Why fight in Iraq?

[Dick Schmidt]

Why fight in Iraq? So we don't have to fight in the Subways of London or New York. Every terrorist we kill in Iraq is one fewer to carry the fight to the West. Nothing will satisfy them but the death of every non-Muslim in the world and if we have to face them, let it be over there where we are ready for them and can shoot back. If you think the price is too high, take a trip to London and go for a subway ride.

Dick

"One may speak of peace only with those who are peaceful. To talk peace with he who holds a drawn sword is foolish, unless one is unarmed, and then one must talk very fast indeed." - Louis L'Amour

[Kreed]

I don't agree with your post. It sounds logical, but it omits the fact that we,
WE--THE USA-- have CREATED more "terrorists". So, Every One we kill, 1.5
emerges. Don't hold me to the math, but actions will make reactions, and WE
with all our smarts & firepower haven't used either wisely. kinda funny but we
have not gotten a bang 4 our bucks. WE should have taken Afghanistan,
totally, 100%, as retaliation, and used our total control there to MaX our
image & fearsomeness. But we did not. Now, we look vulnerable now. And
now we invited terror & lost BILLIONS in acheiving that.

[Tom]

Kreed.......BS!


I am so sick of hearing this completely ignorant accusation I could barf.
WE have created not one single terrorist and anyone who tells you differently is an idiot.
There is no way this is our fault - it the fact that islam, which is more of an infection than a religion, has spawned a whole generation of sub-humans who have no morality, no ties to any God, only allah, who is the devil himself. They are fighting a holy war with us and our leaders just don't get it.
There will never be, can never be peace with the islamic menace. We either destroy it or it will destroy us.
Tony Blair went out of his way this morning to say that the bvast majority of islamic people are decent people who abhor this vbiolence. Tony, BS to you too.
The vast majority of islamics support, tolerate, or participate in violence.
they are spreading, colonizing Euorpe, and they must be stoped.
Blair and Bush both said they will be found and brought to justice. BS.
Let them be found and blown to hell, with their families, their friends, their neighbors.
G8 so-called world leaders had a lot of speeches today, lots of flags flying at half staff. But where is only acceptable response? Missile silos opening up, ships altering course at sea, tanks fueling up. Rifles being handed out.
The correct response to every sinlge act ot terrorism to pick a random islamioc city and obliterate it. Bombs, missiles, agent orange , napalm, re-vist the fire bombing of Dresden.
England should immediately errect interment camps and begin the process of rounding up all suspects - by profiling - and worry about sorting it out later. Ala Gitmo. The islamic world will never be fit to live amoung civilized people - and it' s high time we admitted it and did something about it.

It is almost 4 years since 9-11, and we still do not accept the fact that we are in a holy war.

[BIG RED]

I usually don't bop into off-topic, but I agree totally Tom. D, I'm tired of hearing the speak that you speak. Garbage. Made me sick when Mr Blair started to say how the muslims are this and that, shut tv off. Muslims faith is one faith, and destroy all other's faith, period! How can they be peaceful? All muslims. Just another cancer spread unto this world, as they have done before. Cowards fight for them.

[Light]

I know this is Tom,Lefty,Ljb,Sec and Hcap town but regardless of whose side you are on, one thing should be coming clearer. Contrary to what D.S. thinks,continuing to fight terrorists is increasing not decreasing the chances of future terrorist attacks on our soil. Why?

Because we are inadvertently training them.They are stronger than they ever were.And they are getting plenty of practice in the field. When we counter their tactics,they are not recoiling. Rather they are flourishing with more recruits and better tactics. For example. When the marine complained to Rummy that their HumVee's were not protected against roadside bombs,and they were subsequently reinforced,the bombs got stronger to penetrate the extra armor. The more we stay in an unwelcomed mode,the more we will further their development to kill Americans. I feel more insecure now from a terrorist attack than ever before. The handling of terrorism since 9/11 has served terrorists.

[Suff]

The IRA bombed every inch of London for 25 years. You know what it got them? The Good Friday Accords in 1998. They killed 3000+ people 5 and 10 at a time.

I just got off the Subway 5 minutes ago. Red Line outbound, Kendall to Davis. 3rd stop in is Harvard Square. Cops with assault rifles alway's lightens your day. Subway's an interesting place when everybody looks like they just saw a ghost.


If Iraq is the answer, it was sure explained wrong. I simply don't see how it works. Killing Sunni insurgents in Iraq is going to stop an AL Queda from driving a truck full of fertilizer into the Lincoln Tunnel? Al Queda would rather face an M-1 Abrahams Tank than a toll booth in NYC? Sorry, I understand anyone's immediatte reaction....but I just don't see Iraq furthering that goal.

Long term, a personality change in the Mideast may come from a renewed Iraq, or it may not. I highly doubt it's effectiveness in stopping ill-intended individuals around the world.

[Secretariat]

Killing Sunni insurgents in Iraq is going to stop an AL Queda from driving a truck full of fertilizer into the Lincoln Tunnel? Al Queda would rather face an M-1 Abrahams Tank than a toll booth in NYC? Sorry, I understand anyone's immediatte reaction....but I just don't see Iraq furthering that goal.



Well said Suff.

The problem was that the vermin of 911 were left to escape. And somehow this has become tied up with an Iraqi democracy excluding Sunnis. The Busho's want to relate these as the same exact thing. Bin Laden and Omar should have been captured long ago. In fact, I believe it was Rumsfeld who said he was neutralized. yeah, right...

We're spending all our resources on an experiment in democracy while those responsible for 911 are left to plot and plan in Pakistan or Iran where we are prohibited from entering. But put the flag up, talk tough, and keep the decades fight in Iraq up and let that reasure you that's stopping incidents like what occurred in London.

[Kreed]

if BOTH you guys say JUMP I'm in the LUNGE MODE. I HATE these mfs.
but man, i cannot agree with management here. Why didn't we just rout the
scum & leave? So we gave them time + skills + knowledge & now what? Hey,
i am getting weirded out on this Islam stuff & i'm not sure where I stand now
today. HELP.

[Tom]

Kreed, I know the feeling.

Those camel humpers think a few bombs will scare Brits? Ha!
They outlasted Hitler and got more bombs droppen on them than O Scuma Bin Stinkin ever saw. Hats off to them for the way they handled the day.

Suff, yes....Iraq is not the answer. It is only a small part of it. We need to mount a world-wide offensive on terror - we need an alliance of western nations to put together a tremenous machine that will roll over borders, scoure every nook and crany and weed out the cock roaches everywhere. Starting with Pakistan - who is beyond any doubt harboring Bin Lard-ass.

We know of specific masques here, in Germany, in England where Al-Qeda is operating, training, planning...yet we have not torched them. Why not!
You want to kill a cock raoch, spray the nest. Moasques should be primary targets.
Before this is over, ordinary people are going to start taking care of business.
Meanwhile, our "leaders" are talking about global warning, sheeez.

[Light]

i am getting weirded out on this Islam stuff ....
today. HELP.
Just think how weirded out Iraqi's feel on that Christianity stuff.

[Tom]

Yeah, they get wierded out by people helping people, people who don't beat their woman, people whose goal is ot to destroy the rest of the world. People who do thing,s accomplish things, improve things for everyone. Peple who run to help people ravaged by disastors, even when they are muslem victims. Ever see muslem nation rush to help a Christian nation in a disastor? ever see a muslemn nation rush to help its own people?
All these so-called holy people allowed Sadamm Hussein to murder muslems unchecked for three decades. Why the sudden concern for them now? Could it be because Christians aer helping them to be free, which is not a word you will find in the koran.
Yes, they are probably wiered out out by people who worship a Real God.

