View Full Version : A different conspiracy theory
Dave Schwartz
06-03-2005, 10:52 AM
Interesting Read.
http://www.techcentralstation.com/060305B.html
The torture and abuse of terrorist suspects is very much in the news these days, so it's interesting to note the advice on the topic found in an Al Qaeda training manual seized some time ago in the U.K. The manual says that when captured or facing trial, "brothers must insist on proving that torture was inflicted on them by State Security." Noting the utility of the open U.S. media, the manual also calls "spreading rumors and writing statements that instigate people against the enemy" one of the top-five missions of the terrorist organization.
Lefty
06-03-2005, 11:44 AM
Dave, interesting isn't it that the main stream media and Dems are the willing "tools" of the terrorists.
Dave Schwartz
06-03-2005, 12:14 PM
I am sure that is a coincidence. <G>
Lefty
06-03-2005, 12:20 PM
Dave, yeah, right, I do i see a tongue firmly panted in cheek? LOL
You left this line out of your quote.
"This is not to say that torture and abuse at the hands of American troops is always a figment of Al Qaeda propaganda: The Abu Ghraib prison scandal proves otherwise. "
Kinda neat how we can take things out of context to prove our point, don't you think?
Dave Schwartz
06-03-2005, 02:01 PM
Lefty,
Ya think?
LJB,
The point is that, while bad thins really do happen, the "bad guys" are trying to make it look like things are happening when they aren't.
Hope that was clear enough for you.
Dave Schwartz
Dave, interesting isn't it that the main stream media and Dems are the willing "tools" of the terrorists.
Yes, it was cagey of them to forsee a detention center in a Communist country, Abu Garib, FBI reports, The News Week gaf and the Amensty International Report. They had a manual typed up and distributed did they? That is tremendous foresight.
It has to be right? I mean, OBL didn't send his Asst. down to KINKO's after the NewWeeks story broke, did he? We might be able to see if he used UPS or FedEx to ship it around the World? Because I do know those two companies are in economic bed , in a big way, with Saudia Arabia's regime.
lsbets
06-03-2005, 06:16 PM
That manual has been in the news for a while. What I do find interesting is that some people are quick to believe anything a prisoner at Gitmo says, and are quick to take the actions of a few (yes, I believe the wrongdoing was done by the few) and apply them to all. Its kind of funny. Almost seems like those poor terrorists are being picked on by the USA. :confused:
I am also surprised that no one on either side has said anything about Amnesty Int'l labelling Gitmo a gulag. My take is simple - you can think Gitmo is wrong, that we shouldn't have it, criticize it - I don't care. But there is no comparison to the gulags of the Soviet Union, and to make such an idiotic comparison only diminishes any legitimate aruguments with the policy you might have, and causes a lot of people who might otherwise be sympathetic to your point of view to tune you out.
Lefty
06-03-2005, 08:19 PM
lbj, you libs will sacrifice this country to the friggin terrorists if you can make the administration look bad. Abu Gahrib was an anomaly committed by a few, not the many and a military investigation was under way when the story broke in the media. Ted Kennedy said something to the effect that the torture chambers were alive and well and now under U.S. administation.(a paraphrase so don't call me a liar, as your wont to do, because every word is not a precise quote. Kennedy is a bitter venom filled liberal who should be voted out of office.
The N.Y. times ran 58 stories about Abu Gahrib. Deliberate overkill to make this admin look bad. Newsweek printed a downright lie. You guys better wake up and back this admin or you will be kissing terrorist ass literally.
Lefty
06-03-2005, 08:29 PM
lsbets, this amnesty inernational calling Gitmo a Gulag is just what i'm talking about. Instead of the media jumping down their throat they embrace the idea. They haven't brains enough(i guess) to realize they(media)lve in this country too. But there's hope, the N.Y. Times had to lay off 200 people. Guess subscriptions are down. Hmmm, wonder why?
Lefty,
Ya think?
LJB,
The point is that, while bad thins really do happen, the "bad guys" are trying to make it look like things are happening when they aren't.
Hope that was clear enough for you.
Dave Schwartz
OK Dave Schwartz,
Now I get it. Kinda like when things really do happen and the "bad guys" pretend they didn't happen. Downing street memo comes to mind as does Saddams wmds.
Thanks for clearing this up for me.
lbj, you libs will sacrifice this country to the friggin terrorists if you can make the administration look bad. Abu Gahrib was an anomaly committed by a few, not the many and a military investigation was under way when the story broke in the media. Ted Kennedy said something to the effect that the torture chambers were alive and well and now under U.S. administation.(a paraphrase so don't call me a liar, as your wont to do, because every word is not a precise quote. Kennedy is a bitter venom filled liberal who should be voted out of office.
