sent in my Red Cross donation and I hope these poor people get the help they need. THe pictures of people with no water in the middle of hot and miggy NO is too much to bear.

Bobby
09-01-2005, 12:11 PM
The state & fed officials act like they don't know what to do. But, then again, you got 1 million people who are basically homeless.

I wanna know why those folks still don't have bottled water. Its Thursday. the military doesn't have any problems airlifting food & water to the Kurds? Just drop it in something that floats. Oh bottled water does float! Is this hard to figure out.

boxcar
09-01-2005, 12:24 PM
I agree this is not the time for finger pointing, but when Bush gets on TV today and says "No one could have anticipated the levees would break."...well, he's just flat out wrong, and is either lying to the public, or is just ignorant. When he decides to go to a golf course to give a speech on medicare the day before the hurricane strikes...you have got to wonder about his priorities. There certainly was enough knowledge in advance.

Gee, I'm so happy to learn that you aren't pointing any fingers. :rolleyes: But you just can't help yourself, can you? You just can't resist getting your digs into Bush for something! Just where was he suppose to be the day before the storm? In the WH wringing his hands? Or should he have flown down to join the people in the Super Dome? Just what was Bush suppose to be doing the day before the disaster that wasn't already being done by the various federal departments and agencies in anticipation of the impending disaster?

Now...as far as the levee problem is concerned, it seems to me this was first and foremost a local problem -- as in state, county and municipality. And if those levees have been deteroiating over time, and if they were insufficient to do the job -- did these situations just occur when Bush took office? Everything was just fine with the levee situation prior to him being sworn in?

But I'll restrain my anger and pray for those folks in NO. I've sent in my Red Cross donation and I hope these poor people get the help they need. THe pictures of people with no water in the middle of hot and miggy NO is too much to bear.

Perhaps it's because you're a liberal that you remind me of the hypocritical pharisees of Jesus' day who loved doing things for public recognition. Why have you sounded the trumpet for "alms giving"? While your donation is to be lauded, would it not have been better to not broadcast it? These words of Jesus come to mind regarding the principle of charitable giving:

Matt 6:2-4
2 "When therefore you give alms, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 3 "But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing 4 that your alms may be in secret ; and your Father who sees in secret will repay you.
NASB

One last thing: While you're doing your praying, it might be a good idea to pray that the Red Cross will handle all the donations in a much more timely, efficient, equitable and cost-beneficial manner than they did during the 9-11 disaster.

Boxcar

Steve 'StatMan'
09-01-2005, 12:26 PM
I agree this is not the time for finger pointing, but when Bush gets on TV today and says "No one could have anticipated the levees would break."...well, he's just flat out wrong, and is either lying to the public, or is just ignorant. When he decides to go to a golf course to give a speech on medicare the day before the hurricane strikes...you have got to wonder about his priorities. There certainly was enough knowledge in advance.

But I'll restrain my anger and pray for those folks in NO. I've sent in my Red Cross donation and I hope these poor people get the help they need. THe pictures of people with no water in the middle of hot and miggy NO is too much to bear.

Sec, do you honest think that the State of Louisianna, the City of New Orleans, the U.S. Coast Guard, and the Army Corp of Engineers would need the U.S. President, whomever it would be, to talk to them and convince them that they ought to check and fortify their pumps and levees?! Must the President be responsible for how every single civil servant, state and federal, performs their job?

Bobby
09-01-2005, 12:32 PM
No, Bush has been at his RANCH for the past month, taking the longest vacation of any president in US history. Doing nothing. Making a speech everynow and then.

No one could have anticipated this much chaos, but the govt has been . . . .real, real slow too respond. No food, no water in New Orleans and its 4 days later.

Yet the govt has little problem feeding the AFGHANS and the Kurds.

Lefty
09-01-2005, 12:53 PM
bobby, the govt has responded fast. First of all those people were warned to evacuate. Now we're supposed to get them food and water? Why, so the armed gangs can take it at gunpoint? In case you didn't know, they're making every effort to get those people outta there. It was on ALL the news.
As far as GW's vacation, he takes a working vacation in Crawford TX. Not exactly Martha's Vineyard where Clinton used to hobknob with the rich on his vacations.

Lefty
09-01-2005, 12:57 PM
The left in this country politicizes every event, disease, war and now a national disaster. When you think they're as low as they can go, they get back on the down elevator.
BTW, my wife works at Harrah's here in Vegas and Harrah's has several casinos in the storm areas which they had to shut dn, but they have opted to keep paying the employees and are sending even more relief. Yeah, corporate america has no heart...

Bobby
09-01-2005, 01:04 PM
So where's the GOvernment lefty? The best I've seen is US Coast Guard helicopters with baskets beneath them. The Red Cross has shelters here in Arkansas with thousands of people in them. That's private sector. These folks are here to stay too. They ain't got no where to go for probably a year.

the fact is is that no one knows what to do. A renegade bus is the first to show up in Houston With some 20 yr old male driving it? Absolutely no order or control. WHERE's the GOVT lefty?

Steve 'StatMan'
09-01-2005, 01:09 PM
Bobby, while I've expressed my concern for the people of the disaster region, I'm sorry that I haven't expressed in writing here to you, my sadness and concern for all your relatives and friends that are very likely affected by this horrible calamity, and to you as well as others who care so much about them.

I'm also sorry that I didn't put anything here in writing when Boxcar was 'sticking it to you' in another thread. He was way out of line giving you grief over petty things while you're expressing your heartfelt concern over the people and the region that understandably mean so much to you. I just had to tell you that, and I wish I'd said it sooner.

Steve

JustRalph
09-01-2005, 01:14 PM
But I'll restrain my anger and pray for those folks in NO.

Forget about the restraint........let it rip........I am sure if you let go, something grand will happen.........at least that is what you imply.......come on Sec......you aren't that important and neither is your cause.........to make Bush and any other repub look bad..........

Bobby
09-01-2005, 01:19 PM
Forget about the restraint........let it rip........I am sure if you let go, something grand will happen.........at least that is what you imply.......come on Sec......you aren't that important and neither is your cause.........to make Bush and any other repub look bad..........


Your right. I'm not that important and neither is my cause. All I'm saying is where's the government - & I mean all of it? The military especially.

Its the dems too.

Steve, you don't have to express your sorrow to me, although I do appreciate it.

lsbets
09-01-2005, 01:28 PM
The state & fed officials act like they don't know what to do. But, then again, you got 1 million people who are basically homeless.

I wanna know why those folks still don't have bottled water. Its Thursday. the military doesn't have any problems airlifting food & water to the Kurds? Just drop it in something that floats. Oh bottled water does float! Is this hard to figure out.

Just drop in some food and water - there's a brilliant idea. Think through what would happen if a pallet of water landed on that bridge with a couple of thousand people on it. How many people would be killed in the mad rush to get water? Relief efforts and humanitarian missions need to be organized for a reason. Until the law enforcement folks can keep the relief workers from getting shot at, there's not going to be much relief. The city of NO was clearly not prepared to handle a disaster everyone knew would come sooner or later. Hell, there was video last night of cops looting in one store. The mayor has failed. I imagine there are some legalities involved in having the federal government or the military take over the situation, but they need to be worked around and the city government needs to be removed from the situation and capable people need to be put in charge.

Lefty
09-01-2005, 01:29 PM
I've seen military vehicles all over the place. The govt is there bobby. You see, the military is part of the govt. The nat'l guard is there, and they are part of the govt.

boxcar
09-01-2005, 01:32 PM
Bobby, after reading StatMan's post, I was grieved in my heart. I truly had no idea that you live in a stricken area. Please accept my sincerest apologies.

I was all set to reply to another of your posts that smacked of quite a bit of "armchair quaterbacking" regarding how the rescue and relief effort should be going. But now knowing what I do, I can understand your personal personal frustration. All I will say is that personal frustrations nearly always interfere with well thought-out and planned solutions. I have to think that all government officials and agencies -- from the federal level down to the municipal level -- and all levels in between -- have, by now, a pretty keen sense of the plight of the stricken. I'm sure they're doing everything they can.

