Pennsylvania's Lt Governor.....

[ElKabong]

.....needs to be horsewhipped. Low- life liberal bitch. :mad:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05204/542520.stm

excerpts...

Lt. gov. crashed Marine's funeral, kin say
Saturday, July 23, 2005

By Tom Barnes, Post-Gazette Harrisburg Bureau

The family of a Marine who was killed in Iraq is furious with Lt. Gov. Catherine Baker Knoll for showing up uninvited at his funeral this week, handing out her business card and then saying "our government" is against the war......

In a phone interview, Goodrich said the funeral service was packed with people "who wanted to tell his family how Joe had impacted their lives."

Then, suddenly, "one uninvited guest made an appearance, Catherine Baker Knoll."

She sat down next to a Goodrich family member and, during the distribution of communion, said, "Who are you?" Then she handed the family member one of her business cards, which Goodrich said she still has.

"Knoll felt this was an appropriate time to campaign and impose her will on us," Goodrich said. "I am amazed and disgusted Knoll finds a Marine funeral a prime place to campaign."

[kenwoodallpromos]

He used to do what Dean does now and it sounds like what the Lt Gov was doing at the funeral- stirring up trouble.
I hand out business cards only if I am unknown. She musy have been until now!!

[Tom]

Disgusting. Howard Dean would be proud.

[Secretariat]

Pretty bad...almost as bad as the guy who got us into this war not showing up for the Marine's funeral...almost...btw..has he shown up for any Marine's funeral...

[JustRalph]

Pretty bad...almost as bad as the guy who got us into this war not showing up for the Marine's funeral...almost...btw..has he shown up for any Marine's funeral...

your stain on this thread was predictable................

[Tom]

Ralph, having Sec on my Ignore list, I cannot rate his posts. Would you give his last one a negative reputation point for me? And a comment of "Loser!" :p

[boxcar]

JustRalph addressing Sec, wrote:

your stain on this thread was predictable

Actually Sec reminds me of a cat marking his territory with his foul smelling urine.

Boxcar

[JustRalph]

Ralph, having Sec on my Ignore list, I cannot rate his posts. Would you give his last one a negative reputation point for me? And a comment of "Loser!" :p

Done!!!

[lsbets]

In reading about this one, I also found some more info on Fred Phelps, the guy from that church in Kansas who has protested at soldier's funerals. If you recall, he was referred to on here as a right wing conservative. Well, he is in fact a liberal (on everything but gay rights) democrat. He has run in the Democratic primary for governor in Kansas 3 times, and was invited to both Clinton inaugurations. I am glad to know that while both of these people are associated with the Democratic Party, most Democrats would be disgusted by what they did.

[Secretariat]

The last solace of a Republican...personal name calling...sticks and stones fellas...but my question wasn't addressed...

btw..has he shown up for any Marine's funeral...

[Pace Cap'n]

The last solace of a Republican...personal name calling...sticks and stones fellas...but my question wasn't addressed...

btw..has he shown up for any Marine's funeral...

Have you?

[lsbets]

I bet you he says he did .........

[JustRalph]

The last solace of a Republican...personal name calling...sticks and stones fellas...but my question wasn't addressed...

btw..has he shown up for any Marine's funeral...

Are you stupid? Do you know what it takes for a President to roll into town?

I have worked 4 different Presidential Details as a police officer. A President choosing to come to a Marine's funeral would be the most terrible thing that could happen to the family. I am sure you think that making political hay out of the death of a soldier is acceptable. But just like the subject of this thread, it would be the greatest distraction in the history of the world. Not to mention the precedent it would set.

You are just beyond belief when it comes to the crap you spew. You know not what you speak of. The fact that a city practically shuts down when the President rolls into town doesn't even enter your mind does it? The traffic tie ups, the media that would surround the funeral (and the family etc) would make what is already a miserable day, a political event of colossal proportions. These soldiers families don't need anymore stress. They are grieving, you get it? You speak out your ass as usual..............