The N.Y. times ran 58 stories about Abu Gahrib. Deliberate overkill to make this admin look bad. Newsweek printed a downright lie. You guys better wake up and back this admin or you will be kissing terrorist ass literally.
Lefty,
Why must you be so profane?
Lefty
06-03-2005, 10:02 PM
lbj, so now were the bad guys? You disgust me and that's why i'm semi-profane. You copied my statement and all you cou;ld say was why must i be profane? SAys a lot. I guess it's back to the liberal blogs for you.
Well, as slong as everyone says we are doing it, we might as well do! Let's squeeze whatever info outof them as we ca get, however we can get it. No big deal.
Newsweek printed a downright lie. You guys better wake up and back this admin or you will be kissing terrorist ass literally.
Your right it was False. The interrorgator DID NOT Flush the Koran down the Toilet. He only pissed on it. (per todays pentagon report)
......You'll be dead and gone when the Bill comes due for this stuff. So you can afford to run around advising people to "wake up". I'm up. What is that you want me to understand? That it got pissed on and not flushed? Yes your right.
What else? That 10 years ago? 5? 2? 1 year ago someone wrote down that playing possum is an effective military tactic? Yea Ok.
That manual has been in the news for a while. What I do find interesting is that some people are quick to believe anything a prisoner at Gitmo says,
.
The Pentagon is also investigating concerns raised by Federal Bureau of Investigation agents that interrogators at Guantanamo Bay were employing inappropriate methods to extract information from prisoners held in the war on terror.
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/cd88d09c-d487-11d9-9db0-00000e2511c8.html
Who you refering to? What Some people? The FBI? They're raising the concerns. Interested Americans just pay attention.
Your in the Republican Party right? The party believes that each individual Americn has the power to control his own fate? Except when it comes to filtering informatiom? Then we're to stupid and need help from the Goverment.
I'm smart enough (and responsible) to invest my safety net in the market, smart enough (and responsible) to keep myself educated in the ever changing American work place. But when it comes to dessiminating information on the War, I'm to stupid and need the Govts help there?
You can go the Govt for all your information if you choose... I'm like a Horse track... I look at "all sources" handle. I'm smart & responsible like that.
ElKabong
06-04-2005, 04:44 AM
ONE guy pisses on ONE copy of the koran, and you're worried about payback? Do you really hate yourself and your country this much, or are you just stinking drunk and trying to exorcise a bad week?
The past 25 yrs Americans have died at the whim of the nutcases and/ or blind followers of Islam. How many times have we seen them blow our people to bits and pieces? Kill someone in a wheel chair and throw them overboard to their deaths simply b/c he was an American? How many times have we seen them burn our flag? Gimme an answer.
Those incidents happened ling before some guy took a leak on a koran. Big f'n deal. Grow up and stop looking like an ass, already.
Newsflash to you bleeding hearts that hate yourselves, your country, and our soldiers who risk their lives and sacrifice greatly for us all....>>Middle easterners and Muslims in that part of the world don't give a shit if we treat them nicely or not. They simply hate us. They hated us when Jimmy Carter was in office. They held Americans hostage for 14 months, burned our flag in the streets and celebrated making us looks like a bunch of Georgia Democrat peanut pickers who let people run over us at will.....They still hate us today and they'll hate us 25 yrs from now.
Ljb, Suff, Sec, Zilch, little girl, etc....Your posts have the same message over and over, and it's "SORE LOSER".
lsbets
06-04-2005, 09:00 AM
Who you refering to? What Some people? The FBI? They're raising the concerns. Interested Americans just pay attention.
Your in the Republican Party right? The party believes that each individual Americn has the power to control his own fate? Except when it comes to filtering informatiom? Then we're to stupid and need help from the Goverment.
No Suff, I am not in any political party, don't care to be. My point is that some people believe any accusation made by the terrorists and apply any wrongdoing to all of those who put their asses on the line to keep the people back home who like to shoot their big mouths off fat and happy. It pisses me off. When a few people do things they shouldn't, their actions get applied to everyone as if everyone did it - and guess who does that Suff? Your buddies in the Dem party. They set a precedent for that during Vietnam, and the left wing of the party hasn't moved away from that. You wonder why I question some people's loyalty? They can say they support the troops all day long, but their actions say otherwise. "I support the troops unless some terrorists say there is rampant abuse of prisoners going on, then I will believe and repeat the charges over and over again without any kind of investigation, because the word of a terrorist is all I need to indict the whole U.S. military."
You get my point Suff - when someone accuses one of your family members of some horrible crime, you would probably want to see proof of what they did before you find them guilty in your mind. Well, it seems that with a lot of people on the left wing of the Dem Party their thought is "I knew those bastards were no good, this proves it."
