Racing Post article on US Racing

[cj]

http://www.thorograph.com/hold/RPost_drugs_May05.pdf

[Kreed]

thanks CJ for that great link. racing can't afford to get lazy or cheap on this issue. its cheating. btw, my boss uses cone snake venom in her coffee.

[Tom]

Kreed. they milk my boss for cone snake venom! :D


CJ - great link-thanks.

[cj]

The file was courtesy of a poster at the Thorograph site, just to give proper credit. Long read, but very interesting to see a different perspective on US racing.

[RXB]

"Some of racing's journalists need to spend less time writing fawning accolades to the cheaters and more time asking tough questions." Jay Hovdey, are you reading?

"... the deaths of more than one horse from another leading stable were attributed to their having eaten poisoned grass. In the most litigious country in the world, however, no case for damaged was brought. Many, many horses ate the same grass. There is no grass sickness (of the sort that killed Dubai Millennium) in the United States."

Hmmm, I wonder to which stable he is referring. Todd Pletcher, would you be able to give us the name of the trainer in this case?

[PaceAdvantage]

The article is all well and good, but something always nags at me with articles such as these....why do all these articles have to refrain from "naming names?"

I'll tell you why. There isn't any proof. Therefore, they are afraid of getting sued. So, at this point, these articles are no better than you would find in the National Enquirer.

Why is it so difficult to get proof and name names? If "everybody knows" what's "really" going on behind the scenes, why all the fear of being sued?

Why won't some hungry reporter out there get the scoop and name the names? There are PLENTY of papers out there that would love a juicy story like this....it doesn't have to be a reporter from the Daily Racing Form. The New York Times, Daily News, Newsday, New York Post....these are all big papers....

How about 60 minutes? They did a piece on racing and drugs many years ago...how about another one in 2005?

If cheating abounds, where is the hard proof? Trainers are SUSPENDED all the time for using illegal substances!!! I don't understand what all the secrecy is about, and why this Racing Post article has to resort to using THINLY VEILED references to obvious big time trainers....

[cj]

Patrick Byrne, Todd Pletcher, Steven Allday. How is that?

The libel laws are A LOT tougher in the UK.

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't understand the Todd Pletcher reference. Someone please explain. Yes he had a couple of horses die on him in a short period of time. What is the conspiracy theory here?

I know a trainer a number of years ago (a trainer who most folks would label a "oats, hay, and water" trainer) who had 4 horses die on the training track all in the SAME WEEK. But you never heard about it....

What does this all prove?

[cj]

I agree with you, I can't believe noone has been able to do any undercover work. How hard is it to get a job with one of these outfits? I don't really know, just wondering. Do they employ many native English speakers? To be honest, if I were a trainer doing something illegal, I wouldn't tell a sole. The vet and I, that is it. Maybe these guys are smart enough to do the same. Maybe they aren't cheating at all. But like you said, hard to believe noone has even tried to catch them. Where is SI when you need them?

[J-bred]

If anyone has access somehow to the New York Post from the day or so before Swale won the Kentucky Derby, there was a back page article that said that Woody Stephens was considering scratching Swale from the race due to a reaction he had to new medication of some sort that was given to him. Thought nothing much of it since he ran and won... until he dropped dead six weeks later.

[andicap]

Well, they couldn't convict Al Capone either for a while --

No proof means they can continue racing and the newspapers can't print their names. Doesn't mean horseplayers in informal conversations can't discuss what they're certain is true.

I do agree, PA that it could be irresponsible to print names on this board; I believe you can be sued for posting a note sayiing Joe Blow is a drugger when he's never been convicted or even accused by a racing board. And if he's named but not yet tried you have to say "alleged."
Have you done research on libel and these board...?



The article is all well and good, but something always nags at me with articles such as these....why do all these articles have to refrain from "naming names?"

I'll tell you why. There isn't any proof. Therefore, they are afraid of getting sued. So, at this point, these articles are no better than you would find in the National Enquirer.

Why is it so difficult to get proof and name names? If "everybody knows" what's "really" going on behind the scenes, why all the fear of being sued?

Why won't some hungry reporter out there get the scoop and name the names? There are PLENTY of papers out there that would love a juicy story like this....it doesn't have to be a reporter from the Daily Racing Form. The New York Times, Daily News, Newsday, New York Post....these are all big papers....

How about 60 minutes? They did a piece on racing and drugs many years ago...how about another one in 2005?

If cheating abounds, where is the hard proof? Trainers are SUSPENDED all the time for using illegal substances!!! I don't understand what all the secrecy is about, and why this Racing Post article has to resort to using THINLY VEILED references to obvious big time trainers....

[kenwoodallpromos]

All you drug paranoid people need to get it straight! this thread proves you have no clue; it is CONE SNAIL VENOM, not cone SNAKE venom. If you are going to thow around unsupported accusations, you should at least sound like you know what you are talking about! Even Beyer said the Snail thing correctly!

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't believe anyone has come out here IN THIS POST and said "so and so" is a cheat and a drug user.....

There have been names mentioned, but they haven't been mentioned in the same post along with specific allegations....if I am wrong, please point out, and I will correct....I am pretty strict about potential libel on here....just ask Suff....

[RXB]

All you drug paranoid people need to get it straight! this thread proves you have no clue; it is CONE SNAIL VENOM, not cone SNAKE venom. If you are going to thow around unsupported accusations, you should at least sound like you know what you are talking about! Even Beyer said the Snail thing correctly!

Yeah, it's all just paranoia. I mean, how silly of us to think that something weird might be up when, all of a sudden, there are all of these 30% trainers all over the country. Guys who used to be mediocre trainers, all of a sudden have become unstoppable-- but hey, nothing suspicious about that, right?

[CryingForTheHorses]

http://www.thorograph.com/hold/RPost_drugs_May05.pdf

Cj, Can you relink this into a jpg format..I cant open pdf files with my trusty webtv..Thanks

[kenwoodallpromos]

Of the current Equibase top 100 trainers, 6 are 30% or more-
Steve Myadi who has been claiming a lot of good horses at GGF and BM and Art Serman, both doing short fields and been around.
Ralph Martinez, over 30% for 4 years at Fairmont.
Wayne Catalano, who even I have heard of.
Kirk Ziadie 30 of 89 who has a turf filly who is 12 of 19 and he is son of a known trainer.
Jayne Vanders I never heard of and cannot vouch for her!.
Most on this list are under 162 starts for the year.
___________
I could be wrong, but it does not sound to me like "all these" 30%ers are unknowns who hit 30% only this year. At lest that is what my research shows; maybe someone has different info than me.

[hurrikane]

last I checked there were over 30. More if you count trainers with less than 15 starts.

Gilcrist, Amoss, and Nixon, off the top of my head, are not on your list. They all have over 100 starts

[Valuist]

Amoss is not 30% this year, maybe he was last year. His barn is struggling this year at Churchill.