[Secretariat]

Have you?

PaceNCap,

If you want to do a search on my previous posts, you'd see that I have. But that isn't the issue, this is a man who is the Commander in Chief, who sets an example towards his men, and then can't even cross the river to make an appearance at Arlington for the death of one Marine. He can fly all over the world with a huge security entourage and at massive expense, but to cross the Potomac river to attend one soldier's funeral, no that's asking too much.

[boxcar]

Secretariat wrote:

If you want to do a search on my previous posts, you'd see that I have. But that isn't the issue, this is a man who is the Commander in Chief, who sets an example towards his men, and then can't even cross the river to make an appearance at Arlington for the death of one Marine. He can fly all over the world with a huge security entourage and at massive expense, but to cross the Potomac river to attend one soldier's funeral, no that's asking too much.

And if he attended the funeral of one Marine, then isn't he obligated to attend the funerals of all Marines? Why stop with one? The other Marines who sacrified their lives were of less value than the one who was honored with his presence?

And if he attended the funerals of all Marines, wouldn't the other branches of the Armed Services feel a wee bit slighted if he failed to attend the funerals of all who died in the Army, Air Force and Navy. And if he attended the funerals of all these Armed Services' personnel, wouldn't the CIA feel a bit slighted if he didn't attend all the funerals of their operatives killed in action in the War on Terrorism?

And if Bush failed to "fly all over the world" to attend important International meetings, wouldn't you Libs be branding him a snobbish isolationist?

Boxcar

[Secretariat]

Boxcar,

Your logic is inane. Using your logic, if Bush attacks one nation that has a repressive regime and is not a democracy, well then of course other nations that are victims of repressive regimes that are also not democracies should be offended if Bush likewise does not attack them (like N. Korea or Saudi Arabia).

To argue that Bush attending "one" soldiers funeral would offend the rest of the armed services who would feel hurt "unless he attended all funerals" is the height of lunacy. Man, you don't give much credit to soldiers if you think their skin is that thin.


JR's argument at cost and disruption at least was an attempt at a defense. Lame, but a defense.

Your response - well, I'll just pretend you made a mistake and hit the Submit button.

[Tom]

The president just up an going to t funeral - small thinking, Sec. Dumb idea and small thinking. And if he did, you libs would whine about wasting taxpayer's money doing so.

[Suff]

This Family lost a Son and all patience and understanding go their way. Obviously they're devastated , Understandbly so. They're son gave his life in defense of the Country.


Regarding the story. Polticians at Miliatry Funerals is common. And usually considered an honor. Giving out a business card as a State official is also usually considered a nice way of making you and your office available to the family in crisis. High Ranking State officials assist family in nominations for Military decorations post-humonously. Expiditing death benefits to a family in need, having his name read in the congressional record, Honoring his contribution by naming a school or park after him. Insuring that the local community recognize his sacrifice.

This story is a 3rd party account. No direct quotes from the Lt Governer are given. The person who spoke to the Lt Gov declined to speak. The quotes attributed in this story are 3rd party....and easily misinterpreted or even misquoted.

Taken on its face value it is presented to reflect Knoll in a poor manner. I'm not assuming she did'nt. When death is invovled, tragic death especially, I give everyone a wide bearth. I hope when it settles down the Lt Gov can address any mistakes. However, the story itself presents a heresay account.

[boxcar]

Secretariat wrote:

Boxcar,

Your logic is inane. Using your logic, if Bush attacks one nation that has a repressive regime and is not a democracy, well then of course other nations that are victims of repressive regimes that are also not democracies should be offended if Bush likewise does not attack them (like N. Korea or Saudi Arabia).

Why in the world would "repressive regimes" be offended if the U.S. doesn't attack them? Seems to me they'd be thankin' their lucky stars. :rolleyes:

To argue that Bush attending "one" soldiers funeral would offend the rest of the armed services who would feel hurt "unless he attended all funerals" is the height of lunacy. Man, you don't give much credit to soldiers if you think their skin is that thin.