[Lefty]

as Tom says, saying we are creating more terrorists is stupid! They hit the World trade Center in the 90's. They hit the Cole. The terrorists, like hidden cockroaches, have been there all the time; plotting, planning and loving it when they hear the lib media blaming the adm instead of them.
The london attacks are another attempt to divide and scare us since they are clearly losing in Iraq.

[ljb]

Just saw a couple of guys on tv. One on msnbc the other on headline news. They were asked the question "you have 200 billion dollars to fight terroism, where you going to start?" Both said "At the borders." One elaborated some saying we should deport every illegal alien.
Meanwhile the Bush gang is spending all our resources in Iraq. Go figure?

[Lefty]

lbj, do those dumbasses and you really think we can deport over 20 million illegals? Btw, most of the illegals are Mexican and are not the terrorists. We are winning in Iraq against the real terrorists, si you and those lib talking heads go figure.

[Light]

Tom said:Christians are helping them to be free, which is not a word you will find in the koran.

I don't think Christians who kill are practicing Christianity in Iraq,just as Muslims who kill are not practicing Islam. Neither Jesus nor Mohammad condoned killing. In both cases,they are trying to justify hideous acts against God,with God.

[Lefty]

light, your light must be hiding under a bushel.

[kingfin66]

Kreed.......BS!


I am so sick of hearing this completely ignorant accusation I could barf.
WE have created not one single terrorist and anyone who tells you differently is an idiot.
There is no way this is our fault - it the fact that islam, which is more of an infection than a religion, has spawned a whole generation of sub-humans who have no morality, no ties to any God, only allah, who is the devil himself. They are fighting a holy war with us and our leaders just don't get it.
There will never be, can never be peace with the islamic menace. We either destroy it or it will destroy us.
Tony Blair went out of his way this morning to say that the bvast majority of islamic people are decent people who abhor this vbiolence. Tony, BS to you too.
The vast majority of islamics support, tolerate, or participate in violence.
they are spreading, colonizing Euorpe, and they must be stoped.
Blair and Bush both said they will be found and brought to justice. BS.
Let them be found and blown to hell, with their families, their friends, their neighbors.
G8 so-called world leaders had a lot of speeches today, lots of flags flying at half staff. But where is only acceptable response? Missile silos opening up, ships altering course at sea, tanks fueling up. Rifles being handed out.
The correct response to every sinlge act ot terrorism to pick a random islamioc city and obliterate it. Bombs, missiles, agent orange , napalm, re-vist the fire bombing of Dresden.
England should immediately errect interment camps and begin the process of rounding up all suspects - by profiling - and worry about sorting it out later. Ala Gitmo. The islamic world will never be fit to live amoung civilized people - and it' s high time we admitted it and did something about it.

It is almost 4 years since 9-11, and we still do not accept the fact that we are in a holy war.

Wow.

[kingfin66]

I usually don't bop into off-topic, but I agree totally Tom.

Double wow.

[boxcar]

kingfin66 wrote:

Double wow.

Wanna try for a triple, since I'm also essentially in agreement with Tom?

Boxcar

[kenwoodallpromos]

"As we have described earlier, there are many practical obstacles in the establishing Allah's rule on earth, such as the power of state, the social system and traditions and, in general, the whole human environment. Islam uses force only to remove these obstacles so that there may not remain any wall between Islam and individual human beings, and so that it may address their hearts and minds after releasing them from these material obstacles, and then leave them free to choose to accept or reject it."
This is for the "Americanized, peaceful" Muslims in the USA to read.
How the hell did the USA mess with the Muslims in Spain? Sudan, where OBL brought them in? in Indonesia? Our military is no longer in Saudi Arabia, so why the hell don't alqueida stop their violence there?
Saying we are causing terrorists is like saying any of you that have sex and have children are causing child molesters and rapists to commit crimes- it is just a weak excuse.
All religions want converts and to spread their message, but modern christians do not come into a country, go to flight school, overstay their visas, get drunk in strip clubs, condem us for having low morals and then fly planes into buildings so they can s**** 17 virgins in heaven.
S**** them.
The first Twin Towers attacks in 1993 were planned shortly after we saved OBL and the Taliban's a** in Afghanistan.

[toetoe]

Kreed,

My only disagreement is regarding INVITING TERRORISM. Isn't that like inviting a car thief to kill a cop by pulling him over? I think the Old Testament and the Koran are very similar. The huge, 1-to-9, lone-speed, overarching difference? The very few Christians I know who follow the O.T.,literally and slavishly, I consider menaces to society. Somebody please tell me the Musselmanic equivalent of these zealots are few and far between. I just don't believe it. Of course, Christianity indoctrinates, doing harm, but no comparison, in my view.

In terms of the war, we can't keep treating these freakazoids, who have no state, no status we can easily recognize, locked up. It's a huge millstone around our neck.

Two more things: All but 3 or 4 of the WTC 'jackoffs, I mean 'jackers, were Saudis. Any satisfaction for us in the 4 years since? I don't think so. Also, remember the basketballer Abdur Shareef Rahim? Okay, he went to UC Berkeley and, during his Cal career, his mentor, some imam on campus, a prof. or something, was openly supporting the fatwa against Salman Rushdie. So should we run this s%#twad out of town on a rail? No, dear, that wouldn't be 'diverse' enough for our society. Now the fatwa is off. Gee, should Rushdie now send a thank-you note to the fatwa goombah? Thank you SO much, I'll be so good now, and don't worry about the years that I felt like a punk under house arrest. My point? This is crap that always goes on in the old country, y'know, like on Mission Impossible. When did we determine it's okay for that crap to infiltrate Berkeley, London, wherever, with nary a peep from our leaders? By the way, where ARE the leaders these days, the real ones?

[Kreed]

I'm glad things have cooled but I still think Iraq is one thing & terrorism is
another & the twain don't really meet. In Iraq WE are making terrorists, just
by being their INVADERS & not LIBERATORS. Yeah, I agree with whoever said
that the real crazies reside in Pakistan --- right along side BL himself. anyways,
NOW we MUST use our brains & brawn & change events in IRAQ quickly & then
get The F out. my thoughts on Friday, 7/8, a playing hooky day.

[Kreed]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/animegirle/surfingonarocket.jpg

Its time to leave this planet?

[PaceAdvantage]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/animegirle/surfingonarocket.jpg

Its time to leave this planet?


Godspeed!

[Bobby]

I agree with obliteriting and most of what TOM said.

However, what have we really accomplished over in IRAQ? A new govt and thats it. Insurgency is not in its "last throes." Years of work is still left to do for a PEOPLE THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN FREE. These people are ruled by their religion and religion only. What a democratic president is gonna tell them will have little influence if the religous leaders holler jihad all the time. just food for thought.

[Lefty]

kreed, bobby, i have seen many interviews with soldiers in Iraq and we are winning. bobby, only thing we accomplished is a democracy? Don't you realize it's never been done before? It's a great lifetime accomplisherment and Iraq is pivotal in the middle east. In the last couple months almost a 1000 terrorists have been cght. You guys need to quit listening to the doom and gloom of the dems and their willing allies,i.e.the mainstream media.