Again, please accept my heartfelt apologies.

Boxcar
P.S. And thank you, StatMan, for keeping me in line.

lsbets
09-01-2005, 01:34 PM
I thought Bobby was from Little Rock?

Bobby
09-01-2005, 01:35 PM
I've seen military vehicles all over the place. The govt is there bobby. You see, the military is part of the govt. The nat'l guard is there, and they are part of the govt.


Can you imagine a 20 year old male driving you from New ORleans to Houston on a school bus?

Light
09-01-2005, 01:37 PM
Bobby

If this was a "terrrorist" attack,you know we would be right on it from day1. Actually it was much bigger than any terrorist attack so far and I agree with you that the response has been way too slow. Part of the reason seems to be


A)Bush chopped $71.2 million from the New Orleans Corps of Engineers.Yet they have 4 billion a month for Iraq.

B) About 35% of Louisiana's National Guard and equipment are serving in Iraq. Recruiting for the LNG has been down significantly because people are afraid of being sent to Iraq.

C) Bush policies have allowed developers to drain thousands of acres of wetlands whose gradual dissapearance on the Gulf once stood as a natural buffer from putting NE underwater from a class 2 or 3 hurricane. Studies to protect the region from class 5 hurricanes have been shelved.

D) Money for the NE levees was moved by the Bush budget to homeland security and the Iraq war.

Bobby
09-01-2005, 01:38 PM
I thought Bobby was from Little Rock?

Im originally down from around Monroe, LA. I live in Hot Springs, AR now - a mile or so from Oaklawn. I used to live in Litlte rock

Lefty
09-01-2005, 01:38 PM
bobby, what the hell will satisfy you? Do yuh want GW to drive the bus?
If I was in N.O. i'd be happy if anybody could get me the hell outta there.

Bobby
09-01-2005, 01:40 PM
Lefty read the LIGHT-post #40.

lsbets
09-01-2005, 01:48 PM
So Light, there was no development in NO before Bush? There weren't, oh, lets see, about 200 years to build stronger levees? I guess those LSU hurricane studies I've seen so much about over the last few days didn't actually happen, because you say they've been shelved. That's funny, the Professor from there I heard interviews yesterday really sounded like he had looked into the matter.

schweitz
09-01-2005, 02:08 PM
Bobby

If this was a "terrrorist" attack,you know we would be right on it from day1. Actually it was much bigger than any terrorist attack so far and I agree with you that the response has been way too slow. Part of the reason seems to be


A)Bush chopped $71.2 million from the New Orleans Corps of Engineers.Yet they have 4 billion a month for Iraq.

B) About 35% of Louisiana's National Guard and equipment are serving in Iraq. Recruiting for the LNG has been down significantly because people are afraid of being sent to Iraq.

C) Bush policies have allowed developers to drain thousands of acres of wetlands whose gradual dissapearance on the Gulf once stood as a natural buffer from putting NE underwater from a class 2 or 3 hurricane. Studies to protect the region from class 5 hurricanes have been shelved.

D) Money for the NE levees was moved by the Bush budget to homeland security and the Iraq war.


What a total load of partisan crap. The General in charge of the Corps of Engineers is on record as stating that the levee failure is a design failure and no money would have changed that.
If you want to argue that we could have rebuilt the levees to withstand a large hurricane---we could have--we have known that for decades.
I find it disgusting how some can't wait to try and politcize this tragic event.
The fact is this is the worst natural disaster in a century and it has to be very hard to get help quickly to the places its needed. Everybody wishes things were going faster---but of course you choose to try to make political gain out of it--while people are suffering. :mad:

lsbets
09-01-2005, 02:09 PM
I find it disgusting how some can't wait to try and politcize this tragic event.
The fact is this is the worst natural disaster in a century and it has to be very hard to get help quickly to the places its needed. Everybody wishes things were going faster---but of course you choose to try to make political gain out of it--while people are suffering. :mad:

Amen Schweitz, unfortunatly there are always slimy opportunists ready to pounce.

ljb
09-01-2005, 02:18 PM
The first one I heard politicizing the tragedy was Rush. He was calling the hurricane Katrina vanden Heuvel. Katrina vanden Heuvel being a left wing blogger. This was the day after the hurricane struck.

lsbets
09-01-2005, 02:18 PM
I'm not sure I agree with all of this, in my opinion it is clear the city of NO was not prepared on way too many levels to respond to this, but this is still an interesting point:

"Weve a million people dispossessed and they are suffering. Critics grouse that the response to Katrinas devestation has been abysmally slow. Compared to what? Slow compared to our expectations is the correct answer. Compared to every other nation on the planet, were moving at warp speed to address a natural disaster of extraordinary magnitude.

Watch what happens over the next week, as American aid organizations, religious groups, and willing individuals act. Americas great wealth is matched by its generosity. America is responding decisively to Katrinas tragedy. "

http://austinbay.net/blog/?p=527

lsbets
09-01-2005, 02:20 PM
The first one I heard politicizing the tragedy was Rush. He was calling the hurricane Katrina vanden Heuvel. Katrina vanden Heuvel being a left wing blogger. This was the day after the hurricane struck.

I knew you listened to Rush - you can come clean now - you're a plant of his, right? He has you go on the web and post to make people from the left look bad, doesn't he? I gotta give you credit, you do a heck of a good job. ;)

ljb
09-01-2005, 02:28 PM
Sorry ls,
I found reference to Rush's activities on Crooks and Liars. You can Google Rush and Katrina and find the the reference if you don't believe me.
And yes I am really a Rush supporter. You see I own a lot of pharmaceutical stocks and Rush is our biggest customer. :lol:
Have you seen the latest ad for Oxycontin ? "What a Rush!" :lol:

lsbets
09-01-2005, 02:32 PM
So you didn't hear him? I figured when you said you heard him, that meant you listened to him. I guess you meant to say you read about him. You sure do seem to be obsessed with the guy.

ljb
09-01-2005, 03:49 PM
You are reaching a bit here ls. Not like you to stretch so much.
The first one I read about politizing the tragedy was Rush. Now do you feel better?

lsbets
09-01-2005, 03:58 PM
I'm not reaching ljb, just trying to understand what you were saying. To me, heard came across as listened to. I just wanted you to clarify so no one would accuse you of being misleading.

Steve 'StatMan'
09-01-2005, 04:05 PM
Hopefully Rush didn't blame it on her, just make a joke about strong driving wind. Katrina is a nice, but rare name - I only knew 1 Katrina, that was back in grade school.

Should it ever come up, hopefully people will only be joking if they say they blame the French for building New Orleans below sea-level when they first ruled the area in colonial days. ;) (I thought of that 'joke' last night.)

Secretariat
09-01-2005, 04:20 PM
No, Bush has been at his RANCH for the past month, taking the longest vacation of any president in US history. Doing nothing. Making a speech everynow and then.

No one could have anticipated this much chaos, but the govt has been . . . .real, real slow too respond. No food, no water in New Orleans and its 4 days later.

Yet the govt has little problem feeding the AFGHANS and the Kurds.

You're wrong Bobby that no one could have anticipated this much chaos. There have been study after study on the effects of a levee break of Lake Ponchartrain. The Army Corps. of Engineers knew the leveees were built to withstand a Hurricane 3 level at the most. The city lies below sea level for god's sake. A Hurricane 5 is headed directly for NO, and Bush goes to give a speech on medicare at a golf club. He sets the national priorities.

It's the height of irresponsibilty. There was plenty of time to get water and food in place down there to act quickly. The evacuation of NO should have been mandatory, not volutary. This was a disaster waiting to happen which should have been expected. This chaos is not a surprise. When people have no lodging, their homes are flooded, bodies are lying all over NO, the threat of disease is everywhere, there is insufifiicent water, and food available , it is totally expected what would happen there.