All I did was carry out your rather inane complaint to its logical conclusion. If you think Bush should attend one soldier's funeral out of some moral sense of duty or obligation, then why shouldn't Bush attend every soldier's funeral? What makes that one Marine's sacrifice more valuable or any different from the rest of his fallen comrades'?

Also, there are the familes to consider in addition to the Armed Services. Familes would feel slighted also.

JR's argument at cost and disruption at least was an attempt at a defense. Lame, but a defense.

JR's argument constituted valid reasons, also.

Your response - well, I'll just pretend you made a mistake and hit the Submit button

And I'll "pretend" that your dumb analogy betwee funerals of Armed Services personnel and actions of war against other nations was due to some bad stink weed you used.

Boxcar

[skate]

i do have trouble getting thru this type of posting. i refer to the anti gov, anti war mentality.
i could see a person being anti rep/dem, but when it comes to battle with another country it should be "common sense". this anti war sort, just prolongs the situation, common sense.

and can one imagine, just how the hell would a president attend one funeral and not all the others? hed find no time for anything else. insane!
it is the phony reasoning that gives me a problem with this type post.

but i do appreciate the starting point here on the lt.gov. again insane!!

[Secretariat]

Reagan and LBJ had no trouble going to funerals. And never heard that others were slighted. And never heard on taxpayer or congressman complain about the costs. Just a decent thing to do. No big deal.

"LBJ attended two funerals for soldiers who died during the Vietnam War. The first funeral was for Captain Albert Smith, son of White House correspondent Merriman Smith, which was held February 28, 1966. The second was for Major General Keith R. Ware, held September 17, 1968. LBJ had met Ware while visiting Vietnam.

Richard Nixon does not appear to have attended the funerals of any soldiers killed in Vietnam.

Jimmy Carter attended a memorial service for the soldiers killed in the failed rescue of America hostages in Iran in 1980.

Ronald Reagan attended memorial services on several occasions for American soldiers. In 1983 he attended a service at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, in connection with the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut, which cost the lives of 241 people. In 1987 he attended a service at Mayport Naval Station in Florida for the sailors killed on the USS Stark.

President George Herbert Walker Bush does not appear to have attended any funerals for American soldiers

Bill Clinton attended a service in October 2000 in memory of the 17 sailors killed in the attack on the USS Cole.

President George W. Bush has chosen not to attend any funerals for American soldiers."

[lsbets]

Sec, you're jumping between memorial services and funerals to try to make Bush seem worse than anyone else. I'm pretty sure Bush has attended some memorial services. Your post lists memorial services for most Presidents, so it seems like a lot never attended a funeral. You're stretching to make a point, that I have not heard anyone in the military care about. Of all the gripes my guys had, never once did anyone say "That Bush doesn't go to soldier's funerals." It simply doesn't matter, and as your post shows, a lot of Pres didn't go to soldier's funerals. As a matter of fact, judging from your post, the only one to go to a funeral was LBJ.

[Tom]

Really reaching here.......tough to remian a true lib in the face of reality. :lol:

[BIG RED]

Sec, still can't figure why you called boxcar's logic inane? Love reading both sides over here though.

[tonto1944]

The Gov. of Pa. apologized for what the LT. Gov. Her name is Catherine Knolls. She said she had no comment. Imagine that the Gov. has to apologize for her while she goes into hiding.

[Suff]

The Gov. of Pa. apologized for what the LT. Gov. Her name is Catherine Knolls.

So add Bullshiting to the list of things your capable of. I had a hard time accepting your Kennedy bashing. You and I both know that You owe the Kennedys better. If not what they did for you...but what they did for your people...and how you got where are.

Now you go Bullshitting along on Knoll-Rendell. Rendell DID NOT apologize. You did'nt provide any source for your bullshit.. you just spouted.