[so.cal.fan]

If the Muslim world does not police itself and rid the world of these "diseases" that have been terrorising the world for decades, the non-islamic countries of the world will do it for them.
Wake up ISLAM! You are not endearing yourselves to anyone, you do not command ANY RESPECT from decent people on this planet when you provide enviornments that breed killers and the worst thing you are doing is insuring your people lives of poverty, hopelessness and misery.
Your young people (and old people) feel humiliated by the rest of the world....and instead of denoucing these barbaric methods of "getting even" you continue to foster them....why not try to join the rest of the world and reform your "religion" that keeps you all back in the 7th century?

:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :mad: :(

[kenwoodallpromos]

"Immediately after the blasts detectives found traces of RDX explosive, a key component used in the Madrid train bombing.


The slaughter by a suspected "sleeper" gang was timed to coincide with the G8 summit in Gleneagles. But sombre Tony Blair, who flew back to London as soon as the grim news came in, declared Britain would remain unbowed."

The OBL bombings are only about power and politics, not religion.
RDX is what Hussein had, took 32 tons of without UN permission, and trucked out of Iraq prior to this last invasion. (I have previous posts on the subjects.)
Whether it is tied by DNA or whatever to Iraq, that is ther only possible place it came from. Sold to Hussein by Russia.

[kenwoodallpromos]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6323933/

[kingfin66]

kingfin66 wrote:

Double wow.

Wanna try for a triple, since I'm also essentially in agreement with Tom?

Boxcar

Yep, triple wow it is.

[so.cal.fan]

Tom has NEVER been accused of being "politically correct" he just calls 'em as he sees him.
While most of us share his anger and frustration.......there just has to be an answer without wiping out half the world......however......if these type of attacks start happening again in our country....I'm sure there will be millions of people calling for some of the things Tom suggests.
I pray the Muslim world will wake up and save themselves....because in the end....they will lose everything.....and at a terrible cost to the rest of us. :(

[ljb]

lbj, do those dumbasses and you really think we can deport over 20 million illegals? Btw, most of the illegals are Mexican and are not the terrorists. We are winning in Iraq against the real terrorists, si you and those lib talking heads go figure.
Lefty,
I don't recall me saying we should deport anybody, I was just relaying something I saw on tv. Btw, deporting illegals will never fly in this country, too many republicans getting rich off their sweat. How many dead Americans since you rightys started saying "we are winning in Iraq"?

[ljb]

A couple of things you rightys seem to be overlooking here. Every cloud has a silver lining. The bombing in London gave big oil an excuse to gouge the public again and Bushco now has another excuse for invading the oil producing nation of his choice.

[JustRalph]

A couple of things you rightys seem to be overlooking here. Every cloud has a silver lining. The bombing in London gave big oil an excuse to gouge the public again and Bushco now has another excuse for invading the oil producing nation of his choice.

You spout the same old stupid crap............... the Dems are accused of being the party without original idea's or thoughts...........you are the poster boy for that line of thought............

[ljb]

just,
I don't recall saying that before. On the other hand I do recall the rightys responding to facts they disagree with by using personal attacks. hmmmm ?

[kenwoodallpromos]

I understand these are kids taught violence in moaques around the world- just like the many links at the Alameda mosque promotes violence.
You have to teach the kids right= begbore they reach pubertym and are brainwashed about the 17 virgins!

[kenwoodallpromos]

"Islam Teaches...


On Paradise:

Those who kill or are killed by unbelievers will return to the garden of Paradise (Koran 9:111), where they will enjoy many lustful pleasures - sex with virgins, pleasant food and drink, etc.:

"They shall recline on jeweled couches face to face, and there shall wait on them immortal youths with bowls and ewers and a cup of purest wine... with fruits of their own choice and flesh of fowls that they relish. And theirs shall be the dark-eyes houris (celestial virgins), chaste as hidden pearls: a guerdon for their deeds." (Koran 56:15)
"pure beautiful ones... goodly things, beautiful ones, pure ones confined to the pavilions that man has not touched them before..." (Koran 56:54, 67-71)"
It does not define "many but probably a lot!

[ljb]

Ken,
If you are going to be quoting the Koran, perhaps you could start a new thread with Boxcar. He likes to use selected quotes from the Bible. Nothing could be more boring then having two dudes selecting quotes that support their personal theories debating. :(

[46zilzal]

"
Those who kill or are killed by unbelievers will return to the garden of Paradise (Koran 9:111), where they will enjoy many lustful pleasures - sex with virgins, pleasant food and drink, etc.:

experienced women are MUCH MUCH better...no hang ups, interested, passionate, not afraid...they have it all wrong

[RXB]

Too funny. They rail about the wayward lifestyles of Westerners, and go on about the sanctity of the Quran. Yet here I find out that, in fact, their holy book sells good old fashioned drinking and screwing as the paradisial rewards.

Religion = f***ed in the head.

[JustRalph]

experienced women are MUCH MUCH better...no hang ups, interested, passionate, not afraid...they have it all wrong

Thanks for the tip there Doc..........master of the friggin obvious as usual.......

[46zilzal]

Thanks for the tip there Doc..........master of the friggin obvious as usual.......
OBVIOUS as in what the hell are we doing blowing up two third world countries when the enemy isn't there?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/front/

[GameTheory]

Isn't it just as accurate to say that the terrorists are training us, and creating more resistance to their terrorism? Doesn't it work both ways?

[Lefty]

lbj, and 46, it's hard to get the idea that you're on our side, very hard.






lbj, you spouted off about the talking heads saying we should deport all illegals. You never bothered to say you didn't agree with that stupid line of thght. Yes, all us republicans getting rich and there are no rich dems, right? You can't win with you libs, when we want to cut off the goodies to uninspire illegals from coming you call us racists and meanwhile you say we're getting rich off of them. You're a riot sc's, a riot!

Yes, G.W. has a factory in texas where he manufactures the terrorists as he needs them to boost oil prices.

[46zilzal]

lbj, and 46, it's hard to get the idea that you're on our side, very hard.

.
I'm on NOBODY'S side...just an observer

[schweitz]

I'm on NOBODY'S side..

That pretty much explains all anybody needs to know about you.

[Lefty]

46, sc. Watch your head. The terrorists are after you and you're on nobody's side? How in hell is that even possible?

[Lefty]

46,sc, i submit that you are not impartial,at all. You have never criticised the terrorists but have been most critical of Bush and our govt. Ergo, you are a friggin terrorist sympathizer. The facts speak.

[46zilzal]

46,sc, i submit that you are not impartial,at all. You have never criticised the terrorists but have been most critical of Bush and our govt. Ergo, you are a friggin terrorist sympathizer. The facts speak.
I was waiting for the PAT necon reponse: "Yur either with us or the TRRISTS" right out of my favorite book Rampton and Stauber's BANANA REPUBLICANS as a matter of fact that is what is on the cover..

[Lefty]

46sc, your outrage or gotcha ploy doesn't play. Your posts need no clarification. You are not neutral. You don't criticize anyone but our govt. You are trying to say you're impartial but you clearly are in sympathy with the terrorists. It's pig simple! And I don't give a damn what your lib books say. When they're cutting off your head you try abd convince these murderous thugs that you are neutral!

[46zilzal]

P-A-R-A-N-O-I-A.........