I'm not going to get into a pissing argument with JR and Box over Bush's leadership on this because the people of NO deserve better. I simply commented on Bush's inane statement that no one could have anticipated the levees breaking, and his lack of leadership in going to a golf course to give a medicare speech as a hurricane 5 bears down on the Gulf Coast knowing full well the impact such a storm would have on the region. Spin it all you want. It's another mess and he's been slow to react showing poor judgment.

Bush is the fringgin President of the united States. When he gets behind something, stuff happens. When he gives a speech about medicare at a golf course as a category 5 approaches NO, he is NOT leading.

lsbets
09-01-2005, 04:33 PM
Sec,

Bush declared LA and MS disaster areas BEFORE the storm hit so that FEMA could preposition emergency supplies. The networks called it an "unprecedented" move.

But hey, you guys won't hesitate to politicize anything, because once again you care more about what makes Bush look bad than what is best for the country. Do you watch the news and hope that things get worse everyday?

Bobby
09-01-2005, 04:36 PM
Here is a disturbing article, written by a Clinton staffer, on the Hurricane. Its is politicized.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,372455,00.html

schweitz
09-01-2005, 04:40 PM
Sec,

Bush declared LA and MS disaster areas BEFORE the storm hit so that FEMA could preposition emergency supplies. The networks called it an "unprecedented" move.

But hey, you guys won't hesitate to politicize anything, because once again you care more about what makes Bush look bad than what is best for the country. Do you watch the news and hope that things get worse everyday?

I learned a long time ago that sec has an agenda and will throw anything against the wall if it makes Bush look bad and hope that someone will buy it. If you look at his posts in off-topic he rarely misses a chance to get a shot in regardless of the topic at hand.

schweitz
09-01-2005, 04:42 PM
Here is a disturbing article, written by a Clinton staffer, on the Hurricane. Its is politicized.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,372455,00.html

Yea, Bobby, I saw it yesterday. I assume that is where Light got the misinformation that he posted.

lsbets
09-01-2005, 04:45 PM
We can learn a lot about a lack of foresight from the Clinton staffers. I mean, with the 1993 WTC attack, the embassy bombings, and the USS Cole, they still constructed legal walls which prevented the Pentagon from sharing information about Mohammed Atta with the FBI, so those guys are a good reference for a failure to predict.

Secretariat
09-01-2005, 04:47 PM
I learned a long time ago that sec has an agenda and will throw anything against the wall if it makes Bush look bad and hope that someone will buy it. If you look at his posts in off-topic he rarely misses a chance to get a shot in regardless of the topic at hand.

Whatever. Heres' someone who's there.

A Biloxi Newspaper response:

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001052870

And below shows a little of man's inhumanity to man

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/nation/125297...

Many Tallahassee hotels have told hurricane evacuees they'll have to move by the day of the FSU-Miami football game so that fan bookings can be honored.

BY MARY ELLEN KLAS

TALLAHASSEE - Hundreds of Katrina evacuees who fled to Tallahassee seeking refuge from the storm have been politely told by their hotels and motels to leave this weekend to make room for a football game: FSU vs. Miami.

Hotel space is traditionally scarce any time the Florida State Seminoles take on the University of Miami Hurricanes, one of the choicest tickets on the college football schedule.

But with hotels packed with families from Louisiana and Mississippi, and room space booked for Monday's game for months, hotel operators say they are trying to accommodate the evacuees but have no choice but to nudge them out.

''We have to let them know what's going on in town and they're going to have to leave,'' said Angie Rayman, manager at the Howard Johnson.

Unbeleivable.

Secretariat
09-01-2005, 04:49 PM
I learned a long time ago that sec has an agenda and will throw anything against the wall if it makes Bush look bad and hope that someone will buy it.

I don't have to make Bush look bad....he seems to be doing an excellent job at that himself.

schweitz
09-01-2005, 04:50 PM
I don't have to make Bush look bad....he seems to be doing an excellent job at that himself.

And yet another shot clangs off the rim--- :D

Light
09-01-2005, 05:31 PM
You're damned right I'm politicizing it. If I was one of those NO victims who found out how much Bush took away from NO for his dirty little war,I'd be the New Orleans Cindy. Bush's psychotic Iraq policy of cutting funding for people and projects in this country to kill A-Rabs is coming full circle.Yeah.Some of the victims in NO are indirect victims of the Iraq war.Go back to the 4 reasons I stated. They are Bush facts not fiction. Your denial of them is delusional and sets the stage for repeating the same mistake.

schweitz
09-01-2005, 05:38 PM
Bush took away from NO for his dirty little war

All we need to know about any post you make about politics.

lsbets
09-01-2005, 05:48 PM
The name might be light, but I think the chandelier is missing a few bulbs.

Bobby
09-01-2005, 06:02 PM
I still don't get why they're trying to move 80,000+ people in friggin school buses that only hold 50 a trip?

U'd think the govt could call Southwest, Delta, American, etc and get um on some plans. Less traumatic. We got plenty of $!

Or better than that pull a couple cruise ships up to the port and take them to Galveston and then on to Houston. They hold around 3 or 4,000 people.

Who's calling the shots?

lsbets
09-01-2005, 06:04 PM
Okay - what is the status of the runways at the airport? How would you get people to the aiport or seaport? Are the roads open to get them there?

JustRalph
09-01-2005, 06:06 PM
Hey Sec, Light.....! You guys stomping your feet while you type these tantrums? you guys are friggin unbelievable .............I take that back.......You are believable........just not electable.......

Bobby
09-01-2005, 06:20 PM
''We have to let them know what's going on in town and they're going to have to leave,'' said Angie Rayman, manager at the Howard Johnson.

Unbeleivable.


That's a shame. The manager oughta be shot in da head. What a gouger. They wouldn't done 9-11 victims like that.

JustRalph
09-01-2005, 06:20 PM
Bobby

If this was a "terrrorist" attack,you know we would be right on it from day1. Actually it was much bigger than any terrorist attack so far and I agree with you that the response has been way too slow. Part of the reason seems to be


A)Bush chopped $71.2 million from the New Orleans Corps of Engineers.Yet they have 4 billion a month for Iraq.

B) About 35% of Louisiana's National Guard and equipment are serving in Iraq. Recruiting for the LNG has been down significantly because people are afraid of being sent to Iraq.

C) Bush policies have allowed developers to drain thousands of acres of wetlands whose gradual dissapearance on the Gulf once stood as a natural buffer from putting NE underwater from a class 2 or 3 hurricane. Studies to protect the region from class 5 hurricanes have been shelved.

D) Money for the NE levees was moved by the Bush budget to homeland security and the Iraq war.

And the mean Evil Wizard Bush whipped up a category 5 storm and threw it at the poor souls of New Orleans..........Boo! You are Friggin Transparent you know........

schweitz
09-01-2005, 06:23 PM
I still don't get why they're trying to move 80,000+ people in friggin school buses that only hold 50 a trip?

U'd think the govt could call Southwest, Delta, American, etc and get um on some plans. Less traumatic. We got plenty of $!

Or better than that pull a couple cruise ships up to the port and take them to Galveston and then on to Houston. They hold around 3 or 4,000 people.

Who's calling the shots?

They are doing what they are doing because it is being done NOW. The airport is closed and the time and logistics of cruise ships is prohibitive.

Bobby
09-01-2005, 06:24 PM
I thought a runway wuz open for humanitarian flights, such as these would be.

schweitz
09-01-2005, 06:36 PM
I thought a runway wuz open for humanitarian flights, such as these would be.

Not yet. They are working on it.

46zilzal
09-01-2005, 06:38 PM
Politicians politicize everything.....that's their nature

ljb
09-01-2005, 08:08 PM
I don't have to make Bush look bad....he seems to be doing an excellent job at that himself.
You got it Sec. :lol:

Tom
09-01-2005, 08:53 PM
The airport has been converted to a hospital and the runways are covered completely with incoming and outgoing helicopters. It looks like a military base.

They are transporting sick and injured people and setting up temporary care in the termnials.
Maybe if the locals would stop SHOOTING AT THEM they would have more of them out by now.

You just aren't going to hold them responsible for anything, are you?

