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tanda
05-02-2002, 04:04 PM
I have lost all respect for Steve Crist. For the second time this week, his Derby diary contains gross errors.

Today's entry criticizes the Churchill Downs Derby morning line because it adds of to 117+%. He believes it should add up to 105.5%. He writes that the morning line indicates that the take would have to be raised to 25% for it to be accurate.

With a 0.84 payout (16% take), the morning line should add up to 119% (1.00/0.84). With breakage included, maybe 122%. So, Mike Battaglia's line is close to that figure. It should be higher than 117%, but Crist argues it should add up to a lower total. Crist asserts that it should add up to 100%. However, we all know (or I thought we did) that the morning line is not a true probability line but an estimate of the final odds based on anticipated public action and adjusted for take and breakage. Thus, most morning lines add up to 121-125%. Crist does not realize this. He seems to think that morning lines should add up to 100%.

Next, he says that a line should add 5-6% because a 12:1 horse will pay anywhere from 12:1 - 12.90:1. He suggests adding points to compensate for this. A 12:1 horse may also go off at 1:5. So do we "compensate" for this as well? When a horse is made 12:1, the linesmaker is estimating that he will go at 12.00:1. Yes, he may go 12.90:1, but the error could go the other way (11.10:1). A true oddsline must always equal 100%. There cannot be a 105.5% true oddsline unless there are 1.055 winners of each race. A morning line designed to predict off odds must add up to 120-125%. In no case should the line equal 106%.

Earlier this week, he mentioned that 4 horse may get 10% of the action even though they each have a 1.5% chance of winning. He then says that thie is akin to having a 10% bonus on winning wagers. He seemed to consider the 10% action on those horses dead money. What the hell is he thinking?

If the horse have a combined 6% of winning, then only 4% of the money is dead. The horse should have 6% bet on them. He treats the entire 10% as if it is incorrectly bet.

Next, 10% dead money does not create a 10% bonus. Assume a 10 horse field with each horse having a 10% chance to win and 10% bet on each. With Churchill take and breakage, each horse would pay 7.40:1. Now, let's imagine that one horse actually has a 0% chance to win. The others each have an 11.1% chance. With proper betting action (11.1% bet on the nine and 0% on the other), the 9 should each pay 6.50:1. If the public bets 10% on each (10% dead money on the horse with no chance), then each horse will again pay 7.40:1. 7.40/6.50 is 13.8%. The bonus is not 10%, but 13.8%.

I guess Mr. Pick Six does not understand the basic mathematics of the game.

Figman
05-02-2002, 06:14 PM
Tanda,
As a "morning line man" for many years all I can say to you is 'RIGHT ON BROTHER!'

The scary thing is that many out there in turfdom think Steve Crist is gospel.....How wrong they are!!!!!!

Tom
05-02-2002, 08:02 PM
People actually read thse articles he writes????
Give me you address-I'll send you some old Mad Magazines.

Kentucky Bred
05-02-2002, 10:10 PM
Hey Tanda: Guess who I said "hello" to on the Caesar's Indiana Gambling boat near Louisville, Ky. on Tuesday night? Your buddy, Mr. Crist! He didn't seem too happy with my intrusion in his world especially with a littly chickee on his arm.

I guess tens of thousands of dollars spent on his publication over the last 25 years is just not enough to get an audience with the boss.

Man, I would have paid the barber to cut his hair...if Crist would let me. He is in a serious need of a haircut.

Maybe good old Steve doesn't have the same amount of time to write his articles like he used to.


Kentucky Bred

takeout
05-03-2002, 02:06 PM
Interesting that Crist should write about the Derby morning line. I just downloaded their Derby PPs and they don’t have one.

andicap
05-04-2002, 08:48 AM
Watchmaker posted a ML in the print edition of the DRF.

Its funny -- I know as much as those DRF handicappers, but I still like reading the Derby DRF edition. It's a lot of fun. Plus did anyone see the add for the racing game online. digiturf.com, i think? What is that?

alyingthief
05-28-2002, 04:30 AM
who is steve crist? the brother of jesus?

wes
05-28-2002, 07:51 AM
Brother of JOSE CRIST maybe, not Jesus Christ.

wes

superfecta
05-28-2002, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by wes
Brother of JOSE CRIST maybe, not Jesus Christ.

wes Yeah,but judging by his picks,he's been tacked to the wall enough to be kinfolk....

Observer
05-29-2002, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by andicap
did anyone see the add for the racing game online. digiturf.com, i think? What is that?

digiturf is an online simulated racing game .. where I believe you can actually win purse money in the form of real money .. don't know the details though.

There are a few simulated on-line racing games. There's a free game at http://simulatedsports.net/hr/

Of course, you can always go the Play Station route .. Gallop Racer and Gallop Racer 2 (for Play Station 2) are both fun games that are endless and addictive.

Figman
06-21-2002, 12:24 AM
http://www.als.edu/glc/wagering/derbymorningline.html

Another good article from this site!