Hidden surveillance cameras at the track and the IRS

[fishorsechess]

Call me paranoid whatever. But are there surveillance cameras at the
racetrack whereby the IRS can tell if you are placing a bet
and how much? I thought what you bet is your own personal
business and there is no Big Brother watching thru the sky.

[chickenhead]

Yes.

[Suff]

Call me paranoid whatever. But are there surveillance cameras at the
racetrack whereby the IRS can tell if you are placing a bet
and how much? I thought what you bet is your own personal
business and there is no Big Brother watching thru the sky.

It's vital to the War on Terror that the Govt. know if your a Box'r, key'r or wheel'r. And if your against letting the Govt know what you bet and how much, Your obviously an unamerican al queda member who supports an "al Jazeera simo feed" at all tracks. Damn you! <spit>

[kenwoodallpromos]

Cameras are everywhere- many are government. But thety are most likejy watching the clerks.
They just tax you the average of your occupation if they think you are under-reporting.

[rokitman]

Is it true that if you print out the words PaceAdvantage onto a piece of paper, throw it in a pot and boil it, an image of J. Edgar Hoover will emerge? I heard this to be true when I was in an IRS conga line. I'd try it myself but I don't even have a pot to piss in.

[BillW]

It's a good thing you guys don't live in Europe :lol::lol::lol:

[Suff]

It's a good thing you guys don't live in Europe :lol::lol::lol:


We don't cite foriegn law..or culture, when defining America.

[McSchell_Racing]

Makes you wonder!!
All you guys that have dinged the IRS bell,Do they know its YOU? How about catching guys with counterfeit money? The seem to single out a person and make a beeline for him and cuffing him. Yes Im sure they have a very good idea of what is going on.Just dont forget your dark glasses

[e_r]

Let me guess:
you probably have accounts with online betting sites
which means that they have your
name
address
SS#
phone #
bank acount #
(credit history)
AND
records of EVERY BET you make

Now, that's PARANOIA INDUCING

Of course, I'd be more worried about identity theft than the IRS under those circumstances

On the other hand, you can bet at the track in relative anonymity
(unless you hit--and choose to cash- for over $600 for a $2 dollar bet)

If still paranoid: I'd wear a disguise.

ha ha ha

[Storm Cadet]

Seems like he's like Mulder in X-Files...locked in the basement somewhere...we see Sulley all the time on TV...and Suff definitely is Skinner the FBI Head Honcho! ;)

[Suff]

FBI

In Boston, FBI stands for Full Blooded Irish!... :cool:

[shanta]

Is it true that if you print out the words PaceAdvantage onto a piece of paper, throw it in a pot and boil it, an image of J. Edgar Hoover will emerge? I heard this to be true when I was in an IRS conga line. I'd try it myself but I don't even have a pot to piss in.


:D :lol:
Richie

[Kreed]

face it, what would you rather Encounter: a UFO or a IRS letter? umm, LOL.
please NO deep sensible thinking allowed, just 1st reactions.

[karlskorner]

The cameras you don't see are in the bathroom stalls, where the guy who cashed your 5K trifecta is paying off.

[Jeff P]

The cameras you don't see are in the bathroom stalls, where the guy who cashed your 5K trifecta is paying off.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I think the current system in place for reporting track winnings is just plain wrong - or rather is a wrong - and leaves a lot to be desired.

I say this for a number of reasons.

Let's take a hypothetical example where we have a bettor that handicaps a race and hits a 30k super. Our bettor has to walk a literal minefield in order to pull this off. First, hitting a big one requires the bettor to recognize combinations having inherent value that are overlooked by almost everyone else. Non horseplayers have no clue whatsoever just how difficult this is to do. So once our bettor manages to do this, he finds himself penalized in the form of a tax for his particular genius. If he had correctly selected the order of finish in a race where the favorites had finshed 1,2,3,4 he simply gets his money and isn't penalized or taxed for doing so.

