The joke continues....

[PaceAdvantage]

Is there anything more shady than state politics in NY? Read the following article while you try and forget how you personally feel about NYRA...doesn't something feel very wrong about what has gone on, and what is going to go on in the future?

Pataki Sees 'Significant NYRA Reform' in Deal (http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=28746)
The New York Racing Association will be placed under the watchful eye of a state oversight panel, Gov. George Pataki announced June 23, while the bidding process for the rights to the franchise to operate NYRA's three tracks will be accelerated. Blood-Horse (http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=28746)

It seems to me that NY State is making shady deals with the very entity it has CRITICIZED MERCILESSLY in the past for making shady deals itself, namely NYRA. There is absolutely NO CREDIBILITY left with any of the legislatures involved in this process....NONE.

It really is a damn joke!

[the little guy]

One important note in the final paragraph is that the take-out will NOT be raised as a result of this deal.

Other than that, this one sounds too complicated to make a lot of conclusions on, at least yet. And, I'm sure there's a lot more than meets the eye. Also, Pataki will probably be gone as Governor BEFORE any deal is consumated, so who knows what people will consitute this oversight board, and who will be on it after 2006.

[aaron]

In the case of NYRA the cure could end up being worse than the sickness.
One question for the NYRA,how could they run a race track without having parimutual windows open on the 3rd floor of the grandstand?As bad as the track is run we have three different entities who don't care about the product or the customer.
1-NYRA
2-Politicians
3-OTB
As horseplayers,we can only hope this works out in a positive way,but I doubt it will.Right now,we should just be happy they didn't raise rhe take out.

[Bubbles]

Keep in mind, NYRA's returned tens of millions of dollars to bettors by reducing the takeout. If that doesn't show a smidge of care for the customer, what does?

[aaron]

Bubbles-
That was done when Barry Schwartz was in charge.The new regime has done nothing positive for their cutomers and account holders.All they do is complain about Spitzer.They put in new betting machines because the company gave them a year free.They never tested the new machines to see if they worked as well as the old,which they didn't.I just don't see how saving money on new machines is going to save their franchise.They'll probably lose the savings because of the reduced handle caused by the inferior operaton of these machines.
They explain the reduced handle of Belmont Day,in part because the weather was hot and it was a beach day.Now nice weather keeps people from attending and betting on races.In the winter bad weather keeps people from attending.I guess the only time people come to the races is when the weather is 70 degrees and cloudy.
Every negative situation is met with an excuse instead of a solution.At this point I don't know if there is any solution,but the bettor deserves some reasonable explanations.

[Milleruszk]

[QUOTE=PaceAdvantage]Is there anything more shady than state politics in NY?

Yes NJ comes to mind. The politicians are so crooked in NJ that when they die they have to be screwed into the ground when they are buried. :eek:

[DerbyTrail]

What exactly are your complaints "as a bettor" with BEL, AQU and SAR? So far you're as vague and indirect as all the other phony anti-NYRA shills.

The new machines? Came with the changeover in tote vendor, and were reprogrammed after the initial hiccups within a couple weeks of installation.

What else? That's your big "complaint"?

[aaron]

Derby Trail,
The new machines have never been programmed to accept parlays.They are slower than the old machines.There are no longer "tiny tim" machines for NYRA One account holders.During the week there are no parimutual tellers on the 3rd floor of the grandstand.On weekends there are 3 or 4 teller windows open and the lines are quite long even though attendance is only 6-7000.
The clerks available are slow and probably were never trained to use the new machines.
Other little peeves,NYRA's phone betting went down and nothing was put on the screen until after I called them,this should have been done by NYRA automatically.It happened a few months ago.
Breeders Cup Dat it was virtually impossiable to bet.
I believe if you were to take a survey of old machines vs new,you find most players prefer the old.
I believe the only other track using the new machines was Dover Downs.
By the way,Derby Trail,how often do you attend the races at Aqu and Belmont.Have you ever used the new machines or dealt with the parimutual tellers?
Basically,what I am saying is the one thing NYRA changed was not a problem.Everyone will adjust to the new machines,but the money they saved by acquiring these machines will probably be lost in handle due to the slowness of the machine and the inadquate training of the tellers

[ryesteve]

The clerks available are slow and probably were never trained to use the new machines.

I believe if you were to take a survey of old machines vs new,you find most players prefer the old.
Avoid the clerks. Even with the old machines, that would've been sound advice.

