PDA

View Full Version : What if they didn't time the races?


nobeyerspls
08-12-2005, 08:14 AM
Could you handicap if they didn't time the races? Think of it. No speed or pace figures just the running lines with comments.
You would be forced to build your plays around surface, condition suitability, running style, class, and relevancy. Since I handicap that way now I wouldn't miss the time of the race at all. Of course, as a guy who bets a lot of maiden races, I would need someway to know how well a horse was working in the morning. Maybe comments like "on the bit" of "finished well" would suffice.
Your thoughts?

osophy_junkie
08-12-2005, 08:21 AM
I'd start selling times.

Dave Schwartz
08-12-2005, 10:27 AM
NoBeyer,

Great post. Makes you think.

Specifically, makes me think of Barry Burkann's Power Pace. Basically, he used a numeric class designation as the speed number and built the horses' ratings from the lengths behind that number.

It was very ingenious.

We still use it within our software.

Regards,
Dave Schwartz

nobeyerspls
08-12-2005, 11:31 AM
I know that those that rely on time, or speed ratings derived from it, get involved with tenths of seconds. Now that we have head-on replays showing horses slammed at the gate or being forced wide, I doubt the value of trying to be so precise. Sort of like the first timed races before they used a starting gate. When did the clock start? Did they all start running when the rope was dropped?
I do like horses coming out of fast races but I don't let time steer me away from more important factors.

kenwoodallpromos
08-12-2005, 12:52 PM
I would bet a lot more longshots because many more people would bet based more on the last race. And people would develop a list of horse ratings based on extensive head-to-head racing (key races?).

cnollfan
08-12-2005, 01:18 PM
I pay little or no attention to time when I handicap turf races.

sevenall
08-12-2005, 04:04 PM
Is there a time component contained within the Timeform Ratings in Britian?

Valuist
08-12-2005, 07:02 PM
I would definitely still play the game. In turf races, I rarely look at the times anyways, preferring to look at the charts and how the race is "gapped out". Key races would also take on even greater significance. I think anyone who bets on races in Europe pays little or no attention to times.

Vegas711
08-12-2005, 07:14 PM
I would QUIT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tholl
08-12-2005, 07:48 PM
Could you handicap if they didn't time the races? Think of it. No speed or pace figures just the running lines with comments.
You would be forced to build your plays around surface, condition suitability, running style, class, and relevancy. Since I handicap that way now I wouldn't miss the time of the race at all. Of course, as a guy who bets a lot of maiden races, I would need someway to know how well a horse was working in the morning. Maybe comments like "on the bit" of "finished well" would suffice.
Your thoughts?

I grew up in England where time means absolutely nothing on the turf. Came to America for good twenty years ago and have never paid much attention to times . I consider myself a successful handicapper, but only on turf and maidens filled with lightly races types. The reason I've never been much of a dirt race capper is my lack of understanding of times and figures.

Zaf
08-12-2005, 08:27 PM
I would buy a stopwatch :jump:

ZAFONIC

ryesteve
08-12-2005, 08:53 PM
I'd probably end up betting a lot more football games...

Tom
08-12-2005, 11:04 PM
I'd ask CJ for a refund! :lol:



Seriously, though, the first pass over a race I don't look at times, figs, anything like that. I look at each hors'e hisory bottom to top, to see what horses fit today's conditions (Quinn's Conditoin book stuff). Also, I look at records at today's track, distance, claims, drops, works, etc.
I don't want to get sidetracked by a large Beyer by a horse that really dosen't belong in today's race too early. The pave and figs come in late in the process for me. Sometine, I totally ignore the pace/speed figs and go strictly on the horse's suitability to the conditions, especially in 3yo races.

hurrikane
08-13-2005, 12:20 AM
I'd do just what they did before they started selling times to the public.

I'd make my own. And make a lot of money. The sell it to the publc and call it something like....hurribase. and everyone in the land would have to pay me a royalty because I came up with the idea. (yeah right)

bettheoverlay
08-13-2005, 09:14 AM
With the Bris PPGenerator you can block out all the times and speed and pace figures and look at PPs the way we used to 30 yrs ago. I often do this because I throw out too many contenders who have low Beyers. Also, I enjoy looking for angles unencumbered by numbers.

Then I pop all the numbers back in, and get seriously confused.

twindouble
08-13-2005, 10:18 AM
bettheoverlay;

Is there any way I can download DRF Pdf PP's, put them somewhere and exclude what I want?

Thanks,

T.D.

Tom
08-13-2005, 10:24 AM
PDF files canonot be manipulated - they are basically view only, but you can copy text or images and paste them elsewhere. Probably not real efficient for your needs.

twindouble
08-13-2005, 10:27 AM
PDF files canonot be manipulated - they are basically view only, but you can copy text or images and paste them elsewhere. Probably not real efficient for your needs.

shoot! Thanks Tom.

takeout
08-13-2005, 11:32 AM
With the Bris PPGenerator you can block out all the times and speed and pace figures and look at PPs the way we used to 30 yrs ago.
Is there any way to do that and then print out the PPs with the blank space that was created still in the same place where the figs were? When I try it everything moves to the left and I get all of the blank space over on the far right.

bettheoverlay
08-13-2005, 07:51 PM
Everything moves to the left when you exclude with Bris. No way around it that I can see.

takeout
08-14-2005, 03:34 AM
Thanks. I was afraid that was probably the case. I do think they have a good idea in letting the users create their own style of PPs. That’s an idea that I would like to see taken a lot farther.

cj
08-14-2005, 05:17 AM
bettheoverlay;

Is there any way I can download DRF Pdf PP's, put them somewhere and exclude what I want?

Thanks,

T.D.

Actually, if you buy Adobe Acrobat, not the reader, you can do some of these things. It takes too much time though in my opinion.

Here is a link for a free 30 day tryout:

http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobatpro/tryout.html

cj
08-14-2005, 05:20 AM
Is there any way to do that and then print out the PPs with the blank space that was created still in the same place where the figs were? When I try it everything moves to the left and I get all of the blank space over on the far right.

You can, but you would have to write a script to replace the figures in the file with blank fields before opening it. This actually wouldn't be very hard, though you would probably want to rename the file so you don't overwrite the one with the numbers.

In other words, if for speed figures a horse has:
100,99,80,75,66,58,100,88,92,75,

Just replace with:
,,,,,,,,,,

BRIS has file explanations on their site.

Que
08-15-2005, 12:13 AM
nobeyerspls,

I would use class ratings instead of speed ratings. Although, it might be difficult to come up with pace ratings--it would probably still be possible using the horse's running position at each point of call measured against the level of competition. To be honest, my class ratings typically have higher expected rates of return than my pace ratings--probably because a lot more people are using pace/speed ratings nowadays.

takeout
08-15-2005, 07:58 PM
You can, but you would have to write a script to replace the figures in the file with blank fields before opening it.
Thanks, but due to my almost total ignorance of all things computer I stick to what’s easy. :) Nice to know it can be done though.