Further, if our bettor goes to the track or OTB instead of playing from home, he more likely than not has to handicap in a crowded noisy environment full of distractions- certainly not the best environment for clear and coherent decision making. Then, there's that small chance, that, despite making the correct decisions, he gets shut out or the teller punches the wrong numbers. Then, everything in the race has to fall just right. Any of his horses gets a poor start, a poor trip, a mistimed move, sits too close to too fast a pace, and the bettor's ticket goes down the tubes. There's also the stewards, who, although they do try to make what they see as the right call, have the ability to sometimes send our bettor home cursing his luck instead of heading to the window to cash.

So now that our bettor has navigated this minefield, and the race has become official, he suddenly finds himself confronted by the tax man!

And another thing. Isn't the takeout a form of tax? Not an income tax, I know, but isn't it it a tax nonetheless? So isn't our bettor being taxed twice?

Now, here's what I'd like to see instead:
Plain and simple - Winnings at the track are tax exempt. Instead of requiring the track fill out a 1099, and withholding 25 percent from a really nice ticket, I'd rather see a couple of track employees whose job description includes the following: pat our bettor on the back, shake his hand, and congratulate him for the incredible stroke of genius and the feat he just pulled off! Maybe they even take a picture of our bettor, who is all smiles, and the picture goes up on something like a wall of fame on the track grounds somewhere just to show everyone else that it really can be done. The other part of their job description is watch over our bettor and make sure nobody tries to hit him over the head on the way out through the parking lot to his car.

After all, what is the basis for the current system? I think it's rooted in a concept the IRS describes as "wherewithal to pay." What's completely not being considered at present, IMHO, is the question of what our bettor is going to do next. Chances are he's going to turn around and spend a fair chunk of his winnings in the coming weeks (maybe sooner) - and in effect - recirculate it back through our economy. If he buys his wife a new car on the way home, isn't that purchase subject to sales tax? And if he loses some of his winnings before heading home, isn't that subject to tax in the form of the takeout? Doesn't this get money into govt coffers? And doesn't this happen without input or action of the IRS?

I'll make the argument here that the system I have suggested would better benefit our society than the current system in place. Our bettor who hit that super, after having 25 pct withheld, finds himself with 22.5k in his pocket instead of 30. Taxing his immediate winnings has the effect of hitting our bettor pretty quickly and pretty hard. I'll argue that it completely changes his mindset. Instead of stopping at the car dealership on the way home, even just to have a look around, his first thought is probably just getting himself and what remains of his winnings to the bank in one piece. Under the current system in place the car dealer, the travel agent, the jewelry store owner, and the restaurant owner are being penalized right alongside our bettor.


-

[PaceAdvantage]

Call me paranoid whatever. But are there surveillance cameras at the
racetrack whereby the IRS can tell if you are placing a bet
and how much?

The only IRS camera at the track is the one hovering over the IRS cashing window. And it's there for a good reason.

There are no other IRS cameras monitoring individual betting terminals.

[JustRalph]

Try this one.......you hit that nice big super and at the end of the year you find out that the Fed taxes are taken, but now the state wants its money.....

that can be a hefty check.......to write at tax time

[hurrikane]

Fishead doesn't even bet. Why is everyone taking this bait.

There are IRS cameras at the 7-11, bank, grocery store, parking garage, subway. Every camara you see is hooked into the IRS.

Give me a break.

And why would you care...surely you don't think the IRS gives a damn about the 2 bucks you are losing.

[skate]

im thinking that most of you know this, but just in case, keep in mind that you can write off your lose for the year against your gain.

so when you show a net, you pay a tax, but if you deduct what you "show" for "lost" then you do not owe a tax.

cant carry forward, thats where they get you if your winning.

[hurrikane]

if you prove that you are trying to do it professionally you can write off

all data costs,
travel,
expenses,
seminars,
tournaments,
any other 'business' related expenses.

[fishorsechess]

ok, you are right. Now is this the end of the story?