I think it's natural for people to prefer what they're familiar with. I have to admit, my first exposure to the new machines was a big "WTF?!", and I ended up spending several minutes just trying to figure out how to get 3 simple bets down. Yes, I turned into one of those inept line-clogging bettors that I've always despised. But once you understand the interface, it really isn't THAT bad. Is it as simple and friendly as the old machines? Heck no... but once you get used to the interface, can you get your bets down just as fast as with the old machine? Pretty much.

[aaron]

ryesteve-
In the long run the machines will be fine,even though I believe they are slower.
Why they were never programmed to accept parlays correctly is beyond me.
For example a $2.00 wp parlay sb $8.00.The new machines cannot do this.There is also no way to do place/show parlays.I realize most players do not play parlays,but the machines at Nassau OTB are programmed to accept these type of parlays and they are feed into the track pools.Just seems odd to me that 2 parimutual systems are programmed differently.
As for the parimutual clerks,you are right,but the new system magnified their ineptness.

[saratoga guy]

Bubbles-
That was done when Barry Schwartz was in charge.The new regime has done nothing positive for their cutomers and account holders.

But you're doing what I find some other fans have been doing recently: Pointing the finger at NYRA instead of the state govt entities which were the catalyst for these changes.

I just don't see how saving money on new machines is going to save their franchise.

With the watchdogs and comptroller looking over their shoulder -- and the comptroller so budget conscious (and racing unconscious) that he objects to NYRA buying stakes trophies -- how can they possibly not move towards a money-saving deal in this climate?

Same with the Belmont Stakes prices. If a monitor looks over their shoulder and asks, "Can't you charge more for the Belmont Stakes tickets?," how do they justify avoiding that move in the current climate?

All they do is complain about Spitzer...

I would say they're not complaining enough about the AG and the comptroller. But again, in this climate it's tough for them to fight back because regardless of how absurd the claim (ex, playing for stakes trophies) if they defend themselves they are then accused of arrogance and casting a blind eyes to their problems.

[DrugSalvastore]

Dang, NYRA is a pretty hot subject over here.

I guess I need to formulate an opinion about NYRA, since like 12% of the topics here seem to be about the New York Racing Association.

* I like the recent policy they have had regarding takeout reduction. I don't know or care if Barry Schwartz gave away no-bid contracts to his family, as long as he lowered the takeout twice, and tried to do it more times, he gets an A+ in my book. Seems like a nice guy as well.

* Not to knock Jan Rushton and the two new younger guys doing the replay show, but I think NYRA could do a little better. I might be nit-picking, they are a decent collection of talent compared to what TVG has. Sometimes Jan seems to be a little less than sober--maybe it's just me.

That's pretty much all I have on NYRA. On the other board, never in five years did they discuss NYRA, or management at any other track.

This seems like a yuppy paradise in here. I'm almost getting nostalgic for some of the AOL board brawls. Last year a popular West Coast tout from the old Roger Stein radio show told a KY radio tout to "eat more bacon and die you fat pig." The KY tout responded by claiming he had proof that the CAL tout messed around with an underage girl. It was a wonderful place, but the new board format there sucks (this one is 1,000 times better) and the kind of stuff, like 300 posts about the Shivo case around Derby time, that's just stupid. For all the knocks, it was a great place for aggressive and opinionated discussion on betting and racing. It's like breaking up with a chick you liked.

[aaron]

Saratoga Guy,
I don't only blame NYRA.
I blame the politicians and the otb's.
I think the three between them haven't got a clue.Its probably to late for NYRA to take a stand against the other two.The only thing NYRA could do was withhold its signal,but it seems the whole situation is out of hand.I guess the years of incompetence have me frustrated.I don't have the answers,but I find it hard to see anything positive in the future.

[Zman179]

In regards to no tellers being on the 3rd floor of the grandstand, that must be new. Because when I'm at Belmont during the week (never the weekend) I always go directly to the third floor to bet and I've always seen tellers there (albeit 5 or 6 of them). Last time I went was about three weeks ago.

The new machines are dreadful. Simply put: they are not user-friendly. Takes longer to understand and punch out a wager. With some of the good things that NYRA has done (lowering takeout, free admission during the Inner Dirt meet), they've also had some bonehead decisions (switching tote vendors, price gouging for the Belmont Stakes, concession prices out of control like $3.75 for a slice of pizza or cup of soup and $3.50 for a large coke). But I suppose that the good and the bad will happen anywhere.

But if I could, I would bring back Autotote at Belmont TOMORROW. You Saratoga fans will find out exactly what I'm talking about when the college kid tellers up there get their first taste of the machines. Dreadful. :bang:

[Figman]

Here is something pertinent to this discussion about NYRA.
http://tinyurl.com/c23pa

[aaron]

I was there Wednesday and last Friday and there were no tellers.I was there last weekend and there were only 3 or 4 tellers on the 3rd floor.

