Different Offshore Racebooks -- Pluses and Minuses

[trying2win]

I know quite a few PA members rave about Pinnacle and their 7% rebate.
Pinnacle does have a number of pluses on their site, but they also have a few minuses from my perspective. Same goes for every other offshore racebook I've studied, either racebook reviews or offshore racebook FAQs on their own websites.

1. Some offshore racebooks have positives like:

--Generous sign-up bonuses
--Very good, down to fair rebate percentages
--Alternate phone betting with no high minimum wager requirement
--Prompt customer service by toll free number or email
--Extensive selection of tracks...thoroughbred and harness, that covers
every racing day of a track's weekly schedule
--Ease-of-use of online betting page
--Payment of full track odds on straight wagers
--Higher-than-average payoff limits on gimmick bets
--General absence of service charges for either deposits or withdrawals
--I even found one offshore racebook that was unusual, in that it
offers wagering on minor Canadian thoroughbred tracks like Northlands
Park. I believe this same site offers wagering on Hastings Park and
Assiniboia Downs as well.

2. Some offshore racebooks have negatives like:

--No rebates at all
--Some just give rebates on money lost over a certain period of time, like a
week etc.
--Alternate phone betting with high mininum wager amount
--Some sites are very slow in replying to email questions.
--Some have a small selection of thoroughbred tracks only.
--Some have an extensive selection of thoroughbred tracks, but very few harness tracks.
--Some sites are misleading, in that they give a track list with a large number of racetracks. However, on another part of their website, their 'Tracks Offered' section lists a reduced number of racetracks available for wagering.
--Very limited payoff limits on straight and/or gimmick wagers.
--Nickle-and-dime the customer with service charges on deposits and withdrawals.


For my betting preferences, I find it handy to have more than one online betting company to place my wagers with. I use one Canadian betting company and two different offshore racebooks.

How about other PA members?. Got any comments?

Thanks,

T2W

[Fwizard]

I use pinnacle as I like the rebates and the ease of the site , but of course they do have negatives like only communicating by email and not a phone number. Also we sending money thru neteller via instacash they hit you up for a 5% fee. But, since they give 7% I overlook that. I also use ehorse where I can send money with no fees but the rebates are less.

The one word of caution I use when it comes to off-shore betting with either horses or sports is if they are offering too much like "50% sign up bonus" stay away from them, normally to get money back out you will have to perform magic tricks for them...the good books don't have to do that!!!!

[Rook]

It's a good topic Trying2Win but your posting would have been far more informative if you actually named the books you were talking about.

Here is my ranking of the wagering services I have dealt with over the years from best to worst:

Pinnacle: Clearly the best for the vast majority of people: + good rebates + good selection of tracks and wagers + better than average payoff limits for an offshore + prompt payments and corrections - worrisome trend of wagering limits getting smaller every few months - match and then exceed bets of winning customers

Ehorse: + good platform + advance wagering + payoff limits better than most - no superfectas - rebates less than Pinnacle

Betinternet: + Good selection of very small tracks + money into the pool so no payoff limits - 0% rebate

Caribsports: + trustworthy book + excellent selection of tracks - payoff limits worse than Pinnacle and ehorse - rebates less than Pinnacle

HPIBet (Woodbine): + is safer than an offshore - lame rewards program -crappy selection of tracks - puny pools - can't bet more than an hour before first race - unstable - very high takeouts - virtually no video - incompetent customer service that can literally take months to resolve problems

FiveDimes: - pathetic payoff limits - lie about what tracks they offer

AcesGold: --- stole $14,000 from me and millions in total :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Lou G]

By what method can you deposit to ehorse with no fees (other than a Visa card, which I don't have)? I've been with ehorse for ten years and am still running on my initial deposit so I haven't tanked yet but recently my game has improved a bit and I wanted to add to my account to support larger bets. I've looked at their banking options and didn't see any without fees. Actually considered switching to Brisbet or Youbet because they accept personal checks. Giving up points before you even begin to bet comes right off your roi and this game is tough enough anyway...

Thanks,
Lou G

[Fwizard]

Lou,

If you use Neteller Instacash the money comes straight out of a checking account. Pinnacle will charge you 5%. Ehorse is free.

Frank

[trying2win]

Rook, you raised some good points, thanks. I currently use HPI, PINNACLE and TC BETS.

--PINNACLE offers the 7% rebate. That certainly is a plus. PINNACLE offers mainly thoroughbred tracks, but I also like playing harness tracks, and Pinnacle only offers a limited omount of harness tracks. Another plus for PINNACLE, is that they don't charge a service fee for using NET TELLER to fund an account. Since I'm a Canadian, I like the fact that PINNACLE lets me have the option of making bets in Canadian currency.

