You gotta love Beyer

[cj]

Opening lines from his latest article:

Throw out Giacomo.

That's the easy part of handicapping the Preakness.



Here is the rest:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/19/AR2005051901560.html?sub=AR

[46zilzal]

Opening lines from his latest article to let one's ego erode ones' intellect like that, NO MATTER the result

[kenwoodallpromos]

He's getting smarter- he threw out 18 in the Derby prior to his capping the race! :D

[KingChas]

Good Luck Andy!

[PaceAdvantage]

Thanks for posting the link CJ. I think Beyer is mistaken....Giacomo is not an automatic throwout. I've got 7 or 8 other horses I'd throw out before Giacomo.

But then again, that's why they race them every afternoon.

[Tuffmug]

Andy, your persuasive verbage has convinced me TO BET THE FARM ON GIACOMO! Your stamp of disapproval is good enough for me.

By the way, anybody know where THE FARM button is hidden in the Pinnicle betting screen. I can't seem to find it anywhere!:D

[Valuist]

I hope everyone in the betting public is as down on Beyer as people on this forum, and Closing Argument and Greeley's Galaxy get overlooked.

[Tom]

But you do have to love the guy.

If he were a more quiet, level headed guy, he probably never would have made the impact on racing that he has. You don't hit home runs without swinging. they count the runs, not the strikes. I love Andy when he gets focused on something....it's like seeing an "Andy Beyer" shaped hole in the was as he takes off!:D

[kenwoodallpromos]

So he is now picking based on trip handicapping-- At least he is smart enough to pick CA- plus all 10 longshots!
Sounds like he likes everbody except Giacomo and Afleet Alex! Of all the Preakness runners, didn't G get the top Beyer number of the Derby, and AA the top prep Beyer of all runners for leg 2? :faint:

[KingChas]

Can't wait for Andy's Preakness post race follow up.Suspense is killing me.

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't understand...what's the point of bashing Andy Beyer? Nobody is correct 100% of the time.....hell, if you're losing ONLY 70% of the time, you're probably doing OK.

So ease up on the AB bashing. It's practically 100% non-productive.

[KingChas]

Thanks for posting the link CJ. I think Beyer is mistaken....Giacomo is not an automatic throwout. I've got 7 or 8 other horses I'd throw out before Giacomo.

But then again, that's why they race them every afternoon.

:confused: :confused: :confused: Bashing or opinions PA? Is Andy bashing Giacomo or is it his opinion?

[KingChas]

The Only Safe Bet Is One Without Giacomo

By Andrew Beyer

Friday, May 20, 2005; Page D01

Throw out Giacomo.

That's the easy part of handicapping the Preakness

:confused: :confused: :confused:

[PaceAdvantage]

:confused: :confused: :confused: Bashing or opinions PA? Is Andy bashing Giacomo or is it his opinion?

Bottom line, AB bashing makes for a boring thread. It's been done already on about 2 or 3 other threads around here lately.

Enough.

[KingChas]

No problem,I know you have been pushed on this by a very self-opinionated member on this board that is never wrong?No names?The threads I post are contoversial but I seem to have a lot of members that agree with them.Let's get this subject over and be men about it.Are there any other untouchable topics or(people) on this forum you don't want me to express my opinion on?I will abide by your rules it is your forum-respectfully-KC

Also my profile is clear if anyone has a problem with me ignore or PM me I will respond.I can dish it out and take it too-old school.

[chrisg]

yeah yeah yeah, I know you want this closed and haven't even read all the threads about Beyer, but I want to say this-

His books did offer some help to handicappers, but at the same time his arrogance is unfreakenbelievable. And he is one of the leading culprits of perpetuating handicapping myths which continuously mislead the public.

If he was a quality handicapper, he would evolve. He doesn't; he's stagnant. Randy Moss on the other hand, he may make/use Beyer #'s, but @ least he appears to be open-minded...a lot to be said for that.

Go easy on me; I'm edgy..about 650 miles on the road today...great day; just opinionated.
:jump:
:sleeping:

[PaceAdvantage]

No problem,I know you have been pushed on this by a very self-opinionated member on this board that is never wrong?No names?

The posts by me in this thread are ENTIRELY my own doing. I wasn't pushed by anyone else. And believe me, whoever you are referring to in the sentence above doesn't need me to defend them. I'm looking out for the health of the board here...."the needs of the MANY outweigh the needs of the FEW"

Just because I haven't voiced anything until now, doesn't mean I haven't been noticing a lot that has been going wrong around here lately. I usually don't let this kind of stuff fester. I'm fairly pro-active when it comes to this board and 'problems.' Although lately, I believe I have been procrastinating a bit too much.