I criticize the rutabaga because he quite simply gives me LOTS to criticize ...he is an idiot

[Steve 'StatMan']

I'm on NOBODY'S side...just an observer

So, Zilly, do you spend as much time on Islamic chatrooms yanking their chains and generally pissing off the sympathizers on the other side of the terrorism issue as you do vs. the folks on this forum?

Will it take riding on an exploding double-decker bus or subway train to clarify things for you?

[46zilzal]

So, Zilly, do you spend as much time on Islamic chatrooms yanking their chains and generally pissing off the sympathizers on the other side of the terrorism issue as you do vs. the folks on this forum?


remaining neutral pisses folks off? well too bad...wouldn't even know an Islamic chat room if I came across one.

when one blows up here let me know will you?

[Steve 'StatMan']

remaining neutral pisses folks off?

If you're neutral, you sure don't act like it.

If a bomb goes off here (wherever 'here' is for you) will it even matter to you, unless you happen to be at the site of the carnage, or in the carnage itself?

[Lefty]

If you think you can remain neutral in this war then you 46sc, are the idiot.
Paranoia? Tell that to the victims and survivors of 9-11. Tell that to the folks in Madrid. Tell that to the folks in London.
But your posts have clearly shown you are anything but neutral, so give up the lie.

[so.cal.fan]

Hey, where's Tom?
Tom??? Did you go join the Army?
You were really p*ss*d off......... :eek:

[46zilzal]

If a bomb goes off here (wherever 'here' is for you) will it even matter to you, unless you happen to be at the site of the carnage, or in the carnage itself?
I will be there to patch 'em up and help medically...people do things and that is their business, NOT MINE.....wu wei, wu wei

[JustRalph]

How in the hell can you describe yourself as neutral? It is a pretty simple choice........you are either with the scum bags who kill innocent people or you are against them.........which is it?

[46zilzal]

How in the hell can you describe yourself as neutral? It is a pretty simple choice........you are either with the scum bags who kill innocent people or you are against them.........which is it?
kind of like being forced to answer: Do you like yogurt or not?

[Lefty]

46sc, your analagy is as silly as your so-called neutrality.
I like Yogurt. Why is that a hard question to answer?

[Steve 'StatMan']

kind of like being forced to answer: Do you like yogurt or not?

I could see where you might think it's a choice between a kick in the shin or a poke in the eye. But yea or nay on Yogurt? If you feel this issue is like yogurt to you, and you are 'neutral' then why do you want to argue about this and other related issues so much?

And you asked why you're being 'neutral' would piss some people off. :bang:

[46zilzal]

46sc, your analagy is as silly as your so-called neutrality.
I like Yogurt. Why is that a hard question to answer?
is this a court of law???

MUST I? don't think I will

[46zilzal]

I could see where you might think it's a choice between a kick in the shin or a poke in the eye. But yea or nay on Yogurt? If you feel this issue is like yogurt to you, and you are 'neutral' then why do you want to argue about this and other related issues so much?



I just love to get the ANGRIES angrier...I dont give a crap about this topic

what does the BTW stand for??

[Steve 'StatMan']

I just love to get the ANGRIES angrier...I dont give a crap about this topic

So I was right to have had you on ignore then, and as I suspected, foolish of me to waste any time with you in conversation. Goodbye.

(Had to take you off 'ignore' in order to do the quotes.)

[toetoe]

Isn't it possible the guy is neutral? And even while not condoning barbarism? God knows, there's plenty of it all over the place. I think we all despise it. But don't forget --- for better or for worse, we have the burden of due process, taking prisoners, yadda yadda ... Can't we accidentally let some Death Row inmates escape, hijack a plane (full of fuel of course), fly it into the shrine at Qom or Mecca or wherever, miraculously avoiding our "security" forces, etc.? Of course I'm joking, but if we want to live like that, we'll be losing something so good, and with no turning back. Any a**h*** can do tremendous damage in a public place. It's just easier to do MEGA-damage these days, I guess because of miniaturization. The typical mindset of the idiots hasn't changed, it's just that the tools are much more efficient. And don't forget that the press play right into their hands. Our own press is bad enough, but Al Jazeera --- what purpose do they serve? Our Constitution doesn't proscribe bombing Al Jazeera out of existence, does it? Of course, warn them first, evacuate, blah blah blah ...

[hcap]

Sec,We're spending all our resources on an experiment in democracy while those responsible for 911 are left to plot and plan in Pakistan or Iran where we are prohibited from entering. But put the flag up, talk tough, and keep the decades fight in Iraq up and let that reasure you that's stopping incidents like what occurred in London.
SuffIf Iraq is the answer, it was sure explained wrong. I simply don't see how it works. Killing Sunni insurgents in Iraq is going to stop an AL Queda from driving a truck full of fertilizer into the Lincoln Tunnel? Al Queda would rather face an M-1 Abrahams Tank than a toll booth in NYC? Sorry, I understand anyone's immediatte reaction....but I just don't see Iraq furthering that goal.
So much for the "flypaper" theory of 21st century war. The failure in logic is that there are a limited number of terrorists, and that we would bring 'em all together in Iraq and smack 'em with our super duper flyswatter. A flyswatter by the way that is like hitting a swarm of mosquitos witha' shotgun.

OOps we killed 10's of thousands of innocent civilians in the process.
Never mind, the Iraqi friends and relatives of the innocents UNDERSTAND that our brilliant "flypaper" strategy is using them for bait.

So what if "we rather fight them over there than here" PR slogan is ignores that they are "OVER THERE". Plays real well in Iraq.

Yeah, PR that is designed to placate the uncritical thinkers over here.

Yeah, so what that terrorism around the world has increased dramatically since Iraq-not decreased. So what that the "flypapper" justification is the 7th back peddling excuse for a failed war and foreign policy.

So what that on the eve of the allied invasion, a classified report by the National Intelligence Council, the intelligence community's center for strategic thinking, "predicted that an American-led invasion of Iraq would increase support for political Islam and WOULD RESULT IN A DEEPLY DIVIDED IRAQI SOCIETY prone to violent internal conflict,"?

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040928/ZNYT03/409280452

So what that that the "rutabaga" as 46 so aptly described our feeaarrless leeDUR, was determined to be the bull in da china shop. So what that Powell warned him that if ya break it ya own it.?

So what that shortly after the invasion of Iraq, Zbigniew Brzezinski, pointed out in the journal National Interest that America's control over the Middle East "gives it indirect but politically critical leverage on the European and Asian economies that are also dependent on energy exports from the region."

So what that you lemmings of the right have bought into the faux noos vision of reality, and not the geopolitical realpolitik of if the United States can maintain CONTROL OVER IRAQ, with the world's second largest known oil reserves, in the HEART OF THE WORLD's MAJOR ENERGY SUPPLIES, that it will enhance its strategic power and influence over its major rivals in the tripolar world that has been taking shape for the past 30 years U.S.-dominated North America, Europe, and Northeast Asia, linked to South and Southeast Asia economies.??

So what that the neoconartists have made a slight boo-boo and that what they thought would be a cakewalk into petro wish, wet- dreamland, totally, as the war preznit would say "missunderestimated" the messiness of the cakewalk?

So what that....
The list goes on and on

[ljb]

Hcap,
Your post has so much sound logic, you can expect a barrage of personal attacks by the rightys. Ah, the sheep, they are following nicely don't you think?

[Buckeye]

"Attact attack, toujours attack!"

