Last Preakness?

[Tom]

Talk today is this was the last Preakness. Going to move it to GP or Calif. D Wayne quoted as saying the "new TC" will be Derby, Belmont, Travers.
Has he heard something, or is he just mad a losing another one at ole Hilltop?:D

Reminds me of Tonya Harding's philosophy..."If you can't beat em, beat em!":eek:

Just can't see tampering with the TC....it could never be compared to the real TC and would be be a terrible idea.

[KingChas]

Tom, The triple crown races will still be the same(dates and sequence) just at another of Stronachs tracks for leg 2.As far as the name "Preakness".Think I read were the rights to that name would have to be sold seperately.Like a liquor license deal I suppose.So we would have.

1st leg......Kentucky Derby (Churchill)
2nd leg ....Stronach Stakes (Gulfstream or SA)
3rd leg......Belmont Stakes (Belmont)

Thought you would appreciate new name of 2nd leg of TC. :faint:
Then again maybe your right-Double Crown winner :lol:

[46zilzal]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-md.olesker20may20,1,6961880.column?coll=bal-local-headlines&ctrack=1&cset=true

[Suff]

Tom, The triple crown races will still be the same(dates and sequence)


They're talking about K. Derby, Belmont & Travers Triple Crown.

http://www.nypost.com/sports/46986.htm

[BillW]

They're talking about K. Derby, Belmont & Travers Triple Crown.

http://www.nypost.com/sports/46986.htm

Guys, this is probably a follow up to Charlsie Cantey's pushing for the slots. Stronach is bringing out all the artillary. Now a threat that Md loses the Preakness if he doesn't "cooperate" and give him his casino.

[KingChas]

Thanks Suff, my 1st read on Post Article.

4 months for the TC to be completed-75% of the horses will be retired to stud before the Travers! :D

[Tom]

A Derby-Belmont-Travers will not be a classic series and won't ever prove a thing. The whole idea of the TC is the short time span and the distance profression. The 1.5 miles in the middle would be.....ridiculous. But I am sure NYRA would love to have 2 legs.


But is sure nice to hear ole Franky admitting to the world that HE cannot do anything to improve his race track without welfare - without leeching off of slot money. Without slots, FS is BS. Look at SA, Pim....Franky is no track wizzard, anyone could make a go of it withi slot welfare...look at Mnr, FL, Del.

[Lasix1]

But is sure nice to hear ole Franky admitting to the world that HE cannot do anything to improve his race track without welfare - without leeching off of slot money. Without slots, FS is BS. Look at SA, Pim....Franky is no track wizzard, anyone could make a go of it withi slot welfare...look at Mnr, FL, Del.
The slot issue masks the real problems in racing. The question to me, Tom, is whether anyone can make a go of it without slots?

[Zaf]

Twenty years ago the race track was the only place to gamble. Now there are casinos, lotteries, high stakes bingo , online gambling (texas holdem) etc. It is different now, the competition for gambling dollars is furious. Slots may be a necessary evil for the racing game.

ZAFONIC

[Lasix1]

Twenty years ago the race track was the only place to gamble. Now there are casinos, lotteries, high stakes bingo , online gambling (texas holdem) etc. It is different now, the competition for gambling dollars is furious. Slots may be a necessary evil for the racing game.ZAFONIC
That's what I'm thinking. I'll be interested to know if anyone has a better solution.

[hurrikane]

I think the ole boy is just playing the old 'Preakness' card.

He wouldn't put that money into LRL if he wasn't planning on staying. And I don't think anyone in racing is going to buy into this other TC.

NY doesn't have slots, is anyone crying up there?

[the Bid]

If the TC was Derby/Belmont/Travers the Belmont distance would drop back to 10f. Hey they dropped the JCGC to suit the Breeders' Cup... :faint:

[46zilzal]

Shortening THAT classic would be akin to having EVERY baseball park bringing in their fences 40 feet. EVERY subsequest home run record would be CHEAPENED. HOW are the breeder's EVER going to KNOW if there are potential dirt stamina sires if they NEVER get a chance to prove it at graded stakes level? It is the ONLY dirt race of it's type left

The ONLY stamia sources anymore are all in the lawn.

