Trueline 2000 ?

[jk3521]

I have been getting mailings periodically from Jim and Trillis Selvidge concerning Trueline 2000 software and I have never seen any postings on this subject. Are there any users of this software out there? I understand that it is quite pricey, which has kept me away so far, something like $1000.00. Too steep a price for me, unless of course if it is all that it says it is.

[timtam]

One time Jim Selvidge was selling a Money Management paper which cost

about maybe $10. I sent him the money and never got anything back.

I inquired a few times and it was either at the printer or out of stock

you get the picture. I never got anything for my $10 but I was always

curious if that was the Money Management plan. Fleece guys like me for

$10. :mad:

[Wickel]

JK,

Funny you posted on this subject. I just e-mailed Selvidge Tuesday to send me some info on Trueline 2000. I received something else in the mail from him a few months ago about a horse-to-watch service that he and Trillis run. Any info on this? I think it's like $119 a month.

[aaron]

A while back I received the Truline 2000 Users Guide.I decided not to join the group,but I found Jim to be gracious and willing to help.They recommend tracks that are best to play.I generally play NY and from what I could gather NYRA was not one of the better circuits to play.

[Overlay]

The only book I ever read by Jim Selvidge was Hold Your Horses, which I recall being long on generalities and extremely short on specifics with regard to the influence of breeding on thoroughbred performance. Based on my experience with that, I never had any desire to read anything else he might have written. Are his other titles/products any better? Does he still emphasize the breeding aspect so much?

[jk3521]

According to the latest mailing, Mr Selvidge is turning over his software operations to some members of his group, I think it said something about him being in poor health.

[plainolebill]

The only book I ever read by Jim Selvidge was Hold Your Horses, which I recall being long on generalities and extremely short on specifics with regard to the influence of breeding on thoroughbred performance. Based on my experience with that, I never had any desire to read anything else he might have written. Are his other titles/products any better? Does he still emphasize the breeding aspect so much?

Lousy book. Poor read and the cover fell off right after I bought it ~1974.

[John]

Yeah,Trillis did a good job on her tape.She explained what to look for in a horse at the paddock. I enjoyed it.

[Maxspa]

All,
I was cleaning out my desk drawer and in between the myriad of papers was a floppy disk entitiled "Energy Quotient" by Jim Selvidge. As I remember from his newsletters he was into politics, stocks and quite vocal about controversial issues. His racetrack topics included the use of stickers and had a definite opinion about equipment changes being made public. He had made many improvements in "Truline" and the last I knew the software was functioning well. I'm sad to hear he's not in good health.
He was always an upfront guy and I'm surprised to hear about the lack of communication regarding a money issue mentioned in an earlier post. Perhaps there is a legitimate mixup of some kind.
Maxspa

[Roger]

I am truly surprised at the allegations that Jim Selvidge has tried to fleece anyone..I have been doing business with Jim for over a year, and found him to be totally honest and above board..I know his eyesight is failing, but otherwise very sharp..

I am sure that if anyone feels shortchanged, that they should contact Jim.. He will accomodate you gracefully and honestly, that's just the way he is.

I have been using Truline2000 for over a year very successfully. It's certaintly not a black box, but if used as suggested it is a tremendous program for picking longshots..Double Overlays as he calls them! This program is well worth the money....It paid for itself in three days. And might I add that this program is extremely good with Exactas and Trifectas.

Just my two cents worth!!

[Wickel]

I just got another mailing from Selvidge--I think it was a newsletter--where he blasted several people by name who shortchanged him. If I understood correctly, you have to make a 10-month commitment to the software at $100 a month. Is this correct?

[Roger]

That is correct...$100.00 monthly for 10 months. :)

Roger,

[jj3465]

cx@cliffhanger.com
i want to find a copy of this program to start using it. can u help me
jj3465

[gotrocks13]

I've used Truline for a number of years and have found it to be a useful handicapping tool in a number of areas. It's not the holy grail(nothing is)but can be a useful part of your handicapping arsenal. My ROI has increased using it in certain situations where I felt my handicapping was weak. I use it when playing tracks that I am not very familar with. Jim Selvidge has always been honest and forthright with me whenever I have ever dealt with him. He's an honest guy who has been taken advantage of a number of times because of his honesty. His bluntness on certain issues about racing has also alienated him from certain people in the industry. I do have to say that I disagree with him on a number issues but have a great deal of respect for the fact that he's willing to go out on a limb with his opinions. He's an oldtimer who seems to be a little behind the learning curve when it comes to racing in the new age with all the information available online these days. Then again, that would describe a number of people.

My suggestion to you is to call Jim (his number is available on his website) yourself and ask all the questions you need to ask to decide whether this product is something you want. I'm sure he'll be glad to answer any question you have. He did for me and I was very skeptical while I was researching it. This is not a product for everyone so make sure it's something you want to invest in especially considering the steep price.