--TC BETS on the plus side, offers an extensive list of thoroughbred and harness tracks. I like their betting page. You can put different amounts to win and place for example on one page, without having to enter the bets separately on another page. Some minuses, TC BETS charges a fee for using NET TELLER and their rebates are on the low side. For my betting, I get 2%.

--HPI lets me wager on many different tracks in Canada. On the minus side, HPI doesn't always cover the entire week of some track's racing schedule. Example...they cover Flamboro Downs every day except Saturdays lately. I wager through TC BETS for Flamboro's Saturday cards. Another minus, their bonus points I believe, only add up to about 1/2 % for every dollar bet. Another minus, they don't have a record of your wagers from previous days on their website, like some offshore racebooks do.

--SBG GLOBAL takes bets on minor Canadian thoroughbred tracks, but they have a limit on the odds they'll payoff on straight wagers, and their payoff limits on gimmick bets seem kind of small (unless they made a typo).

--I haven't bet at EHORSE for awhile, but they put $30.00 U.S. in my betting account as a bonus before Christmas last year. That was an unexpected pleasant surprise. I haven't had any other betting company do that kind of generous thing. They also never charged any service fees for using a credit card in the past.

--I once used to have an account at EBET USA.COM, before they booted me off for being a Canadian after awhile. They had too many minuses, like not carry some track's full weekly racing schedule, and high charges for using a credit card for deposits.

T2W

[osophy_junkie]

Pinnacle will cover the fee for a western union transfer over $1000.

[Red Knave]

HPIBet (Woodbine): + is safer than an offshore - lame rewards program -crappy selection of tracks - puny pools - can't bet more than an hour before first race - unstable - very high takeouts - virtually no video - incompetent customer service that can literally take months to resolve problems

Don't sugarcoat it Rook.
Tell us how you feel! ;)

[fmhealth]

Mr Win, I'm very glad that you started this thread. I have a concern that has prevented me from "betting on my computer". That is, I think I'll overbet. Plain & simple. With the temptation so close at hand, the "barrier to entry" as we used to say in the business world is virtually zero!!

So, a rebate of any type sounds compelling. BUT, do you & others on this board tend to bet more often simply because it's so easy to do? This, at least in my case, would lead to more action, ensuring more losses & totally negating any "convenience" benefit.

Bottom line for me is that AP is 12 miles away. Make the 24 mile R/T 3-4 times a week. This distance puts some type of "governor" on my betting. Would like to bet from home, but ultimately I believe it would be detrimental to my already negative ROI.

Disipline is the key to success in any venture. I guess I don't have enough of it in this particular case....

[joeyspicks]

dont get ripped off again... check this site BEFORE sending any money

http://www.sportsbookreview.com/default.aspx

has a racebookreview too (but not as good)

[lurker]

The best deal in offshores right now is the $125 free offer from TCBets.com. Deposit $125 get $125 free. If you are a small bettor this is a great deal. Racebookreview.com is a good resource for comparing racebooks.

[Rook]

TCBets is ok for WPS betting but for tris, pick3s and pick 4s it blows great big chunks. They have a 300 to 1 limit. Let's see, in last night's EVD card a bettor would have been screwed in 7 out of 10 races. Pretty hard to take a book seriously with those payoff caps.

[Fat Ira]

Hello from a new member. I've been reading and learning for some time
now... ( lurking ? ) Seems to be a active group with a lot of good input and
civil discussion. I've seen some that are very hostile and others that discuss everything but horseracing.
Bumped this one back up, hoping to get some more input. Thinking about opening an account with VIP,as their payoff limits for exacta and tri's seem to be higher than Pinnacle or eHorse. I'm a casual (and new) player,who will be moving to one of those states where gambling is "frowned" upon, so the off-shore guys will be my only option.

Any thoughts, suggestions or experiences would be appreciated.

Thanks and good luck !
" Ira "

[Rook]

VIP's rebates are a total scam. Their 15% is on net losses instead of total amount wagered. So, say Joe Horseplayer bets $10,000 in a month and loses $1,000, with Pinnacle he gets $700 back. With VIP, he gets $150. And VIP's maximum payouts on Superfectas are also a joke. Countless times each week, supers pay more than $1500.