So someome pisses on a koran or flushes it down the toilet. So the hell what????
The koran is fair game. Freedom of religion....I can flush any holy book down the toilet I want. I can pee on whatever religion I want. Freedom of religion and choice.
Get over it.
If it infuriates them, go for it. I would bulid a bond fire of korans and put it out with Bud Light.
Freedom.
If it infuriates them, go for it. I would bulid a bond fire of korans and put it out with Bud Light.
Freedom.
Why do I know this Bud Light will be filtered prior to putting out the fire ? :D
Lefty
06-04-2005, 08:08 PM
Elk, if you think these guys are sore losers get a load of this news...
I just read that John Kerry now wants to impeach Bush. Says he has some cockamamie evidence that Bush lied about WMD's. To refresh the libs memory(they seem to have none when it comes to their own)John Kerry once said that if you didn't blve Saddam had weapons of mass destruction then don't bother voting for him(Kerry not Saddam)Lbj i'm paraphrasing again so don't get your kickers in a twist.
46zilzal
06-04-2005, 08:45 PM
l You guys better wake up and back this admin or you will be kissing terrorist ass literally.
Hogwash without an "enemy out there" the rutabaga can't sell his line of crap
Lefty
06-04-2005, 08:57 PM
46, Hey, the enemy is out there and they'd just as soon cut you friggin head of as his; so wake up and side with this country. Guess that's too much to ask.
Libs got their own agenda and it's hatred and socialism. Guess you like Canada's brand of socialism 46, but i want none of it. Without Bush you might be a muslim or dead. Figure it out. And you're not even a citizen of this country so quit being so disrespectful to a great Pres.
BTW,
[QUOTE]ONE guy pisses on ONE copy of the koran, and you're worried about payback? Do you really hate yourself and your country this much, or are you just stinking drunk and trying to exorcise a bad week?
I'm not concerned with The Koran getting Pissed on. If I was gaurding the enemy, and he acted up, I'd piss in his face. I'm objecting to the whole operation. We just agreed last week that the War on Terror lose's it seriousness with one HONEST look at the Mexican Border.
3 years into this we have this? Urine & Bibles? Its Clarence Thomas Revisted. Seriously, anyone can drive a Truck of Dynamite into the Lincoln tunnel tommorrow. No scenario your suggesting is good for you, or me. Because if your right that its Enemy Propaganda.....thats not where we thought we would be three years ago.
Or even worse, if you think People like me are to stupid , unpatrioric, or drunk to process information. I know what your saying. F'k the Koran,
.My point is that , the SHIP is off course, we are in the middle of ocean!
There is No Land in site... They'll never be a War on teror until we Secure our own borders. We're stuck on stupid.
he past 25 yrs Americans have died at the whim of the nutcases and/ or blind followers of Islam. How many times have we seen them blow our people to bits and pieces? Kill someone in a wheel chair and throw them overboard to their deaths simply b/c he was an American? How many times have we seen them burn our flag? Gimme an answer
Yer right...again. if 1/100th of them are Dangerous. That's a Million People.
We building cells for a Million People? Attempting to build Demcracies in Two Muslim Countries may take two decades to achieve. We're on the wrong road altogether.
Those incidents happened ling before some guy took a leak on a koran. Big f'n deal. Grow up and stop looking like an ass, already.
Ljb, Suff, Sec, Zilch, little girl, etc....Your posts have the same message over and over, and it's "SORE LOSER".[/
It very little politics for me. Just sizing up the situation
Elk, if you think these guys are sore losers get a load of this news...
I just read that John Kerry now wants to impeach Bush. Says he has some cockamamie evidence that Bush lied about WMD's. To refresh the libs memory(they seem to have none when it comes to their own)John Kerry once said that if you didn't blve Saddam had weapons of mass destruction then don't bother voting for him(Kerry not Saddam)Lbj i'm paraphrasing again so don't get your kickers in a twist.
Where did you read that? Probably on limburgs blog. I told you lefty Limburg is for entertainment purposes only, you must take his bs with large doses of salt.
Kabong,
I am not a sore loser, I know you and the rest on this board are suffering with the rest of us. If anything I feel a slight saddness for those who were duped into voting for the neocons and now are too ashamed to admit their error. Don't worry kabong, I forgive you, hang in there congress is finally showing some chutzpa and things will get better.
46zilzal
06-04-2005, 11:10 PM
Libs got their own agenda and it's hatred and socialism. Guess you like Canada's brand of socialism 46, but i want none of it. Without Bush you might be a muslim or dead. Figure it out. And you're not even a citizen of this country so quit being so disrespectful to a great Pres.