:)

[so.cal.fan]

<The Muslim village has been derelict in condemning the madness of jihadist attacks. When Salman Rushdie wrote a controversial novel involving the prophet Muhammad, he was sentenced to death by the leader of Iran. To this day - to this day - no major Muslim cleric or religious body has ever issued a fatwa condemning Osama bin Laden>.

This is part of Tom Friedman's latest column from the New York Times.
Chris Matthews had this on Hardball last night.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/08/opinion/08friedman.html?n=Top%2fOpinion%2fEditorials%20and %20Op%2dEd%2fOp%2dEd%2fColumnists%2fThomas%20L%20F riedman&pagewanted=print

[Secretariat]

So what if "we rather fight them over there than here" PR slogan is ignores that they are "OVER THERE". Plays real well in Iraq.

Yeah, PR that is designed to placate the uncritical thinkers over here.



Hcap,

Your "so what" post states it well.

This notion that "we'd rather fight them over there than here" implies that if we somehow fight the terrorists in Iraq we are "safe" from having to fight them here. Obviously, the Brits can't buy into that anymore since they are fighting them "over there", and were specitcially targeted in the capitol of their nation for doing so. I guess the enemy doesn't agree with that logic and will strike where it will regardless if we are fighting in Iraq.

But they are in the "last throes" over there as Cheney said I forgot, and we're only decades away from resolution which MCain stated is a positive thing. And we're assured that it is only a matter of time before we are hit again, but as Bush and Rummy said:

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - Bush, 3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him." - Bush , responding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts,
3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)

"As I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run. I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban. But once we set out the policy and started executing the plan, he became -- we shoved him out more and more on the margins. He has no place to train his al Qaeda killers anymore." - George W. Bush, March 13, 2002

"bin Laden’s threat had been neutralized. Our goal was to stop terrorism to the extent that we could. Enough pressure has been applied to al-Qaeda leaders to make them so busy surviving and moving from place to place that they no longer have time to plot terrorist attacks." - Donald Rumsfeld, April 8, 2002


The March 13, 2002 in particular strikes me as particluarly ironic since Rummy stated that Iraq has become the new terrorist training ground for Al Quada. kind of flies in the face of "we shoved him out more and more on the margins. He has no place to train his al Qaeda killers anymore."

As long as we pursue this global democracy Bush doctrine rather than addressing the perpetrators of 911 we will continue to have more Londons, Madrids, and 911's. And no matter how many troops we put into Iraq, not one part of it is going to stop incidents that occurred in London this week. If you want to continue to beleive that Lefty, feel free, just don't ask a Londoner to back you up that the British presence in Iraq is making him more secure when he takes the tube there.

[Buckeye]

Right you are SC RF,

the Koran says, if you kill innocents you will go to hell.

NOT paradise.

These nitwits need to be sent where they belong.

Any questions from the left?

Didn't think so.

[Buckeye]

You know what SEC

we are ready to deal with it.

Baby Kerry was rejected.

By the American People.

Not by you.

[Buckeye]

Anyway,

Who do you like in SUF Race 1?

[Buckeye]

I'll take the six.

[Light]

Right you are SC RF,

the Koran says, if you kill innocents you will go to hell.

NOT paradise.

These nitwits need to be sent where they belong.

Any questions from the left?

Didn't think so.

What does the Bible say about killing?

[Buckeye]

it says kill or be killed clown.

[Buckeye]

You don't seem to know too much about geo-politics.

Let's just say, you want the USA to go down.

Is that about correct Light?

[Buckeye]

Let me clue you in though,

It ain't gonna happen.

Ok?

Now quote or refer to all the religious references you want.

[Lefty]

Lightunderabushel, Don't you blve in self defense? What if we hadn't gotten into WW11?
When will you libs understand a country has a right to go to war to defend itself? We were attacked many times before we went to war. We finally got a Pres who said enough is enough. The Dems voted with him. Now all the meely mouths doing nothing but bolstering the hopes of the enemy. Like it or not, we ARE in Iraq. We are in a war for our very lives and freedoms. Why not unify instead of your constant efforts to critcise and divide/ I'm talking to all libs.
Do you concur with the NY Times that Zarquawi is a Jordanian fighter?
How nuts is that? He's a terrorist, a beheader of innocents. He gets his knife to your throat he will cut your head off too.
Now I hear the Dems blabbering about homeland security even as i write this: They are the ones that are against the patriot act. They always want it both ways.
G.W. had it right. You're with us or against us.
Too many in our own country seem to be against us. Very sad.

[Light]

You're a funny guy Buckeye. What side are you on? If asking about the Bible means I want the U.S. to go down,does that make Bush an anarchist?

[Tom]

46, sc. Watch your head. The terrorists are after you and you're on nobody's side? How in hell is that even possible?

He is dumber than dirt, that's how. Fortunatley, people like him - oblivious to the real world - are often it's vitims. Godspeed to this jerk.

And Ljb....I "Ignored " you becasue you post nothing of any relevence or truth, but I still get stuck seeing some of your comments when you get quoted (although quoting YOU is much like a cat coughing up a hairball, only hairballs serve some purpose) so your comment about the silver lining from the London bombing paionts you as the real, heartless, worthless POS that you are. That comment was totally unacceptable and I am asking PA not only delete, it but delete you from this forum. You are not fit to converse wtih human beings.
Please, go ride a subway somewhere, you turd.

[NoDayJob]

And Ljb....I "Ignored " you becasue you post nothing of any relevence or truth, but I still get stuck seeing some of your comments when you get quoted (although quoting YOU is much like a cat coughing up a hairball, only hairballs serve some purpose) so your comment about the silver lining from the London bombing paionts you as the real, heartless, worthless POS that you are. That comment was totally unacceptable and I am asking PA not only delete, it but delete you from this forum. You are not fit to converse wtih human beings.
Please, go ride a subway somewhere, you turd.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:D Please remember what Mario Savio stood for before castigating our learned bud. I think it was FREE SPEECH, (but only when Mario was speaking). :D

NDJ

[hcap]

so.cal.fanThe Muslim village has been derelict in condemning the madness of jihadist attacks. When Salman Rushdie wrote a controversial novel involving the prophet Muhammad, he was sentenced to death by the leader of Iran. To this day - to this day - no major Muslim cleric or religious body has ever issued a fatwa condemning Osama bin LadenFriedman's latest column from the New York Times doesn't mention he is not a bonafide ME expert. Chris Matthews is not the bastion of truth, regardless of what you want to believe.

Friedman is full of it.
London
1-Muslims condemn blasts, fear backlash
LONDON: Muslims across Britain prayed yesterday for the victims of the London bombings blamed on radical Islamists, but many feared an anti-Muslim backlash after a deluge of abusive messages.

USA
2-Muslims denounce bombings, brace for backlash
By WAYNE PARRY
The Associated Press
NEWARK: Muslims across the United States are denouncing the bombing of London's transit system and bracing themselves for a renewed wave of harassment that has continued since the Sept. 11 attacks.

From http://www.juancole.com/

Friedman said "To this day - to this day - no major Muslim cleric or religious body has ever issued a fatwa condemning Osama bin Laden."

A "fatwa" is simply a considered opinion of a Muslim jurisconsult. Such opinions are numerous. First of all, almost all the major Shiite Grand Ayatollahs have condemned Bin Laden and al-Qaeda. You could say that is easy, since Shiites don't generally like Wahhabis. But they are the leaders of 120 million Muslims (some ten percent of the 1.2 billion). So that is one.