Hey, maybe if they had listened for three days, they would have all been OUT by Sunday.... LAST Sunday.

boxcar
09-02-2005, 01:57 AM
I knew you listened to Rush - you can come clean now - you're a plant of his, right? He has you go on the web and post to make people from the left look bad, doesn't he? I gotta give you credit, you do a heck of a good job. ;)

Maybe LJB is a closet conservative on the verge of his coming out party.
:D :D

Boxcar

PaceAdvantage
09-02-2005, 03:20 AM
The people who are politicizing this tragic NATURAL DISASTER in this thread disgust me. Plain and simple. You folks should be every bit as ashamed of yourselves as those who are looting, raping, and shooting at rescuers.

Lefty
09-02-2005, 12:27 PM
46says:Politicians politicize everything.....that's their nature

Except I just don't remember Repubs blaming diseases on Dems or blaming natural disasters on Dems. But the DEms jump at EVERY opportunity to berate this Pres and to hell with the country. But once again, they are showing their true colors and it will hurt them in next election.

PaceAdvantage
09-02-2005, 12:43 PM
Who the hell cares about the next election right now!!?!!???? People are dying and rotting in the streets of an American city.....

Lefty
09-02-2005, 01:02 PM
PA, yeah and the Dems don't care, they can't wait to get to the microphones to bash Bush. That's the point. I have given a donation and that's all I can do right now. My job now, as i see it, is to expose Dems for what they are. I have Dem friends, who are still in the dark as to what their party is all about.
These Dems bashing Bush must think it's going to help em in next election, but I don't think so. They could care less about the suffering going on. They view it as another opportunity to stick it to the Pres.

ljb
09-02-2005, 02:12 PM
They could care less about the suffering going on.
You are referring of course, to the elected officials that chose to stay on vacation for the first couple of days of this disaster ?

JustRalph
09-02-2005, 03:53 PM
And yet another shot clangs off the rim--- :D

:lol: :lol:

Lefty
09-02-2005, 09:13 PM
lbj, perhaps you've never heard of phones?

Tom
09-02-2005, 11:29 PM
I knew you listened to Rush - you can come clean now - you're a plant of his, right? He has you go on the web and post to make people from the left look bad, doesn't he? I gotta give you credit, you do a heck of a good job. ;)

lsbets - what a terrific idea - if you wanted to makethe left look bad, who better than Ljb to be your plant! :jump: :jump: :jump:

Tom
09-02-2005, 11:37 PM
Who the hell cares about the next election right now!!?!!???? People are dying and rotting in the streets of an American city.....

Did you see that old woman in the wheelchair who had died? Not only did they just push her up against the wall, the FOLDED the damn chair with her in it!
Or that father holding his baby up to the camera on CNN this morning, pleading for someone to help him.

Heartbreaking.

We can talk about slow responses and all that later - right now, those are
AMERICANS on the TV screens, and AMERICANS need to step up to the plate.
I, for one, am not going to accept that that is ever going to be acceptable in my country-whatever it takes.

ljb
09-03-2005, 12:24 AM
lbj, perhaps you've never heard of phones?
Sorry Lefty, I guess your right Bush likes to phone it in.

boxcar
09-03-2005, 02:40 AM
Who the hell cares about the next election right now!!?!!???? People are dying and rotting in the streets of an American city.....

Power-hungry politicians only care about are themselves. They're in a perpetual power feeding frenzy. Sadly, their cold, callous hearts and calculating minds only think in terms of how to exploit these kinds of situations for their own personal, finanacial and/or political gain. Trust me when I tell you that there are many well dressed, highly polished, well spoken politicians out there (of all stripes) whose hearts are in no better moral/spiritual shape than those looters' and anarchists' in NO.

Boxcar

ljb
09-03-2005, 03:28 AM
Power-hungry politicians only care about are themselves. They're in a perpetual power feeding frenzy. Sadly, their cold, callous hearts and calculating minds only think in terms of how to exploit these kinds of situations for their own personal, finanacial and/or political gain. Trust me when I tell you that there are many well dressed, highly polished, well spoken politicians out there (of all stripes) whose hearts are in no better moral/spiritual shape than those looters' and anarchists' in NO.

Boxcar
Damn I agree with Boxcar!

boxcar
09-03-2005, 11:54 AM
Damn I agree with Boxcar!

Keep listening to Rush. You might come around yet. :D

Boxcar

ljb
09-03-2005, 11:58 AM
Keep listening to Rush. You might come around yet. :D

Boxcar
Rush would never make a statement like the one you posted.

boxcar
09-03-2005, 12:28 PM
Rush would never make a statement like the one you posted.

You're right. This is because his talent is only on loan from God, whereas mine was permanently gifted to me by the Creator.

Boxcar

ljb
09-03-2005, 01:09 PM
You're right. This is because his talent is only on loan from God, whereas mine was permanently gifted to me by the Creator.

Boxcar
Damn Boxcar,
For a moment there I had thought you had been hit long side the head with a two by four and consequently had gotten some sense. Sad to say you are just as tilted as ever. You have my deepest sympathy. :(

Tom
09-03-2005, 02:11 PM
I wonder how much of the violence and disorderly behavior has to do with the fact that being stranded for 5-6 days means the DOPE has run out?

boxcar
09-03-2005, 02:21 PM
Damn Boxcar,
For a moment there I had thought you had been hit long side the head with a two by four and consequently had gotten some sense. Sad to say you are just as tilted as ever. You have my deepest sympathy. :(

Weep for yourself, since you obviously have zero appreciation for true talent.

Boxcar
P.S. But if you think Rush is lacking in talent, then be quiet, humbly sit at my feet, listen to me and learn. ;)

hcap
09-03-2005, 02:47 PM
boxcar, refering to rush limbo You're right. This is because his talent is only on loan from God, whereas mine was permanently gifted to me by the Creator.
and
P.S. But if you think Rush is lacking in talent, then be quiet, humbly sit at my feet, listen to me and learn
Boxcar Hey box, You have just conclusively disproved intellligent design and demonstrated your ability to be humble :D

boxcar
09-03-2005, 03:13 PM
boxcar, refering to rush limbo [/B] Hey box, You have just conclusively disproved intellligent design and demonstrated your ability to be humble :D

'Cap, reading anything a liberal writes has convinced me over the years that man did not and could not have evolved from the apes, since these critters have repeatedly demonstrated their superior intelligence over those of your ilk. In other words, 'cap, you Libs are all self-made losers -- meaning your condition cannot possibly be attributed to "genetic engineering" orchestrated by chance over an incomprehsible period of time.

Boxcar

hcap
09-03-2005, 03:40 PM
Boxcar,Cap, reading anything a liberal writes has convinced me over the years that man did not and could not have evolved from the apes, since these critters have repeatedly demonstrated their superior intelligence over those of your ilk. In other words, 'cap, you Libs are all self-made losers -- meaning your condition cannot possibly be attributed to "genetic engineering" orchestrated by chance over an incomprehsible period of time.
I guess since a libs' condition cannot be attributed to evolution, it seems to me you are proposing libs then were divinely created. I totally agree. I would add though, specifically to annoy loonies like yourself and throw "MONKEY" wrenches into overblown arguments proposed by same loonies.

Don't tell me, let me guess. Your rebuttal will be- maybe libs de-evolved?? Or -libs are not divinely created. But contra-divinely created by the D_A_A_R_K one. Satan?? :confused:

Just thought I would save you some typing.
And some convoluted thinking.
Vital energy that you surely need to chew gum instead.

:rolleyes:

JustRalph
09-03-2005, 03:45 PM
I wonder how much of the violence and disorderly behavior has to do with the fact that being stranded for 5-6 days means the DOPE has run out?