[selvidge]

Dear Sir:

TRULINE 2000 is not marketed knowingly to the recreational horse player. It is a "package" - a highly sophisticated and unique software plus four years of my newsletters (restricted to Owners), and an account on our Owner's Website, which carries new information and commentary every Friday. After 13 years, we have 140 clients (professional horse players and those aspiring), and take no more than twenty on any given year. Owners have unlimited E-Mail and phone access. If you want any further information, go to www.horsestalk.com (http://www.horsestalk.com) and send your S-Mail address to ours.

[selvidge]

Dear Sir:

I presume you are referring to my book "Money Management". It has had a number of printings, and there have been times when it has been on back order. I truly have a pretty good 35-year track record for nothing falling through a crack - but obviously it must have happened.

If you will go to our Website - www.horsestalk.com (http://www.horsestalk.com/) - click on Order Form. Circle it and write not received. Then mark any other item but TRULINE 2000 - and I will happily comp as an apology for the mis-fire. I really wish I had gotten a call or E-Mail from you directly.

Sincerely,

Jim Selvidge:ThmbUp:

[PaceAdvantage]

After 13 years, we have 140 clients (professional horse players and those aspiring), and take no more than twenty on any given year. Owners have unlimited E-Mail and phone access. If you want any further information, go to www.horsestalk.com (http://www.horsestalk.com/) and send your S-Mail address to ours.

Hi Jim. Welcome aboard.

Congrats on the success of your product. May I suggest that if you are interested in a little more exposure, (and from the sound of your recent replies here, it seems as though you are) you look into placing a very affordable advertisement on this very website. We'd appreciate your support.

Contact ads@paceadvantage.com and I'll send you the rate card.

Regards,

==PA

[selvidge]

Dear Mr. Wickel,

My wife, Trillis Parker, and I DO NOT offer any kind of selection service. You are confusing us with someone else's mail re such for $119 per month. I have been in the Thoroughbred industry for almost forty years, and have yet to see such that shows a profit. "The Wizard" comes closest, but you have to monitor the selections and results multi-year and multi-track. You may have heard from Mike Warren under an alias.

Best wishes,

Jim Selvidge
horsestk@horsestalk.com

[John]

I'm with you PA.

[falseface]

One time Jim Selvidge was selling a Money Management paper which cost

about maybe $10. I sent him the money and never got anything back.

I inquired a few times and it was either at the printer or out of stock

you get the picture. I never got anything for my $10 but I was always

curious if that was the Money Management plan. Fleece guys like me for

$10. :mad:

I have known Jim for over ten years, and I have NEVER known him to fleece anyone. He is always available by phone or email for questions or problems to pretty much anything he sells. As a matter of fact, one time I was sent a book instead of a video by mistake, and I was able to keep the book and he went ahead and sent the video anyway. While I have been out of the horse racing arena for quite awhile due to other obligations, I have now begun to head back to the track again. I do own his software, and while it CANNOT be used as a tip sheet or blackbox, it will hit some MONSTER longshots. It is EXCELLENT at track bias tabulation,(which is described in detail in the users manual). I know of no other software that does that.

[John]

It is EXCELLENT at track bias tabulation,(which is described in detail in the users manual). I know of no other software that does that.[/QUOTE]


" So what's the bias at Saratoga ? For the upcomeing meet " :)

[andicap]

I have known Jim for over ten years, and I have NEVER known him to fleece anyone. He is always available by phone or email for questions or problems to pretty much anything he sells. As a matter of fact, one time I was sent a book instead of a video by mistake, and I was able to keep the book and he went ahead and sent the video anyway. While I have been out of the horse racing arena for quite awhile due to other obligations, I have now begun to head back to the track again. I do own his software, and while it CANNOT be used as a tip sheet or blackbox, it will hit some MONSTER longshots. It is EXCELLENT at track bias tabulation,(which is described in detail in the users manual). I know of no other software that does that.

Was that Vincent Price? (Falseface I mean)

[Red Knave]

Was that Vincent Price? (Falseface I mean)
Andy
A little research seems to indicate it was Malachi Throne in a Batman episode from 1966.

[falseface]

It is EXCELLENT at track bias tabulation,(which is described in detail in the users manual). I know of no other software that does that.


" So what's the bias at Saratoga ? For the upcomeing meet " :)[/QUOTE]


Track bias can very significantly from day to day. You have to watch the first two or three races,(With The Software Printout), to get a feel for what may be winning for that day,( Such as Closing Speed, Turn Time Speed, etc. These are correlations created by the software). Some days you can tell what is winning, and some days you can't. It doesn't win everyday, like anything else. If it did, I would be a VERY wealthy man.

[falseface]

Andy
A little research seems to indicate it was Malachi Throne in a Batman episode from 1966.