Being opinionated is great....looking for a fight isn't....

[cj]

So he is now picking based on trip handicapping-- At least he is smart enough to pick CA- plus all 10 longshots!
Sounds like he likes everbody except Giacomo and Afleet Alex! Of all the Preakness runners, didn't G get the top Beyer number of the Derby, and AA the top prep Beyer of all runners for leg 2? :faint:

I thought you'd read all his books. His second book was all about trip handicapping and how it related to speed figures.

[Tuffmug]

Dear PA,

This thread results from a spewing of new swill from Andy Beyer in his most recent column. It is not a continuation of commenting upon his old swill! I think we are doing a public service by mocking Mr. Beyer for presenting drivel and rantings to the general public and calling it handicapping.

His past may be lauded. What he does now deserves mockery.

[joeyspicks]

I just LOVE it! ALL the EXPERTS were wrong, wrong, wrong, (again!)

and they are just foaming at the mouth:mad: I hope Giacomo runs well and finishes well just for that reason.:ThmbUp: They all wanted to crown the "next" BIG RED......before the race was run. A little "balance" Andy....just a little.

Heres one sentimental vote for Giacomo! (not betting the race....shoulda stayed away from the derby too!). IF I actually played?....

High Limit
Galloping Grocer

Good luck to you all today!

[chickenhead]

I think we are doing a public service by mocking Mr. Beyer for presenting drivel and rantings to the general public and calling it handicapping.

Seriously, did you read the article?

"(Giacomo) encountered favorable conditions in the Derby that helped him score his shocking upset. An extraordinarily fast pace took a toll on all of the horses near the lead; the established stretch-runners in the field didn't fire their best shots, or didn't fire at all; with the leaders fading, jockey Mike Smith brought the 50-1 shot from 18th place to win."

Clearly you don't agree with this analysis of why Giacomo won, or why he thinks Giacomo is not a strong repeat contender, but honestly, you call the above a rant? Looks like handicapping to me, looks obvious to me, but that's just me. But a rant? Drivel? C'mon...

which part do you disagree with exactly? You don't beleive the pace was too fast? You think the other stretch runners did run big?

I could be wrong about this race, so could you, Beyer, whoever, but his article reads like an honest opinion to me, an informed honest opinion which is all you can ask for, I don't see the sour grapes you guys are seeing.

If it's just overconfidence that bothers you about him, strong declarations and all that, ok I can buy that, then it's just a matter of taste.

(A rant is positioned directly above this post, btw, that is what one looks like ;) )

[keilan]

Damnit Chic is you a professionalll writer or just a player wit a brain -- huh :lol:

[Tom]

Uh oh....this thread is taking an ugly turn......towards *gasp* FACTS! :eek:

[kenwoodallpromos]

Yes I read his book on trips. His using ideas from it makes this fun!

[JustRalph]

I think Andy has it just about nailed. But I also beleive that this crop is pretty damn unpredictable. I wish Bellamy road was in...........

[46zilzal]

:confused: :confused: :confused: Bashing or opinions PA? Is Andy bashing Giacomo or is it his opinion?

Watch OUT dont' say anything here that the OLD GUARD might not agree with, even if you back it up with just OPINION or you will get a hail or nasty labels thrown at you and your innate intelligence questioned. Silly isn't it?

[Bathless]

Is Andrew Beyer finished?
Just imagine where we'd be without the Beyer speed figures; you'd have only yourself to blame.

Read the entire Cronley article at:
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/news/story?id=2063492

[46zilzal]

Just imagine where we'd be without the Beyer speed figures; you'd have only yourself to blame.
Yes they were a good step on the road to understanding but ... a bit outmoted.

[Tom]

Watch OUT dont' say anything here that the OLD GUARD might not agree with, even if you back it up with just OPINION or you will get a hail or nasty labels thrown at you and your innate intelligence questioned. Silly isn't it?


Not when you bait for it.. like this post......:bang:

[KingChas]

Watch OUT dont' say anything here that the OLD GUARD might not agree with, even if you back it up with just OPINION or you will get a hail or nasty labels thrown at you and your innate intelligence questioned. Silly isn't it?

