Trainer stats question

[takeout]

Does anyone know if a simple program exists that keeps track of just basic trainer stats like all starts & finish positions, win percentage, flat bet profit by meet, etc?

Barring that, does Equibase or any of its re-sellers produce such a product?

Seems like such basic stuff but I have yet to find it anywhere. I see pieces of it everywhere (PPs, track programs, EQ site) but never the whole package. I’m not talking about specific stats like first time starters and such, just detailed generic stats.

[cato]

Have you checked out the trainer stats that YouBet offers on every race? Both generic and more detailed.

Cato

[Charlie Judge]

HDW reports trainer generic and specific stats in their reports. These are also available in my coma delimited data file using the HDW data.

caj

[turfbar]

Does anyone know if a simple program exists that keeps track of just basic trainer stats like all starts & finish positions, win percentage, flat bet profit by meet, etc?

Barring that, does Equibase or any of its re-sellers produce such a product?

Seems like such basic stuff but I have yet to find it anywhere. I see pieces of it everywhere (PPs, track programs, EQ site) but never the whole package. I’m not talking about specific stats like first time starters and such, just detailed generic stats.

Hey check out EdBain.com

[laff]

I'm interested in these trainer stats. Question. Are the stats broken down for the last 365 days only? I am looking for stats that can be broken down for the last year, month, 2 weeks, etc. Looking for trends.

[takeout]

Thanks for the replies. As impressive as a lot of this stuff is (and it IS impressive) it’s a lot more high end than I’m looking for. I’ll keep “smoking it over” though.

[ceejay]

2 ideas, takeout:
1. DRF Formulator 4 can be manipulated to do this. For example cross "last 90 days" and Saratoga.
2. Check out www.turfday.com. He provides the data that Cato refered to @ youbet.

[takeout]

I'm interested in these trainer stats. Question. Are the stats broken down for the last 365 days only? I am looking for stats that can be broken down for the last year, month, 2 weeks, etc. Looking for trends.
That’s one of the problems I’m having. I can’t find them broken out by meeting. I should’ve known that it might be a problem as the PPs I’ve seen don’t have them by meeting either. I’ve noticed at the tracks that race all year that no distinction is made as to the different meetings. The PPs just treat the year as one meeting instead of four. Basically I’m just looking for the flat bet profit guys per meeting as a starting point.

[takeout]

2 ideas, takeout:
1. DRF Formulator 4 can be manipulated to do this. For example cross "last 90 days" and Saratoga.
2. Check out www.turfday.com. He provides the data that Cato refered to @ youbet.
It’s been a long time since I played with Formulator. What exactly would that produce?

The Turfday demo is pretty amazing.

Ironically I already have a fair amount of detailed stuff at my disposal via a non-commercial program. I was basically just looking for a quick and dirty way to separate the also rans from the ones that I want to spend time on as I still do a lot of stuff by hand.

[hurrikane]

take-o

coming soon...emal me in the interim as to what you are looking for.

[laff]

I agree with you. That's what I'm trying to find out. Track specific, at the CURRENT meet. A few years ago Jeff Goldstein did jockey/trainer profiles that were really a lot of help to California players. They were really good stats. Jim Mazur does "track specific" profiles for the major circuits, and while they are very good, his stats are taken from previous year/years. I have seen stats for the last 365 days on some sites, but I would like a "two week" trend. Youbet does have stats for "hot or cold" last 30 days, but they are pretty generic. I guess I'm looking for the same information as Takeout.

[hurrikane]

so, the obvious queston

how much would you pay for this information?

[Tom]

I would gladly pay you for the paper and ink you use, and heck, I'd even throw in a couple bucks for your trouble! :jump:

[laff]

Get em Tom!

[laff]

That's a fair question. Goldstein charged a fair amount for his information. Please don't ask how much, it was a while back. But if I could get info for trainer/jockey profiles that included 6 months, month, last two weeks, I would pay a fair sum. Goldstein did include roi, win/place percentages. So the answer Hurrikane, if you do that data, I would pay you what you think it is worth.

[takeout]

I just downloaded a Track Stats book for ten bucks that has a ton of info in it. It covers 15 months. It has a lot of nice stuff including some clever formatting and is certainly reasonably priced. Same problem though, it doesn’t break the stats out by meeting. I find it odd that no one packages them by meeting.

[Turfday]

If you think trainer stats from the "last two weeks" are at all meaningful, I do believe the so-called "trends" you seek are meaningless.

First of all, in a typical span of 10 racing days (two weeks), how many horses would a trainer that has a relatively big stable actually enter?

One a day?

I think we ALL have to realize, which most of us fail to, is that most all of this, in regards to so-called "hot and cold trends" can largely be attributed to a FACTOR OF THE CONDITION book and in some cases WEATHER.

There are some condition books that may very well favor a given trainer's stock and others that don't. Moreover, unbeknownst to most, even races that are scheduled in the condition book DON'T GO (due to lack of entries) and a sub race (in racing parlance called an "extra") is put on by the racing secretary.

Moreover, back east, where rain or bad weather is more prevalent, many races scheduled for the turf are taken off and moved to dirt. Often, this decimates the field size and some trainers win races by "default" just for this reason. Their horses would have LOST if the race was kept on turf, but perhaps they WON because they remained in the race and beat a five-horse field, instead of losing to a 10 or 11-horse field if the race stayed on grass.

Not only that, there are many important SHORT TERM race meets in the U.S. Saratoga, Keeneland, Del Mar, etc.

What happens if a trainer was pointing a horse for a race in the final week at Saratoga or Del Mar and the race DOESN'T GO? It doesn't fill or rain takes the race off the grass. He waits until the next meet and runs that same horse he wanted to run at Saratoga (or Del Mar). The horse wins.

The win gets credited to the new race meet. But in reality, the trainer wanted to run the horse a couple of weeks prior.

I hope all of you can see my point here. If you are interested in using trainer stats, you need to take into consideration field size, closing odds and finish position...and include in your formula "what have you done for me lately is more important than what have you done for me in the past." And most importantly, you need an adequate sample size (I use 30).

And you have to look at the WHOLE, BROAD picture and not just what happened in the last two weeks (see above).

[laff]

Actually, I find a two week trend very helpful. As Goldstein said, it's what is becoming hot right now. To talk about meet "specifics" trainers DO gear up for a specific meet. I understand about rain and the rest, but I'm really not concerned about that in California. There's trainers up here in NorCal that have small barns and play for a meet. Or they might get hot short term with first time out at the meet. Or they have a "favorite" jockey that they might use. I understand your point Turfday, but I'm not talking weather here. I'm just looking for some stats like Goldstein put out. They were unique and they were very good. I can't find anybody, including www.turfday.com (http://www.turfday.com) that has those figures. I would gladly pay for them.

[Turfday]

We have had them since Feb. 1, 2004.

[laff]

Do you have a sample or do I have to subscribe. I went there to your site, but I couldn't log on? Be interested though.

[Houndog]

Jim Mazur also has meet specific trainer stats.

[Houndog]

I have to apologize to Laff for not reading all the posts in the thread. I to used to subscribe to Goldstein's newsletter. Probably the Mazur material is not what you are looking for. I do not know if something similar to Goldstein's newsletter exists.