Colt's Neck Data?

[Maxspa]

All,
What is the update on Colt's Neck Data. It used to have quite a loyal following. I believe it had a good rep for excellent numbers. Didn't they have a waiting list for members at one time in their existence.
Maxspa

[speedking]

Max,

Colts Neck numbers are still among the best. I used Rags sheets on a daily basis in NY from the late 70's until 1991 and switched to CN data at that time. They offer good pace numbers along with the speed figures and their turf numbers are very strong. I stayed with Colts Neck until early this year when I began using CJ's performance figures and his data has become my primary tool. This is not a knock on Colts Neck, but I have become very comfortable with CJ's numbers and features and I can get figures for tracks that Mike at Colts Neck does not supply. ( Woodbine, Remington,River Downs, Evangeline). Tampa is one of my favorite tracks and although Colts Neck covers it, there are figures missing early in the season as horses ship in from tracks he does not cover. This is the only flaw I found in their data. I was a happy customer for a long time.

They did have a waiting period of a few weeks unless you were referred by an existing client. His home base is Monmouth Park and the numbers are sold as a daily sheet there on a limited basis and they do influence the tote. Sometimes they would not accept new clients during the MP meet. I don't think this applies any longer, but they still have a loyal following in that area.
Also, the data cannot be downloaded over the Internet. You must dial-in to download all figures and they supply proprietary software which automatically identifies you and processes downloads very quickly considering you are still using a phone line.

Hope this helps.

speedking

[Maxspa]

Speedking,
Thank you for posting the excellent Colt's Neck Data update. I can remember when you had to be recommended to be able to buy the material and that was several years ago. They must be producing outstanding numbers to be in business that long and still have quite a following.
Maxspa

[PaceAdvantage]

They must be producing outstanding numbers to be in business that long and still have quite a following.
Maxspa

The fact that speedking jumped ship to CJ is quite an endorsement of CJ's numbers.

[Maxspa]

PA,
Posts relating to CJ's numbers and their value have been numerous. This is certainly a tribute to their effectiveness. When a software program such as Equisim makes an exception for program buyers to use them in their software, it reinforces their value. This also points out the importance of Pace Advantage to handicappers that want to improve their approach and handicapping tools. The information is up for discussion and includes a variety of opinions. By sifting through the posts one can determine what's best for your own individual approach.
Maxspa

[speedking]

PA,
Posts relating to CJ's numbers and their value have been numerous. This is certainly a tribute to their effectiveness. When a software program such as Equisim makes an exception for program buyers to use them in their software, it reinforces their value. This also points out the importance of Pace Advantage to handicappers that want to improve their approach and handicapping tools. The information is up for discussion and includes a variety of opinions. By sifting through the posts one can determine what's best for your own individual approach.
Maxspa

Good point, Max. I do not use CJ's figs the way many of the other users do. After using the Sheets and Colts Necks numbers, (which, incidentally, you can print out in a graph format up to the last 15 races), for so long, I go farther back in the numbers looking for form cycles and and horses' potential. Many of CJ's advocates lean heavily on the last number and I'm not very comfortable with this approach. As it stands now, however, I will have to change my style because so many horses are running back to their last figure when I would have expected a regression, particularly at the smaller tracks with cheaper horses.

speedking

[PaceAdvantage]

...I go farther back in the numbers looking for form cycles and and horses' potential.

That's the same exact way I use CJ's figs, the few times I've actually had a chance to handicap lately....

[Hosshead]

...Many of CJ's advocates lean heavily on the last number and I'm not very comfortable with this approach. As it stands now, however, I will have to change my style because so many horses are running back to their last figure when I would have expected a regression, particularly at the smaller tracks with cheaper horses.

speedking

Maybe a lot of horses are more consistent than we give them credit for, and we just don't notice it,- until we get good figures (Cj's) to compare ?

[Nickle]

Where do you get this stuff from??

Thanks

[pat]

how would you contact anyone at colts neck to check the product

[garyoz]

Maybe a lot of horses are more consistent than we give them credit for, and we just don't notice it,- until we get good figures (Cj's) to compare ?

If you used Ragozin or Thorograph in the past two decades, you would have seen much greater evidence of bounces than you see today. It really used to be one of the key angles when using The Sheets. Personally, I chalk it up to better living through chemistry. There has been alot of discussion of this phenomenon on the Thorograph board over the past few years.

Perhaps detention barns will change the situation. I am encouraged that horsemen such as Bill Mott are back into leading positions in the trainer standings.

[speedking]

how would you contact anyone at colts neck to check the product


The Colts Neck website is www.exit109.com/~coltsneck (http://www.exit109.com/~coltsneck)

The PaceFigures site (CJ) is www.pacefigures.com (http://www.pacefigures.com)

speedking

[takeout]

They did have a waiting period of a few weeks unless you were referred by an existing client.
I find that amazing. Maybe that’s the idea. Am I the only one scratching my head after reading that? I’m sure they are decent numbers but what’s going on here? Is this a “playing hard to get” marketing ploy or something even stranger? References? What’s the guy selling, guns?

[andicap]

I find that amazing. Maybe that’s the idea. Am I the only one scratching my head after reading that? I’m sure they are decent numbers but what’s going on here? Is this a “playing hard to get” marketing ploy or something even stranger? References? What’s the guy selling, guns?

I used Colts Neck data in the late 90s and can vouch for their accuracy. I stopped because at the time it wasn't worth it for me to spend $100 a month on data. I didn't bet that much.

Mike at CN is more interested in playing the horses than selling software. There is nothing nefarious or mysterious about it. His customer service is A-1 but he puts it through the windows with both hands based on his figures. He has never advertised that I can remember. He has a loyal base of clients that make him enough money and he's afraid if too many people get the figures it might ruin the prices.

Anyway I recommend CN very highly although I suspect you'll do just as good with CJ's figures.

[speedking]

Takeout,

Colts Neck has limited downloadable subscriptions just as CJ has capped program sales at 125. Mike at CN is an excellent and serious player who has a very loyal following and he respects them also. They never advertise and a few years back donated 100% of sales of the daily sheet during the MP meet to a jockeys fund. The daily sheets are available Wed. thru Sun. and are formatted same as a quick sheet version that you download. They cover 3 tracks in those sheets, NY and CA always. MP or MED if running, or FLA when NJ closes. The horses on this sheet are ranked according to pace and speed and included are average pace figures and the last 5 speed figs. The ranking are pretty good, although the odds line is useless, IMO. These sheets usually sell out within 30 minutes of the gates opening, especially on weekends. These numbers and rankings definitely influence the tote at MP.

I would still be with CN if they covered all tracks. The missing numbers can hurt with shippers and I've been doing very well playing smaller circuits that CN does not cover.

speedking

[TonyK@HSH]

Mike at CN also provides data to many jockey agents in the north-east. He supplies twice a week updates on his entire database of horses. Agents use this data to help them choose between double calls, evaluate shippers, etc.
Some top agents use this service...

Tony

[John]

I like CJ's figures. A good guide to the top contenders,you still have to handicap with any figures.