HA! HA! My favorite show of the sixties when I was growing up as a kid. Also my FAVORITE villian!

[andicap]

Andy
A little research seems to indicate it was Malachi Throne in a Batman episode from 1966.

Yes, I was testing my trivia knowledge/memory. Apparently I got an F.

Of course Vincent Price was Egghead. "Egg-cellent!"

My favorite villain -- apart from Julie Newmar in a cat suit, purrrrrrrrrr -- was Otto Preminger as Mr. Freeze.

[joec4625]

Gentleman I had played horses for over 30 yrs , and I was a Pirco student and Sartin follower for many yrs, and always looking for some better the horse player dream , until one day I found a system wich i consider the best i purchase every book from Tom Brohamer to Michael Pizzolla, Howard Sartin best attend all seminars
and consider a pro even Mr Sartin told me i was a quite one that never share vital info , one day i saw truline 2000 I saw the price and say Mama Mia $1000.00 is a lot what this person has is gold and decide it to take a chance let me tell you is the best thing I did finally i have the best, send for it have it for some time the system was paid with the first 2 races and the service is great I spoke many times with with Jim Selvidge and his wife,
baby steps for me cause i was dead pace handicapper i read a few lines mention about Mr Selvidge that are far from been true, his service is great
always answer me , returns phones calls, e-mail me and he has help me so
much..... if you want some that works from an old timer a man who knows very well the game is him Mr James Selvidge......
Never in my life I had so many long shots, and perfectas like I do know ....
ans I always have my respect for the rest of good handicappers nothing wrong to say but I'm interested in value horses not in winners long shots is my game ........
Regards
Joe

[betovernetcapper]

It seems that the only people that use this software are very new to this forum. It's strange how many new people just happen to find this forum just at the time this obscure software is being discussed. A cynical person might think this was some type of spam. :ThmbDown:

[Hosshead]

" It seems that the only people that use this software are very new to this forum. It's strange how many new people just happen to find this forum just at the time this obscure software is being discussed. A cynical person might think this was some type of spam."

BINGO We have a Winner !!!

Only took 28 Posts to get to the truth .

[John]

Hey Guys, If Joec4625 says its great, Its great. After all joey boy join on July 11, 2006 , he is an old timer and just found us.

well, Joey, go post some of "TRULINE" selections and prove to us you are worth listening to.

Best of luck to Jim and Trillis

[falseface]

It seems that the only people that use this software are very new to this forum. It's strange how many new people just happen to find this forum just at the time this obscure software is being discussed. A cynical person might think this was some type of spam. :ThmbDown:


Wow!! Some of the comments on this forum are really brutal! A user of the software is posting his experience, and a cynical person might think he is spamming. I guess a lot of people don't read the TOS part of which states: Again...No bashing. This is becoming more of a problem as the forum grows. Please remember this forum is here to help those who need it and to pass along useful information. Let's keep this a friendly place.

[JimG]

Wow!! Some of the comments on this forum are really brutal! A user of the software is posting his experience, and a cynical person might think he is spamming. I guess a lot of people don't read the TOS part of which states: Again...No bashing. This is becoming more of a problem as the forum grows. Please remember this forum is here to help those who need it and to pass along useful information. Let's keep this a friendly place.

The earlier comments by betovernet were not "brutal" nor constitute "bashing". He was stating an opinion. You may have noticed that Pace Advantage just celebrated its 7th anniversary. There are many users who have been here since day one (like me) and after so many years we see patterns develop. One of those patterns is someone mentions a software program, then new forum members proceed to tell everybody how great it is. It can be considered a not so subtle form of free advertising.

Welcome to the board falseface. PA runs a great board and encourages people to give their opinions as long as the TOS are met.

[John]

This forum is not brutal...

Sir, it is honest, From the Administrator right down to you. I thank and bless the Administrator for letting us speak our minds.As long as we keep it HONEST.


Why should I not be suspicious of one who claims he has been playing the horses for 30 years but just found this site two weeks ago and wants us to believe his software is the best kept secret.

I am still waiting for Mr. Selvidge or Joey Boy to post some Selections for all to see.and then pay this site for the commercial.

[PaceAdvantage]

Yeah, and it's not like I charge an arm and a leg for an ad.

I think it's fair game to question the validity of threads such as this one....

[selvidge]

Dear Sirs:

I won't impose again, but feel need to clarify a few things. I have not taken anyone as "negative". All should be cynical until satisfied. If you want to know who is a "straight-arrow", who do you call? Howard Swartz at Gambler's Book Club in Las Vegas.

I taught Basic and Advanced Courses in Thoroughbred Handicapping at the University of Washington from 1974-82, when Trillis and I relocated to Las Vegas. Through the 80's we did seminars ON TRACK at race tracks, Coast to Coast.