Tom, I heard the mayor of new orleans say that this became a factor on day 2 after the hurricane. He said that this is why the looting really took off on day two. He said pharmacies were the first target. When all the pharmacies were looted, he said that is when it got really bad.

hcap
09-03-2005, 04:12 PM
I wondered as many who watched this catastrophe, why not airlift water, food and other necessities? Immediately. Sorry I don't buy any silly logistical arguments about this not working.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/02/AR2005090200670_2.html

"As reports continued of famished and dehydrated people isolated across the Gulf Coast, angry questions were pressed about why the military has not been dropping food packets for them -- as was done in Afghanistan, Bosnia and in the aftermath of the Asian tsunami.

Bill Wattenburg, a consultant for the University of California Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory and one of the designers of the earlier food drop programs, said that he has lobbied the administration and the military to immediately begin something similar. He said he was told that the military was prepared to begin, but that it was awaiting a request from FEMA.

"We know very well how to do this, and it's just incomprehensible that we're not," Wattenburg said.

Fema and brown specifically are to be blamed. Unforgivable.

Secretariat
09-03-2005, 04:39 PM
Brown is totally incompetent. He was not qualfied for the job, another political appointee, who worked for the International Arabian Horses organization and was booted out of that due to scandal.

I saw on NBC last night that a lot of people have posted on the internet the location they are at, and that they are alive and in need of rescuing. Yet, not one reporter asked Brown today if FEMA was addressing that.

I imagine there is nothing more frustrating than the daughter who was away at college and knows her parents are alive, knows where they live, that they are out of food and water, and the cell phone battery dies out, and is helpless to get to them. I hope the search and rescue efforts are addressing these type of pieces of information.

hcap
09-03-2005, 05:14 PM
There is a concerted effort underway by brown, chertoff and others, to paint a smiley face on a disgrace. Bush saying we didn't expect the levees to fail?

Anyway, I have been switching around the 3 cable news networks and was very impressed with the reporters out in the field.

Specifically FOX.

Sheppard Smith has done an outstanding job. Geraldo at times as well. Msnbc and Cnn as well. What was noticable was that the Fox guys were having none of the smiley face the anchors at times were painting.

From digby....

Bill O'Reilly is trying with all his might to make this story about "thugs" and bad Democrats but both Fox news reporters on the ground are having none of it. Shepard Smith and Steve Harrigan are both insisting that the story is about people dying and starving on the streets of New Orleans. Smith is particularly upset that the mayor sent buses to the Hyatt today and took tourists over to the Superdome and let them off at the front of the line.

O'Reilly says "you sound so bitter" and said they need a strong leader like Rudy Giuliani. Smith replies that what they needed "on the first day was food and water and what they needed on the second day was food and water and what they needed on the third day was food and water."

O'Reilly is practically rolling his eyes with impatience at Smith's pussified outrage about the plight of a bunch of losers who were asking for it. He really, really wants to talk about scary black boogeymen and steppin-fetchit politicans. It doesn't work out. He looks relieved to move over to the Natalee Holloway story.

....Update: Sean's up now and he's equally uncomfortable with Shep's story about the thousands still stuck on freeways and bridges with no food and water --- who have been ignored for days now. He's been covering one single bridge for days and nobody knows why they haven't been helped yet. He's almost shrill.

Now Geraldo comes on and he freaks out, begging the authorities to let people still stuck at the convention center walk out of town. Shep comes back and he says they have checkpoints set up turning people back to the city if they try. They are both on the verge of tears.

Sean says they need to get some perspective and Shep screams at him "this is the perspective!"


Jack Cafferty on Cnn

Cafferty to wolf:

Jack Cafferty: Do you suppose, Wolf, that the arrival of the relief convoys and the political photo ops on the gulf coast happening at the very same time were a coincidence today?

Wolf Blitzer: Uh, well, we'll, I'm sure our viewers have some thoughts on that as well. These pictures, by the way, Jack, that we're getting in...

Wolf Blitzer: Jack a final thought before I let you go.

Jack Cafferty: It's embarrassing [followed by dead silence]


Anderson Cooper and Soledad O'Brien as well as Paula Zahn also socked it to brown.Brown, a grade A asshole. And political hack with almost zero emergency management skills.

lsbets
09-03-2005, 05:19 PM
Hcap, from the coverage I've watched, Fox's reporters in the field have done the best job and been the most critical of the efforts. Today those guys are painting a much better picture, talking about the progress that has been made since yesterday.

JustRalph
09-03-2005, 05:28 PM
I read on another forum that the reason the air drops did not happen was because the governor refused to make a formal request until Bush promised her a 100 billion in relief money. She argued about "Federalizing her National Guard" and her losing control of "her troops" The post was from a doctor in LA government, according to the poster. I don't know if I believe it, but we may find later that a bunch of this crap was due to politicians wrangling for money. Now that would be right in line with LA tradition, wouldn't it?

hcap
09-03-2005, 05:28 PM
You know my feelings about Fox. But I was totally suprised by the guys in the field. Kudos particularly to Shep.

Well finally there's some improvement. I agree things are better today than yesterday. But the response was abyssmal. Fema blew it.

I think the failures were inexcusable. Heartbreaking.

lsbets
09-03-2005, 05:32 PM
You know my feelings about Fox. But I was totally suprised by the guys in the field. Kudos particularly to Shep.

Well finally there's some improvement. I agree things are better today than yesterday. But the response was abyssmal. Fema blew it.

I think the failures were inexcusable. Heartbreaking.

I agree with almost all of what you just said. Fox's coverage has been the best, hands down. I switch to MSNBC during O'Reilly because I've always thought he's just a blowhard, but Shep has been unreal.

And the response was abysmal. I don't think any sane human being will argue with that. But you cannot let the local authorities who are the primary drivers of taking care of their communities off the hook - they blew it big time.

And I'll agree on FEMA. Fire Brown. I watched Chertoff's press conference today - fire him too. I think Bush saying that the response was not acceptable yesterday publicly was a veiled way of saying some folks will lose their jobs when this is over.

PaceAdvantage
09-03-2005, 05:50 PM
Wait a minute. If you federalize the NG, don't they lose the power to enforce the law under the posse comitatus act? National Guard troops have to be under state control in order to carry out law enforcement against American citizens, correct?

Unless of course they don't want the NG acting as law enforcers, but given the situation, I find that hard to believe.

lsbets
09-03-2005, 05:51 PM
Exactly correct PA.

hcap
09-03-2005, 06:27 PM
Ls, It is hard not to cast blame. I purposely avoided getting entangled in the debates re: NOLA on the board, giving some time to see how things unfolded. I think my sabbatical is over. Yeah local government is not innocent either. But in a post 911 world, I think homeland security and fema are, and have to be the focus.

Your 100% right about chertoff as well. Both he and brown seem to be living in a different reality. Bush at the moment, is not as culpable. But the Truman principle-the buck stops here-will implicate him as well.

And the fact that this occured shows a lack of good judgement on bush's part

Brown, the idiot in charge - admitted he didn't know until thursday that there were 15,000 desperate, dehydrated, hungry, angry, dying victims of Katrina in the New Orleans Convention Center.

The presnit hailed him in Mobile, Ala., "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job."
Give me a break. Disconnected to say the least. Another smiley face.

JustRalph I read on another forum that the reason the air drops did not happen was because the governor refused to make a formal request until Bush promised her a 100 billion in relief moneyI think your wrong she asked for a berlin air drop, and 130 million, not billion. Your other forum is???? Sounds like a trumped up charge of blackmail. Meanwhile here is the actual request made by Blanco way back on the 28th.

http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf

Besides, if your telling me bush and fema refused to be blackmailed into air dropping food and water, and that was the reason it never happened, they blew it bigtime. The air drop should have proceeded and bush could have fought the blackmail later. He would have been a hero

ljb
09-03-2005, 06:43 PM
excellent post cap,
You wouldn't happen to have any requests from Fl. last year would you ? The feds responded rather quickly to the Fl. hurricanes. (course that was before the election hmmmm)

JustRalph
09-03-2005, 07:18 PM
Wait a minute. If you federalize the NG, don't they lose the power to enforce the law under the posse comitatus act? National Guard troops have to be under state control in order to carry out law enforcement against American citizens, correct?

