Delaware Park "Choose Six" ?

[twindouble]

I don't know if there's been a thread on this subject but for the pick 6 players out there I sure as heck hope this form of wager dies on the vine.

The Vegas mantaility that exists today in the sport is eroding what once was a fantastic thing. To a point I can understand the need for change over time but don't mess with something that's been working well for many years like the pick 6.

What they don't understand is what draws handicappers to the pick 6, that is to eliminate the compitition as you go, not eliminate and give them more chances to take you on again. It will only dilute the pool in the end game.

Here's how it works. Betters make selections in any six races on the card. If they lose, they have the obtion to buy back into the pool as long as there's six races left on the card. This form of wager will happen on July 17.

Another dumb idea they have is, "Group Bet" that groups horses in each race. Now get this, they say it's an attempt to lure novices. What a joke! How in the heck will a novice learn to handicap and enjoy what the sport is meant to be. This Lottery wager will be offered soon they say.

What do you think?

[Figman]

Delaware Park chief operating officer William Fasy said "the bet will start today (July 9th), but the $50,000 guaranteed payoff is set for Delaware Handicap Day next (this coming) Sunday. Every day after that, for a month, there will be a guaranteed $5,000 payout, plus a carryover."

The Cantor Index "Choose Six" bet at Delaware Park better come alive soon! They have advertised a $50,000 guaranteed Choose Six pool for Delaware Handicap day.

It looks like another State of Delaware wagering disaster similar to when they authorized football card betting and went bust when their betting point spreads were wacky.

The Choose Six started Saturday July 9th.
9-July
Pool Total - $1,234.00
Payout - $77.10
10-July
Pool Total - $732.00
Payout $34.30
11-July
Pool Total - $287.00
Payout - $2.65
12-July
Pool Total - $445.00
Payout - $7.50
No one has picked six over the four days and the carryover currently is just $1,518.
I hope they have a good insurance policy!

[twindouble]

Thanks Figman;


That's good news to me, maybe it will die a slow death. Would you wager on it?

[Steve 'StatMan']

I suspect any track that already has a successful Pick Six won't change it for the Choose Six. However, there are very few tracks outside of the major circuits that get a lot of action in the Pick Six. So the others tracks, who of course would like to have something like a successful Pick Six, will try things from time to time. Hawthorne tried putting in guarantees a few years ago - and funded the guarantee themselves. They got a big increase in handle from mainly just the sharpest simulcast players, but not nearly enough from other fans, and had to cough up the difference to make up the guarantee several times within the first two weeks before having to pull the plug on the guarantee to stop from bleeding green. So now we're back to normal the last few years, where they do have Pick Six's here at Haw (AP has given it up again) it often takes 2 to 3 days before the carryover even reaches $1,000. The show pool on the the worst race on the card usually outhandles the Pick Six here, and likely in many locals.

Maybe they should change it to a pick 9 or a pick all, have no carry over, and pay off to those who do the best that day. They should also call that bet "The All Day Sucker"!

[twindouble]

Steve;

Thanks for responding. I'm not up on what's going on with other tracks that I don't play. Some things catch my attention if they could directly effect what I do.

For example, I would like to see more tracks come to an agreement with Canada, also offer our racing to Europe and other countries on a broad scale.
Changes like that I can except but a level playing field would have to exist.

[Steve 'StatMan']

The odd thing with a Choose Six, is that the mutuel system has no way to know who had a losing ticket in the first race, vs. who showed up late after the first race and placed their winning ticket on the later races.

So in some cases, a loser may get back in, but in other cases, someone just hit the races they'd planned on.

If the Choose Six ever did take off like the successful Pick Sixes, it'd be rough, except for the well-capitalized bettors, to bet a second Choose Six after the ticket with one's six best races already lost. I would think only the bigger big players, and a few people with a gambling illness, would put in a second or third multi-hundred dollar Choose Six ticket on the same card.

[twindouble]

The odd thing with a Choose Six, is that the mutuel system has no way to know who had a losing ticket in the first race, vs. who showed up late after the first race and placed their winning ticket on the later races.

So in some cases, a loser may get back in, but in other cases, someone just hit the races they'd planned on.

If the Choose Six ever did take off like the successful Pick Sixes, it'd be rough, except for the well-capitalized bettors, to bet a second Choose Six after the ticket with one's six best races already lost. I would think only the bigger big players, and a few people with a gambling illness, would put in a second or third multi-hundred dollar Choose Six ticket on the same card.

That cracked me up! I agree, don't see this thing getting off the ground.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Thought of an alternative. If all Choose Six tickets had to be in before the start of the First Race, that could eliminate the Buy Back In problem, while still letting people chose their own 6 races, or place mulitple tickets on combinations of races.

[twindouble]

Thought of an alternative. If all Choose Six tickets had to be in before the start of the First Race, that could eliminate the Buy Back In problem, while still letting people chose their own 6 races, or place mulitple tickets on combinations of races.

Yes, that crossed my mind as well. Even without the buy back in what make me laugh is, someone could hit 6 with all chalks and others could have 6 value horses and have to share or not share with 5 .

[toetoe]

TwinD,

I've already mentioned a group-vs.-group bet I saw in Brasil. Called the dupla-exata. Four groups, giving sixteen possibilities, 1-1, 2-2, 3-3, and 4-4 being allowed (another thing we need to start here -- 1-1 exactas in races with coupled entries). Fine with me, just give me will-pays, a low takeout, and a large pool. Forget about the quinella and rolling doubles, Geez. The serial bets are great ... FOR THE TRACKS. We need a fighting chance to beat one race at a time, and this thing is one way, esp. in a gigantic, Ky. Derby-type field, to profit from a strong opinion.