Ayatollah Muhammad Husain Fadlallah of Lebanon condemns Osama Bin Laden.
Grand Imam of Al-Azhar seminary, Shaikh Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi, condemns Osamah Bin Laden.

And: So then what about the Sunni world? The leading moral authority for Sunnis is the rector or Grand Imam of the al-Azhar Seminary/ University in Cairo, Egypt. Al-Azhar is perhaps the world's oldest continuous university and has been since the time of Saladin a major center of Sunni religious authority. The current incumbent is Shaikh Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi. So what about Tantawi and Bin Laden.

There's more. Click on the link. I also find it insulting that you and others are characterizing Islam in entirety as a hateful religion.

Tom aka Slim Pickens And Ljb..I am asking PA not only delete, it but delete you from this forum. You are not fit to converse wtih human beings.
Please, go ride a subway somewhere, you turd.Your a piece of shit of the worst kind. I know you ignore me as well as ljb. But I sure hope someone quotes me so you know what I think. Shove that nookular megatonage you wanted to destroy Fallugeh with and the same you wanted to obliterate other human beings, up your ass.

[NoDayJob]

Washington that is. Too bad our leaders(?) haven't been smart enough to follow his advice for over 100 years, "No Foreign Entanglements." However, we are now in a war for our very survival and I want us to win it, anyway we can, including WMD. Scrue the UN and the rest of the da leaders of the world. No more Koreas or Viet Nams. Bin der, dun dat, roat da book, sold da tee shurts and kaps. Kill dem before dey do us.

NDJ

[ElKabong]

<The Muslim village has been derelict in condemning the madness of jihadist attacks. When Salman Rushdie wrote a controversial novel involving the prophet Muhammad, he was sentenced to death by the leader of Iran. To this day - to this day - no major Muslim cleric or religious body has ever issued a fatwa condemning Osama bin Laden>.

This is part of Tom Friedman's latest column from the New York Times.
Chris Matthews had this on Hardball last night.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/08/opinion/08friedman.html?n=Top%2fOpinion%2fEditorials%20and %20Op%2dEd%2fOp%2dEd%2fColumnists%2fThomas%20L%20F riedman&pagewanted=print


His title of the piece says a lot. "If It's a Muslim Problem, It Needs a Muslim Solution".

Well put, and to the point.

[NoDayJob]

There's more. Click on the link. I also find it insulting that you and others are characterizing Islam in entirety as a hateful religion.

Tom aka Slim PickensYour a piece of shit of the worst kind. I know you ignore me as well as ljb. But I sure hope someone quotes me so you know what I think. Shove that nookular megatonage you wanted to destroy Fallugeh with and the same you wanted to obliterate other human beings, up your ass.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Spell check please or (sic): your? you're---- nookular? nuclear

Prechter talked about "polarization" back in 1978--- this discussion(?) is a classic example. Luv dis stuff. Almost as good as de 'ol HPU. Ha, ha.

NDJ

[so.cal.fan]

Actually, hcap....I believe Tom Friedman IS an expert on the middle east.
Have you read his book, The World is Flat?
You're pretty far to the left if you can't believe Tom Friedman and Chris Matthews....they are hardly neo-cons, now, are they?
The far left doesn't like Friedman, because he tells the truth about Communism, Socialism and Islam......the FACT that these types of goverments are certain to produce one thing.....POVERTY. and they are not acceptable in a globalized world.

[so.cal.fan]

Columnist Biography: Thomas L. Friedman
Thomas L. Friedman won the 2002 Pulitzer Prize for commentary, his third Pulitzer for The New York Times. He became the paper's foreign-affairs columnist in 1995. Previously, he served as chief economic correspondent in the Washington bureau and before that he was the chief White House correspondent. In 2005, Mr. Friedman was elected as a member of the Pulitzer Prize Board.

Mr. Friedman joined The Times in 1981 and was appointed Beirut bureau chief in 1982. In 1984 Mr. Friedman was transferred from Beirut to Jerusalem, where he served as Israel bureau chief until 1988. Mr. Friedman was awarded the 1983 Pulitzer Prize for international reporting (from Lebanon) and the 1988 Pulitzer Prize for international reporting (from Israel).

Mr. Friedman's latest book, "The World Is Flat: A Brief History of the Twenty-first Century," will be released in April 2005. His book, "From Beirut to Jerusalem" (1989), won the National Book Award for non-fiction in 1989 and "The Lexus and the Olive Tree" (2000) won the 2000 Overseas Press Club award for best nonfiction book on foreign policy and has been published in 27 languages. Mr. Friedman also wrote "Longitudes and Attitudes: The World in the Age of Terrorism" (2002) and the text accompanying Micha Bar-Am's book, "Israel: A Photobiography."

Born in Minneapolis on July 20, 1953, Mr. Friedman received a B.A. degree in Mediterranean studies from Brandeis University in 1975. In 1978 he received a Master of Philosophy degree in Modern Middle East studies from Oxford. Mr. Friedman is married and has two daughters.

[hcap]

I quoted Juan Cole refuting Friedmans claim.

He is factually wrong about Islam condemming Bin Laden.
Cole is an expert.

Mathews is not an expert Only a less anoying than FOX, sometimes fair tv talking head. I do watch him sometimes
I don't like Friedman, because he is wrong.
Communism, Socialism and Islam? Meaningless round up

African countries are some of the poorest. Poverty is more complex than ideology. History plays its part. Btw, I do agree however that "If It's a Muslim Problem, It Needs a Muslim Solution". I do think that our past and present ME policies have interfered with that occuring.

The fact is the west, particulary the brits carved up the mid east and DREW the map of the new borders, at the end of the 19th century into the early part of the 20th.

An abbreviated timeline...

1-CIA intervention in Iran, way back in 1953.
Iran had a prime minister named Mohamed Mossadegh. A secular middle-class politician who had the audacity to nationalize Iranian oil.

2-Great Britain and the U.S. were quite unhappy about this and they backed a military coup to arrest Mossadegh and restore the shah to his throne. From then on, the shah's Iran became a close ally of the United States.

3-Shah Reza Pahlevi's regime was authoritarian and very repressive
The shah's regime was overthrown by a popular uprising in 1979 and the shah went into exile Overthrown not by secular nationalists but Islamic militants led by the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.An Islamic republic was proclaimed.Within a year, Iranian militants seized the U.S. embassy and kept those they found there prisoners for 444 days.

4-Iran proclaimed the U.S. the Great Satan, and the U.S. in turn now considered Iran a total enemy.

5-The U.S. decided the best way to handle the Iranians was to encourage the president of Iraq, Saddam Hussein to invade Iran, which he did in 1980. In 1983, Pres. Reagan sent Donald Rumsfeld as a special envoy to meet Saddam Hussein, to encourage him in his war efforts To offer him direct and indirect forms of assistance (including some elements of biological warfare), to remove Iraq from the U.S. list of states aiding terrorist groups, and in general to coddle Saddam.

6-The Iran-Iraq war lasted eight years, was extremely costly to both sides in both casualties and money, and finally ended in exhaustion, with the troops back at the starting-point. It was a military truce Saddam Hussein, as we know, found it difficult to repay the debts he had contracted in order to conduct this war, especially Iraq's large debts to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.
He decided to cancel the debts and satisfy long-standing nationalist claims in one fell swoop by invading Kuwait in 1990.