Rendell Comments On Baker Knoll Controversy
HARRISBURG, Pa. -- Gov. Ed Rendell spoke Tuesday afternoon about Lt. Gov. Catherine Baker Knoll's actions at a soldier's funeral.


The family said Baker Knoll showed up to the funeral uninvited, handed out her business card, and was quoted as saying the state government was against the war.


Rendell said Baker-Knoll's comments were a mistake, but sees handing out her business card as a kind gesture to offer help. Rendell said the incident is unfortunate.


"Name me one thing that the lieutenant governor had done wrong substantially". Rendell said.


The lieutenant governor has apologized for her actions.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rendell sticking with Knoll

Governor waves off missteps, malaprops in saying she'll be his running mate in '06

Wednesday, July 27, 2005
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05208/544225.stm





As I said when I first read this story... There is not one direct quote from Knoll in the story. The author did not speak to Knoll, and did'nt speak to any one Knoll spoke to. There is NO evidence in the story that what happened actually happened in the manner that the 3rd party insinuates. The Reporter did'nt even Speak to a FAMILY member. The Reporter spoke to an In-law. The IN-law did not speak to knoll, did'nt meet Knoll and did'nt over hear anything Knoll said. geesh...and you take the article as Gospel.

I have a F'ng guy in the White House who testified under oath he outed a CIA agent and you can sleep at night. But yet...you hear this 2nd hand version and run with it. Get a Brain.

The fact you , and anyone else, ran with the story as a way to shame this democratic as selfish and unpatriotic simply shows how simple you are.

I never wonder why Jerry Springer, Montel Williams and Ricki Lake had huge audiences when I see the way people actually read this story as fact.

[tonto1944]

<LI>I thought we had run out of shame! What a disgraceful act, crashing a funeral. (Gov. Ed) Rendell did the right thing, but (Lt. Gov. Catherine Baker) Knoll needs to be fired.

I am also a veteran, and an intrusion like this, when parents are grieving over a lost son, is intolerable. Further, Ms. Knoll adds additional insult to the family by telling the bereaved that it was all for naught, as she opposes the war on terror.

Lamar Johnson
Beaverton, Ore.

<LI>For the governor to say the passing out of her business card was intended to show that she was from the government and was here to help them is shameful at best.

These people (politicians) you are reporting on made my stomach turn re their supreme arrogance and depravity.

This woman, (Lt. Gov. Catherine Baker) Knoll, stole from this family. This family has the absolute right of human dignity to bury their family member with precious memories of the funeral. This woman usurped those memories with her shallow disregard. Memories of their son's funeral will always include Knoll's smelly presence. She stole precious memories from this family.

What a terrible thing that this woman is real as opposed to being a laughable comedic fool entombed in a literary work.

God bless this Marine and his family.

John Doty
Sgt. Maj., USMC, Retired
Kannapolis, N.C.

<LI>I am writing to you to express that I am appalled that the Lt. Gov. of Pennsylvania would go to a Marine's funeral and disparage what he gave his life for. The apology does not only need to go to SSG Goodrich's family, but to all the service members and their families that care enough about their country to put themselves at risk to defend it. ...

I am also curious to find out when the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania declared that it was a supporter of terrorism. Since both (Lt. Gov. Catherine Baker) Knoll and (Gov. Ed) Rendell have made it clear they are against the global war on terrorism -- even though one of the four planes on 9/11 crashed on Pennsylvania soil -- I want to know what they are planning to do about it. Did Pennsylvania decide to withdraw from the United States and pursue its own foreign policy of appeasement?

Brian D.
Formerly of Butler County

<LI>Lt. Gov. Catherine Baker Knoll's attendance at the funeral of a Marine killed in Iraq is completely crass.

Her reason is pure, unadulterated B.S.

W. S. Hornbaker
Knoxville, Tenn.






Sandra Tolliver can be reached at stolliver@tribweb.com (stolliver@tribweb.com) or (412) 320-7840.