I wish this cynicism had been aimed at Howard Sartin 23 years ago. It was Barry Meadow's straight-arrow newsletter that finally exposed him as a charlatan. (I am not blasting another - in that wasn't his real name, nor were his alleged credentials.) Sartin's software was cheap - he only cost clients a fortune in betting losses.

Jim Selvidge

[betovernetcapper]

May I direct the reader to the following

http://www.spam.com/

[Tom]

I beg to differ, but as a former Sartin clinet, I did very well using his programs, and still do to some extent. I'm sure others here will agree with me, and there are at least two other websites were Sartin alumni are still using and winning.
Who he is and what his credentials are, along with a buck, will get a cup of coffee. The bottom line is people were winning, are winning, and learned to win from the Doc. It is pretty easy for you and Barry to bash the competition, a proven yet questionable market strategy.
Frankly, in my 40 years of playing horses, YOU and BARRY are two of the most questionable people I come across.

So pardon my attitude, but I think you know where you can stick your opinion.

BTW, do you have data to support your claim of his costing clients losses?
Or just more talk? And cheap? I paid $500 for Energy! back in the day of $50-$100 programs. I still have it, and I never was the least bit dissatisifed with it.

Noticed you got your cheap plug in for your software - did you pay PA yet for the free advertising? Not doing so, would, in MY opinion, be very charlatarian.


Take my opinion for what it's worth, but unlike you and Barry, I have nothing to sell anyone, and if I did, I would give it away.

[Tom]

The earlier comments by betovernet were not "brutal" nor constitute "bashing". He was stating an opinion. You may have noticed that Pace Advantage just celebrated its 7th anniversary. There are many users who have been here since day one (like me) ......

Actually, that is Day 2.
The first PA board crashed and was lost at sea. Talk about brutal...hehehe, there were, shall we say, "food fights" back then. There were some characters vack then, but we seldom hear a "peep" out them anymore! ;););)

[John]

Sartin's software was cheap - he only cost clients a fortune in betting losses.

Jim Selvidge[/QUOTE]


Jim, would you please post some selections.I want to see how much your software will cost me,betting :(

[gjones6794]

It is possible to have just recently found this web site. In June or July while researching a handicapping topic on a search engine, I ended up here. I bought my first horse racing download file in 1996. My first phone bet account was Philly Phone Bet about the same time period. I have continually use the internet for data files and betting since 1996 or so. Yet, I never knew about this web site. So unless you are searching for something, you may never find this web site.

However, I really like the web site. I end each day in front of the TV with my lap top logged into PA. The web site is really entertaining and enlighting. I have learned new things and new betting strategies.

So keep those posts comming.

[shanta]

Dear Sirs:


I wish this cynicism had been aimed at Howard Sartin 23 years ago. It was Barry Meadow's straight-arrow newsletter that finally exposed him as a charlatan. (I am not blasting another - in that wasn't his real name, nor were his alleged credentials.) Sartin's software was cheap - he only cost clients a fortune in betting losses.

Jim Selvidge

Low blow Jim. Tell you what here is a link to a Sartin website.
http://bindfold.com/forums/index.php

feel free to come on over. We do a "race of the week" every Friday night where members make selections and post screen shots BEFORE the race runs using various versions of the " cheap software" from the " charlatan".

This has been going on for a couple of months now. NUMEROUS members are showing positive returns that would make almost anyone seeing them DROOL.
My personal $ net is over $ 6.00 ( $ 2.00 is break even) .

This is all based on PRE race selections by all of us.

Come on over with your superior stuff and attitude Jim. I will arrange that YOU select the race for 3 weeks in a row and we will bet YOUR races of choice.

you game man? or just talk?

lemme know ok?

Richard Pizzicara

[Roger]

Low blow Jim. Tell you what here is a link to a Sartin website.
http://bindfold.com/forums/index.php

feel free to come on over. We do a "race of the week" every Friday night where members make selections and post screen shots BEFORE the race runs using various versions of the " cheap software" from the " charlatan".

This has been going on for a couple of months now. NUMEROUS members are showing positive returns that would make almost anyone seeing them DROOL.
My personal $ net is over $ 6.00 ( $ 2.00 is break even) .

This is all based on PRE race selections by all of us.

Come on over with your superior stuff and attitude Jim. I will arrange that YOU select the race for 3 weeks in a row and we will bet YOUR races of choice.

you game man? or just talk?

lemme know ok?

Richard Pizzicara



As a former Sartin ????? client...I can assure you that there is no comparison whatsoever with regards to results. Please don't embarass yourself with that challenge.

In regards to free advertising...Only 20 or so are allowed to Purchase the Software yearly and that's pretty much done by word of mouth IMHO.

You won't find very many Truline users posting anywhere! They are busy enjoying the rewards, and have little time for posting negative comments on Programs they know nothing about, which seems to be the case here with these recent comments posted.