Unless of course they don't want the NG acting as law enforcers, but given the situation, I find that hard to believe.

that's the way I remember it. I don't know why you would have that arguement? If I can find the post again........ I will link to it.

Secretariat
09-03-2005, 07:34 PM
excellent post cap,
You wouldn't happen to have any requests from Fl. last year would you ? The feds responded rather quickly to the Fl. hurricanes. (course that was before the election hmmmm)

Yes, I've read Brown at FEMA managed to get reimbursement for people hundreds of miles away from that storm.

I am reading something that troubles me, and that is the the Red Cross has been prohibited form entering NO to give out food and water. From their own web site.

http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html#4524

JustRalph
09-03-2005, 07:54 PM
Yes, I've read Brown at FEMA managed to get reimbursement for people hundreds of miles away from that storm.

I am reading something that troubles me, and that is the the Red Cross has been prohibited form entering NO to give out food and water. From their own web site.

http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html#4524

from the article:

The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

They ordered everybody out...........sounds like a good reason to me

Secretariat
09-03-2005, 08:09 PM
from the article:

The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

They ordered everybody out...........sounds like a good reason to me

So to keep people from evacuating and to act as a deterrrent for others to come back into the city, the Homeland Security beleives they should withhold possible life saving measures from the Red Cross and deny access to hundreds of people. A damn piss poor reason if you ask me.

I don't think any of those people are looking to come in. They'ere looking for water, food, and warm lodging. I can see keeping some people out, but the Red Cross? Can't they allow the Red Cross in and keep others out? My God.

Lefty
09-03-2005, 08:32 PM
If they'd dropped the food, water in there by air isn't it logical the thugs with guns woulda ended up with it?

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/2/111601.shtml?et=y

Secretariat
09-03-2005, 09:52 PM
If they'd dropped the food, water in there by air isn't it logical the thugs with guns woulda ended up with it?

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/2/111601.shtml?et=y

Reporters had no problems interviewing people at the Convention Center without being assaulted by thugs. I imagine if the NG had escorted the Red Cross effort to the Convention Center there would have been minimal problems, and perhaps some lives could be saved.

JustRalph
09-03-2005, 09:56 PM
So to keep people from evacuating and to act as a deterrrent for others to come back into the city, the Homeland Security beleives they should withhold possible life saving measures from the Red Cross and deny access to hundreds of people. A damn piss poor reason if you ask me.

I don't think any of those people are looking to come in. They'ere looking for water, food, and warm lodging. I can see keeping some people out, but the Red Cross? Can't they allow the Red Cross in and keep others out? My God.

Sec, you are sitting on your ass at a keyboard somewhere. There are professionals on the scene making these decisions. I will let them make those decisions.............and not second guess them from my keyboard. I suggest you consider the same profile............

lsbets
09-03-2005, 10:00 PM
Hcap, I noticed your absence in the first few days and commend you for not jumping on the any chance to bash Bush bandwagon that started almost immediatly.

And you're right, the buck does stop with him. He may have said Brown was doing a heck of a job, but you've been around long enough to know that stating the effort was not acceptable was aimed squarely at Brown. The night before that comment, I was mad as hell because I thought the feds needed to push the locals aside and it seemed like they weren't doing anything. I think (and this is just a guess, but based on the public comments and the almost immediate turnaround in the results of the relief effort) that when a historical account is put together, we'll find out that either the night before or the morning of the not acceptable comment there was a come to Jesus meeting in the WH and a lot of folks were told to get on the ball and make it happen or else.

A lot of people want to ignore how the government is legally set up to deal with disasters. The front line folks are the city and state. The federal government is there in a support role. That's the law, and it can't be tossed out the window. When you get bureacrats involved making sure every t is crossed and i is dotted, you get delays. One of the problems with the relief in Andrew was the paperwork from Florida initially never made it to the top of the chain because some idiot kicked it back for not filling out the request properly. You'd think all that would be needed for a request would be the governor getting on the phone and saying "Hey, we need help". But common sense and government do not go hand in hand.

Unfortunatly we don't know the scope of this disaster yet. Once they get into the areas where the houses roofs were underwater, my gut tells me they will find a lot of people who either drowned in their attics or died from heat stroke in the ensuing days. The official death toll in MS is around 140 or so, but the unofficial estimates are over 1,000. NO and the surrounding areas could easily come in at 5-10 thousand. Then there will be the stories of horror as the 99% of the population made up of good, honest people had to deal with the criminal element that took charge because the city refused to deal with the lawlessness in the first day after the levee broke.

lsbets
09-03-2005, 10:05 PM
Reporters had no problems interviewing people at the Convention Center without being assaulted by thugs. I imagine if the NG had escorted the Red Cross effort to the Convention Center there would have been minimal problems, and perhaps some lives could be saved.

Sec, lefty was talking about air drops, and the last I checked, the Red Cross doesn't do airborne insertions, and I doubt the LA NG has any airborne units (but they might).

Dropping pallets of food and water sounds great and sounds easy. Take it from someone who has distributed relief supplies before - unless you have a well planned and coordinated effort with security, a riot will ensue. It seems to me the best course of action would have been to drive the stuff in, with armed escorts, and have an orderly distribution. They could probably have inserted some troops by helicopter and then dropped food and water, but to simply say they should have dropped stuff without security is naive. That would have resulted in a worse disaster.

Secretariat
09-03-2005, 10:51 PM
Sec, lefty was talking about air drops, and the last I checked, the Red Cross doesn't do airborne insertions, and I doubt the LA NG has any airborne units (but they might).

Dropping pallets of food and water sounds great and sounds easy. Take it from someone who has distributed relief supplies before - unless you have a well planned and coordinated effort with security, a riot will ensue. It seems to me the best course of action would have been to drive the stuff in, with armed escorts, and have an orderly distribution. They could probably have inserted some troops by helicopter and then dropped food and water, but to simply say they should have dropped stuff without security is naive. That would have resulted in a worse disaster.

If you reread my post, it mirrors yours:

"It seems to me the best course of action would have been to drive the stuff in, with armed escorts, and have an orderly distribution." - Isbets

"I imagine if the NG had escorted the Red Cross effort to the Convention Center there would have been minimal problems, and perhaps some lives could be saved." - Sec.

Not really a lot of disagreement.

lsbets
09-03-2005, 10:56 PM
Okay, I thought you were referencing the air drops lefty talked about. SO you're right, we don't disagree (on that). ;)

Lefty
09-03-2005, 11:20 PM
sec, Geraldo said security was tight around him and he felt reasonably safe, but elsewhere throughout the convention building people were being murdered and raped.

boxcar
09-04-2005, 01:42 AM
Boxcar,
I guess since a libs' condition cannot be attributed to evolution, it seems to me you are proposing libs then were divinely created. I totally agree. I would add though, specifically to annoy loonies like yourself and throw "MONKEY" wrenches into overblown arguments proposed by same loonies.

Don't tell me, let me guess. Your rebuttal will be- maybe libs de-evolved?? Or -libs are not divinely created. But contra-divinely created by the D_A_A_R_K one. Satan?? :confused:

Just thought I would save you some typing.
And some convoluted thinking.
Vital energy that you surely need to chew gum instead.

:rolleyes:

You're the one who could have and should have saved that "vital energy" by stopping at the second sentence in your first paragrpah...and then pondered carefully and long what the term "self-made" means.

Sophistry Specialists like yourself hould exercise self-restraint and quit overreaching. You're incapable of negotiating your own cobweb-ridden attic, let alone read or predict others' thoughts.

Boxcar

hcap
09-04-2005, 09:44 AM
Originally Posted by BoxcarYou're the one who could have and should have saved that "vital energy" by stopping at the second sentence in your first paragrpah...and then pondered carefully and long what the term "self-made" means.So you do allow the possibility that libs have the same standing before god as conservatives. Very generous boxhead. My thoughts in responding that libs were divinely created were prompted by your tagline " The more Liberals try to create Heaven on Earth, the closer to Hell this Country gets.