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[tonto1944]

Rendell to send apology to Marine's family (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1449803/posts)
Pittsburgh Tribune ^ (http://www.freerepublic.com/^http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/trib/regional/s_356712.html) | 07/25/05 | Sandra Tolliver


Posted on 07/24/2005 9:35:54 PM PDT by Pikamax (http://www.freerepublic.com/~pikamax/)


Written apologies will be sent to a fallen Marine's relatives angered by Lt. Gov. Catherine Baker Knoll's uninvited appearance at the soldier's funeral and her criticism of the war in Iraq, Gov. Ed Rendell said Sunday.

Rendell said he will send a personal letter to the family of the late Marine Staff Sgt. Joseph Goodrich, of Westwood, and will ask Knoll to do the same. Goodrich, 32, a police officer and infantry unit leader, died July 10 in a mortar attack in Hit, Iraq.

Rendell said he hadn't spoken with Knoll about the incident, but was disturbed by the family's charge that she made a political statement against the war. "It's not the business of state government to support the war, but our state supports the men and women who are fighting this war," Rendell said during an appearance in Mt. Washington.


(Excerpt) Read more at pittsburghlive.com (http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/trib/regional/s_356712.html) ...

[tonto1944]

Hows that Suff

[Suff]

Hows that Suff

No good. Tell you why in in a second. First... I've said about a week ago the article is a 3rd party account.... You have never addressed that. It's a step above Gossip. Add the trauma from the situation and you've got a volitale spot.

Thats what I'm asking. Show me some more. Where's the beef? Someone who was at the Funeral heard some things? 2nd hand? 3rd hand? Eaves dropping? How the F do you know?

So far... no one in the family came out in vocal outrage? Maybe now that the story has legs they will. But this was an in-law.

So I'm asking you for some kind of demonstration that this is even how it went down. Come on man... Read the orginal article. Read closley how the writer is able to attribute words and actions with out stating it as a FACTUAL event.



__________________________________________________ _______________



Your Link to the Rendall apology? Again... read close. Your article is dated Monday. 7-24-03. The Governer was speaking "hypothetically" based on intial reoprts. The third paragraph of that link states:

Rendell said he hadn't spoken with Knoll about the incident, but was disturbed by the family's charge that she made a political statement against the war.

My link is dated today. After he spoke to Knoll!!. Rendell was not saying he DID or WOULD send a letter. He way saying "If" the reports are accurate.


Your other points are Letters. People like you. The kind that can write but can't read.


Tonto.. I could care little for Knoll. Rick Santorm is all I need to know about Pennsylvania. So I'm not going to argue this any deeper. I only came down busting your B's on it because I did'nt apprecaite your Kennedy bashing.


You wrote a little biography I read. Spent a lot of your life on the backside. You of all people... who have seen the disavantages poor people face...to knock the Kennedys. Beyond me. Ted Kennedy is the best friend those people ever had in US Govt! What this guy and his family has done for the poor, the elderly, the blind, the infirmed, the working class should hold your tongue. Even if you don't like Ted personally, you should'nt be publicly bashing the guy or his family like that.

Just because it is fashionable doesn't make it right.

[tonto1944]

http://www.philly.com/images/common/spacer.gif
Knoll, Rendell apologize to family

http://www.philly.com/images/common/spacer.gif
The lieutenant governor made antiwar remarks at the funeral of Marine Joseph Goodrich, killed in Iraq.
http://www.philly.com/images/common/spacer.gif
By Amy Worden
http://www.philly.com/images/common/spacer.gif
Inquirer Harrisburg Bureau
http://www.philly.com/images/common/spacer.gif

HARRISBURG - Gov. Rendell's swing through western Pennsylvania to dole out economic development checks has turned into a damage control mission after a furor erupted over the lieutenant governor's appearance at a funeral of a Marine killed in Iraq.