7-The U.S. turned against Saddam Hussein, leading a U.N.-sanctioned coalition to oust Iraq from Kuwait with, among other things, the tacit support of Iran. The war ended with various kinds of double crosses. Saddam had sent much of his air force to Iran to keep it safe from U.S. bombing. After the war ended, Iran refused to return the planes.

8-Sanctions reduce Iraq further into poverty. Saddam thrives but ordinary Iraqis suffer

9-WMD's are found in Iraq
OOPS my mistake, but you know the rest of the sordid tale

[RXB]

Not to mention the fact that the CIA supported/trained/funded a lot of these Islamic extremists when it suited the specific purposes of American foreign policy (fighting the Russians in Afghanistan). Funny how this stuff eventually bites you in the tail.

[hcap]

so.cal.fan, I guess he could be called an expert. His credentials are in order
I regret saying he was not qualified.

But Cole has more weight.
More importantly he has refuted Friedman on many occassions with facts.
What is your response to what Cole said?? That Islam has condemned Bin laden?

Juan Cole: Professional History

# 1975 B.A. History and Literature of Religions, Northwestern University
# 1978 M.A. Arabic Studies/History, American University in Cairo
# 1984 Ph.D. Islamic Studies, University of California Los Angeles
# 1984-1990 Assistant Professor of History, University of Michigan
# 1990-1995 Associate Professor of History, University of Michigan
# 1992-1995 Director, Center for Middle Eastern and North African Studies, University of Michigan
# 1995- Professor of History, University of Michigan


Scholastic Awards and Grants ; Hudson Research Professorship, Winter, 2003 ; Award for Research in Turkey, May, 1999, International Institute, U-M ; Research Excellence Award, College of LSA, U-M, August, 1997 ; OVPR and LSA Faculty Assistance Fund Grants, June, 1995 ; LSA Faculty Assistance Fund Grant, March 1994 ; Rackham Research Partnership, 1992-93 ; National Endowment for the Humanities, Jan.-June, 1991 ; Office of the Vice-President for Research, U-M (Pakistan), Summer 1990 ; Horace H. Rackham Faculty Grant, Egypt, Summer 1988 ; SSRC/ACLS Post-Doctoral Award, England, Summer 1986 ; Fulbright-Hays Islamic Civilization Postdoctoral Award, Egypt, 1985-86 ; SSRC/ACLS Doctoral Fellowship, Pakistan, India, UK, 1981-83 ; Fulbright-Hays Doctoral Fellowship, India, 1982

[ljb]

He is dumber than dirt, that's how. Fortunatley, people like him - oblivious to the real world - are often it's vitims. Godspeed to this jerk.

And Ljb....I "Ignored " you becasue you post nothing of any relevence or truth, but I still get stuck seeing some of your comments when you get quoted (although quoting YOU is much like a cat coughing up a hairball, only hairballs serve some purpose) so your comment about the silver lining from the London bombing paionts you as the real, heartless, worthless POS that you are. That comment was totally unacceptable and I am asking PA not only delete, it but delete you from this forum. You are not fit to converse wtih human beings.
Please, go ride a subway somewhere, you turd.
Tom, Glad to see you are back to your name calling form. Sad to here you are choosing to remain IGNORE(ant). You are one of the few on this board that has a chance at seeing the light. Any how, carry on Tom, carry on.

[hcap]

Some more on Juan Cole

Recent National Service

Middle East Studies Association of North America:
o 1999-2004. Editor, The International Journal of Middle East Studies (Published by Cambridge University Press for the Middle East Studies Association of North America).
o 1998 Program Committee chair, MESA annual conference
o 1996, 1989 Officer Nominating Committee
o 1991, Book Award Committee, Middle East Studies Association
o 1988-1992 Book Review Editor, International Journal of Middle East Studies
o 1987-1989 Society for Iranian Studies: Council
Other
o 2003- Editor, H-Mideast-Politics Electronic Forum.
o 1997- Editor, H-Bahai Electronic Forum and Journal
o 1995-2000 Editorial Board, Critique
o 1993-1996 Social Science Research Council: Joint Committee on the Near and Middle East
o 1993 Columbia University, Middle East Institute: Outside Reviewer.
o 1992-1994 Eastern Consortium of Middle East Centers: Chairman, Persian-Turkish Summer Programs
o 1992-1995 American Institute of Iranian Studies: Board of Directors
o 1992 American Council of Learned Societies: Fellowship Selection Committee
o 1991- Editorial Board, Iranian Studie

[hcap]

RXBNot to mention the fact that the CIA supported/trained/funded a lot of these Islamic extremists when it suited the specific purposes of American foreign policy (fighting the Russians in Afghanistan). Funny how this stuff eventually bites you in the tail. Absolutely correct.
History has shown that the realpolitik is the driving force behind headlines designed to pacify the populace. Ony after many years do we discover geopolitical mortivations as the real history of the world.

What ever may have seemed expedient at the time in order to accomplish the "strategy" of power, wealth and control, is usually only a short term solution, as are most wars. And in the process of fooling around with longer term issues like life and death, hatred and fear, the machievelian schenanigans you originate will turn against you 20 years later.
Be careful with what you tinker. The world is more complex than the good guy, bad guy model of the universe

What goes around comes around

[JustRalph]

Tom, I suspect that HCAP is a muslim and you won't ever hear him admit to any fault of the nation that he represents...........

[Steve 'StatMan']

Not to mention the fact that the CIA supported/trained/funded a lot of these Islamic extremists when it suited the specific purposes of American foreign policy (fighting the Russians in Afghanistan). Funny how this stuff eventually bites you in the tail.

Remember, the U.S. abandoned it's financial and military support of the Taliban in Afganistan after the fall of the U.S.S.R. because it costs too much and could not longer get support on Capital Hill. The Taliban then got creamed by their fight with the new Russia, and we turned an albeit nasty friend into a very nasty and well trained enemy.

Now, regardless of the reasons, we've overthrown an evil regime and the oppressive ruling minority in Iraq and given power and support to the new Iraq and their formerly surpressed majority. If we back out of Iraq now, for the same financial and public support reasons, and they get overun again and lose their new found power and freedom, we'd be adding a whole new group of people we let down, and likely hating our guts. (Yeah, more than already do even now.)

[so.cal.fan]

I have never read anything by Mr. Cole, hcap.
I have read Tom Friedman's books and his column in the NYT.
I happen to agree with Friedman's views on the world in his new book, The World is Flat. My friends who have read it, also found the book very informative and interesting, be they conservatives or liberals.
History will prove out who is correct.....

[hcap]

NDJ,

I am nuclear about nuking innocents
The preznit is "nookular"

Now let's see....

Slim Pickens character was: Major TJ "King" Kong in Dr. Strangelove.
Ya know the cowboy who rode a H bomb down to a rooskie missle silo wailing YEEEEEEEHAAAAAA.....

Also a bit earlier in the film, "Well, boys, I reckon this is it. Nuclear (pronounced 'nookular') combat, toe-to-toe with the Rooskies."

Tom's avatar is an orangutan?
http://www.kevinyoungphotography.com/international/images/Indonesia,%20Sumatra,%20Orangutan%20in%20Wild%201, %20Bukit%20Luang,%201998.jpg

(Or could that be a self-portrait photo taken in one of those booths?)