BTW,
The rutabaga, you and I have the same passport. Bush is as irrelevent to me as the weather in Tasmania...strange MOST folks put him somewhere below the dogcatcher of Madison Wisconsin, also I have NO political affiliation...Ah the old Banana Republican line of hate...I don't hate anyone. It is too emotionally expensive
46zilzal
06-04-2005, 11:34 PM
.My point is that , the SHIP is off course, we are in the middle of ocean!
There is No Land in site... They'll never be a War on teror until we Secure our own borders. We're stuck on stupid.
Well stated. Many of my friends and I discussed (PRIOR TO THE YEAR 2000) that the ultimate function of the Armed forces would soon be just encircling the borders keeping people out. of course that's what happens with WORLD over-population
ElKabong
06-05-2005, 02:44 AM
Kabong,
I am not a sore loser, I know you and the rest on this board are suffering with the rest of us. .
Suffering for what? That we finally have a president who will take the fight to the enemy on their turf for a change? No more sit and wait to get hit time after time after time. I always wondered what would have happened if Clinton did in 1993 what GWB did, post 9-11 (get off our ass and fight). We'd be 8 yrs ahead of where we are now, which would be a damn good thing.
But no, the Slick One had other priorities in mind. Opportunity lost, not to mention the World Trade Center Towers and a chunk of the Pentagon.
And yes ljb, you are a Sore Loser.
Suffering for what? That we finally have a president who will take the fight to the enemy on their turf for a change? No more sit and wait to get hit time after time after time. I always wondered what would have happened if Clinton did in 1993 what GWB did, post 9-11 (get off our ass and fight). We'd be 8 yrs ahead of where we are now, which would be a damn good thing.
But no, the Slick One had other priorities in mind. Opportunity lost, not to mention the World Trade Center Towers and a chunk of the Pentagon.
And yes ljb, you are a Sore Loser.
Suffering with the daily loss of young Americans. Lost forever because someone had a personal agenda to wipe out Saddam. Suffering from the knowledge that our children and grandchildren will be burdened with the largest government deficit in history. Suffering from the influx of illegal immigrants that the administration accepts. Suffering from the lack of funding for our schools, firefighters and police forces. Suffering with the declining living standards of the average American while the billionaires count there tax cut money with glee.
And yes kabong, I feel your pain.
46, Hey, the enemy is out there and they'd just as soon cut you friggin head of as his; so wake up and side with this country. Guess that's too much to ask.
Libs got their own agenda and it's hatred and socialism. Guess you like Canada's brand of socialism 46, but i want none of it. Without Bush you might be a muslim or dead. Figure it out. And you're not even a citizen of this country so quit being so disrespectful to a great Pres.
BTW,
Gee, if that is true, maybe we should remove the welcome mat from the Mexican border!
Lefty, Bush will not deter determined terrorists - if they want to get in here, it is extremely SIMPLE. I fear they are already here and the next 9-11 is already being prepped. And there is no way we are going stop it. Your faith in Bush is dangerous. We need to get our act together and re-start the real war on terror.
Gee, if that is true, maybe we should remove the welcome mat from the Mexican border!
Lefty, Bush will not deter determined terrorists - if they want to get in here, it is extremely SIMPLE. I fear they are already here and the next 9-11 is already being prepped. And there is no way we are going stop it. Your faith in Bush is dangerous. We need to get our act together and re-start the real war on terror.
If anything I'm getting less political around the war. Unrest in Afghanistan, I see a lot of people dying in Iraq. I'm looking at this whole thing fundementally. I'm trying to be clear.. I am disappointed that we are , where we are. We're in deep. Many Guys are on thier 2nd or 3rd,and in some cases, starting thier 4th tour. It's still extremely violent, Drug Lords & riots in Afghanistan, Civil War in Iraq. I'm questioning the whole operation.
Denying Detainees some sort of Status, that is in line with our constitution, or at the very least Geneva conventions creates more problems than it solves.
The war is on its 4th year. They floated a 2009 trial ballon this week? Are we going to lock people up for 15 years? 20? Life! Without access to an international or domestic court? Even a Military Tribunal. Designating them "enemy combatants" creates opportrunity for the enemy to paint us incorrectly. I agree the Miliatry needs time to sort out who is who in a war like this. At the same time, we need to beleive in our systems, that they work in any environment. Due process is a cornerstone of our Republic. We beleive it applys to all men. Guilty or Innocent. I'm for setting some sort of TIME limit on that desigantion. Two years maximum.
The elections in Europe were impressive. They mailed the European Constitution to every single person the country. 82% read it or discussed it with friends and Family. Turn out was near 80%. Democracy is strong in the world. I'm asking America to consider leading by example. If we beleive we are right... Bring it out in the light for the whole world to see. I can appreciatte Saddam Hussien getting an open trial....but we have a long way to go to live up to our own principles. imho
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