[JackS]

I,'m with Hurricane. Deduct everything if you can prove your a Pro. This requires that you can prove the majority of your income comes from gambling. Otherwise the IRS will consider you as a Hobbiest. Should you hit a mega buck exoctic that exceeds your normal annual income, check with your accountant. you may get away with claiming yourself a Pro for a year or two at least until you've once again proved to the IRS that your back in the hobby business. g i

[fmhealth]

Skate, you're correct on the federal level. On the state level, at least in Illinois you still have to pay the full 3% state tax on your winnings.

[Kreed]

umm, be careful here, because if BETTING is your OCCUPATION, you must pay
SS taxes. As a pro, you fall outside the hobbyist & now you MUST keep books.
It's far better to have other income sources, say ... well, that's another issue,.
Just be aware of entering a different tax classification.

[Tom]

Is it true that if you print out the words PaceAdvantage onto a piece of paper, throw it in a pot and boil it, an image of J. Edgar Hoover will emerge? I heard this to be true when I was in an IRS conga line. I'd try it myself but I don't even have a pot to piss in.

Actually, it is much like a magic 8 ball - a message will appear, something like "The 4 in Belmont's opener might surprise," or "The 4/3/8 appears likely in the early pick."

[Blind Pursuit]

You guys are aware that you are supposed to tell the IRS about every penny of income, no matter the source, aren't you? You do know that every winning bet, no matter how small, is taxable? If you bet $2.00 to show on the favorite and got back $2.10, technically that's 10c of income and you're supposed to pay taxes on it. It's true!

It's not that the IRS only taxes big wins, it's just that they only bother enforcing the law when there's a good enough chunk of change involved.

My personal way of avoiding the tax man at the track is to make only losing bets, never winners. It's a little rough on the ROI but hey, no signers!

[BillW]

You guys are aware that you are supposed to tell the IRS about every penny of income, no matter the source, aren't you? You do know that every winning bet, no matter how small, is taxable? If you bet $2.00 to show on the favorite and got back $2.10, technically that's 10c of income and you're supposed to pay taxes on it. It's true!

It's not that the IRS only taxes big wins, it's just that they only bother enforcing the law when there's a good enough chunk of change involved.



You got it BP - and worse case, if they audit you and don't like your records, if the conspiracy theorists are right - you can just tell them to check the video :lol::lol:

[NoDayJob]

Hey JR,

:lol: Get your avatar guy to hospital for a stomach stapling. If not, enter him in a sumo basho. He'll become Yokozuna in a very short time, if he doesn't have a coronary first :lol:

NDJ

[stuball]

IS THAT YOU? IF IT IS WHERE DID YOU GET YOUR CHAIR?

NEED ONE LIKE THAT..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :D

STUBALL

[hurrikane]

You are correct Kreed. It is a different category and I would not advise it for most anyone up here. But then most anyone up here does not even deal with the IRS and their gambling (except fish...I"m sure he claims his 2 bucks every year).

One other thing. You do not have to derive most of your income from racing to be considered a pro. All you have to do is 'show an intent to perform the work professionally for pay.

So, you must perform activities that show you are trying to make an income.

just as you would in any business.

The funny part is...you should be doing that anyway.

[skate]

kreed, good point on the s.s. tax.


also fmheath, on the state taxes.

very good points on the deductions, by blind pursuit. but you gotta get off the "losing bet" deal.

my reason for posting "tax wright offs" was not to cover all angles, but i had (what i considered) years of shaking my head after this story.

a bartender friend from vegas tells me about a jackpot he hit. he had to notify Irs about his winnings. after i told him about being able to wright -off his tax, he still ended up paying, his choice and why should i bother. not the end of the line , but...
its that way of thinking that bugs me. he does have a right to pay whatever he likes.

[JustRalph]

IS THAT YOU? IF IT IS WHERE DID YOU GET YOUR CHAIR?

NEED ONE LIKE THAT..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :D

STUBALL

I am holding on to the chairs. Sometimes I get up and they just disappear????

I have gone through 3 already..............;)