[twindouble]

TwinD,

I've already mentioned a group-vs.-group bet I saw in Brasil. Called the dupla-exata. Four groups, giving sixteen possibilities, 1-1, 2-2, 3-3, and 4-4 being allowed (another thing we need to start here -- 1-1 exactas in races with coupled entries). Fine with me, just give me will-pays, a low takeout, and a large pool. Forget about the quinella and rolling doubles, Geez. The serial bets are great ... FOR THE TRACKS. We need a fighting chance to beat one race at a time, and this thing is one way, esp. in a gigantic, Ky. Derby-type field, to profit from a strong opinion.

toetoe; Bare with me because I can be a little thick headed when it comes to things like this. The way I took the group bet to mean was you sellect the groups you what to play and the machine spits out your play with no handicapping involved like the instant lottery. Am I wrong?

[Light]

All Cal tracks have had a close betting format to the choose 6 for years. It's a parlay card that you fill in as many races as you want,(up to six races max). You can play the parlay in any combo of WPS and choose non consecutive races. One benefit is if your first horse pays $8.40,the forty cents is also parlayed.You are not in a seperate parlay pool,so you wont get ripped off if alot of people hit and you are not forced to play 6 races. Therefore you can play a non consecutive choose double,choose Pk3,choose pk4 in place form etc. It's not too publicized as a bet,but since they haven't removed it from their betting menu all these years,It may be quietly popular.

[twindouble]

All Cal tracks have had a close betting format to the choose 6 for years. It's a parlay card that you fill in as many races as you want,(up to six races max). You can play the parlay in any combo of WPS and choose non consecutive races. One benefit is if your first horse pays $8.40,the forty cents is also parlayed.You are not in a seperate parlay pool,so you wont get ripped off if alot of people hit and you are not forced to play 6 races. Therefore you can play a non consecutive choose double,choose Pk3,choose pk4 in place form etc. It's not too publicized as a bet,but since they haven't removed it from their betting menu all these years,It may be quietly popular.


Hi Light; I don't see much sense in the Parlay wager with the exception of that forty cents you mentioned. I like to evaluate what's going on from race to race rather than commit to a bet I might change based on changing conditions. That's one thing I dislike about the pick 6, once your in your stuck so your forced to cover what ever eventuality that might accure and that's not easy with a limited bankroll that most people have.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Doubt any wager could be worse than Arlington's very short lived "Count Down" wager. Over 4 races, you first had to select the horse that finished exactly 4th(!), then the next race exactly 3rd(!), followed by 2nd, and finally the winner of the last leg. Took several days just to get a carryover of $1,000. I'm thinking that, because of the carryover, someone had to actually hit that ugly thing so they could mercy kill it before it continued. That was back around 1996-97-ish, before they closed until 2000, if I recall it correctly.

[twindouble]

Doubt any wager could be worse than Arlington's very short lived "Count Down" wager. Over 4 races, you first had to select the horse that finished exactly 4th(!), then the next race exactly 3rd(!), followed by 2nd, and finally the winner of the last leg. Took several days just to get a carryover of $1,000. I'm thinking that, because of the carryover, someone had to actually hit that ugly thing so they could mercy kill it before it continued. That was back around 1996-97-ish, before they closed until 2000, if I recall it correctly.

Steve; Who ever coined those type of wagers "gimmicks" had it right. I can remember when they come up with the trifecta. My first responce back then was, who in there right mind would make a wager where you have to pick a winner and two losers. Back then the win bet including the DD were the premier wagers. Well, a lot has changed sense then, hasn't it?

[rrbauer]

Light wrote:
"One benefit is if your first horse pays $8.40,the forty cents is also parlayed.You are not in a seperate parlay pool,so you wont get ripped off if alot of people hit and you are not forced to play 6 races. Therefore you can play a non consecutive choose double,choose Pk3,choose pk4 in place form etc. It's not too publicized as a bet,but since they haven't removed it from their betting menu all these years,It may be quietly popular."

The downside of this is that you're subjecting your money to multiple takeouts which is hardly a benefit if your main purpose is to play pick-bets.

[twindouble]

Light wrote:
"One benefit is if your first horse pays $8.40,the forty cents is also parlayed.You are not in a seperate parlay pool,so you wont get ripped off if alot of people hit and you are not forced to play 6 races. Therefore you can play a non consecutive choose double,choose Pk3,choose pk4 in place form etc. It's not too publicized as a bet,but since they haven't removed it from their betting menu all these years,It may be quietly popular."

The downside of this is that you're subjecting your money to multiple takeouts which is hardly a benefit if your main purpose is to play pick-bets.

rrbauer; Good point on the takeouts and I do think the picks are a good wager.

[Nickle]

I like this wager and hopefully more will adopt it in the future.

Nice to be able to pick your own races

[toetoe]

All these wagers just need a jump-start, a cash infusion from the track. Unlikely, I guess. That countdown thing sounds wild, like the card game, Crazy Whist. First hand is one card per player. By the thirteenth, assuming four players, you have a hand of thirteen, and you're supposed to bid how many tricks you'll win. Wild. We have some steeds in Ca. that are perfect for second, third, fourth, last, etc. Bring it on.

[skate]

im thinking that the "choose six" will become the choice bet over the "pic 6".


makes more sense to me to have the options. if your looking for your type race, you will have that option.start times will help also.

it may not carry the day, but ya, give er a whirl.

its what my book says, anyway.