I have used the Sartin programs and feel justified in making my remarks...Unless you have first hand knowledge and experience with a Program, what is the purpose of bashing? If you are successful with what you are doing, that's wonderful...Keep doing it! But don't knock something if you know nothing about it.

Success in any venture breeds an attitude of secretiveness! Why give away the the golden key on some public forum.


If you want a college education, then I guess You need to pay the Tuition!

[shanta]

[QUOTE=Roger]As a former Sartin ????? client...I can assure you that there is no comparison whatsoever with regards to results. Please don't embarass yourself with that challenge.
QUOTE]

Hi Roger,
I am a grown man and can handle embarassment just fine :) .

Part of life is standing up for things you believe in and showing loyalty to both friends and folks who have helped you in life.

Howard and Jim Bradshaw have been VERY good to me.

I have had terrible experiences with people. One thing I will tell you is I wouldn't post this if the person being attacked personally wasn't able to defend himself ok? That's low class in my opinion. That's how I was raised.

wish you all the best
Richie

[Roger]

Shanta,

I respect your loyalty....I've had success with Sartin programs in the past, but nowhere close to the success I've enjoyed with Truline. Again, this is a matter of fact on my part. I in no way criticize any other Program anyone is having success with. But, like you I will defend something that has been good to me, and Truline has!
Posting a race here and there doesn't prove or disprove the validity of any Program! None show a profit everyday.

The best way for me to describe the Program is that it is for someone who wants a vocation not an avocation, if your'e willing to seriously learn.

I dont think that anyone made any comment in regards to Sartin, that is not documented fact as to his legitimacy.

Best of Luck to you,

Roger,

[Tom]

I dont think that anyone made any comment in regards to Sartin, that is not documented fact as to his legitimacy.

Best of Luck to you,

Roger,

Selvedge did. Cheap shot.

[Binder]

Success in any venture breeds an attitude of secretiveness! Why give away the the golden key on some public forum.


If you want a college education, then I guess You need to pay the Tuition!

Hello I am the moderator of Pace and Cap
a Sartin Methodology site that Shanta mentioned.
My goal when I set up the site was to provide people with
the same training and support that was there for me when I needed help
The reason why we post instructional step by step races,
post selections and do the friday night race and also the feature race from Del Mar daily is all done before the races are run - to help while we teach others. I started doing this
why? because I realize that I am betting against the public But I
can't help it. when I'm at the track I notice those few faces that I can just tell are lost and wishing for an answer just like I was back in 1997
I just feel that I should devote my time to teach the methodology in some way The members of Pace and cap generally are a great bunch of guys
I can tell that many of them give out to make themselves happy too
I love to win I also love to help people win
Doc Sartin was there for me in 1997 We help because we got help
I just want to add I am very greatful to Paceadvantage that I can
speak about my Sartin site here Thank You

Bill V

[46zilzal]

Sartin methodology works. It just takes time and a lot of practice AND finding the courses where it continues to work. I follow 7 or 8 tracks: IT DOES NOT WORK ALL THE TIME, so, like one's stock portfolio, one moves around.

So many people never learn the "ins and outs" of things before giving up and going onto another program. Good things take time.

[shanta]

tying up loose ends Selvidge has declined my invitation to select and participate in our race's of the week.

Richie

[John]

So what eles is new......

[Maxspa]

Binder,
I find that when you help others, It often improves or enhances your own approach. For example while explaining a handicapping aspect or procedure you may find an idea or operation that you never tried before but may be applicable to your present program development.
IMHO helping others has positive benefits for you and the person you're assisting.
Maxspa

[selvidge]

Dear Richard,

You obviously are intent on ignoring anything I say. And it was very unfair to post that I had refused your challenge without explaining why.

I am not a programmer; in fact Trillis is the computer expert. She managed the Weyerhauser main frames in the 60's and 70's.

You also skim to quickly and miss things. I told you that I am a stroke-impaired 77, who can no longer travel.

I have searched this Website as best I know how, and could not locate a mailing address or phone number.

At the top of everything I author is:

James N. Selvidge
716 S. Anacortes Street
Burlington, WA. 98233
(360) 755-1175
www.horsestalk.com (http://www.horsestalk.com)
horsestk@horsestalk.com

If you send me your mailing address, I will send you some things to look at.

In closing, bad dudes deserve to be bashed. It has been thus through American history. I was in the motion picture industry for thirty years. My father served as an advisor to four Presidents, Roosevelt through Kennedy. My early life and my business life has been jam-packed with great people. But, there have been evil people in every field, and they should not be allowed to hide. The people that I have come to know and admire in the Thoroughbred industry over forty years would have nothing to do with me if I took "cheap shots" at someone who didn't deserve it. Nor would they trust me with their confidences.