I mean if you allow the notion that god loves all his children, not just constipated anal retentive bitter old white men, libs should be higher up on your usurped from god, biblical pronouncements and decrees.

The poor, and socially unequalized that libs tend to stand up for is missing from your tagline. After all, if libs have the same standing before god as cons, shouldn't your tag line be ammended? Or is only cons that have the TRUE version of heaven?

How'bout a more fair and balanced tag?

"The more Liberals try to create Heaven on Earth, and the more the cons try to limit heaven to a chosen few bush pioneers, the closer to Hell this Country gets."

Now where is self-made? Or could this be a tower of babble reference?

Babble on. Brother Boxcar.

btw, i am flattered that your whoop ass avatar, which seems to be a response to mine, does have a peace sign. However twisted it may be.

boxcar
09-04-2005, 07:15 PM
Originally Posted by BoxcarSo you do allow the possibility that libs have the same standing before god as conservatives. Very generous boxhead. My thoughts in responding that libs were divinely created were prompted by your tagline " The more Liberals try to create Heaven on Earth, the closer to Hell this Country gets.

I mean if you allow the notion that god loves all his children, not just constipated anal retentive bitter old white men, libs should be higher up on your usurped from god, biblical pronouncements and decrees.

You ignorance of the one true God -- the God who has gracously revealed himself in the bible to mankind -- is truly remarkable. Your premise is all wrong, sir, for not all men have the same standing before God because if we did all us would either be condemned or all of us would be saved. This is so because salvation is portrayed in the bible as a miraculous act of God. And the same bible teaches that most men will die in their sins and be condemned, but that many would be forgiven and saved.

Now certainly your foolish notion that all men have the same standing before God has its roots in your belief that "SOMETHING" bigger than you exists out there. But of course you don't have the first clue as to what or who this Unknown god is or just how much bigger than you he really is. Therefore, permit to give you a little clue on just how big he is:

Rom 8:27-30
7 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren; 30 and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
NASB

A few things:

1. The Holy Spirit only interecedes for the saints (the "elect").

2. God works all things for the good of those who love him. And the only people who truly love God are his chosen ones.

The verse 29 begins to layout the logical order of God's complete salvation plan -- beginning with him "foreknowing" certain people to the consumation of his plan when the saints will be "glorified" (i.e. when the saints will be resurrected on the Last Day with their new bodies). Many within the church willingly misinterpret this passage in order to try to mitigate its force. They do this by saying that God's predestines those who he sees in his cosmic crystal ball accepting his offer of salvation. This is pure nonsense. For such an interpretation does not square at all with what the rest of scripture teaches about this particular subject, with the attributes of God, or with the meaning of the Greek terms involved in this passage.

For example, since God is omniscient (all knowing), and always existed (eternal), then we must conclude that the term "foreknew" is being used anthromporphically in order to accomodate our finite understanding. God transcends Time (an aspect of his creation) and he knows all things instantaneously. God never has to peer into some cosmic crystal ball to find out what is going to happen. In fact, nothing happens that God hans't decreed in "eternity past".

The Greek term that is used in this text means more than a mere intellectual or casual knowledge. The term most clearly means a deep personal and intimate knowledge, and the word (without the prefix) is frequently rendered "know" or "knew" in the KJV in the context of a man "knowing" his wife, for example. So what this text is clearly teaching is that those whom God knew intimately and personally in eternity past, he predestined to be saved. The text does not speak of God foreknowing any particular actions of men (e.g. men repenting of thier sins, exercising faith, etc.)

If you still doubt that not all men have equal standing before God, then consider this:

Rom 9:6-13
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7 neither are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but: "through Isaac your descendants will be named." 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. 9 For this is a word of promise: "At this time I will come, and Sarah shall have a son." 10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11 for though the twins were not yet born, and had not done anything good or bad, in order that God's purpose according to His choice might stand, not because of works, but because of Him who calls, 12 it was said to her, "The older will serve the younger." 13 Just as it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated ."
NASB

Notice carefully that Isaac was one of God's elect, for he was chosen by God in eternity past -- long before either of the twins actually did anything "good or bad". This text validates my interpretation of the earlier one.

Oh...but do I hear you object to God's sovereign choices? Of course I do. The apostle anticipated the objection of the unregenerate, spiritually darkened mind, for he continued with:

Rom 9:14-19
14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15 For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth." 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? 21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use, and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so in order that He might make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.
NASB

You see, 'cap, there's no injustice with God; for God is not obligated to save anyone. If God was obligated to direct his saving grace toward anyone, then grace would cease to be grace -- by mere definition of the term. Those who he saves he does so solely on the basis of his sovereign grace (i.e. unmerited, undeserved, unrequited favor) bestowed in eternity past upon his elect. Divine Justice only demands that God recompense to every man according to his deeds. And since all mankind is in open rebellion against God, he simply allows such to remain in that state while alive and to ultimately die in that spiritual condition.

Divine justice also demands that the sins of the elect be recompensed. And indeed those sins were paid for through the person, perfect life and redemptive work of the Second Person of the Godhead. Christ paid the penalty for the sins of his people through his sacrificial death on the cross. Christ bore his Father's wrath in his body on behalf of all those sinners who the Father gave to the Son in eternity past. Therefore, as the apostle proclaimed, "there is no injustice with God".

Now you are without excuse Mr. 'Cap, for you can never say that no one ever gave you the straight skinny about man's standing before God.

Boxcar

JustRalph
09-04-2005, 07:53 PM
Hey Box, I am gonna have to run that by Morgan Freeman before I comment

ljb
09-04-2005, 10:25 PM
excellent post cap,
You wouldn't happen to have any requests from Fl. last year would you ? The feds responded rather quickly to the Fl. hurricanes. (course that was before the election hmmmm)
This is an interesting snippet from St. Petersburg times. August 17, 2004 I think.
Gov. Jeb Bush sought federal help Friday while Charley was still in the Gulf of Mexico. President Bush approved the aid about an hour after the hurricane made landfall.

By Monday afternoon, the cavalry seemed to be in place.

There were a few trouble spots in the stifling heat. Orlando officials want more help, and it wasn't clear if water and ice were getting to everyone who needed it most. But rescue teams, insurance adjusters and National Guard troops are moving quickly into the hardest-hit counties.

The governor will return to Central Florida today, and state agencies have established mobile units to help with everything from child care to unemployment compensation.

"You need to have a quick response in beginning," Gov. Bush said Monday.

lsbets
09-04-2005, 10:39 PM
Sounds like Fla did the same thing MS did with this one - they positioned the NG to move in as soon as the storm was over.

PaceAdvantage
09-05-2005, 12:14 AM
Bush Declares State of Emergency

Sunday, August 28, 2005

http://www.foxnews.com/images/service_ap_36.gif

CRAWFORD, Texas President Bush declared a state of emergency in Louisiana (search (http://javascript<b></b>:siteSearch('Louisiana');)) on Saturday because of the approach of Hurricane Katrina (search (http://javascript<b></b>:siteSearch('Hurricane%20Katrina');)) and his spokesman urged residents along the coast to heed authorities' advice to evacuate.

Bush, vacationing at his ranch, was being regularly updated about the storm, which is expected to hit land early Monday, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.

Officials from the Federal Emergency Management Agency (search (http://javascript<b></b>:siteSearch('Federal%20Emergency%20Management%20Ag ency');)) continue to coordinate with state authorities in Florida, Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama, and have prepositioned supplies in areas expected to be affected, he said.

Click here to track Hurricane Katrina (http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_at2+shtml/083750.shtml?3day)

The president's emergency declaration authorizes the FEMA to coordinate all disaster relief efforts and to provide appropriate assistance in a number of Louisiana parishes, or counties.

Authorities told residents of low-lying coastal communities to head for higher ground. The storm was expected to strengthen as it crosses the Gulf of Mexico and could become a Category 4 hurricane with wind of at least 131 mph.

"We urge residents in the areas that could be impacted to follow the recommendations of local authorities," McClellan said.


Follow the recommendations of local authorities. Yup, I guess the Bush administration did screw up. That was TERRIBLE advice.....