[kenwoodallpromos]

I think in the long run, the only solution is to run horseracing more like a major sport than a casino. I hear tbreds used to have a long season and was not all year at all circuits.
I still say people want more sounds and more action than racing is set up to supply. Football, bball, auto racing, and hockey never has to worry about filling seat at any level; slower sports do. Baseball, golf, and I believe track and field sometimes have smaller live audiences.
I know the losts and bingo halls are always full because there is something to do every few seconds.
I think horse racing is the only gambing where you have to get up and move every time you want to bet.

[TOOZ]

They hung Brennan out to dry when he lured Spend a Buck to Garden State for the Jersey Derby over the Preakness and screwing around with tradiition. Now it's fine because the same person owns the tracks of the move? I say whoever gets the rights to the Preakness gets the race, if Frankie doesn't want it, don't pay for it, start some other race at the same time, a.k.a Brennan, and try to buck tradition. I for one would love to see Monmouth get the race, investing 17 mil into the place for the Breeder's cup in 07, maybe for other reasons also?

[Lasix1]

I still say people want more sounds and more action than racing is set up to supply. I know the slots and bingo halls are always full because there is something to do every few seconds.
I think horse racing is the only gambing where you have to get up and move every time you want to bet.
I come home from the track exhausted from the constant action. But the 'action' is in the form of mental activity: handicapping, tote watching, and betting strategy.

Unfortunately, there seems to be less-and-less of those types who love racing because of its intellectual stimulation, and more-and-more of those who want the kind of mindless Skinner-Box stimulation of the sort provided by slots.

It may say more about society than it says about racing. :(

[kenwoodallpromos]

Yes you are right; but they are trying (even at the Preakness trophy presentation) to draw in slots players and blame other tracks for less horses and betting.
My wife would attend the races if she could bet 5 or 10 cents every minute on bets at various tracks from a gambling machine she could sit at. my sis-in-law's boyfriend plays fantasy GOLF!LOL!- but there is no fantasy racing using trainers' stables.
Overall, team sports have always drawn more fans than indiviual sports.
The new combo bets are a nice try though.
At Evangeline Downs there is no racing for a month because they have to fix the track base- but it is still open for slots, and that may be the only way to save the season.

[OTM Al]

The Triple Crown has only been the Triple Crown for 70 years or so. Sir Barton is credited with being the first TC winner in 1919, but the name wasn't coined for about 20 more years, so he was a winner retroactively. Man O' War never ran in the Derby (and despite being bred there never ran a race in KY) because his owner didn't think it was worth sending him there. I think it was a newspaper guy that gave those particular 3 races that title. The distances have changed over the years and so too have the locations as has the time between (I think it was 1 week between the Derby and Preakness at one point). Pimlico claimed they just ran the 130th Preakness, but in fact not all of those races have been run in Maryland. The race actually resided in New York for a number of years before returning to Maryland and in fact one of the winners from that period was a 5 year old, as the race was contested for 3 and up. So really the TC as it is today is a fairly modern invention.

And if you think of it, is a TC winner really the best 3yo horse? Well, he's most likely the best 3yo dirt router, which has been made to be the glamour type event, but wouldn't it be more fun to have a series that had a sprint, a route and a turf race? You win all three of those, you not only beat the best of your generation, but you showed versitility. That's kinda why I like the Canadian setup with having the second leg on turf.

So does the current setup need a change? I certainly don't believe that the distances should be shortened. The races should be at the so called classic distance IMO. But it is clear that Pimlico is in trouble. Its in a terrible neighborhood and these days its cards are generally unbetable because field sizes are too small in most races. Its a shame there were so many scratches due to weather on the Friday card as that card was every bit as good as saturday's going in, but the rest of the year I won't even take a second look at the PPs unless a horse I really like is running, like that wonderful little plugger Silmaril, who is Maryland based.

So perhaps the Preakness might need to be moved. Laurel would actually be my main candidate as they have poured a lot of money into making that track a lot nicer. Florida is just nasty hot too often in late May and SA may be too much of a ship.