Agree 100%, very cliquey here.PA responds to Cj's (PAs words)= another boring Beyer thread.Agrees he disagrees with AB,then tells other repliers he's had enough AB bashing?Without admonishing the thread starter CJ.Leading to my untouchable (people and topic response.)

As for the lurking,provoking Old Guard-very hateful,loses debate crys to PA wants people thrown off forum.Responds with one sentence never wrong.Looks to see when people joined PA then ASSumes thats when they started handicapping-DUH!
If he PM's me I'll give him DR. K's phone#.Fix All-lol

46Z & TOM bought u2 a Giaco-Mojo today. Good Luck Buddys-KCl

[PaceAdvantage]

You're free to find another board if you don't like this one, or you can start your own....

[KingChas]

You're free to find another board if you don't like this one, or you can start your own....

Kinda remind me of my Dad's response ages ;) ago."But why Dad? Because I said so thats why!

[46zilzal]

Being a moderator is not easy. However when one reads the RULES for conduct on the board: no bad language, no overt sexual content, no personal attacks, etc. it seems that they are NOT universally applied and I believe that some people notice that .

[keilan]

Looks to me, some boys have forgotten their manners. Your Daddy should have had you boys behind the woodshed a li'l more often. It's not considered good conduct to enter another mans domain and be disrespectful.

[PaceAdvantage]

Being a moderator is not easy. However when one reads the RULES for conduct on the board: no bad language, no overt sexual content, no personal attacks, etc. it seems that they are NOT universally applied and I believe that some people notice that .

The language thing is enforced UNIVERSALLY. I've scolded lots of folks for language above the NYPD-Blue standard that I use...

Overt sexual content is immediately taken down. If I miss anything, please point it out to me. I am only one man.

No personal attacks -- I'd love to be able to stomp them out, wherever they may arise. Again, please alert me to any personal attacks I may have missed. Generally, the person who initiates the attacks is the one who will bear the brunt of my wrath. Sometimes, a personal attack can be very subtle....there are some MASTER baiters residing on this message board, and not everything is easy to sort out.....

46, are you applying for the job of co-moderator? It sounds as if you thought about this for a while, seeing as you see fit to pass judgement on my lack of moderating skills -- the whole "NOT universally applied" line was quite touching.

[Tom]

I guess if any of the posts on THIS thread count as 'bashing Beyer" I gotta look up bashing, cause it don't mean what I think it means. I thought it was rather typical conversation amoung horseplayers, without the F word that is so liberally used on track:D

If that's all you got, you guys can feel free to bash me anyday;)
After EqVetUs, this is nothing!:rolleyes:

[46zilzal]

46, are you applying for the job of co-moderator? It sounds as if you thought about this for a while, seeing as you see fit to pass judgement on my lack of moderating skills -- the whole "NOT universally applied" line was quite touching.

maybe so I am moderator of another board and nearing retirement looking for another challenge

[Tom]

Heh,heh,heh, ya gotta love 46 too! ;)

[PaceAdvantage]

maybe so I am moderator of another board and nearing retirement looking for another challenge

You must be a glutton for punishment! One board is enough!! LOL

[KingChas]

Without creating an uproar here.Why is the heading to the AB Washington Post article different to his heading on the DRF article?Check out CJ's origional link then check this one out.http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=65147&subs=0&arc=0

[cj]

Writer's write the articles, not the headlines. I think that is up to the Editor, perhaps andicap can shed some light.

[KingChas]

Writer's write the articles, not the headlines. I think that is up to the Editor, perhaps andicap can shed some light.

Yes would like an insiders view.I just noticed this today.Never saw that before they usually run Andys Wash Post article exact at the DRF.Strange?
I would surmise the WP article was AB's true heading with that paper being less horseracing people above AB.What do you think?

[cj]

The headlines are often different between WP and DRF, why I don't know.

[Observer]

Yes .. the writers write .. the copy editors come up with the headlines .. the sub-heads (smaller headlines under the main headlines) .. the cutlines (for photos) .. etc. Layout personnel design the layout of each individual page .. plug in photos .. etc.

So the same article appears in different places .. different headlines were attached because of different staff working the story.

Also .. space dictates the length of a headline .. so even if you were to pick up 2 different editions of the same paper (ex: an early edition vs. a late edition) .. if the page needed to be designed differently for the 2 different editions (say 2-columns wide vs. 5-columns wide) .. it will force the headline to be different .. eventhough it's the same story in the same paper.