[EQUIPACE]

My story with off shore betting:
In 2002 I nailed War Emblem to win in the Kentucky Derby and made a tidy butt load of $... So What Right? My account was with (Philly Park) Phone Bet... Getting my wager in was a nightmare and extremely frustrating. So I decided to open an account with EHORSE. When the Preakness came around, I was again on War Emblem like white on rice, except I played the Trifecta and decided to throw in Magic Weisner along with several others in the in the last few minutes before I left for a wedding that day. (Early Wagering)

While at the wedding, someone came outside and said that War Emblem had won... Again so what... His odds were not going to make me $ like he did in the derby... He was the favorite that day and for me clearly the best of the field. So I asked who came in second and the person I was talking to said it was Menacing Dennis ... No good... I just chalked it up as a losing wager and proceeded to have fun at the wedding.

When I got home, I logged on and found out that Magic Weisner at 45-1 had actually placed and Proud Citizen at over 7-1 showed. The payout for the $1 Tri was $1115.50. I was in heaven... So I thought! I then logged on to my account at EHORSE only to find they had added only $600.00 to my account... The cap for Tri wagering. (600 to 1). I called them and the poor guy I spoke with had a new A-Hole by the time I was finished. But the fact was I never thought about not getting track odds and pay outs with a 600-1 cap. I was livid!

I just cant justify playing off shore wagers with payout caps since this happened. Rebates or not... I dont see the benefits...
I guess I could understand the benefits playing 1000's per week and getting the rebates and swag, but for most people like myself. I dont see it.

I'll just bet right here in the good old US of A while keeping it honest and fair with uncle sam and still get the best benefit... track payouts.

John
~¿o

[Rook]

Justin,

I hear where you are coming from with regards to payoff limits. You can get completely ripped off if you deal with the wrong company or get careless with bet size.

However, I can't agree with your willingness to accept the status quo with racetracks. If they don't pay a decent rebate, they don't deserve our business.

There are a bunch of us on this board who are or who are aspiring to make a living at betting. Without rebates it is far, far more difficult. For 8 long years ('88 thru '95) I struggled long and hard at it, with a ROI that hovered right around the break even point. If I had received the rebates that I get right now, I never would have needed to get a job out of university.

When I finally did get a nice bankroll after hitting a few big tris in June of '95, I was so burned out from years of grinding out a profit, that I turned to the stock market and sports betting as easier ways of making money. Racing industry's stupidity drove me away from a sport I loved because they made me work like a maniac to come out ahead.

Nine years later, I was finally refreshed enough to give it another go and thanks to rebates, I knew I had a good chance to come out ahead as long as the competition hadn't gotten that much better. (It had but there are still inefficiencies on a regular basis).

I no longer deal with Pinnacle, but I have to give them credit for a business model that lets the horseplayer have a fighting chance at acheiving his profit goals. The other offshores don't and certainly the racetracks don't with their pathetic incentives of T-shirts and mugs.

[Fat Ira]

Rook / Equipace

Thanks for posting your thoughts and experiences.:ThmbUp:

Rook...I am more of a casual player looking for a place to wager,mostly on the bigger races. Now I run over to Monmouth, next year that won't be an option. I can understand how the rebates really help with someone who is making their living with horseracing, my wagers are much smaller.

Equipace...The payoffs at VIP on exactas & Tri's are 375 /1 and 750 /1....better than other offshores that I've seen. They seem to have good ratings from the "sportsbookreview" mentioned in this thread. I have tried to open accounts with US based companys ( Amer.Tab, YouBet, TVG & others ), who I would trust more, but they do not accept accounts from North Carolina :mad:

On the off chance I hit a $750 exacta or a $1500 Tri I like their payouts better. Wish I could keep it stateside but that does not seem to be possible.

Thanks again for the input
"Ira"

[Topcat]

....
I no longer deal with Pinnacle, but I have to give them credit for a business model that lets the horseplayer have a fighting chance at acheiving his profit goals. The other offshores don't and certainly the racetracks don't with their pathetic incentives of T-shirts and mugs.

Rook is right on the money: pathetic T-shirts and mugs! ROFLOL

Somehow the idea of tracks earning their customers dollars or being competitive for wagering dollars just hasn't sunk in. Years ago I interviewed for a job with Santa Anita Race track and they wanted to make sure I wasn't a bettor and did I have experience with T-shirt promotions?-that is all they talked about.


On more postive note here is a link to a site that offers legal "on-shore" rebates of up to 11% at select tracks. The catch is that the tracks may not major tracks nor be your favorites and they only accept wagers from certain states (sorry no CA or NV), but they do take others. Hmm , it doesn't look like they are doing any favors ( AKA favours) for our Canadian friends.

http://www.ponyupbet.com/index.asp


Well since it looks like they take bets from MN our Canadian friends ought to be able to work a deal with those folks coming up from Minnesota for prescription drugs-for every prescription they should be entitled to an address in International Falls, MN complete with forwarding to Canada. Now there's a prescription plan. <G>

If anyone knows of any other on-shore services liek this one I am defintiely interested