Jim Selvidge

[shanta]

Dear Richard,

You obviously are intent on ignoring anything I say. And it was very unfair to post that I had refused your challenge without explaining why.

I am not a programmer; in fact Trillis is the computer expert. She managed the Weyerhauser main frames in the 60's and 70's.

You also skim to quickly and miss things. I told you that I am a stroke-impaired 77, who can no longer travel.

I have searched this Website as best I know how, and could not locate a mailing address or phone number.

At the top of everything I author is:

James N. Selvidge
716 S. Anacortes Street
Burlington, WA. 98233
(360) 755-1175
www.horsestalk.com (http://www.horsestalk.com)
horsestk@horsestalk.com

If you send me your mailing address, I will send you some things to look at.

In closing, bad dudes deserve to be bashed. It has been thus through American history. I was in the motion picture industry for thirty years. My father served as an advisor to four Presidents, Roosevelt through Kennedy. My early life and my business life has been jam-packed with great people. But, there have been evil people in every field, and they should not be allowed to hide. The people that I have come to know and admire in the Thoroughbred industry over forty years would have nothing to do with me if I took "cheap shots" at someone who didn't deserve it. Nor would they trust me with their confidences.

Jim Selvidge

You told me u can not travel. musta missed the part about u telling me u are 77 and stroke recovering.

even though I am staring at your messages for the last 15 minutes.

having said that I don't argue with fellows your age ok? something bout respecting my elders.

I hope your health improves. My name IS Richard Pizzicara and you will have my address in a PM

feel better
Richie

[gotrocks13]

Richie-Picking a race here and there will not prove or disprove whether any particular softare works or not. Most software helps the user gain a particular edge and improves ROI. Let me use my own personal record for example: I have certain criteria when finding and overlay. I don't pick a winner as often but am showing a profit verses my old style of play where I would just bet a horse if I thought he was the best in the race.

I focus on particular race circuits and use trainer patterns and pedigree for 1st time starters. This is were I've shown the most profit. Playing against false favorites and finding value in the pick 3 and 4 pools have helped a lot too.
I use Truline in areas were I am weak or am not interested in handicapping to tie in with my horses of choice in the multiple race exotics. It's only one part of my handicapping arsenal but has really helped cash some big tickets on horses I would not normally play when putting my pick 3 and 4 tickets together. Jim has always been very easy to get in touch with if I had any questions with truline. He's a stand up guy who will answer all your questions. I hated spending the money for truline in the begining thinking, that I wasted my time until it helped me cash a few. When playing multiple race exotics you can't always play the races you are strong at so I was looking for something else to help fill in the gaps. Truline has helped in that area.

[betovernetcapper]

I think this says it

[Tom]

Richie,
I'll filed this one - I'll argue with anyone:p

Besides, "bad dudes deserve to be bashed."

Jim,
You posted that Sartin cost his clients fortunes in losing wagers - I am asking you, as a man of integrity, post your data. I assume you have hard evidnece and did not slander the man on heresay - I assume as a responsible businessman, you have solid evidence to back up your claims, so plese post them here. I further assume you would not sacrifice your integr for a few sales, so please, post your data. Back up your mouth with proof.
Even a 77 stroke ridden man should be able to do that. And in the same forum where the claim was made.

[timtam]

Dear Fellow horseplayers,

I just received a private message from Jim Selvidge wanting to square

away an old debt. I ordered a money management paper years and years

ago and never received it and in my original post I used the word "fleeced"

which was a poor choice of words. Anyway I want to say after all these

years he still will honor my purchase. I think thats very noble and I am

happy to tell everyone I was wrong about my opinion of Jim.



y

[selvidge]

Dear Tom,

I can understand why Richie attempts to defend Sartin, as he's taken up the mantle. I fully realized that the reason Sartin was so vicious to Trillis and I was that our allegation that "Thoroughbred racing is not an honest game" was something that threatened his whole Empire.

First, I knew the man - well - for two decades. My first impression was that he looked like an Oxford Professor. He always had outstanding charisma, as long as he was selling. Do you buy a car or insurance from a man who hides behind an alias for two decades, and claims academic credentials and standing that are totally fraudulent.

Second, spend a few dollars and buy from Barry Meadows at 1-800-378-2211 (TR Publishing) a back issue of his Sartin expose.

Third, I have file folders full of horror stories (re:losses) going back to the mid-80's. These range from newsletter subscribers in the 80's and 90's to current TRULINE 2000 Owners.

Have you ever heard of Mike Warren? Do you defend him, also? In 1987 I wrote an expose on the sports services "industry". I named names. Some went to jail. These were the days of direct mail pitches. We got into the computer run (so help me, by a guy named Guido) that was located twenty miles from Cicero, very near where they buried the Spilotro brothers alive. At that time, there were hundreds of services that were owned and operated by organized crime.

