Have You Been Scammed by the "Winner's Circle Group" and the STEALTH software?

[clickety]

:mad:

If you have, I'd like to hear from you as I'm in the process of drafting a Formal Complaint to the Federal Trade Commission and the BBB in Arlington, Texas where they seem to be based. This is an obsolete "black box" old DOS program and its programmer John Rancont died several years ago. Since none of the present group has any programming skills, they are simply reselling the old software to whatever suckers they can find for outrageous sums, and no refunds. It has no value whatsoever for use with simulcasting and racing of today, and in point of fact, is very difficult to use when one must handicap many races at multiple tracks, looking for optimum plays.

In addition, I've been looking around at some of the old posts on this board, and these reflect sordid stories of much money lost.

This continuing scam needs to be taken off the Internet. If I can incorporate details from "scamees" in the Complaint, it will be much more effective.

Please contact me directly at
mgu@imt.net

Thanks!

[Overlay]

I wish you luck, as I would say to anyone trying to call a scam artist to account. However, although I'm no attorney, isn't there a strong established presumption of "Let the buyer beware" in cases where merchandise like this is involved? Was the fact that there would be no refunds given omitted or misrepresented in the marketing?

[JimG]

Wow! Everytime I log on to PA anymore there is a new surprise. Who ever said this place was boring?:D

[NoDayJob]

No case. Good Luck However.

NDJ

[kenwoodallpromos]

I'm still trying to figure out why people pay outrageous sums for anythying.
Is it "you get what you pay for"? Maybe I shoud sell my ideas for $99.99.

[NoDayJob]

:D You'll sell more at $199.00. Never sell too low, nor too high. $199.00 just right. :D

NDJ

[kenwoodallpromos]

No crying oin baseball. no guarantees in horseracing!

[Steve 'StatMan']

No crying oin baseball. no guarantees in horseracing!

There just might be one guarantee in horse racing. Someone will always be crying about something!

Closest real guarantee in horse racing - You'll never have enough on the winner.

[JimG]

If losing while using software is being scammed, I may need to add some names to the list:D

Jim

[midnight]

I've posted before about guys I know shelling out up to $1,000 (I guess it's $795 now) for Stealth and essentially getting a seven year old DOS program which is lucky to beat the take (ROI of around 0.85). Neither of the two would be interested in lending their names to a complaint, though.

The last I heard, Winner's Circle was still giving refunds on request. When did it change?

As far as scamming goes, I dunno if you have a case, but good luck to you.

[joeyspicks]

I STILL cannot figure out why anyone would pay $79.99 for this "program"....let alone $799 or $1000.00 !!!I mean check out the website............no way I would ever consider doing business with these characters. Not when there are plenty of reputable programs AND people backing them up!

I applaud your idea.....but I do not think there is a snowballs chance......:bang:

[Speed Figure]

People will buy anything if they think they can win. All it takes is a nice ad and there buying.

[Buckeye]

I almost fell for it, but almost is not the same thing as shelling out the cash.

I read their BBS four years ago (whatever) and saw they were liars.

and guess what, they're not alone.

Born at night but not last night.

[mainardi]

Sorry to hear about the latest scam, but it's as old as dirt. :mad:

When I first started wagering legally, I went to the track late one day and saw that one of the tout services had hit the first six races cold. Being suspicious -- and I was a printer to boot -- I noticed that the ink looked fresh. It was, and I have never given those "reputable" services a dime of my money.

When I decided to get into the handicapping software business -- "way back" in 1989 -- I decided that "enhancing the truth" might make me some big money in a hurry, but I'd be out of business in no time, and probably never be able to get back in. So, it's 16 years later, and I'm still in business.

Okay, now I'll get to the point. If you believe that you've been defrauded, you can probably only make it tougher for them to continue. If their web site and/or advertisement doesn't offer some sort of guarantee, then you have to be aware that they could be flaky (at best). My advice is to give them a hard time until they give you something back, and also write to Alan Dietrich at the Phillips Racing Newsletter (PO Box 5817, Auburn, CA 95604) with your problem; he's very good at publishing this kind of thing, and you might get those names you're looking for.

[cato]

I'm really baffled at most of the responses on this thread. It seems that people would want to support, or at least be supportive of, someone who is actually willingto take some action to at least skow down and/or reduce the get the liars and scam artists that permeat the business.

To say buyer beware, etc. is worthless and denies the reality of our society. While it is a good rule of thumb that a buyer should exercise caution and skepticism, when the seller of goods is flat out lying to you (and ofen has a shill who will be the "real life" user who gives a testimonial, it makes it difficult to make on a buyer.

Personally I've been amazed at all of the ouright lies that are put in advetisements and used in marketing horse racing products and would love to see it reduced or stopped.

I've always thought that the feds or state offccilas would view this market as too small but my guess is that there has also been little action because we, as a group, don't do anything to stop it.

Amen (end of sermon)

Cheers, Cato

[takeout]

Personally I've been amazed at all of the ouright lies that are put in advetisements and used in marketing horse racing products
Me too.

And horseracing is just a drop in the bucket compared to what some of the largest companies going are puttin’ down. At least with something like horse handicapping you expect a ton of sleaze. What we shouldn’t have to expect is the very sleazy way many of the biggest companies out there operate.

All you have to do is turn on the TV and listen to almost any commercial. Seems no one wants to tell the truth if a lie will do.
Businesses don’t make money any more; they screw people out of it.

General rule of thumb: If you see it on TV, go the other way. And that includes horseracing. Someone has to pay for all of those lies.