The family of Staff Sgt. Joseph Goodrich, 32, of Westwood, Pa., who was killed on July 10, was angered when Lt. Gov. Catherine Baker Knoll turned up at Goodrich's services last week, passed out business cards, and made remarks about the state government being against the war.

Efforts to reach the Goodrich family yesterday were unsuccessful. Goodrich's sister-in-law, Rhonda Goodrich, told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette: "Knoll felt this was an appropriate time to campaign and impose her will on us. I am amazed and disgusted Knoll finds a Marine funeral a prime place to campaign."

Rendell's spokesman, Kate Philips, said yesterday that Knoll's attendance was not "ill-intentioned" but that the governor asked her to write a letter of apology and said that he would do the same.

On the matter of the Pennsylvania state government's position on the war, Philips said, "It's not the state's role to take a position on the war other than to support the men and women fighting in it."

Rendell has written letters to the families of all 89 Pennsylvania servicemen and women who have died in Iraq, but has a policy not to attend the funeral unless he is invited, Philips said.

In a letter sent to Goodrich's widow, Amy, yesterday, Knoll said it was not her intention to "add to what must be a tremendously heartbreaking, difficult period."

Knoll also wrote that she supports the troops in her role as lieutenant governor and supports President Bush.

Knoll wrote that she handed out a business card so the family could contact her. "To do anything that was deemed insensitive was completely counter to my intent."

Knoll's spokesman, Sean Pendrak, would not say whether Knoll is reconsidering her policy of attending funerals without an invitation.

The incident was the latest in a string of faux pas by Knoll, a popular former state treasurer, since she took office in 2003. Knoll, 74, has been known to misspeak during public appearances and misidentify individuals. On several occasions she has referred to Rendell as the late movie actor, Edward G. Robinson.

While Rendell and Knoll were elected separately in 2002, Philips said yesterday that Rendell has no intention of removing Knoll - who enjoys wide support in western Pennsylvania - from the ticket in 2006.





Tell me this woman has all her marbles

[Suff]

Tell me this woman has all her marbles[/QUOTE]


Are you a do-do brain Tonto? Seriously. I'm going to ask you one more time then I'm done with you. That appears to be the course I must take with you. You strike me as to oblivious to talk to.


Now... Let me try one more time. Because You like horse's and seem like a decent guy. I want you to go to the orginal article and show me proof of what you speak. PLease.. I can't continue having this discussion because it is frustrating. I continue to ask you the same thing over and over.

Please show me somewhere, anywhere, that a person who spoke to Knoll also spoke to the reporter. Can you do that? Will you do that? Can you show me any of that.

Tonto... If you'd like to make up your own way of doing things... thats fine. I'll move on and let you do your thing. But traditionally this is how things work. You post a point, and ask me "how's that suff?" And I address that point. You on the other hand keep ignoring what I am asking you....

Please... can you show me any direct quotes from KNoll? Can you even get me a direct quote from Someone who spoke to Knoll? Can you Get me a quote from the person who got the business card? can you get me a quote from the person who said The State was anti-war? Can you get me ONE of these? All of them?


From the article.
Efforts to reach the Goodrich family yesterday were unsuccessful

*no one from the family has even been spoken to.



from the same article
The family of Staff Sgt. Joseph Goodrich, 32 who was killed on July 10, was angered

* yet he writes as if they have expressed anger to him. False


I see you have trouble cutting and pasting...so maybe your not as bright as your horse picking skills. But the article you posted even TOLD you that no one in the family has spoken to the press.

That's why you gotta read dude. Not react. Don't be simple. Don't be misled so easily. Don't count on press reports with 3rd partry information for your news.

This story has now taken on its own life...and I'm chasing it. I will ask you again...for my 4th and final time. Can you go into the orginal article and show me any proof that what the reporter said happened. Actually Happened.

I'll be waiting for that. That's all I'll respond to.

btw... this was the 26th Military Funeral Knoll had been to.