Most all religions preach Charity - hate the sin, love the sinner. Mikie tells me that Sartin is currently bed-ridden (but with no details). I have nothing against the man in that bed. I can feel very sorry for him. What you aren't understanding is that that particular man was acting a fictitious part for two decades. The character being played was a bad dude that did a lot of damage.

Sartin never denied one aspect of Meadows' expose. He has never given an explanation or apologized. He just disappeared. In closing out this subject, and in the interests of those who log on to PACEADVANTAGE, I have spent 33 years "telling it like it is", but I was raised in journalism, and the concepts of honesty, integrity, and ethics. I DO NOT deal in rumors or innuendos.

If you read all that I have written, as have our clients, you'd know I would have been sued many times if I didn't have hard evidence. In carrying on Sartin's banner, Mikie must zap me in every way possible.


Sincerely,

Jim Selvidge

[46zilzal]

funny...the software works. Don't care if Howdy Doody did it.

[46zilzal]

A surprising number or people trash the Sartin way of handicapping a race with LITTLE or NO experience with it directly. I know that the author Davidowitz dedicated an entire chapter in his book calling it "psuedo-science." Particularly germane since it has changed and become more sophisticated over the course of it's evoltuion. The current programs have aspects that the last publically available program (Validator) did not have.

[John]

I had exchanged E-Mails with a half-dozen PACEADVANTAGE inquiries. I took their interest as sincere. They all have access to the TRULINE OWNER'S Website through August. But I won't extend that courtesy to Mikie, nor you - at least for now - in few of your expressed opinions.

Sincerely,

Jim Selvidge

Tom,

If PA lets this guy post one more commercial without paying for it.I resign. I want my money back.

[Tom]

I could give rat' s ass for your program.
No, actually, I would rather have the rat's ass.

You are severley limited in the ethics department, maybe due to senitlity, I dunno. But for you come here and start trashing a guy who has many frineds here and on other boards, and is not even in business today is unexplainably rude. Slow day at the track? Feeling not so fresh?

I have read Barry's expose. Not impressed. With either the article or Barry.
Ihave problems with people who sell themselves as "watchdogs" of th eindustry, then turn around sell thier own shit. Pretty unethical to me, but hey, Barry needs the money that bad, more power to him. You mention Mike Warren, and I was already thinking of him after reading your claims of letters that no one will ever see.....:rolleyes:
I was born at night, but not last night.

And for your info, Sartin did not just diappear. He continued on until his health forced him to quit.

And I knew his pitch was a come on - to enhance the philospohy of winning thing. I did not/do not care because the program worked, and his mental attitude thing worked.

You keep on telling it like it was. Frankly, I never needed anyone to tell me what worked and what didn't - I knew he was playing a role - so what? I was cashing tickets. did no harm to me, and many others I know - in fact, I do not know one person who was hurt by his stuff. I don't know wehre truth and hype part company, but I don't care etiher. I judge him on his material.

Frankly, if you follwed his advice you could not get hurt any worse than without it. if you kept the records he prescribed, if you maagned you money like he suggested, if you kept track profiles, you had to know what you were doing.

Did you ever try the progams, try his methodology of using it?
Did you ever "investigate" if those you claim to know who werre hurt used the methodolagy they way it was taught, or just take thier word for it?

[Tom]

Tom,

If PA lets this guy post one more commercial without paying for it.I resign. I want my money back.

Yeah, talk about hucksters.
Need any snake oil?

[PaceAdvantage]

Notice the "Edited by PaceAdvantage?"

I try not to let people post free ads, especially vendors themselves, but sometimes even I miss something....

[canadadry]

I read Selvidge's book Hold Your Horses many times. His money making strategies are worthwhile. The book is helpful for pace handicapping.
In the 80's I took his handicapping class at a community college and found him to be very knowlegeable and enchanting as an instructor.

[betovernetcapper]

When I started handicapping in 1979, I read EVERYTHING I could get my hands on including Hold Your Horses. This was not an important book. His theroy of BB+square root has been discounted-it would have been widely discounted if it had been considered widely.
Sometime in the early 80s Selvedge gave a lecture in Chicago and I went. Much of the lecture was devoted to selling various pamphlets he had brought with him. I thought at the time that he was, from a racing point of view, very provincial-high on short term trends in north western tracks. Even in talking about this small circut, he didn't refer to the horses by name but by number. This was not an important lecture.
I would be very suprised if this software had anything of value. :ThmbDown:

[Riley_Racer]

Gentlemen,

I'd be willing to bet that there are owners
of this program that wouldn't part with their
copy for any amount of money.

Just my two cents, thank you very much!

Riley

[PaceAdvantage]

Gentlemen,

I'd be willing to bet that there are owners
of this program that wouldn't part with their
copy for any amount of money.