Tom
09-05-2005, 12:17 AM
Yes, and he was has been over the area twice by plane, on the ground once, and going back Tuesday.

How often has Teddy K been there?

Bush cut short his stay in Texas to get back and go to work on getting aid together. The Black Caucus got back a day later and then called a press converence to call this all racism. the speaker of the house coulnd get back foa vote on aid because he was at a fund raiser.

Throughout this week, Bush is the only one who appears to know what he is doing.

Lefty
09-05-2005, 12:21 AM
Here's a nice article by Christopher Ruddy.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/9/4/151327.shtml

hcap
09-05-2005, 05:04 AM
JR,

Morgan Freeman?

Please enlighten before I am struck down by lightning bolts.
Oh wait it's Labour day. Maybe death takes a holiday?
btw the Frederic March version was the best.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

lsbets
09-05-2005, 09:28 AM
Morgan Freeman was a reference to his role in Bruce Almighty - great movie.

Tor Ekman
09-05-2005, 09:37 AM
How often has Teddy K been there?


Teddy K has an aversion to water (unless it's mixed with scotch, of course), especially so when running alongside low lying roadways.

Tom
09-05-2005, 12:12 PM
:lol:

hcap
09-05-2005, 01:51 PM
BoxheadYou ignorance of the one true God -- the God who has gracously revealed himself in the bible to mankind -- is truly remarkable. Your premise is all wrong, sir, for not all men have the same standing before God because if we did all us would either be condemned or all of us would be saved.

So all libs are condemmed and all cons are to be saved? What about libertarians, independents or middle of the road folks? Does god even care about one's political beliefs? And the telling question of course is how can you even know how god feels about political parties?

"The more Liberals try to create Heaven on Earth, and the more the cons try to limit heaven to a chosen few bush pioneers, the closer to Hell this Country gets."--a fair and balanced tag

boxcar
09-05-2005, 02:36 PM
Boxhead

So all libs are condemmed and all cons are to be saved? What about libertarians, independents or middle of the road folks? Does god even care about one's political beliefs? And the telling question of course is how can you even know how god feels about political parties?

Excuse me? By what superhuman leaps of logic have you concluded that "all libs are condemned and all cons are to be saved"? I certainly didn't insert politics into the post wherein I corrected your self-induced ignorance about man's standing before God. You just can't resist politicizing everything, can you?

Boxcar

ljb
09-05-2005, 04:33 PM
Damn Hcap,
Now you've got Boxhead spouting the bible again. I don't have time to scroll down through all his "selected" quotes. Shut him down. :bang:

hcap
09-05-2005, 04:43 PM
Duh,

BoxExcuse me? By what superhuman leaps of logic have you concluded that "all libs are condemned and all cons are to be saved"? I certainly didn't insert politics into the post wherein I corrected your self-induced ignorance about man's standing before God. You just can't resist politicizing everything, can you?" The more Liberals try to create Heaven on Earth, the closer to Hell this Country gets."

Every post refers to libs and god. Every post implies libs are inferior before god. And knowing you, this is not stetching. After all you pretty much are willing to consider god takes care of errant tenants by means of extreme eviction.

Now, I really don't care what you chose as your tag, but you do go out of your way to be holier than thou even here in your tag. You may argue it's only a joke, and it surely is, but I don't believe "accidental" procesees in this case, inserted this denigrating quip by ramdom selection. :D

I really think you should use my alternative--a fair and balanced tag

"The more Liberals try to create Heaven on Earth, and the more the cons try to limit heaven to a chosen few bush pioneers, the closer to Hell this Country gets."

Ljb,

I know, I know. Once he starts all heaven and hell breaks loose.
But it's kinda refreshing to know he hasn't lost his touch.

And he can't resist.
Sometimes neither can I.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

hcap
09-05-2005, 05:05 PM
And correct me if I'm wrong, but it does appear you are re-telling the tower of babble story in your tag.

C'mon no need to be humble, indeed when has that ever prevented you from educating the ignorant?

:D :D

lsbets
09-05-2005, 05:07 PM
I thought PA was going to set up a seperate area for the Boxcar VS. Hcap and Equineer Bible arguments. Can we revive that idea? ;)

boxcar
09-05-2005, 06:38 PM
hcap wrote:

Box" The more Liberals try to create Heaven on Earth, the closer to Hell this Country gets."

Every post refers to libs and god. Every post implies libs are inferior before god. And knowing you, this is not stetching. After all you pretty much are willing to consider god takes care of errant tenants by means of [I]extreme eviction.

The post in question didn't, since you supposedly wanted to know about "man's standing" before God. Or maybe I was wrong: Maybe you wanted to try to drag me into the quaqmire of that quicksand that resides between your ears in an attempt to get me to polticize the bible.

First, I won't do that because the bible itself is silent, specifically, on God's "political preferences". And this is no wonder since elsewhere in the scriptures, it is written that God is no respecter of persons (cf. Acts 10:34; Rom 2:11; Eph 6:9; Col 3:25; Jas 2:1; 1Pet 1:17). In the context of these texts, it apparent that God cares not a whit about whether a person is a Jew or Gentile, about race, about ethinicity, about social standing, etc. Since God is above all these things, then I have to think that, likewise, he's above politics. So much for your silly notion that "libs are inferior before god". A notion which you have erroneously inferred from my posts, I might add. (May I suggest that your imagination needs a strong sedative?)

But for the record what is markedly and decidedly inferior is Liberalism compared to Conservatism. Liberal Ideology is a cancer that is slowly eating away at the moral fabric of our nation. It is responsible for the current Culture War in which we find ourseves. Liberalism is a pernicious disease of the mind that inhibits minds from operating in a rational, logical and cogent manner. (This is probably accounts for why liberals tend to supplant mental processes that should be assigned to the mind to the emotions instead.)

Finally, I see that you have taken particular umbrage to my tagline. You were quite right in essentially saying that that tagline was not a result of "random selection". But you are dead wrong in that it is only a "joke". Sadly, I was a serious as a heart attack when I wrote it.

You see, the majority of Liberals seem to worship at the feet of Man -- more specifically at the feet of Man-made Government. The object of most Liberals' faith seems to be Government. And they think that our man-created, man-instituted government is capable of "saving" our nation. Big Government is this nation's "savior". Big Government is going to lead us (and possibly rest of the world) into some Goden Age -- into an Utopian Age where we will eventually conquer all the ills that plague mankind, i.e. diseases, poverty, culture differences, etc., etc. But...as a Christian, I know better. There will be no Heaven on this Earth -- not in this age --not as a result of any man-created government. Therefore, my tagline accentuates, if you will, the incomprenisbile depth of man's self-deception -- particularly of those who subscribe to Liberalism.

So, why am I a "conservative"? I am what I am because of my biblical worldview. Conservatism squares a whole lot better with explicit biblical teachings and with biblical principles than does Liberalism. As a Conservative (speaking strictly from a poltical ideology), all I hope to do is slow down the hell-bent rush of all other poltical ideologies that are born domesticaly or abroad.

I hope I have cleared up your confusion.

Boxcar

Tom
08-27-2011, 12:15 PM
I agree this is not the time for finger pointing, but when Bush gets on TV today and says "No one could have anticipated the levees would break."...well, he's just flat out wrong, and is either lying to the public, or is just ignorant. When he decides to go to a golf course to give a speech on medicare the day before the hurricane strikes...you have got to wonder about his priorities. There certainly was enough knowledge in advance.

But I'll restrain my anger and pray for those folks in NO. I've sent in my Red Cross donation and I hope these poor people get the help they need. THe pictures of people with no water in the middle of hot and miggy NO is too much to bear.

Could have been worse, Sec, he could have given a speech from Martha's Vineyard.

rastajenk
08-27-2011, 02:23 PM
Can't believe that was six years ago.

The names have changed a little bit, but the sniping hasn't at all. :p

Tom
08-27-2011, 05:19 PM
Bobby Goern wanted to see some of the crap that used to go one...