[DerbyTrail]

Aaron..

A few thoughts.. I haven't been to AQU in a while, but I'm at BEL a great deal during both meets. I can understand the 3rd floor complaint, but I can sympathize with mgmt. as well, given attendence. BEL Stakes Day, lines were inconsistent from what I saw... Pockets of long lines, pockets of no lines.. I've been wagering with tellers lately, but I am familiar with the new machines as they are used in the Montreal Hippo Clubs, and they are a pain.

You are clearly a regular patron, and don't think for a second that NYRA doesn't appreciate your business. I urge you to contact Cathy Marino at BEL. She's the Customer Service VP and a terrific lady. She'll welcome your thoughts on any Customer Service issue. Pat Mahony is the Pari-Mutuel Veep, and he too would listen with a generous ear. The parlay tix complaint is totally valid.

As a general comment, I think anyone who has gripes with what goes on at BEL on Stakes Day need only attend the Derby and Preakness to come away with a fresh perspective. General admission to the PIM Infield? How about $50 to witness drunken melees, pee in port-o-lets, get hit by thrown beer cans, wait 30 min. to bet, and barely see a race all day? Even the Derby infield this year had a dearth of jumbotron screens...

BEL Stakes Day G.A. at $2 was a goofy, ridiculous price, and even the hike to $10 G.A. was a value compared to CD and PIM. The $40 to $100 price increase for seats was likely too much... (They probably should have eased those up over a period of a few years. I heard a lot of complaints from the people who buy dozens of seats every year). But even the C-note is a bargain compared to the insane prices at the Derby for even the worst Grandstand seat.

People should realize that one of the greatest "fan friendly" aspects of non-profit NYRA has been the bargain admission, especially up here at the Spa. In many ways I'd say that we've been spoiled for a long time by how WELL we as patrons had been treated by NYRA without much attention to the bottom line.

If you think there has been "price gouging" going on lately, you'll really be in for a shock if a "for profit" organization comes to town.

My hope and expectation, especially based on a number of NYRA positives the past several month+, is that we will get a new version of the New York Racing Association as the "next" franchisee. I believe that the Gov. is posturing for that already. If people think that Albany is going to hand over this plum to people from Toronto, Vienna and Louisville, they don't know the Empire State too well.

And by the way... I'm still waiting for ANYONE to criticize the PRODUCT that NYRA puts on the oval year in, year out. Maybe it's just me, but I'm more interested in the steak on my plate as opposed to how they're slaughtering the cow.

[aaron]

Derby,
I have no problem with NYRA raising its prices for Belmont Day.I am actually surprised it took them this long to do it.I feel they are entitled to their day.The Belmont Stakes has become an event day.
The customer service people at NYRA are fan friendly and will listen to complaints.I just don't believe they are in a position to get anything done.I have sent e-mails about the parlays to Cathy Marino and she has been sympathetic,but nothing has been done.It doesn't take much common sense to realize you should have parimutual tellers available at each bay in the grandstand.If you watch races from section 3p,it is nice hike to the finish line where 3 or 4 parimutual tellers are open.
As for the product,I think you are basically correct,but you would have to admit the product at Belmont has been less than stellar.
Also,what NYRA positives have you seen the past several months that lead you to believe that NYRA will retain its franchise?
I also would like to state I am neither for or against the NYRA retaining its franchise.I just feel whoever is in charge must somehow also take control of the regional otb's.Everything should be under one umbrella.I don't even know if this is possiable.What are your ideas?

[Bubbles]

* Not to knock Jan Rushton and the two new younger guys doing the replay show, but I think NYRA could do a little better. I might be nit-picking, they are a decent collection of talent compared to what TVG has. Sometimes Jan seems to be a little less than sober--maybe it's just me.

Not just you. Believe me, SOMETHING has to be impaired when she picks out those hats! :D

[aaron]

Just a note-
Saturday at Belmont there were 5 or 6 parimutual tellers open on the 3rd floor of the grandstand.They were all near the finish line.If you watched the races further down there were no tellers.There were also one or two concession stands open on the weekend,which is one or two more than are open during the week.

[PaceAdvantage]

There really aren't that many people at the track on a "regular" weekend compared to when they built Belmont....so of course they aren't going to have every teller window occupied, especially on the 3rd floor....

[toetoe]

DrugS,

I hereby accuse YOU of indirect discourse. Some will think that's sex by proxy. HeHeH.