That's even more of a reason for me not to care, correct?

What is the point of this post?

[Riley_Racer]

...a TL2000 owner used it to win
almost $190,000 in a handicapping
tournament. That's the only reason
I made the statement.

Seems to me it would be worth more
than the $1000 price tag. And no, I
don't own one (wish I did). I'm in the
neutral zone here. Peace bro'.

Warm Regards,
Riley

[Wickel]

Mr. Selvidge:

Sorry for the mixup earlier in this post. I did think you were a selection service. I, too, purchased "Hold Your Horses" and many of your tapes on handicapping. Both proved very beneficial.


For the Sartinites:

Next time one of you visit or speak to the good doctor, ask him about John Meyer.

Wickel

[PaceAdvantage]

...a TL2000 owner used it to win
almost $190,000 in a handicapping
tournament. That's the only reason
I made the statement.

Seems to me it would be worth more
than the $1000 price tag. And no, I
don't own one (wish I did). I'm in the
neutral zone here. Peace bro'.

Warm Regards,
Riley


Unless it's a black box, this really means little to me....although it does sound more and more like free publicity for this program that is allegedly difficult to purchase, which in itself will only serve to increase demand via a psychological factor....but I digress of course....

[John]

PA, do us all a favor and end this link.....Please

[ratpack]

I sent for the manual which briefly outlines different styles of play using the program.

They have a track Bias way of marking your sheets that is a nice touch but for the price can and should be update to for laptops.

I would like to here from laptop users if you can scroll from one track to another easy or hard basiically is this program built for the simulcast era.

It does seem easy to learn and the read out is clear but I did not see a way for each person to produce his or her own stats per track. It did say that send out newsletter with Tidbits of infor for different.

I am not going "snipe" this program but for the price would like to see a few more user controlled things added. Maybe I missed some and they can be pointed out.

[selvidge]

Dear Sir:

When I send someone a private E-Mail, I don't expect it to wind up posted on the Internet. This hardly changes my assessment of you, personally, but must respond to your misrepresentation. William Quirin - to my knowledge - has never done the kind of analysis on ALL wagering methods in 25 years of racing - as was done by the University of Washington main frame computer. Living in Las Vegas, via Gambler's Book Club, I read literally everything in print on racing. I have not seen your quote anywhere, and importantly, no third party has brought it to my attention.

You conveniently neglected to mention that I had no part of this study, and at the time it took me about two years to comprehend the logic of BB+SR. Even John Meyer erred in his first analysis. His study assigned a $200 Bank to over a dozen strategies. Arbitrarily, he ran outcome sequences as specified by the literature.

In looking at BB+SR he specified a Base Bet of $20 plus square root of the profits. Even on that basis, BB+SR was #1. When he sent me his rough draft, I called him and said "John, as a personal favor, re-run based on a $1 Base Bet (plus the square root of the profit to the dollar) times 20 "flows" in parallel. The latter was astonomically higher, and his cable to Expo '84 at Meadowlands included an apology - that it had never occurred to him that the ending profit would be any different.

Informationally, BB+SR works well in the stock market re: options trading on underlying stocks. But, per horses, the U. of W. computer dictated a $20 loss per $1 "flow" as a "stop-loss". $20 of red ink was a red flag. Either the bettors handicapping methodology was faulty or there was a problem with that particular track. Whatever, back off and don't make another bet until you know you are playing with a full deck.

I have no problem with your impression of me, even if I suspect your motives. But don't use me to sully the work of others. I have had only one problem with BB+SR. To the vast majority, since high school "square root" brings the same shudder as Shakespeare's "Hamlet". For thos reason, I created a shirt pocket "Square Root Table" which goes to $25,000 profit per $1 "flow". So, there's no math involved - just look at the card and pull off the square root number.

In running Round Robin Parlays, these should be run in sequences long term, after each ten-race RR, increase the Base by SR of SR of SR.

You say you are winning. That's good. But open your mind and you will profit even more.

Finally, starting in September I will be advertising, but NOT for TRULINE 2000. I am leaving it to the Webmaster as to where to place it.

Sincerely,

Jim Selvidge

[John]

Thanks Jim for the support to this website. We all appreciate it.

Best of luck to you and Trillis and Trueline too.

John

:) :) :)

[JEduke46]

I have been doing business with Jim for over 20 years and have been playing horses for 60 years. I payed for the first program I bought from Jim the first day I used the program some 20 years ago. I have been using Truline 2000 from day one it was put on the market and would not take any thing for it. I do not make a profit every day but my wins out number by losses. When I am at the track or playing from home with my friends they all want to know about the "double overlays". This is where the big wins are. I will continue to do business with Jim as long as he is in business and hope he has a new version of Truline out soon because it seem to just get better with each version.

[JimG]

PA, do us all a favor and end this link.....Please


PA,

I second the motion.