I think what would be best for the series though would be to have a real series for 3yos and for 4 and ups each year culminating in the BC where they come together. Start the 3yo series with the TC and continue on with races like the Haskell and Travers, maybe with another race thrown in there before the BC. For 4 and ups, start with races like the Donn, the SA Handicap and the Pimlico Special, the Stephen Foster and so on leading up to the BC. Imagine bonuses for horses that can start in all and have the best overall record and super bonus if a horse could actually win them all. Maybe its all a pipe dream with the fractured governance for racing, but at least it would make a coherant championship series like they have in auto racing, with 3yos being like the Busch Series and 4 and ups like the Nextel or whatever they call it these days.

Enough rambling. Just my thoughts on the matter

[takeout]

Good luck to Magna & DeFrancis trying to bluff with that “last Preakness” crap. If they were in as gawd awful shape as they claim, Pim would’ve already been history and Lrl would’ve been a housing development by now. First DeFrancis hoodwinked Magna (that’s putting it mildly) and now it appears that they may have both hoodwinked themselves. I think there is supposed to be another “emergency” slot meeting today. :rolleyes:

There’s no way these guys can lose even if they have to sell off the tracks to developers. The only difference slots make to them is being filthy stinking rich as opposed to just filthy rich. It’s everyone else that takes the hit.

It cracks me up to hear track owners crying poor mouth. What happens when things get a little tight? Do they ever take a cut in salary and lead by example? Hell no. They cut out jobs like those of security guards and such. I hope Magna & DeFrancis get exactly what they deserve in MD.

[takeout]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/horseracing/bal-md.olesker24may24,1,5331778.column?page=1&coll=bal-sports-horse

[snip]
It's a remarkable thing, the way a place rouges itself up for a day when company calls and then reverts to form. On Park Heights Avenue yesterday, half a block below the track, you had the usual crowd milling outside the strip of stores that includes Coast to Coast Bail Bonds, a check-cashing operation, a pawnbroker and the local keno outlet for those who cannot wait for slots to arrive as their personal choice of sound financial planning.
[snip]

[takeout]

Nothing new at the meeting yesterday in MD.

Busch: Md. must look away from slots
Speaker meets with Magna, says special session unlikely; Track owner seeks O'Malley's help
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/horseracing/bal-te.md.slots26may26,1,1462767.story?page=1&coll=bal-sports-horse

[snip]
Mills refused to answer questions about whether Magna is considering moving the Preakness, replying that his company doesn't believe in making threats and instead prefers to forge consensus.

Busch said company officials did not make any threats in their private meeting, which lasted 90 minutes.
[snip]

Okay… So Magna didn’t make any threats and the meeting didn’t get anything done, as usual. So what now?

[DerbyTrail]

I think it was a newspaper guy that gave those particular 3 races that title.

'Triple Crown' was coined by DRF's Charles Hatton, the greatest Turf Writer in history.. He used it in 1930 describing Gallant Fox and his sweep of the spring classics.

Among Hatton's most famous work is his Secretariat homage that you see often and is rarely credited properly to him:


Weave for the mighty chestnut a tributary crown,
Of autumn flowers, the brightest then.. When autumn leaves are brown.

Hang up his bridle on the wall, his saddle on the tree,
Till time shall bring some racing king worthy to wear as he.

[EQUIPACE]

And if you think of it, is a TC winner really the best 3yo horse? Well, he's most likely the best 3yo dirt router, which has been made to be the glamour type event, but wouldn't it be more fun to have a series that had a sprint, a route and a turf race?

Yes, the idea is to see who is the best dirt router... and Yes, it would be fun... But then they would have to change the name to the TRIPLE CLOWN! :lol:

John
~¿o

[cryptic1]

The Canadian triple crown includes 1 and 1/2 miles on the turf in the
3rd leg. Generally, the 3rd leg has many turf specialists in it and few of the
entrants from the first two legs of the series. Since most horses are better
on one surface than the other, having different surfaces in the series really
only proves versatility not 'the best' horse of the generation.

cryptic1