Ironic. And maybe now we know the deep psychological trauma one most feel eating only bananas, and fantasizing about H-bombs between ones' legs. You are what you eat as the saying goes, I guess you are also what THINK is between your legs. Little pricks pretending to be BIG pricks.

Feel free to quote me on that :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Prechter?

RalphTom, I suspect that HCAP is a muslim and you won't ever hear him admit to any fault of the nation that he represents...........I condemn OSAMA, the brit bombings and also condemn our eh..colateral damage. Also stupidity and a cold conscience, eased by terms such as colateral damage I am not muslim, but have studied Sufism.

[RXB]

Remember, the U.S. abandoned it's financial and military support of the Taliban in Afganistan after the fall of the U.S.S.R. because it costs too much and could not longer get support on Capital Hill. The Taliban then got creamed by their fight with the new Russia, and we turned an albeit nasty friend into a very nasty and well trained enemy.

Now, regardless of the reasons, we've overthrown an evil regime and the oppressive ruling minority in Iraq and given power and support to the new Iraq and their formerly surpressed majority. If we back out of Iraq now, for the same financial and public support reasons, and they get overun again and lose their new found power and freedom, we'd be adding a whole new group of people we let down, and likely hating our guts. (Yeah, more than already do even now.)

Ha ha, "regardless of the reasons." Exactly. An utterly stupid war based largely on ulterior motives. I will agree that, now that it's been engaged, it's gotta be seen through. You break it, you own it.

Yes, the Taliban was abandoned-- after the damage was already done.

What is needed is not another stupid, ill-conceived foray into the Middle East. What is needed is to stop handing easy excuse avenues to the Islamists and their ridiculous ultra-left appeasers who want to blame western societies for all of their problems.

[46zilzal]

Islamic leader warned of London attack 15 months ago

LONDON (AFP) - An Islamic leader warned in a Portuguese newspaper interview 15 months ago that a London-based group, Al-Qaeda Europe, was on the verge of a major attack.

"Here in London there is a very well-organized group, which calls itself Al-Qaeda-Europe," Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammed, the Syrian head of the London-based group Al-Muhajiroun, told the Portuguese daily Publico in an interview published April 18 last year.

"I know they are on the verge of launching a big operation."

[Tom]

"Tom aka Slim PickensYour a piece of shit of the worst kind. I know you ignore me as well as ljb. But I sure hope someone quotes me so you know what I think. Shove that nookular megatonage you wanted to destroy Fallugeh with and the same you wanted to obliterate other human beings, up your ass."

Your plan worked, bub . Got your message. I am shocked! Totally shocked!
You THINK? With a brain? When did you get one? Where did you get one? Rob a funeral home? Or sharing Ljb's?

Hahaha. I printed out your comments, in large, red font, pasted them on my wall so I can start each day out reading your opinon of me. Which, coming from YOU, is badge of accomplishment. When your type hate, I must be right.
So now, a ??? to YOU.....do YOU think Ljb's sick comments after the murderous attack were out of line, or appropriate?

Rhetorical question- no reply needed. I won't see it, and I already know the answer. You sick freak.

[Tom]

And another thing.... I find it very curious that YOU are outraged that some of us blame all muslems for the jihad, yet you are always one of the first to condemn the entie military for anyhing anyone soldier says or does. Guys out there putting thier lives on the line to prtect us all, and you brush them off like they were flies, yet are outraged over reaction to murderous terror attacks.

HCAP, they don't come any lower than you. How can you look in the mirror and not throw up?

[46zilzal]

Not to mention the fact that the CIA supported/trained/funded a lot of these Islamic extremists when it suited the specific purposes of American foreign policy (fighting the Russians in Afghanistan). Funny how this stuff eventually bites you in the tail.

Expressed many ways: "You reap what you sow." Bad karma comes back to you. The gov't pisses off the rest of the world for years and is SURPRISED when they have had enough of it??

[ljb]

And another thing.... I find it very curious that YOU are outraged that some of us blame all muslems for the jihad, yet you are always one of the first to condemn the entie military for anyhing anyone soldier says or does. Guys out there putting thier lives on the line to prtect us all, and you brush them off like they were flies, yet are outraged over reaction to murderous terror attacks.

HCAP, they don't come any lower than you. How can you look in the mirror and not throw up?
Tom,
To blame all muslims for the acts of some would be the same as blaming all christians for the acts of some. What was the name of that dude that was blowing up abortion clinics and killing people ? I don't blame any soldiers for anything, they are doing their job!

[Tom]

46...do you believe in the Easter Bunny, too?
Your posts reveal just how shallow your are, deep down inside.

[NoDayJob]

Prechter? :)

Robert Prechter, is president of the Elliott Wave Theorist, and a well known practitioner of the R.N. Elliott wave theory of stock market prediction. He has written several books concerning the stock market and how people react in bull and bear markets. His other works concern socionomics, his terminology, which combines sociology and economics.

NDJ

[Steve 'StatMan']

46...do you believe in the Easter Bunny, too?
Your posts reveal just how shallow your are, deep down inside.

He's probably 'neutral' about the Easter Bunny too! :lol:

[ElKabong]

Tom,
To blame all muslims for the acts of some would be the same as blaming all christians for the acts of some. What was the name of that dude that was blowing up abortion clinics and killing people ? I don't blame any soldiers for anything, they are doing their job!

Anyone seen any local/ hometown footage of muslems walking the streets in protest of the radical element within their ranks, killing innocent women and children in London? In Dallas I sure haven't seen it.

Now put it in reverse. If Baptists/ Methodists, you name the religion, had a severe far out whacko element killing people with no reason, that church's leadership would (1) scream loud as hell to let the world know the lowly element didn't even remotely represent their beliefs, and (2) they'd likely be the first to turn in anyone plotting these murders before ever happening.

The muslems are letting this go. No shit off theri ass if Westerners get killed. Until I see them filling the streets of America in sufficient numbers protesting these bombings, I consider them as no friend of me, or my country.

Just ralph.....Agree on your assessment of Little girl. Thot the same this afternoon after reflecting on her posts, what she rails on the most, what she defends endlessly.

[ElKabong]

NDJ,



Also a bit earlier in the film, "Well, boys, I reckon this is it. Nuclear (pronounced 'nookular') combat, toe-to-toe with the Rooskies."

Tom's avatar is an orangutan?
http://www.kevinyoungphotography.com/international/images/Indonesia,%20Sumatra,%20Orangutan%20in%20Wild%201, %20Bukit%20Luang,%201998.jpg

(Or could that be a self-portrait photo taken in one of those booths?)

Ironic. .


And your avatar is of a little girl.....Go figure.

[Lefty]

46sc, your posts all convey the same message:U.S.A. is the bad guy and terrorists are victims. There's not one iota of impartiality in them.

[46zilzal]

46sc, your posts all convey the same message:U.S.A. is the bad guy and terrorists are victims. There's not one iota of impartiality in them.
You have a wonderful prejudice in finding things that don' exist

[Lefty]

46sc, i have no prejudice, but obviously you do. If you are impartial, it doesn't show in your posts. Think things through. If we lose the war against terrorism, you lose too. If we win you win. It doesn't take a genius to discern the obvious and then there's you.

[PaceAdvantage]

I hate it when threads disintegrate into a heaping pile of insults topped off by a couple of goofy pictures....

Do you guys realize you are conversing with a bunch of internet nicknames?

It's surreal to read some of this stuff at times....ya'll need to relax. Let me help you by closing this mess of a thread....